This needs to STOP

[Anacybele]

There was another shooting of police in Baton Rouge. Three dead, and I think three more wounded. They say the gunman was actively seeking out police.

The police here in my town were threatened (as in, they actually received death threats).

And this is on top of non-police related shootings like Orlando.

Obama even says none of this was justified, but I feel he's part of the reason it's all happening. Ever since he's been in office, the country's been becoming more divided on things. Race, government, religion, whichever. And in the case of religion, terrorism is also to blame. But I hope Trump (because I predict him being elected) can make some things happen.

The mom of one of those two black men who got shot even said on live TV "stop this killing!" while in tears and she made it clear that she was talking about ALL these killings. Not just the killing of the black guys, not just the killing of the police.

This all needs to stop or the country will rip itself apart. We don't want to see that, do we? We don't want more civil wars or more death like this, do we?

Edited July 18, 2016 by Anacybele

[Tryhard]

I don't think Obama could do anything about that. People just demonize him or any Republican because they are Democrats or Republicans, and basically twist what either does or says. The country is more determined to divide itself than its leaders.

As much as I hate to say it, it's just another day in the good ol' US of A.

[Harvey]

As sad as this sounds, there's really no way to fix this issue. The only way that this can be fixed which i doubt will fix it is to fix the law behind guns and weapons in general.

But even that's not enough. People need to start believing in the wrong and fix the wrong which only some can do and others won't even think of it.

[Phoenix Wright]

it's very foolish to blame obama for the state of race relations in this nation. it honestly doesn't make any sense to do so at all. you're blaming the victims of racism for the fact that racism exists? it's not like white people loved blacks until obama got in office, and if you think so you're deluded.

this nation isn't divided on religion, and if it were, how would that be any president's fault lol. government division has only gotten worse because the republican party is desperate and dying its slow death.

these killings do need to stop, and it begins with cracking down on police agencies and educating this nation about race. we also need to take the steps needed to stop being racist.

[Anacybele]

these killings do need to stop, and it begins with cracking down on police agencies and educating this nation about race. we also need to take the steps needed to stop being racist.

I agree with this.

As for Obama, I never said racism didn't exist before Obama came into office. It did exist before then. But it got worse after he came in. Black Lives Matter wasn't a thing before this, I never heard any stories about people actively shooting police...

About religion, there's more hatred for Muslims because of the terrorism, and more hatred for LGBT+ because of things like the Orlando shooting.

People need to be educated more. Many of the black people that police shot had records and these police legitimately thought they were posing a threat to them and other things. And black on black crime is the most common kind of crime. Not white on black, not police on black, not police on white, not anything else. Right now, it feels like we're taking everything Martin Luther King Jr. said and believed in and throwing it in the trash.

And SOMETHING needs to be done to secure this country more from the terrorists.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Anacybele

[Phoenix Wright]

I agree with this.

As for Obama, I never said racism didn't exist before Obama came into office. It did exist before then. But it got worse after he came in. Black Lives Matter wasn't a thing before this, I never heard any stories about people actively shooting police...

About religion, there's more hatred for Muslims because of the terrorism, and more hatred for LGBT+ because of things like the Orlando shooting.

People need to be educated more. Many of the black people that police shot had records and these police legitimately thought they were posing a threat to them and other things. And black on black crime is the most common kind of crime. Not white on black, not police on black, not police on white, not anything else.

And SOMETHING needs to be done to secure this country more from the terrorists.

again, how is that obama's fault? you're literally blaming a black man for white people being racist and angry for a black man being in office. ever hear of the black panthers? lol angry people have congregated to fight racism before, just because "black lives matter" didn't exist doesn't mean there wasn't ever a group with their goals. also, people have indeed been actively shooting police probably since their inception.

there's hatred for muslims because people are xenophobic, not because of terrorism. terrorism is simply the petty justification people give. also, the orlando shooting is evidence of hatred, not there existing "more hatred."

yeah like castille? i don't think you're factually correct about the other stuff.

like what, ban muslims? terrorists aren't coming into this country. much of the tragic events committed here were by americans.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Phoenix Wright

[Crysta]

I'm never going to get tired of people blaming Obama for increased racial tensions while supporting someone like Trump and hoping he makes things better. It's kind of like hoping the summer will reduce the number of brush fires.

