All Female Units cliché/fantasm list.

[WinterOkami]

Ah. The English version said:

Perhaps the French localizers just took "back" in the dirtiest possible way.

Dang, I told myself I would STOP talking about Azura's butt

No wonder why it's a cliché to think french men are perverted. I double checked just so we can compare a little

Corrin: Je suis vraiment navré, Azura. Je suis venu pour te parler et... Je n'ai rien vu, je te le jure !

Azura: Rien du tout ? J'avais l'impression qu'on m'épiait avant que tu ne te déclares...

Corrin : Eh bien... D'accord j'ai peut-être vu le bas du dos. Mais juste un instant!

Azura : ...

Corrin : Tu est tellement belle, Azura, je n'ai pas pu détourner mon regard.

Azura: Mais épier quelqu'un qui prend un bain, c'est vraiment... Grr.

There we go but man are the french translators perverted.

[WinterOkami]

It's so great to have record support conversations recorded in the game that way you can to talk with fellow fans about it.

[Water Mage]

why does Japan love that trope? To me Tsunderes are either somewhat amusing, or just annoying.

Read the Hot Spring DLC conversation between Severa and Female Morgan.

Morgan actually gives a good reason as to why Tsunderes are popular.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Water Mage

[RoyLKing]

I don't know why people think of shy when they think of Sakura, I mean Sakura can be pretty brave, selfless, and mature too, and she has her own interests too like her love for chocolate and her playing the Koto (Even though the Koto is only mentioned once in her support with Elise)

And it's not like her shyness is overexerted, she can talked freely with people like Saizo and Hayato, she'll usually be a bit shy around new people that are much taller or older than her, like in her support with Xander, which is pretty understandable too. Even then, most of her supports won't be about being shy.

I won't say much about the Oni-chan stuff, but Elise does fit in the oni-chan category at least she isn't a copy paste Lissa, and I like Lissa.

Edited August 24, 2016 by RoyLKing

[Lightchao42]

He is just a lucky boy like Chrom with Female Robin. It's an accident after all! It reminds me of a common thing which happens in a lot of animes where a male character looks at a female character bathing or changing her clothes by accident.

Not sure why they changed the back/lower back thing but it doesn't seem to matter much since Azura said that he was around for a bit and then he told her that she's beautiful after Azura says nothing about the lower back/back comment so he probably saw other things.

At least Corrin and Azura didn't fall in love because they saw each other naked...

But Corrin is sweet so I'll try not to blame him too much for being distracted by such things.

No wonder why it's a cliché to think french men are perverted. I double checked just so we can compare a little

Corrin: Je suis vraiment navré, Azura. Je suis venu pour te parler et... Je n'ai rien vu, je te le jure !

Azura: Rien du tout ? J'avais l'impression qu'on m'épiait avant que tu ne te déclares...

Corrin : Eh bien... D'accord j'ai peut-être vu le bas du dos. Mais juste un instant!

Azura : ...

Corrin : Tu est tellement belle, Azura, je n'ai pas pu détourner mon regard.

Azura: Mais épier quelqu'un qui prend un bain, c'est vraiment... Grr.

There we go but man are the french translators perverted.

From what I can tell, aside from Corrin seeing Azura's butt instead of her back (and the translators being perverted) the conversation is largely the same. Hooray for comparing different translations. How did we start talking about this again?

Read the Hot Spring DLC conversation between Severa and Female Morgan.

Morgan actually gives a good reason as to why Tsunderes are popular.

For the lazy, here's said conversation:

Morgan: Aw, we can take it, Severa. Trust me! We all love you! So stop worrying.

Severa: Oh, brother. You could at least TRY to make it believable, you know.

Morgan: It's the truth! Besides, don't you know? Girls like you are all the rage these days! Especially with the boys... *wink*

Severa: What?! ...R-really?

Morgan: Sure! Tough as nails on the outside, with an ooey, gooey damsel-in-distress core... Always cross and short-tempered, making every smile shine like a rare gem... Apparently that's what the guys are into as of late. Who knew?!

Severa: That sounds like torture to me. Not that I'm complaining, I suppose...

Morgan: It's like how a sunny day after a long stretch of rain is super refreshing! Ooh, or how a nice, hot meal tastes even better when you're really, really hungry!

