Time the Crestfallen Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) There's a whole, very depressing subreddit for some of these mind-boggling interactions. Here's just one, albeit unusually bad, out of many: http://i.imgur.com/YCeJrqZ.png Here's the reddit by the way, appropriately titled r/NiceGuys. I even set it to top of all time for your viewing pleasure because I'm such a nice guy. Makes me wonder why I can't find a gf. Bitches man... https://www.reddit.com/r/niceguys/top/?sort=top&t=all Edited September 13, 2016 by Phillius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 As much as that subreddit creeps me out, I'll let it go for now (if anyone that's more familiar with it can make a case for why I should get rid of it, do so via the ticket system). Don't go further down that rabbit hole, because it ends badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 As much as that subreddit creeps me out, I'll let it go for now (if anyone that's more familiar with it can make a case for why I should get rid of it, do so via the ticket system). Don't go further down that rabbit hole, because it ends badly. It's a creepy subreddit, but at least it's not redpill - redpillers are the people who have gone beyond the nice guy phase and actively hate on women and come up with ludricrous conspiracy theories as to why they don't get laid. It's just one of the reasons as to why I think you can't just excuse nice guy behavior. Obviously not all of them will become a redpiller or whatever they refer to themselves as, but the danger is there, and the sooner someone tells them they've got a skewed view of people - especially women - the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) It's a creepy subreddit, but at least it's not redpill - redpillers are the people who have gone beyond the nice guy phase and actively hate on women and come up with ludricrous conspiracy theories as to why they don't get laid. It's just one of the reasons as to why I think you can't just excuse nice guy behavior. Obviously not all of them will become a redpiller or whatever they refer to themselves as, but the danger is there, and the sooner someone tells them they've got a skewed view of people - especially women - the better. Really? I thought it was like SRS or Tumblrinaction i.e. finding stupid/cringeworthy/digusting/otherwise deplorable behaviour and making fun of it. Did I miss something obvious? Edited September 13, 2016 by Phillius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Really? I thought it was like SRS or Tumblrinaction i.e. finding stupid/cringeworthy/digusting/otherwise deplorable behaviour and making fun of it. Did I miss something obvious? Ah, no I meant because of the type of content it deals with. The people commenting are surprisingly well-mannered, helpful and sympathetic most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Ah, no I meant because of the type of content it deals with. The people commenting are surprisingly well-mannered, helpful and sympathetic most of the time. Ah, gottcha. You have me nervous there for a second. Thought I'd linked to an r/redpill off-shot by accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) I see a lot of people wanting to excuse these people. Keep in mind they're not all just harmless teenagers; a lot of them are adults as well. However, even when you're 15, you should know better than to try to manipulate people for your own selfish needs and desires. I can sympathize with these people, and I believe a lot of them just need a wake-up call, but to say it's somehow society's fault is irresponsible and trivializes how bad some of these individuals can get. I suppose as bad as Elliot Rodger, that guy who went on a killing spree 2 years ago as an act of "revenge against humanity" for being a virgin at age 22. "I don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me, but I will punish you all for it. It's an injustice, a crime, because... I don't know what you don't see in me. I'm the perfect guy and yet you throw yourselves at these obnoxious men instead of me, the supreme gentleman." Edited September 13, 2016 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 The thing is though, in the modern era, it's more complicated than ever to find a girlfriend, but at this same time we also have influences like say, internet porn coming on the rise, so a lot of these don't even become "redpills" and instead just resign and end up preferring the fantasy of women to the real thing, and never bothering to attain it. And, if anything that hits women the most, as they'll be left unsatisfied and only the most brash of males will be the ones putting themselves out there It is? I was under the impression that things like online dating had made it so that people who'd otherwise never meet or maybe even go out find love. There are also less moral restrictions and societal pressure involved, at least in the Western world. It has also led to people who used to be oppressed for their sexualities can find each other more easily. It's also cheaper than ever to fly to the other side of the world in case you meet someone online or during a visit there, etc. The list goes on and on. Why would you say it's more complicated than ever to find a partner? I just don't see it. Yes, while nice guy syndrome is manipulative and selfish, it does have a root, and sometimes that root isn't even conscious decisions from the male itself. These habits are conditioned by society. and in age of decreasing "masculine values" many males simply don't know how they're supposed to act, and they opt for just the basest level of kindness, since it's the only thing that can come natural. And after one scathing rejection, it's very hard to get the motivation to reform yourself, instead of blame the women. This is just all part of growing up. You WILL be rejected, and you WILL face hardships. You're allowed be angry, feel hurt, cry and what have you, but blaming others for not liking you is the mark of a petulant child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) I suppose as bad as