Normally I would say Obama shouldn't so readily insert his opinion in the political discourse so soon after these events, but at this point I think he's going to be blamed either way so what the hell. Might as well join the worldwide forum discussion thread.

[Lord Raven]

Racism has gotten better since Obama came into office. You know that all of this shit used to happen before his presidency right? Black Lives Matter is supposed to be a call for black people to take a stand against the fact that nobody really gave a shit about black people who were inordinately targeted by the police and other authority figures, as opposed to most other races which weren't. Yes, all lives matter, but the history seems to contradict that, because according to history the black ones did not. That's how that works.

I'm just thinking of Freddie Gray since that happened very close to my hometown, and that shit happened like clockwork before the Baltimore riots. Finally, the corrupt pigs in the city are actually getting in trouble for that. This is nothing new at all. The fact that the police are being gunned down is fucking awful, yes, but do not pretend that the police weren't randomly gunning down black people or randomly following/stalking black people... that is, as my friends can attest to you - one time I drove my friends out to Baltimore to catch a bus and all of us were fucking nervous because a cop could pull us over at a moment's notice and do what he wants for no reason other than we're black and I'm brown.

About religion, there's more hatred for Muslims because of the terrorism, and more hatred for LGBT+ because of things like the Orlando shooting.

No, because things like this used to happen a lot and the perpetrators were never villified like the guy who did the shooting. The difference being that white people did it, and this dude was Muslim, so they could push their islamophobia forward. Islamophobia has gotten worse since 911, not since Obama came into office, and I can tell you it has gotten better since the Bush administration despite a presidential candidate whose platform partially hinges on Islamophobia. I can also tell you this from experience growing up in a Muslim family.

People need to be educated more. Many of the black people that police shot had records and these police legitimately thought they were posing a threat to them and other things.

No, this does not give an officer an excuse to gun down someone or give them a rough ride. There is almost nothing about a black teenager that is threatening unless they got a gun themselves - and they didn't.

And black on black crime is the most common kind of crime. Not white on black, not police on black, not police on white, not anything else.

I don't think you fundamentally understand the issue. What is the root of black-on-black crime? Gang violence, but most importantly it's a civilian attacking another civilian. You're saying we should hold our law enforcement whose job it is to break this shit up to the same standards as our gangs and civilians? I fucking hate this argument because it's assuming we should equate our police to thugs when in reality that is the issue and police-on-black crimes are inordinately larger in number than police-on-white. On top of that, a white vs black court case is more likely to favor the white dude than the black dude all else equal.

I don't think you really know anything about this. There's also a Trevor Noah segment on this, and I'm too lazy to look it up but police crime has reduced by around 30% or something for the Las Vegas PD after instituting some basic awareness training; the fact is that nobody is really doing anything about it.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Lord Raven

[carefreejules]

Yes, because building a wall between Mexico and the US is definitely going to make things better about the divide between races.

I believe it.

[Anacybele]

Yes, because building a wall between Mexico and the US is definitely going to make things better about the divide between races.

I believe it.

Uh, you do realize that wall is meant to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in and has nothing to with race, and that Trump wasn't actually serious about it, do you? I'm a Trump supporter, btw, and I know the wall idea is stupid.

Lord Raven, those men had guns and the police thought those men were reaching for them. That's the story I heard. I'm not saying they needed to die though, they should've just shot them in the leg or something. As for the point about black-on-black crime being the most common, it implies that a majority of criminals are black and that's why more black people get shot than white people.

Also, whether these shootings were justified or not, it never meant that innocent policemen should've been shot. The police in Dallas, Baton Rouge, and Fayetteville NC (my town) had nothing to do with those shootings. NOTHING.

Orlando is the largest mass shooting in history. In history. I think it's safe to say things are getting worse.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Anacybele

[Lord Raven]

Uh, you do realize that wall is meant to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in and has nothing to with race, and that Trump wasn't actually serious about it, do you? I'm a Trump supporter, btw, and I know the wall idea is stupid.

Trump's pretty fucking serious about it. He's not a joke candidate.

Lord Raven, those men had guns and the police thought those men were reaching for them. That's the story I heard.

[citation needed]

Also, whether these shootings were justified or not, it never meant that innocent policemen should've been shot. The police in Dallas, Baton Rouge, and Fayetteville NC (my town) had nothing to do with those shootings.

You're right, but let's not use this to deny that race relations between police and black people don't exist. That's kind of the point.