Severa: Hmm. I guess that kinda makes sen— ...Wait a minute. You're comparing me to floods and starvation?! Are you mocking me?!

Morgan: No, not at all! And even if you don't believe me about the others, at least you've got me?

Edited August 24, 2016 by Lightchao42

[WinterOkami]

I don't know why people think of shy when they think of Sakura, I mean Sakura can be pretty brave, selfless, and mature too, and she has her own interests too like her love for chocolate and her playing the Koto (Even though the Koto is only mentioned once in her support with Elise)

And it's not like her shyness is overexerted, she can talked freely with people like Saizo and Hayato, she'll usually be a bit shy around new people that are much taller or older than her, like in her support with Xander, which is pretty understandable too. Even then, most of her supports won't be about being shy.

I won't say much about the Oni-chan stuff, but Elise does fit in the oni-chan category at least she isn't a copy paste Lissa, and I like Lissa.

It's the blushes, and I talk more regarding supports with Corrin in general. Though I wouldn't mind if Elise was like Lissa it would feel weird because Lissa isn't underaged and her being my waifu in awakening.

[Abvora]

He is just a lucky boy like Chrom with Female Robin. It's an accident after all! It reminds me of a common thing which happens in a lot of animes where a male character looks at a female character bathing or changing her clothes by accident.

At least Corrin and Azura didn't fall in love because they saw each other naked...

But Corrin is sweet so I'll try not to blame him too much for being distracted by such things.

It's sad when half an S-support manages to be better and more tasteful (no "KYAAAAAAAH", no throwing; seriously, kudos to IntSys for resisting that overused and irritating cliche) than an entire support chain.

The dude's been locked in a tower his whole life where the only girls around were his sisters and his servants, and now he's confronted with the naked body of the woman he loves. I'm not surprised he peeked. Doesn't make it okay, of course, but it's understandable and still better than Chrobin.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Abvora

[RoyLKing]

I'm not a supporter of Azura X Corrin, mainly because Azura acts so generic towards her love toward corrin and her My House quotes are pretty generic that it makes me wanna skip it, even Beruka has better My House quotes, and I like Beruka's.

[Thane]

Yeah, well apparently the blog I linked doesn't even talk about them much. I just read that one page I linked, thought it was very informative and interesting, and decided to see what else it had since I just referred to you. It does not have much really. Most of it seem to be looking into scenes from manga and anime too much, and some just seem to be dramatically summarizing the implications of a scene. Like they weren't easy to pick up on. Rarely does it examine themes that show up in Anime, like yandere or the obvious tsundere trope. Seriously, why does Japan love that trope? To me Tsunderes are either somewhat amusing, or just annoying.

Oh sure it was interesting, but nothing I haven't heard before already. Honestly, as weird as it is to say, I'd say that the fascination with incest in Japanese media is one of the easier things to understand when compared to like monster girls, but maybe that's just me. Edit: and by that I mean there are explanations that make sense, not that I'm into that sort of thing.

Also, about tsunderes: how character tropes work in the story, much like everything else, depend entirely on the execution and the skill of the writer. Some writers think that making a a character a tsundere is enough of a trait to make them interesting when that's just not the case. I've never liked Fate/Stay night for a wide variety of reasons, but Rin Tohsaka, one of the main characters, is pretty much the one who popularized the trope, and she's pretty damn interesting and entertaining. Her being a tsundere is just an aspect of her character and not all of it. The writers had enough sense to give her other appealing traits as well.

Japan sure is an interesting country, right?

Sure is. I was there for three months but it wasn't enough to actually get to know the country on a meaningful level. I wish I had enough knowledge about these sort of things that I could contribute with a lot more information, but I don't.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Thane

[NekoKnight]

I think it's a huge disservice to Oboro's character to lump her in with "Notice me senpai". She has a crush on Takumi but it's hardly central to her character like being a yandere is central to Camilla. Even for Caeldori, her character falls more into "perfect class rep" than shy love-struck girl.

Holy smokes. For a country with such a low birth rate and where the lack of interest in real romantic relationships is a nation-wide problem, Japan sure has a lot of strange tropes and fetishes.

Who's not to say the two are related? I read a blog once that speculated the reason incest shows up a lot in Anime is because some writers wonder what it would be like to grow up with a sibling, and write such things to satisfy their curiosity. I'll PM you the link to the blog.

