Good Units to Capture/Kidnap Thread

[Experiment 626]

I was wondering/hoping that we could put together a solid thread/mini FAQ type deal for all the possible enemy units & bosses that can be acquired through Orochi/Niles' Capture/Kidnap command?!

I'm currently running a Conquest campaign on Hard difficulty, but I'm also planning to soon start up a Birthright/Hard file as well.

I know about Haitaka & Kumeragi on Conquest + Daniela on Birthright, plus the various Child Paralog bosses, but what about other units?

IIRC, in the same chapter where you can acquire Daniela, there's also some generic Generals who can be gotten?

What about in Conquest? I'm currently on Chapter 11... are there any decent generic units to be on the look out for? (ie: I want to get a generic Diviner/Basara for example - are there any that can be captured at some point, or should I just go ahead and train-up a basic Enihergar one?)

Also, what various skills do the capturable units begin with between Normal/Hard/Lunatic difficulties?!

[Shadow Mir]

The only capturable unit that stands out that I can remember that isn't a Paralogue boss or Daniela, Haitaka, or Kumagera is that one Master of Arms in the Great Wall of Suzanoh (chapter 23 Conquest). On Lunatic, he has like 4 Rallies.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Avalanche]

I've read somewhere that you can recruit Falcon Knights with Pass on some of the late game Conquest Maps. I forget if it's a Lunatic exclusive thing, but it can do wonders for the Endgame, especially if you aren't using Nina or Niles as Adventurer's.

Also, while I've never used him, I've heard good things about Haitaka on Conquest Chapter 10. Gotta Rally that Defense

[Lethakitty]

birthright pretty much has no important skills on enemies. capturing is really only useful on conquest

[joshcja]

I was wondering/hoping that we could put together a solid thread/mini FAQ type deal for all the possible enemy units & bosses that can be acquired through Orochi/Niles' Capture/Kidnap command?!

I'm currently running a Conquest campaign on Hard difficulty, but I'm also planning to soon start up a Birthright/Hard file as well.

I know about Haitaka & Kumeragi on Conquest + Daniela on Birthright, plus the various Child Paralog bosses, but what about other units?

IIRC, in the same chapter where you can acquire Daniela, there's also some generic Generals who can be gotten?

What about in Conquest? I'm currently on Chapter 11... are there any decent generic units to be on the look out for? (ie: I want to get a generic Diviner/Basara for example - are there any that can be captured at some point, or should I just go ahead and train-up a basic Enihergar one?)

Also, what various skills do the capturable units begin with between Normal/Hard/Lunatic difficulties?!

On lunatic CQ you want the pass falco in ch24 and the ch23 rallymaster, Izana joins as a free sage and your party gives everything else.

If you fuck up and don't build a zerker there's the boss of forrsts paralouge I guess.

capture doesn't really matter on any other game mode/diffictuly

Edited July 28, 2016 by joshcja

[sirmola]

Some skills are really common on enemies in lunatic conquest: Seals, cut through, counter, locktouch, armored blow, and warding blow are the ones i can think of off the top of my head. Generaly, the number of skills on generics increases as the game progresses. ch23 actualy has 3 rally users, but the other 2 "only" have 3 rallies and ameratsu. On birthright, danella is the only capture of any note, and that's only because her savage breath can be usefull early on and she has an early a staff rank. Many of the capturable bosses, including her, have stats that are horrible for that level. Haitakka, kumigora, seno, and gazak are the only ones with decent stats that i know of.

Capturable generics have skills in birthright and revelation, but they are always skills that correspond to their class (Although some generics in skirmishes spawn with combinations of skills from different predecessor classes, such as a great knight with elbow room and defence +2, or an onmyogi with rally luck, miracle, and magic +2) The only exceptions are generics who are in the lancer class (which learns no skills naturaly) and child paralogs that are otherwise nohr exclusive. Enemies in those keep the skills they would have had in nohr lunatic. It is worth noting that all of the capturable bosses of the children's paralogs appear as capturable enemies in the duelist museum DLC in any path.

I have seen lancers spawn with the following skills in skirmishes in revelation:

Strength +2

Defence +2

Cut through

Seal strength

Seal defence

Underdog

Wary Fighter

Elbow room

Natural cover

I actualy have a captured lancer boss from a random encounter who has 5(!) skills, although 2-3 is more comon.

