Sunwoo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Just because he can't very well convey it some of the time doesn't mean he doesn't have good ideas. I like a lot of his ideas and when he says he wants to do something, I feel like he's telling the truth and will do it because of how I think he ticks. Having good ideas isn't enough. Technically, everyone can have a good idea and we all want to do something. But that doesn't mean we're capable. And the first step of being able to do things is to communicate and convey it well. Which Trump doesn't. Which is why I have zero confidence in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) No... that's how research works, Ana. There is no difference. You have a viewpoint? You do research on it by digging up old articles and TV recordings. Your viewpoint - which isn't a viewpoint, you're just stating a fact - is that many of these (black) men were armed. I find that dubious, because many were not armed (and look through the link I provided and you may be surprised or even disgusted). You do research to confirm your side in order to beat my side. This is how debate/discussion works. Alton Sterling was shot reaching for his gun Jamar Clark was shot reaching for the officer's gun Philando Castille was shot when he did not comply with a Do Not Move order while his gun was visible etc. Edited July 19, 2016 by Balcerzak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) Having good ideas isn't enough. Technically, everyone can have a good idea and we all want to do something. But that doesn't mean we're capable. And the first step of being able to do things is to communicate and convey it well. Which Trump doesn't. Which is why I have zero confidence in him. I still think in the end, all that matters is how well those good ideas are executed. And we can agree that he'd be at least better than Hillary, right? I mean, she'd be a DISASTER. It looks like nobody has anything to say about the actual thread topic anymore though, so should this be locked or can there be more said about the thread topic? EDIT: Thank you, Balcerzak! I guess it would've been easier than I thought to find that stuff. And those sound to me like the shootings were justified, even if I still think those men didn't necessarily have to die. Edited July 19, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 What about the ones which were clearly unjustified?I'm unaware of any, can you provide an example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I still think in the end, all that matters is how well those good ideas are executed. And we can agree that he'd be at least better than Hillary, right? I mean, she'd be a DISASTER. Disagreed. I don't think Trump's ideas would be well executed. I dislike his rhetoric. And I'd take Clinton over him any day. Ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 Disagreed. I don't think Trump's ideas would be well executed. I dislike his rhetoric. And I'd take Clinton over him any day. Ever. Wow... Just...wow. I'm honestly very surprised. Sorry, but it's just how I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Wow... Just...wow. I'm honestly very surprised. Sorry, but it's just how I feel. I never told you that you can't feel the way you do. I can't understand it, and I'd like to know why you feel that way, but I'm not going to stop you from feeling that way. However, I will say that I wasn't = happy with how you said "and we can agree that Trump would be better than Clinton, right" like you're already assuming that I'm agreement that Trump is de facto better than Clinton and are just looking for confirmation. That said, what is with the "wow, just wow" thing of your post? Why is it so surprising that certain people find Trump worse than Clinton? Like I've stated before, he apparently makes himself so frequently misunderstood and isn't good with words. Clearly that is a turn-off to certain people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) It surprises me because Hillary is an established criminal and liar (the FBI found evidence that she mishandled information and all). She left troops to die (Benghazi). She wants to be president for herself, not the country. These are all HUGE turnoffs for me. I haven't found anything like this in Trump's history. And I apologize for that then, I guess I just got used to people around me agreeing that Trump would be better. Edited July 19, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashiane Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 You couldn't pay me any kind of dollar amount to vote for Trump. I'm basically every conservative Republican's worst nightmare: I'm Black, I'm a woman, I'm queer, I have a mental illness. I'm not going to vote for a person who has followers that would want me dead for the crime of existing. Absolutely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 It surprises me because Hillary is an established criminal and liar (the FBI found evidence that she mishandled information and all). She left troops to die (Benghazi). She wants to be president for herself, not the country. These are all HUGE turnoffs for me. I haven't found anything like this in Trump's history. And I apologize for that then, I guess I just got used to people around me agreeing that Trump would be better. Just because you haven't found anything in Trump's history doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It's also possible that the sources you are looking for don't talk about whatever Trump's done that is wrong. I've seen places that talk about shit Trump has done (although most of it is John Oliver, lol) so it all depends on where you're looking. The simplest way to put this is to say that you and I have very different political ideologies, and so we're going to disagree on which candidate we agree with more. And therefore, the sources we get stuff from will also have their own biases. And it's fine, just be more careful with your wording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carefreejules Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) And I apologize for that then, I guess I just got used to people around me agreeing that Trump would be better. Ana, you're on the internet where millions are people are going to have huge varying opinions. It's really presumptuous of someone to just assume that the people you are talking to are going to have the same views and expectations and that's something that shouldn't even be surprising to begin with. For me, I don't want Trump because I think he's an asshole. I don't care if the idea of building a wall is unrealistic or a joke he made up - the fact that he's proposing it in the first place is what does not sit well with me at all and it tells me a lot about his mindset and values. Also, have you seen him at his rallies? He fully supports any violence that his supports inflict on protesters. It doesn't matter if the protester were being violent - the fact of the matter is, he's fucking encouraging the violence and hatred. I don't care if it took place months ago, unless he wrote a formal apology for what happened, his actions are despicable in my eyes. http://www.vox.com/2016/7/18/12172206/trump-protests-cleveland In November, a Trump supporter "punched and attempted to choke" a protester at a rally in Birmingham, Alabama (according to the Washington Post); Trump said afterward that "maybe he deserved to get roughed up." I don't want a guy like him to be the most powerful person in the world. Edited July 19, 2016 by carefreejules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I'm unaware of any, can you provide an example? Sure. There's Walter Scott. Did not reach for a gun, believe it or not, but running away sure is dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 You couldn't pay me any kind of dollar amount to vote for Trump. I'm basically every conservative Republican's worst nightmare: I'm Black, I'm a woman, I'm queer, I have a mental illness. I'm not going to vote for a person who has followers that would want me dead for the crime of existing. Absolutely not. And this is why the Republican Party really needs to reconsider what it's doing right now. Appealing to White Christians and the upper class is still a workable idea if done right, but they've gone to such a ridiculous extreme that they're now associated nearly entirely with hatred of anyone who isn't a straight white person, never-mind the fact that smart conservatives (the kind who like fiscally Conservative policy and the free market) are being damned by association. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) Obama even says none of this was justified, but I feel he's part of the reason it's all happening. Ever since he's been in office, the country's been becoming more divided on things. Race, government, religion, whichever. And in the case of religion, terrorism is also to blame. But I hope Trump (because I predict him being elected) can make some things happen. you've been alive since this has happened, so it's probably your fault. if obama could run again, he'd easily get a third term, just saying. education is critical to solving almost any problem. it can stop this, it can also teach people how to climb over a wall. one is probably easier than the other. hopefully shootings will decline and less people will feel the need to be as extreme about whatever they want to accomplish, regardless of the color of their guns. Edited July 19, 2016 by Comet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyborgZeta Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) And I apologize for that then, I guess I just got used to people around me agreeing that Trump would be better. I'm not criticizing you here, but statements like this remind me of what's fueled the hyper-partisanship in the US these days. Thanks to the Internet and social media, it's easy to surround yourself with people who only think like you; people who share your opinions on things. It essentially creates an echo chamber for things like ideas and ideologies; it's probably also to blame for the kind of stuff you might see on college campuses. Like trigger warnings: Plus, every media seems to have some kind of bias one way or the other. I pretty much have to get most of my news from foreign news, because I can't completely trust US news media to be completely objective. Edited July 19, 2016 by CyborgZeta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Sure. There's Walter Scott. Did not reach for a gun, believe it or not, but running away sure is dangerous. Pretty sure that's literally all Freddie Gray did too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 You couldn't pay me any kind of dollar amount to vote for Trump. I'm