Elliot Rodger, that guy who went on a killing spree 2 years ago as an act of "revenge against humanity" for being a virgin at age 22. He was also incredibly racist and, if I remember correctly, also wanted to hurt men who were more sexually active than him. But wasn't he also mentally ill? Undeniably, he had some fucked up attitudes towards a lot of things, but unless I'm remembering incorrectly it had more to do with mental illness than his 'nice guy'-ness. Edited September 13, 2016 by Phillius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Heh, this topic coming up in a fire emblem forum, when the newest game is basically a cockstroking of the nice guy and the damned romantic supports where everyone likes him for being supposedly nice. At the same time, reading Brightbow signature with such awesome speeches from the series, makes one think. Back on the topic. Back in school, when I was 15, I tried my best to be nice and a good friend of everyone, not just girls, but every person I met in general, talked a lot, always went to greet them, wherever I'd meet, most likely because of loneliness, I lived really far from the city, no neighbors except my cousin. But then, some time later I noticed most of them, including girls were mostly abusing my behavior, so that made me fucking angry, lol, then I started being outright rude to most, except some that were nice to me as well. I stayed with that attitude up to later 17 to early 18, where I just said, fuck it, I don't need to be nice, but no need to be rude too. And, well, things got going for me around that time. Found a nice girl, started dating and all. And, as I grew older, I realized, there are people that are going to suck, no matter what you do and there are also people that are going to be really good to you, if you just be yourself. I could say that there are people that are going to be good no matter what, but I don't believe so, at some moment they're going to learn their lesson. I don't know if it gets in the topic, as the OP wanted, but I wanted to share my point and story of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 He was also incredibly racist and, if I remember correctly, also wanted to hurt men who were more sexually active than him. But wasn't he also mentally ill? Undeniably, he had some fucked up attitudes towards a lot of things, but unless I'm remembering correctly it had more to do with mental illness than his 'nice guy'-ness. He was a seriously disturbed individual. Someone doesn't write a 100k word manifesto about how they hate all of humanity (but especially women) just because they got rejected a few times. I don't know if it gets in the topic, as the OP wanted, but I wanted to share my point and story of this. Nah, you're good fam. Your story is actually pretty common for young men, growing up and figuring themselves out. Part of getting out of the 'nice guy' rut is to stop being a people-pleaser and focus on the people you can actually relate to. People will like you more if you are self-reliant and confident, as opposed to sycophantic and clingy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNLEASH IT Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I suppose as bad as Elliot Rodger, that guy who went on a killing spree 2 years ago as an act of "revenge against humanity" for being a virgin at age 22. "I don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me, but I will punish you all for it. It's an injustice, a crime, because... I don't know what you don't see in me. I'm the perfect guy and yet you throw yourselves at these obnoxious men instead of me, the supreme gentleman." hehehehe, still makes me laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 He was a seriously disturbed individual. Someone doesn't write a 100k word manifesto about how they hate all of humanity (but especially women) just because they got rejected a few times. When you only notice a spelling error when someone quotes you T_T I did a quick search. He had many, many therapists despite never receiving a formal diagnosis and was given multiple prescriptions, including anti-psychotics, but he also was known to refuse to take his medication and rejected mental health care once he was 18~. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I'm a pretty bad driver, honestly. Although I don't think I'm particularly nice either, so maybe it fits!!!!^This poster is the nicest guy and the best driver I know^ I don't necessarily look for returns on favors I do people, but sometimes I'll form a less positive opinion of someone based on how they act if I do them a favor. I did very similar favors for 2 different people within the past week, and one person's attitude makes me much more likely to help them again than the other's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augestein Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 The nice guys we're talking about may help someone out without reciprocation, but that doesn't mean that's not what they're aiming for. Most nice guys I've known or read about are manipulative people who don't respect a girl's boundaries and think they can weasel their way into getting a reward for their basic human decency.Of course there are genuinely nice people who get taken advantage of by others, but that's really not what we're discussing here. Nice guys create some kind of favor-for-reward system in their minds and ignore the other person's autonomy and wishes in a vain attempt at trying to score. There's a whole, very depressing subreddit for some of these mind-boggling interactions. Here's just one, albeit unusually bad, out of many: http://i.imgur.com/YCeJrqZ.png Yeesh. That's terrible. That seems more like the person is already apt to be selfish from the start. Honestly, if they are all like that small little image you posted, they sound more like sociopaths that actually haven't had enough human interaction to become effective sociopaths... Which is an incredibly disturbing thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Honestly I think it's that guys are so actively going against their