Edited July 28, 2016 by sirmola

[TheWerdna]

On Lunatic conquest you can capture Rallyman on chapter 22 (a generic master of arms with 4 rally skills)

[sirmola]

On Lunatic conquest you can capture Rallyman on chapter 22 (a generic master of arms with 4 rally skills)

YEah, he's probably the single best example. It would require a ton of work/money to get those 4 rallys on a player character. THis guy simplifies the process immensely. HE can't get any more ralleys without DLC, though. (The second-easiest way to do this is to get an appropriate laslow/shigure from an easy sieze castle. One of the really high rated ones has laslow. Many people may consider that cheating, though) As i said above, there are 2 guys with 3 rallys/ameratsu.in the same chapter. Both of them have ralleys that ralleyman does not, so you might want to capture more than one for different situations.

Edited July 29, 2016 by sirmola

[Alastor15243]

Laslow's still better than Rallyman though, since he can not only get even better strength and speed bonuses if you marry him to Azura or Selena and buddy him up with Keaton, but he can also, crucially, REPLICATE. And that is CRUCIAL whenever you're doing a split map, and there are plenty of maps that do that. Laslow's well worth the investment, especially since he starts becoming noticeably useful well before chapter 23.

[sirmola]

Laslow's still better than Rallyman though, since he can not only get even better strength and speed bonuses if you marry him to Azura or Selena and buddy him up with Keaton, but he can also, crucially, REPLICATE. And that is CRUCIAL whenever you're doing a split map, and there are plenty of maps that do that. Laslow's well worth the investment, especially since he starts becoming noticeably useful well before chapter 23.

Granted. Rallyman's main advantages are requireing no online access/odd pairings and being extremely low effort.

[Shadow Mir]

Laslow's still better than Rallyman though, since he can not only get even better strength and speed bonuses if you marry him to Azura or Selena and buddy him up with Keaton, but he can also, crucially, REPLICATE. And that is CRUCIAL whenever you're doing a split map, and there are plenty of maps that do that. Laslow's well worth the investment, especially since he starts becoming noticeably useful well before chapter 23.

Aside from all the investment needed, I highly doubt you could get Laslow to get all those rallies AND Replicate before chapter 23... I mean, sure he can get the rallies before then, but Replicate, you can expect to have for about 4 chapters at most.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[joshcja]

Laslow's still better than Rallyman though, since he can not only get even better strength and speed bonuses if you marry him to Azura or Selena and buddy him up with Keaton, but he can also, crucially, REPLICATE. And that is CRUCIAL whenever you're doing a split map, and there are plenty of maps that do that. Laslow's well worth the investment, especially since he starts becoming noticeably useful well before chapter 23.

Why would you ever torment Soliel with those pairings. She's way too good for that.

Laslow has a personal rally, this does not make him a good or even passable rallybot in-game. He's just a nice +1/+1 when you need it and an incredibly solid combat unit the rest of the time.

Edited July 29, 2016 by joshcja

[Alastor15243]

Why would you ever torment Soliel with those pairings. She's way too good for that.

Laslow has a personal rally, this does not make him a good or even passable rallybot in-game. He's just a nice +1/+1 when you need it and an incredibly solid combat unit the rest of the time.

Who cares about Soleil? She's hardly fantastic.

And no, his personal rally isn't what makes him a great rally bot. It's the fact that he can A+ Keaton for Rally Strength, get Rally Skill through simple promotion, get Rally Speed, Rally Defense, Rally Resistance or Rally Magic through marriage, get Rally Spectrum if you have the DLC, and finally get Replicate so that he can use these rallies in two places at once.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Alastor15243

[TheWerdna]

Why would you ever torment Soliel with those pairings. She's way too good for that.

Laslow has a personal rally, this does not make him a good or even passable rallybot in-game. He's just a nice +1/+1 when you need it and an incredibly solid combat unit the rest of the time.

The thing is his rally stacks with other rallys. So inherently he is a stronger rally bot than others.

[joshcja]

The thing is his rally stacks with other rallys. So inherently he is a stronger rally bot than others.

Yes, in postgame, where you get 5 deployment slots and laslow isn't one of them.

Who cares about Soleil? She's hardly fantastic.

And no, his personal rally isn't what makes him a great rally bot. It's the fact that he can A+ Keaton for Rally Strength, get Rally Skill through simple promotion, get Rally Speed, Rally Defense, Rally Resistance or Rally Magic through marriage, get Rally Spectrum if you have the DLC, and finally get Replicate so that he can use these rallies in two places at once.

