Professional Super Smash Bros. Player Hyuga and Molestation Allegations

[Jaybee]

There is only one side of a story to hear in a case of sexual crimes. To give any credence to the sex offender trivializes what is always a very serious crime. Honestly, his defense didn't work for the Vanderbilt American Football players, so why would it work for him. She didn't press charges, so the worst he faces is the ban, when the Vanderbilt players face decades in a state prison. He should take flak and be lucky he isn't going to end up in a Las Vegas jail.

are you saying this because he's already been exposed or would this apply if he, say, denied whatever allegations were against him

[Rezzy]

From a legal perspective, there's also the added caveat that he's a foreign national. So I'm not sure if he'd get put through the legal system, or just expelled from the country. He acts like he's penitent, but I'm not sure if he's truly sorry, or just doesn't want to be banned. Being banned for a year (or longer) is a just punishment in this case, and realistically all that can be done, if charges aren't being filed.

[eclipse]

I'm most definitely NOT a lawyer. However, if she made the statements she did in the US, as well her being a US citizen, wouldn't it fall under US laws?

[Moblin Major General]

are you saying this because he's already been exposed or would this apply if he, say, denied whatever allegations were against him

If he denied it, he's a bastard for disrespecting her. If that happened, he probably would've been jailed.

To Rezzy: More than 75% of criminal sexual acts go unreported. Rape is the only crime that I would rather an innocent go to prison than the guilty walk free. The only thing worse than being killed by a criminal is being raped by one, especially if it involves torture, if not torture already.

[blah the Prussian]

If he denied it, he's a bastard for disrespecting her. If that happened, he probably would've been jailed.

To Rezzy: More than 75% of criminal sexual acts go unreported. Rape is the only crime that I would rather an innocent go to prison than the guilty walk free. The only thing worse than being killed by a criminal is being raped by one, especially if it involves torture, if not torture already.

NO. That is contrary to our legal system and, much as I have a problem with America's form of government, probably our greatest contribution is due process. There will never be anything that justifies giving that up. The government has a duty to protect its people; if the government places one of its innocent subjects in prison it has failed. I would rather 10 rapists walk free than 1 innocent go to jail. Look, some rapists going free is the price we have to pay for a system where we are innocent until proven guilty, and it's more than worth it.

[Water Mage]

Rape is the only crime that I would rather an innocent go to prison than the guilty walk free.

Please don't say anything like that ever again. That sort thing is an insult to the very reason the judicial system and courts exist.

It's also an insult to the rape victims as well. Doing something like this trivializes their suffering and you would be trivializing the crime of rape as well.

Besides, I'm sure that would none of the rape victims would want an innocent to go to jail.

[Tryhard]

There's always a second side to hear. And it sounds like this case is legit from what we've been told, that is for the court of law to decide. (Or is should be.) False accusations can and do happen. There was the Duke Lacrosse scandal, where a girl falsely accused a few players of rape, and it ruined their lives, even though they were innocent. The allegations should be taken very seriously, but not turn into a "Guilty until proven innocent" sort of system.

While I agree, it becomes a lot harder to justify when multiple people give the same account and on top of that don't press charges. Are we expected to believe that multiple people got together and wanted to throw an accusation like this without even pressing charges on it? That seems highly unlikely. That and he's danced around admitting to it, I believe he said it was "likely" but he was drunk, so he didn't remember it. In most cases where rape/sexual assault cannot have a verdict it's usually only one person's word against another's.

[Moblin Major General]

NO. That is contrary to our legal system and, much as I have a problem with America's form of government, probably our greatest contribution is due process. There will never be anything that justifies giving that up. The government has a duty to protect its people; if the government places one of its innocent subjects in prison it has failed. I would rather 10 rapists walk free than 1 innocent go to jail. Look, some rapists going free is the price we have to pay for a system where we are innocent until proven guilty, and it's more than worth it.

Please don't say anything like that ever again. That sort thing is an insult to the very reason the judicial system and courts exist.

It's also an insult to the rape victims as well. Doing something like this trivializes their suffering and you would be trivializing the crime of rape as well.

Besides, I'm sure that would none of the rape victims would want an innocent to go to jail.