basically every conservative Republican's worst nightmare: I'm Black, I'm a woman, I'm queer, I have a mental illness. I'm not going to vote for a person who has followers that would want me dead for the crime of existing. Absolutely not. Believe me, I'm disgusted that Trump has followers that act like that. I'm disgusted that I support the same person that they do. I don't blame Trump for their actions though. I blame them for their actions. You know that Trump has black supporters, right? They're afraid to admit it, though, because of the kind of followers you mentioned. Sangyul: Fair enough. Ana, you're on the internet where millions are people are going to have huge varying opinions. It's really presumptuous of someone to just assume that the people you are talking to are going to have the same views and expectations and that's something that shouldn't even be surprising to begin with. For me, I don't want Trump because I think he's an asshole. I don't care if the idea of building a wall is unrealistic or a joke he made up - the fact that he's proposing it in the first place is what does not sit well with me at all and it tells me a lot about his mindset and values. Also, have you seen him at his rallies? He fully supports any violence that his supports inflict on protesters. It doesn't matter if the protester were being violent - the fact of the matter is, he's fucking encouraging the violence and hatred. I don't care if it took place months ago, unless he wrote a formal apology for what happened, his actions are despicable in my eyes. http://www.vox.com/2016/7/18/12172206/trump-protests-cleveland I don't want a guy like him to be the most powerful person in the world. I highly doubt Trump means that he supports the idea of just outright attacking others. He probably means "feel free to defend yourself if you're attacked." Which is most certainly reasonable. No sane person would encourage someone to just go attacking others for any reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 i'm pretty sure trump promoted international war crimes on television. at least he didn't direct them toward america. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Pretty sure that's literally all Freddie Gray did too. Don't think Eric Garner had a gun, either, but... he was... big? And threatening? And illegally selling cigs? John Crawford foolishly thought he could carry around a BB gun in a Wal-Mart in an open carry state, but I think that would be classified as "justified" by some parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 i'm pretty sure trump promoted international war crimes on television. at least he didn't direct them toward america. Here it is: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrador Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I don't blame Trump for their actions though. Oh, funny story here. My family's hometown used to have a nasty dueling problem. We're talking a dozen dead in a year with a population under 500 back then. Things were awful, and stayed that way until long after the rest of the civilized world was frowning badly on the practice. Incidentally, you can still get revolver rentals at 1st and Main. But that has nothing at all to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carefreejules Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I highly doubt Trump means that he supports the idea of just outright attacking others. He probably means "feel free to defend yourself if you're attacked." Which is most certainly reasonable. No sane person would encourage someone to just go attacking others for any reason. Or maybe he should have encouraged safety and security protocols to calmly remove angry protesters or supporters instead of just resorting to violence as a defense mechanism. One or some of his supporters evenly openly pepper sprayed protesters. If you're a leader who has disrespectful and disgusting followers and you're not doing anything about it, you're not being a very good leader imo. He has the money I'm sure he has some security guards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1eXRXL0nkk Wow...That's kind of disgusting actually. There's a line one shouldn't cross. And does he honestly belive that "destroying" ISIS is going to the end the attacks? He's really naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 Or maybe he should have encouraged safety and security protocols to calmly remove angry protesters or supporters instead of just resorting to violence as a defense mechanism. One or some of his supporters evenly openly pepper sprayed protesters. If you're a leader who has disrespectful and disgusting followers and you're not doing anything about it, you're not being a very good leader imo. He has the money I'm sure he has some security guards. Yeah, he should have. That's where he really needs to get his point across better. He should be using security guards more, if he isn't using them much. To be perfectly honest, I don't think Trump is the perfect candidate. I like him, but I don't think he'd be super amazing and all. I more or less think he's the best we've got to pick from by a good margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Also re: Trump being a criminal, I think the Trump University case is still going? Which was it's own circus, oh boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.