I agree, Selena!Soliel is only significantly above average rather than fantastic.

Yes, marry Laslow to 4 people at once, that is how the game works.

Edited July 29, 2016 by joshcja

[Experiment 626]

Okay, so besides the Child bosses, Haitaka/Kumeraga & Daniela, there's 'Rallyman'.

Do those Falcon Knights have Pass on Hard difficulty, or is it Lunatic exclusive?

Also, holy crap, you can capture generics in regular skirmishes?!

Are there any generic Diviner/Basara or Ninja Master enemies on Conquest? Or is it better to go start a Birthright/Rev file on Hard difficulty and hope for some better generics to spawn as skirmish bosses?

[Alastor15243]

Yes, marry Laslow to 4 people at once, that is how the game works.

Who cares about Soleil? She's hardly fantastic.

And no, his personal rally isn't what makes him a great rally bot. It's the fact that he can A+ Keaton for Rally Strength, get Rally Skill through simple promotion, get Rally Speed, Rally Defense, Rally Resistance OR Rally Magic through marriage, get Rally Spectrum if you have the DLC, and finally get Replicate so that he can use these rallies in two places at once.

Please remember to read carefully before assuming the person you're talking to is an idiot.

And besides, the fact that he has all of those marriage options also means that you can buy all of these rallies to have on him at once via My Castle battles, even if he can't get all of them at once solely through class changing on one file.

We're talking +5 or even +7 strength and speed bonuses for basically your entire army even if you split it in two. Rallyman can't hope to do that. Plus, while Laslow can be brought to that kind of performance by chapter 23 if you know what you're doing, he'll be a useful rally bot well before then, meaning he vastly trumps rallyman in availability.

[joshcja]

Please remember to read carefully before assuming the person you're talking to is an idiot.

And besides, the fact that he has all of those marriage options also means that you can buy all of these rallies to have on him at once via My Castle battles, even if he can't get all of them at once solely through class changing on one file.

We're talking +5 or even +7 strength and speed bonuses for basically your entire army even if you split it in two. Rallyman can't hope to do that. Plus, while Laslow can be brought to that kind of performance by chapter 23 if you know what you're doing, he'll be a useful rally bot well before then, meaning he vastly trumps rallyman in availability.

We know you can skill buy, and yes you are an idiot if you think heavy grinding and skill buying to make a build work makes it remotely viable. Nobody discusses skill buying/grinding because nothing matters if you do this fuckign nyx is viable in that setting. I'm sure its fun for you but nothing matters if you go to that level of overkill. Also rallybot laslow is not hitting level 15 pre 23 without boo camp grinding or being fed multiple child paralouges. That's the domain of MCU's and the fast exp group (pre-promotes/kids).

To be clear the only use of the rallymaster is room 1 and room 3 of ch26 in nogrind limited to no DLC CQ lunatic. That's the only reason you get him. Between the mess hall, tonics, laslows inherent rally, pairup and freeby level 5 rallys you're already stacking 10+ points on any given stat as needed. Rallymaster is only captured and fielded because ch26 requires every single combat unit and staff user to be free and active on player phase if you're not cheesing it with Ophelia.

Similarly the pass falco is kidnapped for the one turn clear of ch28, that's it, they see a combined total usage of 3 turns.

You capture them because not having to build those skillsets free's up a truely stupid amount of resources.

Edited July 29, 2016 by joshcja

[Alastor15243]

We know you can skill buy, and yes you are an idiot if you think heavy grinding and skill buying to make a build work makes it remotely viable. Nobody discusses skill buying/grinding because nothing matters if you do this fuckign nyx is viable in that setting. I'm sure its fun for you but nothing matters if you go to that level of overkill. Also rallybot laslow is not hitting level 15 pre 23 without boo camp grinding or being fed multiple child paralouges. That's the domain of MCU's and the fast exp group (pre-promotes/kids).

To be clear the only use of the rallymaster is room 1 and room 3 of ch26 in nogrind limited to no DLC CQ lunatic. That's the only reason you get him.

Again, you misunderstand. I got Laslow to level 15 mechanist with Rally Strength, Rally Speed, and Rally Skill without any grinding by the beginning of chapter 23 just through careful use of pairings and paralogues. And yes, I was doing hard mode, but I was also doing ironman, and Fuga's Wild Ride was with a 15 or so turn limit. I only mentioned skill buying because you sounded like you were under the impression that getting all of those rallies was impossible. My point was that a, and most importantly, that's not what I said, and b, even if it was, it's still technically possible. Point b was an afterthought and it's not what I used.