I wasn't saying due process shouldn't be a thing, and most DAs wouldn't even try a rape case they thought was motivated by a reason other than a crime was committed (i.e. early in the Bill Cosby rape scandal or Duke Lacrosse). I'm just saying that the only time a rapist has the right to defend his actions is his day in court if formally accused. Rape requires a lot of evidence to convict, so a false guilty verdict would have to come from a biased jury, something I would hope doesn't happen. You both put words in my mouth that weren't there. I was not implying they go straight to prison, just that it's bad to let people who are on par with Nero or Ghengis Khan roam the streets of a civilized and mostly peaceful world. And would not the innocent use their right of appeal to free themselves? That's where the true test of innocence and guilt is. Were I against due process, I would hate appeals, and as much as plea bargains make me sick, they have to stay, even for the worst sex crimes. However, those do need to be tougher, or else that will trivialize the gravity of such crimes.

[Life]

Brian Banks would love to have a word with you, mate.

[Rezzy]

I'm most definitely NOT a lawyer. However, if she made the statements she did in the US, as well her being a US citizen, wouldn't it fall under US laws?

It would, but since he'd probably be back in Mexico before any charges were processed, it would involve extraditing him back to the US, unless they held him in jail for the duration, which probably wouldn't be viable.

If he denied it, he's a bastard for disrespecting her. If that happened, he probably would've been jailed.

To Rezzy: More than 75% of criminal sexual acts go unreported. Rape is the only crime that I would rather an innocent go to prison than the guilty walk free. The only thing worse than being killed by a criminal is being raped by one, especially if it involves torture, if not torture already.

There's a whole slew of reasons that many criminal sexual acts going unreported, including, but not limited to, the victim often knowing the perpetrator, often lack of concrete evidence that leads to a "he said, she said", and just wanting to move on from the incident and not get dragged down by a lengthy legal process. VikkiKitty seems to think that the legal process would be more trouble than it's worth, and I can't blame her for that. I was groped in a similar fashion, though without real witnesses and I never told anybody about it, because it would have been more trouble than it was worth. I've moved on, and hardly ever think about it.

I think it's a bit steep saying rape is worse than murder. If given the choice, I'd much rather be raped than murdered. And especially in cases like these, I want to make darn sure the person is guilty, before being sent to prison for a crime they didn't commit. Even with our fail-safes, we have a huge prison population and plenty of innocents who have been sent there based on hearsay.

NO. That is contrary to our legal system and, much as I have a problem with America's form of government, probably our greatest contribution is due process. There will never be anything that justifies giving that up. The government has a duty to protect its people; if the government places one of its innocent subjects in prison it has failed. I would rather 10 rapists walk free than 1 innocent go to jail. Look, some rapists going free is the price we have to pay for a system where we are innocent until proven guilty, and it's more than worth it.

I agree with this. Rape (or sexual assault in this case) is a terrible crime, but you can't relax the burden of proof, lest you jail those that aren't guilty.

Please don't say anything like that ever again. That sort thing is an insult to the very reason the judicial system and courts exist.

It's also an insult to the rape victims as well. Doing something like this trivializes their suffering and you would be trivializing the crime of rape as well.

Besides, I'm sure that would none of the rape victims would want an innocent to go to jail.

Being accused of rape when the person didn't commit it and going to jail is worse in my opinion than being raped, itself. Prisoners, especially alleged rapists are treated horribly in prison, while a rape victim at least had the opportunity to live his/her life and move on.

While I agree, it becomes a lot harder to justify when multiple people give the same account and on top of that don't press charges. Are we expected to believe that multiple people got together and wanted to throw an accusation like this without even pressing charges on it? That seems highly unlikely. That and he's danced around admitting to it, I believe he said it was "likely" but he was drunk, so he didn't remember it. In most cases where rape/sexual assault cannot have a verdict it's usually only one person's word against another's.

This seems to be a pretty clear case where he's guilty, but it's a moot point since charges aren't being filed.

I wasn't saying due process shouldn't be a thing, and most DAs wouldn't even try a rape case they thought was motivated by a reason other than a crime was committed (i.e. early in the Bill Cosby rape scandal or Duke Lacrosse). I'm just saying that the only time a rapist has the right to defend his actions is his day in court if formally accused. Rape requires a lot of evidence to convict, so a false guilty verdict would have to come from a biased jury, something I would hope doesn't happen. You both put words in my mouth that weren't there. I was not implying they go straight to prison, just that it's bad to let people who are on par with Nero or Ghengis Khan roam the streets of a civilized and mostly peaceful world. And would not the innocent use their right of appeal to free themselves? That's where the true test of innocence and guilt is. Were I against due process, I would hate appeals, and as much as plea bargains make me sick, they have to stay, even for the worst sex crimes. However, those do need to be tougher, or else that will trivialize the gravity of such crimes.