Incoming small rant

I won't say they (that is, weird fetishes + societal problems) are completely unrelated, as they belong to the same culture, but I think it's a stretch to infer there is a decline in 'normal' relationships because Japan is "into some weird fetishes". For starters, anime is still a niche interest, not something your typical working adult is going to be heavily invested in. It's hard to imagine "furry", "tsundere" and "incest" being mainstream interests.

If you want to blame the low birthrate and lack of romance on anything, I'd say it's because of an outdated work ethic that demands extremely hard work minus the equivalent financial rewards. Raising children and romance hit the back-burner when people are already married to their jobs.

[Emerson]

I think it's a huge disservice to Oboro's character to lump her in with "Notice me senpai". She has a crush on Takumi but it's hardly central to her character like being a yandere is central to Camilla. Even for Caeldori, her character falls more into "perfect class rep" than shy love-struck girl.

Incoming small rant

I won't say they (that is, weird fetishes + societal problems) are completely unrelated, as they belong to the same culture, but I think it's a stretch to infer there is a decline in 'normal' relationships because Japan is "into some weird fetishes". For starters, anime is still a niche interest, not something your typical working adult is going to be heavily invested in. It's hard to imagine "furry", "tsundere" and "incest" being mainstream interests.

If you want to blame the low birthrate and lack of romance on anything, I'd say it's because of an outdated work ethic that demands extremely hard work minus the equivalent financial rewards. Raising children and romance hit the back-burner when people are already married to their jobs.

I agree with that first statement. Also, yeah, it was a little bit of a stretch to put her in that. I guess it's not the most central part of her character.

Edited August 24, 2016 by TrueEm

[RedRob]

I won't say they (that is, weird fetishes + societal problems) are completely unrelated, as they belong to the same culture, but I think it's a stretch to infer there is a decline in 'normal' relationships because Japan is "into some weird fetishes". For starters, anime is still a niche interest, not something your typical working adult is going to be heavily invested in. It's hard to imagine "furry", "tsundere" and "incest" being mainstream interests.

If you want to blame the low birthrate and lack of romance on anything, I'd say it's because of an outdated work ethic that demands extremely hard work minus the equivalent financial rewards. Raising children and romance hit the back-burner when people are already married to their jobs.

If an industry where nearly everything gets a figurine, game, and who knows what else is niche, I hate to see what merchandise a mainstream industry has.

Back to being serious, I was saying the low birth rate might be a factor as for why incest is a semi-common theme in Japan, and such. I would say the fetishes are due to a lack of normal relationships, not the other way around. If people are too busy with work for romance, it doesn't surprise me that some turn to a cheap, fantasied version of romance (i.e "waifus") to de-stress.

[NekoKnight]

If an industry where nearly everything gets a figurine, game, and who knows what else is niche, I hate to see what merchandise a mainstream industry has.

Back to being serious, I was saying the low birth rate might be a factor as for why incest is a semi-common theme in Japan, and such. I would say the fetishes are due to a lack of normal relationships, not the other way around. If people are too busy with work for romance, it doesn't surprise me that some turn to a cheap, fantasied version of romance (i.e "waifus") to de-stress.

Fair enough, I thought that's what you meant, but Thane's original statement was a little ambiguous.

Concerning fetishes, I don't think Japanese people are especially weird. Everyone has fetishes (or 'preferences', if you prefer the term), the only difference is the relative ease of finding media that caters to these fetishes. Waifuism and all the weird tropes born from fantasty are internationally popular.

[eclipse]

Kagero? Chaste? Her support with Saizo disagrees.

[Time the Crestfallen]

You called Azura the perfect waifu. Regardless of your intention, you get infinite brownie points with me.

Anyway, I don't think cliches, archetypes or even fetishes applying to character is necessarily a bad thing. It's a bread and butter in my opinion. Characters live and die by what distinguishes them from other characters of that cliche/archetype/fetish.

How this conversation became about fetishes is beyond me though.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Phillius

[Thane]

Fair enough, I thought that's what you meant, but Thane's original statement was a little ambiguous.

Concerning fetishes, I don't think Japanese people are especially weird. Everyone has fetishes (or 'preferences', if you prefer the term), the only difference is the relative ease of finding media that caters to these fetishes. Waifuism and all the weird tropes born from fantasty are internationally popular.