I haven't beaten lunatic Nohr yet, I will concede, so can you explain to me that last sentence I quoted from you? I don't get how that's the only place where such a thing is useful. I regularly relied on Laslow after I got him up to speed in order to keep the rest of my party capable of one-rounding my foes, I don't see how that's only useful in two rooms.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Alastor15243

[joshcja]

Again, you misunderstand. I got Laslow to level 15 mechanist with Rally Strength, Rally Speed, Rally without any grinding by the beginning of chapter 23 just through careful use of pairings and paralogues. And yes, I was doing hard mode, but I was also doing ironman, and Fuga's Wild Ride was with a 15 or so turn limit. I only mentioned skill buying because you sounded like you were under the impression that getting all of those rallies was impossible. My point was that a, and most importantly, that's not what I said, and b, even if it was, it's still technically possible. Point b was an afterthought and it's not what I used.

I haven't beaten lunatic Nohr yet, I will concede, so can you explain to me that last sentence I quoted from you? I don't get how that's the only place where such a thing is useful. I regularly relied on Laslow after I got him up to speed in order to keep the rest of my party capable of one-rounding my foes, I don't see how that's only useful in two rooms.

That would be because you fed multiple paralouges of EXP into a rallybot instead of building a speed+str rally kid. Also you probably used Effie who just ruins the early exp curve and needsheavy invest to one rounds things along with Leo and Xander who need heavy invest before the stop being bad at one rounding things. It's a trap everyone falls for at least once.

Also rallybot laslow is not hitting level 15 pre 23 without boo camp grinding or being fed multiple child paralouges.

You are projecting your personal issues with reading comprehension

Edited July 29, 2016 by joshcja

[Alastor15243]

That would be because you fed multiple paralouges of EXP into a rallybot instead of building a speed+str rally kid. Also you probably used Effie who just ruins the early exp curve and needsheavy invest to one rounds things along with Leo and Xander who need heavy invest before the stop being bad at one rounding things. It's a trap everyone falls for at least once.

You are projecting your personal issues with reading comprehension

You didn't answer my question about why those two rooms in particular are why Rallyman is so important, and no, I didn't "feed" Laslow multiple paralogues. I only fed him one and had him participate to a significant degree in two. I still had Dwyer, Velouria, Soleil, Siegbert, and Forrest's paralogues for everyone else, which were not required to get him to that level.

And no, I never used Effie, and Leo and Xander had no problems doubling thanks to pairing them up with Felicia and Selena, with some help from Laslow.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Alastor15243

[joshcja]

You didn't answer my question about why those two rooms in particular are why Rallyman is so important, and no, I didn't "feed" Laslow multiple paralogues. I only fed him one and had him participate to a significant degree in two. I still had Dwyer, Velouria, Soleil, Siegbert, and Forrest's paralogues for everyone else, which were not required to get him to that level.

The rallymaster is used for those 2 rooms (and I guess the side halls of ch25???) because the map is extremely cramped player phase dependant. Also the game gives you a truly excessive number of deployment slots so fielding rallyman is free.

Dedicating 3 units to let 2 units ORKO is pretty hefty invest, (Or 2 units and rallybot utility). This isn't a big deal for shitlords like harlot, nyx, and keaton who are 100% in the game to be pairup bots. But Lalsow and Selena are legitimately good at ORKOing things outside of gaurd stance as a master ninja/dread fighter/bow knight and Kinshi Knight/Bowknight all game long.

Laslow/Soliel are also complete EP monsters in guard stance in the mid to lategame thanks to sol 1-2 range and inherent double breakers while Selena is... a nearly free flying/riding bow in conquest with inherent sword rank.

Edited July 29, 2016 by joshcja

[Alastor15243]

The rallymaster is used for those 2 rooms (and I guess the side halls of ch25???) because the map is extremely cramped player phase dependant. Also the game gives you a truly excessive number of deployment slots so fielding rallyman is free.

Alright, thanks. one more question: if you're talking about lunatic nogrind, no dlc, no my castle visits... how do you get Rallyman in a timely manner without intentionally waiting several days real-time? Without the free resources from castle visits to bribe him with I mean. I mean it's highly doubtful that random My Castle pickups and arena abuse will be enough to do the whole job unless you intentionally save up just for that.

[Katie]

Lithis and Salem.

[Avalanche]

Salem is my favorite Fates Staffbot.