Orlando is the largest mass shooting in history. In history. I think it's safe to say things are getting worse.

Orlando was also done by one guy. It's not like it was a mass shooting by a whole gang of people, it was literally one dude. Does one guy speak for the entire rest of the citizens of this country?

I mean, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was the most progressive way for gays to be in the military in the 90s - and its repealing was celebrated but it was extremely progressive in the 90s. Gay marriage was legalized recently country-wide, after many states had legalized it after it had been illegal for many years.

Like, the fact that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was extremely progressive and is now really backwards by the perspective of the modern day should tell you a bit about how the US is progressing. One guy shooting up a gay night club isn't going to undo all of that progression.

EDIT:

I'm not saying they needed to die though, they should've just shot them in the leg or something.

Yeah, like getting shot in the leg will really fix anything if someone is actually holding a gun. When's the last time someone shot with their hand? I mean, you haven't provided sources to your previous claim, because it's pretty fucking dubious (Freddie Gray was unarmed btw, as for the example I brought up), so I'm not really gonna take this seriously. The other point is that they opted to shoot to kill instead of shooting the leg. Edited July 18, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Phoenix Wright]

is it gay people's fault that gay hate is getting worse

[Anacybele]

Trump's pretty fucking serious about it. He's not a joke candidate.

He's not a joke candidate, but he is a sarcastic one. He does need to watch what he says at times, however.

I can't give you direct citation, these were articles and TV news I saw a long time ago. But I tell you that is exactly what I heard.

Police do not hate black people, Lord Raven. You're becoming as deluded as those Black Lives Matter idiots. Not every cop is a saint, but for every one that isn't, hundreds more are good people. I see more people sharing good cop stories these days to show people that they can't lose faith in police. Another reason I defend them is because of how helpful they were when my brother died.

Orlando was also done by one guy. It's not like it was a mass shooting by a whole gang of people, it was literally one dude. Does one guy speak for the entire rest of the citizens of this country?

No, but you seem to be saying that a couple bad cop shootings would speak for all of the police in the country.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Anacybele

[Tryhard]

Here's the type of thing that makes me anxious to get behind the Black Lives Matter movement, though ironically this happened in Canada which, as far as I know, doesn't really suffer from the same level of police-black hostility.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/pride-parade-toronto-1.3662823

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/black-lives-matter-vancouver-pride-1.3682133

The fact that they stopped this parade and kicked police icons out of a gay pride parade, in which officers that were taking part or otherwise may in fact be gay, seems to simply position them no further than an anti-police group. Removing police icons isn't really building a better relationship with the police, considering the circumstances in America, but it seems rather... antithetical to their point when they halt a gay parade and then claim they aren't taking space away from anyone.

It may just be a few disagreeable people, but that doesn't reflect positively with me. Still, if their goal is to build a better relationship with the police and to specifically get justice for blacks executed by police unfairly, then I would support that. But further hatred isn't helping.

[Lord Raven]

He's not a joke candidate, but he is a sarcastic one. He does need to watch what he says at times, however.

He's not sarcastic. There was nothing about the Mexico wall that was sarcastic. Where are you getting the sarcasm from?

EDIT: This point deserves a big old [citation needed]

I can't give you direct citation, these were articles and TV news I saw a long time ago. But I tell you that is exactly what I heard.

Then I reject your dubious claim, because from my recollection (and I will link sources upon request) they were unarmed.

Police do not hate black people, Lord Raven. You're becoming as deluded as those Black Lives Matter idiots. Not every cop is a saint, but for every one that isn't, hundreds more are good people. I see more people sharing good cop stories these days to show people that they can't lose faith in police. Another reason I defend them is because of how helpful they were when my brother died.

This is not the point I was making. Stop misunderstanding me.

Police-on-black violence happens at a greater rate than police-on-black anything. The fact that there could even be a 1/50 or 1/100 is an issue that needs addressing. The other issue is that said violence is often times swept under the rug by courts and no reform happens as a result. This can also cause you to lose faith in police because corruption can spread as a result of this. This is significantly more complicated than you are making it. The fact that there is a chance that when law enforcement happens in any way, shape, or form, and even sometimes randomly, one of my best friends could be gunned down for next to nothing other than what is most likely the color of his skin, is fucking scary.

No, but you seem to be saying that a couple bad cop shootings would speak for all of the police in the country.