I don't know anything about this guy, apart from what I've read here, but I think it's a bit steep to say he's on the same level as Ghengis Khan or Nero. Even as far as sexual assauly goes, he's pretty low on the totem pole. Someone who drunkenly gropes a girl isn't really as bad as one who rapes someone. Even if this went to trial and he was found guilty, it would likely be probation along with possible placement on the list of sex offenders. If he got any jail time at all, it would likely be very short. There wasn't a weapon involved, and no penetration or actual sexual acts beyond the groping, if I'm to understand correctly, and she wasn't a minor.

What he did was reprehensible, but I just want to keep everything in proper perspective.

[Phoenix Wright]

If he denied it, he's a bastard for disrespecting her. If that happened, he probably would've been jailed.

To Rezzy: More than 75% of criminal sexual acts go unreported. Rape is the only crime that I would rather an innocent go to prison than the guilty walk free. The only thing worse than being killed by a criminal is being raped by one, especially if it involves torture, if not torture already.

???

[Jiac]

I forgot to update the story, as official statements have been released by Hyuga himself, from his perspective of the story and what he remembers.

First part of his statement says:

"I just can’t go to tournaments, the TO's from around the world, decided the ban, I accept it, I'm not accepting the “facts”, I never said that, what I said is that I accept the punishment, because I'm accepting guilt, guilt because I was very drunk with people that I did not know and in another country, that was my responsibility, and that is why, I accept the consequences, NOBODY else is to blame for what happened to me... I should have known better how to take care of myself, my mistake and nobody else. I'll tell you my version, what I remember and I'm 100% sure that happened."

I'll summarize/paraphrase what he claims to have happened because the grammar on the post is rough.

Hyuga was at a pool party, chilling and drinking with many US players after EVO. Everything was alright until the party ended. After the party, DJ Jack invites Hyuga into his hotel room where several SoCal players were staying and drinking. When Hyuga arrives to the hotel room, he gets offered some shots, and he accepts them. He also remembers playing a little bit too (likely Smash but he just says "played a bit"). After playing, Hyuga, DJ Jack, and Vikki go out of the room to buy him another bottle of alcohol to drink. He returns to the room to continue playing and drinking to the point he blacks out and doesn't remember anything that happens. When he wakes up, he wakes up to Nick Riddle telling him "you gotta go." Hyuga assumed it was already close to sunrise/morning time being the reason Nick Riddle told him to leave. He got up and asked Nick Riddle to help him find his backpack, his passport, and his visa, which Nick Riddle assisted him in finding. But in the end, they couldn't find his belongings, so he asks "them" if "they" could give it to him later, and "they" reply yes. (I don't know who "them" or "they" are we can assume it's Nick Riddle and everyone in the room during the incident) He leaves the hotel, and takes a taxi to bring him to the hotel he was staying. Upon arriving to his own hotel room he falls asleep. Hours later when he wakes up, the entire incident explodes. Confused and realizing what has happened, Hyuga tries to contact DJ Jack and Nick Riddle to tell them he has no memory of the incident whatsoever, and wants to communicate with them to understand the situation. He is unsuccessful because they decided to block him on Twitter, therefore cannot communicate with them at all.

The finishing part of the statement is just him potentially retiring from competitive Smash Bros. It'll be very hard for him to return because the community is too hostile towards him for him to continue playing. He decided he wants to finish his studies to start his career.

Of course, this doesn't last long as Vikki responds to him soon to resolve the conflict. He has made a statement he may consider coming out of retirement, but no guarantees. He wants to make sure his alcohol problem is resolved before he starts playing again.

EDIT 2: He also expresses his apologies for the party involved.

I will add this to the main post as it adds a piece to the story.