Ah, sorry, I was just joking a little and wrote a more serious post later.

Waifus and weird tropes may be internationally popular, but there's a reason why so many of them originate from Japan. Of course, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but the oversaturation of certain tropes and relying on a familiarty factor as opposed to trying something new is not good for anyone.

I think Miyazaki was onto something when he said that there's a problem in the industry in that many of the people behind certain shows or series don't interact with other people and create things that appeal to them regardless of realism.

Anyway, I don't think cliches, archetypes or even fetishes applying to character is necessarily a bad thing. It's a bread and butter in my opinion. Characters live and die by what distinguishes them from other characters of that cliche/archetype/fetish.

I agree. It's impossible to not rely on certain tropes, but it's not impossible to use them in creative ways or make them feel new and fresh.

[The Geek]

If an industry where nearly everything gets a figurine, game, and who knows what else is niche, I hate to see what merchandise a mainstream industry has.

This has more to do with the fact that the particular fanbase that this merchandise is being made for have no qualms about spending tons of money on this stuff (believe me, I have some friends who go absolutely crazy when it comes to this stuff). So while it doesn't appeal to a majority of Japanese people, there is still a whole lot of demand.

It's basically the same as the comic book industry in the US which, while not enjoyed by the majority of people, still produces tons of merchandise.

[NekoKnight]

This has more to do with the fact that the particular fanbase that this merchandise is being made for have no qualms about spending tons of money on this stuff (believe me, I have some friends who go absolutely crazy when it comes to this stuff). So while it doesn't appeal to a majority of Japanese people, there is still a whole lot of demand.

It's basically the same as the comic book industry in the US which, while not enjoyed by the majority of people, still produces tons of merchandise.

This is especially apparent in the pricing model of anime DVDs and BluRay in Japan. It's practically criminal how expensive they are but people in the industry know that otaku will pay the price.

[WinterOkami]

I think it's a huge disservice to Oboro's character to lump her in with "Notice me senpai". She has a crush on Takumi but it's hardly central to her character like being a yandere is central to Camilla. Even for Caeldori, her character falls more into "perfect class rep" than shy love-struck girl.

I get your point but she still wishes acknowledgment from Takumi, her main trait is being a that girl over obsessed with Fashion therefore I'll update my list.

Kagero? Chaste? Her support with Saizo disagrees.

Thanks a lot, I'll look into it and update later

[WinterOkami]

So what I get is that Saizo and Kagero interacted so much together that it ended having them miss out on their retainers'duty.

I'll need to research stuff a bit more on that.

Also sorry for the double post I got in a rush

Edited August 25, 2016 by WinterOkami

[NoMommaGarchomp]

Azura - The perfect Waifu

I'd rather waifu King Dodongo and Kishuna than Azura.

Azura X Arthur is much better

[shadowofchaos]

Holy smokes. For a country with such a low birth rate and where the lack of interest in real romantic relationships is a nation-wide problem, Japan sure has a lot of strange tropes and fetishes.

It's one of the most sexed up countries in the world.

[WinterOkami]

I'd rather waifu King Dodongo and Kishuna than Azura.

Azura X Arthur is much better

When I say the perfect waifu it's because she is a dream wife from the perspective of men seeking the perfect partner and not my personal favorite

Edited August 25, 2016 by WinterOkami

[Water Mage]

When I say the perfect waifu it's because she is a dream wife from the perspective of men seeking the perfect partner and not my personal favorite

Really?

Azura doesn't really seem the perfect wife to me.

While she's a nice person, she's also a loner by nature and difficult to deal with. She also bad at dealing with energetic and cheery people like Elise and Keaton.

She's also got a very low self-esteem, blames herself a lot, and tend keep her troubles to herself.

Azura can be a really good person, but she has flaws that keep her from being the perfect wife.

[Abvora]

Really?

Azura doesn't really seem the perfect wife to me.

While she's a nice person, she's also a loner by nature and difficult to deal with. She also bad at dealing with energetic and cheery people like Elise and Keaton.

She's also got a very low self-esteem, blames herself a lot, and tend keep her troubles to herself.

Azura can be a really good person, but she has flaws that keep her from being the perfect wife.

Agreed. She doesn't have quite the same level of emotional baggage as Takumi and Leo, but her potential husband would have to be very patient and encouraging to deal with her.