[citation needed]

Here's the type of thing that makes me anxious to get behind the Black Lives Matter movement, though ironically this happened in Canada which, as far as I know, doesn't really suffer from the same level of police-black hostility.

I agree with the concept and the concept is what I'll defend, just like how I'll defend the concept of law enforcement. If there's bad apples in the bunch then you weed them out, but the difference is that I don't hold protest movements to the same standard as the law enforcement no matter what they are. I know this is kind of irrelevant, but the reason I can get behind BLM is because their job is to raise awareness and as long as they don't sponsor assassination then whatever. Edited July 18, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Crysta]

Black Lives Matter does not hate the police; black cops are a thing believe it or not. They are a group who is trying (and apparently struggling) to bring attention and confront the abuses certain police officers have done on video.

It doesn't have to be all the cops being bad for it to be an issue worth addressing.

[Tryhard]

Black Lives Matter does not hate the police; black cops are a thing believe it or not. They are a group who is trying (and apparently struggling) to bring attention and confront the abuses certain police officers have done on video.

It doesn't have to be all the cops being bad for it to be an issue worth addressing.

I understand that, but why would they have to stop a peaceful gay pride parade for the express purpose of removing police floats? That's just really overstepping boundaries.

Edit: you were probably responding to ana with that considering the assertion of #notallcops in hindsight.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Tryhard

[Phoenix Wright]

Police do not hate black people, Lord Raven. You're becoming as deluded as those Black Lives Matter idiots. Not every cop is a saint, but for every one that isn't, hundreds more are good people.

some do. why are they idiots? also, where did you get those numbers.

[Anacybele]

[citation needed]

You're hilarious. Go look at your own posts.

He's not sarcastic. There was nothing about the Mexico wall that was sarcastic. Where are you getting the sarcasm from?

His tone of voice? The wording he tends to use? Things like that? And I'm usually bad at detecting sarcasm.

Then I reject your dubious claim, because from my recollection (and I will link sources upon request) they were unarmed.

The sources I saw were all titled that cops shot armed black men who were doing open carry and said that these men had permits and everything to carry their guns. It led to questions about the open carry thing in general. It later said that at least one of them had records for things like drug dealing.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Anacybele

[Elieson]

Ana I think you're considering this story, about the guy "reaching for his gun" that was just trying to pull up his belt-less pants.

[Lord Raven]

You're hilarious. Go look at your own posts.

Quote where I made this claim.

His tone of voice? The wording he tends to use? Things like that? And I'm usually bad at detecting sarcasm.

You are pretty bad at detecting sarcasm, you are correct.

The sources I saw were all titled that cops shot armed black men who were doing open carry and said that these men had permits and everything to carry their guns. It led to questions about the open carry thing in general.

Again, a link. It should not be hard to dig up.

Meanwhile:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/mesa/2016/03/29/mesa-police-release-report-officers-shooting-hotel-guest/82376090/

More cases are like this.

[Anacybele]

Ana I think you're considering this story, about the guy "reaching for his gun" that was just trying to pull up his belt-less pants.

...No, I've actually never heard of this story. But I suppose I could still be thinking of others. Because I know I recall reading about some guys who were doing open carry with their guns who were shot because police thought they were reaching for their guns etc etc.

At the end of the day, police and law enforcement will make mistakes sometimes. They're only human. It's unfortunate and sad when they happen, but it does not make them horrible people.

Lord Raven, you implied it, not said it directly.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Anacybele

[Lord Raven]

Nobody cares if you recall

we only care if you actually find the link to the article

At the end of the day, police and law enforcement will make mistakes sometimes. They're only human. It's unfortunate and sad when they happen, but it does not make them horrible people.

Ana, you're missing the point. "They will make mistakes sometimes," except their mistakes lead to the deaths of people, and many of those people happen to be black. There's a correlation here.

Lord Raven, you implied it, not said it directly.

How so? Edited July 18, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Captain Karnage]

it's a sad time, we can longer tell what tragedy the flags are at half mast for.

[Crysta]

I understand that, but why would they have to stop a peaceful gay pride parade for the express purpose of removing police floats? That's just really overstepping boundaries.

Edit: you were probably responding to ana with that considering the assertion of #notallcops in hindsight.

tbh after reading that article that seems incredibly dumb and the only positive thing I can glean from it was "at least they were polite" because they're canadian

a dumb float is not a problem