While, I do feel like Hyuga's story has a few inconsistencies, such as, thinking it's morning, but goes on a taxi ride to realize it isn't. Allegedly, Vikki's side did have a couple inconsistencies with their stories. A person named Sky Williams has gathered all information from all parties involved, and has been in this type of situation before, where people shamed and hunted people over a specific situation. He hasn't released anything on the issue, and is likely waiting for the controversy to die down before he makes a statement on it. (likely a video according to his Twitter)

EDIT:

Source: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sott9h

For Hyuga's statement

Edited July 24, 2016 by ~Summer~

[Rezzy]

I forgot to update the story, as official statements have been released by Hyuga himself, from his perspective of the story and what he remembers.

First part of his statement says:

"I just can’t go to tournaments, the TO's from around the world, decided the ban, I accept it, I'm not accepting the “facts”, I never said that, what I said is that I accept the punishment, because I'm accepting guilt, guilt because I was very drunk with people that I did not know and in another country, that was my responsibility, and that is why, I accept the consequences, NOBODY else is to blame for what happened to me... I should have known better how to take care of myself, my mistake and nobody else. I'll tell you my version, what I remember and I'm 100% sure that happened."

I'll summarize/paraphrase what he claims to have happened because the grammar on the post is rough.

Hyuga was at a pool party, chilling and drinking with many US players after EVO. Everything was alright until the party ended. After the party, DJ Jack invites Hyuga into his hotel room where several SoCal players were staying and drinking. When Hyuga arrives to the hotel room, he gets offered some shots, and he accepts them. He also remembers playing a little bit too (likely Smash but he just says "played a bit"). After playing, Hyuga, DJ Jack, and Vikki go out of the room to buy him another bottle of alcohol to drink. He returns to the room to continue playing and drinking to the point he blacks out and doesn't remember anything that happens. When he wakes up, he wakes up to Nick Riddle telling him "you gotta go." Hyuga assumed it was already close to sunrise/morning time being the reason Nick Riddle told him to leave. He got up and asked Nick Riddle to help him find his backpack, his passport, and his visa, which Nick Riddle assisted him in finding. But in the end, they couldn't find his belongings, so he asks "them" if "they" could give it to him later, and "they" reply yes. (I don't know who "them" or "they" are we can assume it's Nick Riddle and everyone in the room during the incident) He leaves the hotel, and takes a taxi to bring him to the hotel he was staying. Upon arriving to his own hotel room he falls asleep. Hours later when he wakes up, the entire incident explodes. Confused and realizing what has happened, Hyuga tries to contact DJ Jack and Nick Riddle to tell them he has no memory of the incident whatsoever, and wants to communicate with them to understand the situation. He is unsuccessful because they decided to block him on Twitter, therefore cannot communicate with them at all.

The finishing part of the statement is just him potentially retiring from competitive Smash Bros. It'll be very hard for him to return because the community is too hostile towards him for him to continue playing. He decided he wants to finish his studies to start his career.

Of course, this doesn't last long as Vikki responds to him soon to resolve the conflict. He has made a statement he may consider coming out of retirement, but no guarantees. He wants to make sure his alcohol problem is resolved before he starts playing again.

EDIT 2: He also expresses his apologies for the party involved.

I will add this to the main post as it adds a piece to the story.

While, I do feel like Hyuga's story has a few inconsistencies, such as, thinking it's morning, but goes on a taxi ride to realize it isn't. Allegedly, Vikki's side did have a couple inconsistencies with their stories. A person named Sky Williams has gathered all information from all parties involved, and has been in this type of situation before, where people shamed and hunted people over a specific situation. He hasn't released anything on the issue, and is likely waiting for the controversy to die down before he makes a statement on it. (likely a video according to his Twitter)

EDIT:

Source: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sott9h

For Hyuga's statement

Yeah, that's part of the reason I always like to wait for all the facts to come out. It sounds like he's accepting their decision which is good. It sounds like it's generally accepted he groped her, but if the others kept giving him drinks after he'd obviously had too much, that is partly inculpating on their part, not quite slipping a roofy, but they should have known better.

It's tough to stay objective in cases like these, my gut always wants to hang to accused out to dry, but there's been too many cases where not everything adds up, so I've grown to be wary of cases like this.