nature... that intense effort of being "nice" and getting rejected. That's when the "ugly face of nice guys" shows itself. As a human, you only have a limited capacity to care and have compassion for people. Not everyone is going to be a saint. Since these teenagers and adult "nice guys" put so much effort of themselves out there to try and be what they think they should be and get rejected... I think they'd feel some sort of betrayal. Especially if they tried to reach out to someone they thought was special. I mean I still think it's wrong, but I think that's what would be going through their head. I think it's a waste. My mentality would probably a little bit out there... but if you thought they were special and liked them, what changed to make them seem like an awful person in your eyes? Nothing. It was you. Forgive the bad analogy, but: It's like opinions about games, really. It's like if they tried a game you love with all your heart and they didn't like it. There's nothing you can do. Would you really hate a person over that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Yes, but our cultural attitudes about masculinity and feminity have gotten more complex. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's a good thing really, that we no longer have to put certain genders under certain expectations, but it comes with short term challenges. What I'm saying is, it used to be known how a man was supposed to act around a women, and vice versa. The man was to be strong, loyal and an emotional rock while the woman was to be demure, modest, emotionally attentive. This has little to do with nice guys. If anything, wouldn't they be the ones benefiting from gender roles being loosened up? Women are beginning to break free more powerfully of this expectation of how a women should act. Many are choosing to pursue careers, and delay marriage, or perhaps choose partners that they enjoy rather than what their parents are saying they should want in a man. Now for men though, it now becomes more confusing what face they're supposed to put on around women. Most people try to combine careers and family in the Western world, that goes for both men and women. It's not like all women are all career-driven now and men are left behind. Again, times have changed and adjusted to a new, modern dating scene. Nice guys can either try their hand at that or keep being manipulative and self-loathing people whose highest priority is trying futilely to get laid. Women are now much more dynamic creatures, with the freedom to express their desires (or their lack there of) and for men, it's very hard to keep up with all this for a long period of time and inevitable break up occurs. What? Divorce rates for example, are incredibly high right now. A little off topic, but the point remains the same, having a long term relationship with a women is more difficult. It was considered shameful to have children outside of marriages only a few decades ago, and in many countries divorces were really frowned upon or even straight up forbidden. That mentality has changed, and still is in many places, and that's why the rates are up; you've got more personal liberties and less societal pressure for both men and women. Most of the time it's just projection, deep down I feel many know that it is their fault, but they are projecting, because it is much easier to blame someone else than yourself. Sure, but that doesn't make what they're doing any better. A lot of them may be awkward teens trying to get their dicks wet, but a lot of them are manipulative adults who refuse to grow up and do a little introspection, and you can't blame the modern era for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moblin Major General Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 My shy and introverted nature often leads me to fear becoming on of these douches, but being that I know better, I haven't asked anyone out in order to let myself mature. Not sure if I'll still be offended, but I'm also expert at not expressing emotion, which may not be a good thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) "Nice guys" suck. Edited September 13, 2016 by Soul~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 speaking of elliot rodger (the "supreme gentleman"), has anyone read or at least seen excerpts from his autobiography? that guy is levels beyond nice guy he's actually narcissistic, seriously, it's crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Someone should tell them that a lot of the romantic gestures we see in the movies can be creepy in real life, especially if you're not already in an established relationship. Also, never letting someone be alone is even worse. Honestly, changing depictions of romance in the media would probably be a huge step in combating the 'nice guy' problem, amongst others. How many romantic comedies have one character (typically a man) constantly pester and badger the other character until the other character finally relents? I actually can't think of a single romcom in which the relationship depicted is an equal one - and we're supposed to laugh at the stalkerish behaviour, to boot. (Also I'll just say here that I agree with everything Thane's said thus far in this thread, to save time quoting him). Yes, but our cultural attitudes about masculinity and feminity have gotten more complex. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's a good thing really, that we no longer have to put certain genders under certain expectations, but it comes with short term challenges. What I'm saying is, it used to be known how a man was supposed to act around a women, and vice versa. The man was to be strong, loyal and an emotional rock while the woman was to be demure, modest, emotionally attentive. Women are beginning to break free more powerfully of this expectation of how a women should act. Many are choosing to pursue careers, and delay marriage, or perhaps choose partners that they enjoy rather than what their parents are saying they should want in a man. Now for men though, it now becomes more confusing what face they're supposed to put on around women. Women are now much more dynamic creatures, with the freedom to express their desires (or their lack there of) and for men, it's very hard to keep up with all this for a long period of time and inevitable break up occurs. It is very easy to get a girlfriend, have sex the following night, then stop talking to each other yes, but for actual long term relationships? Not so much, as our ideas of the other gender become increasingly skewed. Divorce rates for example, are incredibly high right now. A little off topic, but the point remains the same, having a long term relationship with a women is more difficult. Most of the time it's just projection, deep down I feel many know that it is their fault, but they are projecting, because it is much easier to blame someone else than yourself. I'd like to point out that today's divorce rate isn't really a sign that relationships are less successful, just that it's easier for people to escape bad relationships. And that's a great thing! My shy and introverted nature often leads me to fear becoming on of these douches, but being that I know better, I haven't asked anyone out in order to let myself mature. Not sure if I'll still be offended, but I'm also expert at not expressing emotion, which may not be a good thing... Definitely no shame in waiting, but just wanted to say that it really is as easy as 'being yourself'. And taking a no for a no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Not really, as "nice guys" are put into a more subservient state, they lose power. They have less power, and while it's acceptable socially for men to be passive, doesn't get you much when trying to get laid. They are not "put" anywhere, that's the thing; being a nice guy means you try to use your basic human decency as a way of getting laid. They often complain about the friendzone and how other people ruin it for them when really, people don't want to be around them because they're manipulative, insecure jerks. Again, this doesn't apply to everyone, but at the very least a good portion of them. [spoiler=Here's a picture explaining the situation] Did I say all women are choosing to pursue that? I'll give you a concrete example: Japan's birth rate. It is going into negatives, and enough women now prioritize their careers to the point that the country's population is going negative. In the US it is different yes, due to cultural institutions, but it's still much lower than it used to be. the fact of the matter is with industrialization and increased education and career opportunities for women, birth rates decline. Less families, and more short term relationships work out more conveniently. No, but I still don't understand what this has to do with nice guys. "Women are working" doesn't really translate to "now men have to manipulate women and worm their way through their personal space in order to meet someone". The problem of Japan's low birth rates is very complex and does most certainly not only stem from women starting to work. For one, it's very hard and expensive to get child care there, and many major companies still expect their employees to work an absurd amount of time, meaning they've got less time for personal interactions in general. Don't try to simplify such a multilayered topic. Also, again, how does this relate to nice guys? I'm really struggling to understand what you're trying to say here. yeah that was dumb of me to say, but you get the point that divorces are becoming more common etc Yes, because of the reasons I stated. It doesn't mean more relationships are bad, just that it's easier to leave them. This is not a point in your favor. Yes. And all those social changes were brought about through the modern social era and industrialization. What I'm trying to say is that there are external influences which play as large an influence as the individuals own characteristics. Of course it is malicious behavior that is the individual's responsibility to reform, but these issues I believe have a deeper source than just a few bad apples. We're all shaped by our surroundings. However, you put far too much blame on society, and I think you misrepresent the facts. Had you made an argument that we're more influenced by mass media than ever before and that some people don't cope well with the dissonance between what we see online or on TV and real life, then I would've been inclined to agree with you, but bringing up things like divorce rates and claiming that's somehow related to this is just straight up wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Karnage Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 guys I really do need help as I'm kind of a nice guy, but thats kind of the way I default to. I'm not acting nicly just to get laid, I just want to make friends right now I'm rushing a social fraternity so I can try to make some connections as someone who didn't learn to talk to people his age untill 15 I still have issues approaching people any advice on how to act normally, I think I've got this body language thing down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Karnage Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Try not to see conversations as something that you either succeed or fail in, don't go into conversations with any expectations of how things will go at all, and just relax. Would you say that you overthink things sometimes? Do you try to rehearse conversations in your head before you start? Do you spend all the time afterwards ruminating on every word you said? actually I do just that. Sometimes I say things that I either embaress my self or I think I embaressed myself, and I know I way overthink things. I also sometimes don't know how to keep the conversation going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I consider myself a "nice guy" but I don't expect reciprocation. I'm just the type of person who literally bends over backwards for someone if I like them and they ask it of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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