[blah the Prussian]

I wasn't saying due process shouldn't be a thing, and most DAs wouldn't even try a rape case they thought was motivated by a reason other than a crime was committed (i.e. early in the Bill Cosby rape scandal or Duke Lacrosse). I'm just saying that the only time a rapist has the right to defend his actions is his day in court if formally accused. Rape requires a lot of evidence to convict, so a false guilty verdict would have to come from a biased jury, something I would hope doesn't happen. You both put words in my mouth that weren't there. I was not implying they go straight to prison, just that it's bad to let people who are on par with Nero or Ghengis Khan roam the streets of a civilized and mostly peaceful world. And would not the innocent use their right of appeal to free themselves? That's where the true test of innocence and guilt is. Were I against due process, I would hate appeals, and as much as plea bargains make me sick, they have to stay, even for the worst sex crimes. However, those do need to be tougher, or else that will trivialize the gravity of such crimes.

You're still ruining their lives, even if they do get out on appeal, which, by the way, is hardly guaranteed. I can also pretty easily see a biased jury in cases where the defendant(s) are minorities, particularly in the South. Look, for example, at the Scotsboro boys case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottsboro_Boys

Even though it's safe to say racism in the US is no longer on that level, it is still definitely present, and I can easily see a jury convicting a black man on a white "victim's" word alone in several parts of the country.

[-Cynthia-]

I would be more distressed if the Smash community just handwaved this. In all likelihood, Hyuga committed a serious crime and committing crimes often leads to people losing their jobs.

[eclipse]

Yeah, that's part of the reason I always like to wait for all the facts to come out. It sounds like he's accepting their decision which is good. It sounds like it's generally accepted he groped her, but if the others kept giving him drinks after he'd obviously had too much, that is partly inculpating on their part, not quite slipping a roofy, but they should have known better.

It's tough to stay objective in cases like these, my gut always wants to hang to accused out to dry, but there's been too many cases where not everything adds up, so I've grown to be wary of cases like this.

This I don't agree with, for two reasons:

1. Hyuga should know his own limits, and getting drunk in a foreign place is something that I wouldn't do (too unsafe).

2. This could also be one of those instances where mixing booze resulted in a bad reaction - in his case, amnesia, and it might not have been apparent until after it had occurred.

[Raven]

Getting shitfaced to the point of blacking out is never a good idea. If anything, I'd say the guy had no idea of his limits with certain types of alcohol and he payed a pretty big price for his ignorance. He's lucky she isn't pressing charges, since she has every right to do so.

Also, it's not rape if the woman wasn't penetrated.

[Rezzy]

I would be more distressed if the Smash community just handwaved this. In all likelihood, Hyuga committed a serious crime and committing crimes often leads to people losing their jobs.

Thankfully, it looks like they aren't. I've actually got a couple cousins who are pretty into Smash competitions, specifically Melee.

This I don't agree with, for two reasons:

1. Hyuga should know his own limits, and getting drunk in a foreign place is something that I wouldn't do (too unsafe).

2. This could also be one of those instances where mixing booze resulted in a bad reaction - in his case, amnesia, and it might not have been apparent until after it had occurred.

I did not mean to imply that Hyuga was completely innocent in this case. It looks like he committed the sexual assault from what we know and he bears responsibility for his actions. The being overserved just acts as a slight bit of mitigating circumstance. Bar tenders can get into trouble for overserving and people should know not to keep giving drinks to someone who is already obviously drunk. In a hypothetical trial it would still be Hyuga who was 90% responsible, but the people who overserved him would be 10% responsible. I still think him being banned for his actions is the just decision, here.

[Excellen Browning]

Getting shitfaced to the point of blacking out is never a good idea. If anything, I'd say the guy had no idea of his limits with certain types of alcohol and he payed a pretty big price for his ignorance. He's lucky she isn't pressing charges, since she has every right to do so.

Also, it's not rape if the woman wasn't penetrated.

Pretty much this. For next time it might be a good idea to bring someone as shitfaced as hyuga was to his own hotel room and let him sleep his drunk off there, or have the police come pick him after the first touching up incidence and let him sleep it off in jail. Edited July 24, 2016 by Excellen Browning

[EricaofRenais]

Honestly I agree with Pharoahe Monch I have lived with an alcoholic for all my life (my father and I won't get into why I still live with my parents) and all the alcohol does is make my dad say what he is really thinking/do what he is thinking about and I will never cut him any slack because of the things he has done/said while he was drunk.

[Rezzy]

Honestly I agree with Pharoahe Monch I have lived with an alcoholic for all my life (my father and I won't get into why I still live with my parents) and all the alcohol does is make my dad say what he is really thinking/do what he is thinking about and I will never cut him any slack because of the things he has done/said while he was drunk.

I have a similar experience. My mother is/was an alcoholic. She said some positively nasty things about/to me when she was drunk. I moved out on my own when I was 19 because I was tired of dealing with it. But, everybody has bad thoughts that they have in their heads that normally, they wouldn't say or act upon. If I judged my mother only on how she acted when she was drunk, I would hate her.

I rarely drink, and have never been drunk, because I see how it affects those in my family, and I don't want to be like that.

[Life]

I have a similar experience. My mother is/was an alcoholic. She said some positively nasty things about/to me when she was drunk. I moved out on my own when I was 19 because I was tired of dealing with it. But, everybody has bad thoughts that they have in their heads that normally, they wouldn't say or act upon. If I judged my mother only on how she acted when she was drunk, I would hate her.

I rarely drink, and have never been drunk, because I see how it affects those in my family, and I don't want to be like that.

I find that on message boards, a lot of users have darker backstories than most people.

For me, my dad is a happy drunk (on top of having a tolerance level that rivals being a goddamn killer whale) as was my grandfather. I'm the same way.

In any regard, the trick is knowing your limit and stopping a drink before that. For me, that's about a litre or so of beer (or after half a bottle of scotch). I personally love the taste of alcohol but do not enjoy getting drunk.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Pharoahe Monch

[Rezzy]

I find that on message boards, a lot of users have darker backstories than most people.

For me, my dad is a happy drunk (on top of having a tolerance level that rivals being a goddamn killer whale) as was my grandfather. I'm the same way.

In any regard, the trick is knowing your limit and stopping a drink before that. For me, that's about a litre or so of beer (or after half a bottle of scotch). I personally love the taste of alcohol but do not enjoy getting drunk.

I don't care if you don't believe me. But that's just what it is, backstory. And I think having first hand experience with alcoholic parents isn't something that is as rare as you might think. According to the National Council on Alcohol and Drug Dependence, 1 in 12 adults in the US suffer from alcohol abuse or dependence. https://www.ncadd.org/about-addiction/alcohol/facts-about-alcohol That's a pretty darn high percentage, so running into someone with an alcoholic parent is something you probably do regularly, without even realizing it.

I have a very happy life now, with one child already and another on the way soon, but I had a rough time in my late teens and early twenties. My family has a lot of alcoholics and drug users. I've never touched the stuff, because I saw what it does. I've worked very hard to get where I am.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Rezzy

[Life]

I don't care if you don't believe me. But that's just what it is, backstory. And I think having first hand experience with alcoholic parents isn't something that is as rare as you might think. According to the National Council on Alcohol and Drug Dependence, 1 in 12 adults in the US suffer from alcohol abuse or dependence. https://www.ncadd.org/about-addiction/alcohol/facts-about-alcohol That's a pretty darn high percentage, so running into someone with an alcoholic parent is something you probably do regularly, without even realizing it.

I have a very happy life now, with one child already and another on the way soon, but I had a rough time in my late teens and early twenties. My family has a lot of alcoholics and drug users. I've never touched the stuff, because I saw what it does. I've worked very hard to get where I am.

Let's start with the bolded.

OI! Reading comprehension, mate!

Ok, the rest. Congrats on your life. That's not the point. The original point is that alcohol is only as dangerous as you let it be as a non-abuser and alcohols are recognized rather quickly in bars (again, this is only my two and a half years experience in nightlife speaking but...) but even so, some people slip out.

Disclaimer: I'm drunk right now so I can't predict shit.

[Rezzy]

Let's start with the bolded.

OI! Reading comprehension, mate!

I think the meaning is clear. I was responding to you implying my mother's alcoholism was a lie. The bolded doesn't really qualify as a double negative, because "if" acts as a conjunction. I don't care if (clause). In this case, if you don't believe me. Since I claim to be in a state of not caring, whether the clause was "if you believe me" or "if you don't believe me," the meaning would be the same.

Ok, the rest. Congrats on your life. That's not the point. The original point is that alcohol is only as dangerous as you let it be as a non-abuser and alcohols are recognized rather quickly in bars (again, this is only my two and a half years experience in nightlife speaking but...) but even so, some people slip out.

Disclaimer: I'm drunk right now so I can't predict shit.

It's great if you handle your alcohol well, but lots of people grew up with parents that don't, and most people's opinions on the matter are shaped by their life experiences.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Rezzy