Debate Mark III

[YokaiKnight]

Don't forget that polls are mostly targeted towards young people, and a lot of which are through the internet. Studies show the majority of voters are over 40 or 50.

How many 40 or 50 year olds are surveyed in these polls? How many are active users of the internet?

Honestly polls aren't always right, as like I said polls are targeted towards younger people on the most part, and the majority of voters are older.

...and? I already know polls aren't always reliable. But if there's such a clear trend, it's more likely they're right. Did you have a different point?

[Cynthia]

...and? I already know polls aren't always reliable. But if there's such a clear trend, it's more likely they're right. Did you have a different point?

I knew several polls that said there was going to be an 8th Harry Potter, as fans all voted that they would like to see it, does that make it happen?

Hell it was a "clear trend," of people on this forum thinking Knife was dead, did that make it true? No, in fact only two people suggested he left because of Serenes Emblem, and everyone else either assumed he was dead, or the hurricane decimated his home, those two people were right over everyone else.

Does a bunch of young people wanting to see Obama as president make it happen? No, everyone helps decide. The point is it's irrelevant to post such things if they are unreliable, and you should stick to what is fact.

[YokaiKnight]

Hell it was a "clear trend," of people on this forum thinking Knife was dead, did that make it true? No, in fact only two people suggested he left because of Serenes Emblem, and everyone else either assumed he was dead, or the hurricane decimated his home, those two people were right over everyone else.

I haven't been here long enough for this to really make much sense to me. Sorry.

Does a bunch of young people wanting to see Obama as president make it happen? No, everyone helps decide.

Yeah, but you don't have any proof that these polls are almost entirely of young people except your word.

EDIT: Nor any proof that the majority of polls of voters over 40 would show McCain as the most popular choice.

The point is it's irrelevant to post such things if they are unreliable, and you should stick to what is fact.

Fact: Of at least 756 legitimate polling agencies, at least 718 of them recorded Obama as the victor. Even if you could somehow prove they were all worthless, how could you prove the the 40 or so that predicted McCain as the victor were worth more? Edited October 30, 2008 by YokaiKnight

[Meteor]

Polls are just educated guesses. I don't think either of you are trying to say otherwise.

[YokaiKnight]

Polls are just educated guesses. I don't think either of you are trying to say otherwise.

The difference is that I'm fairly confident they're right. ;)

[Liz]

RELEVANT

and its a bit far-fetched, that's for sure, but only to prove a point.

cheers!

[YokaiKnight]

RELEVANT

and its a bit far-fetched, that's for sure, but only to prove a point.

cheers!

Point taken, as you acknowledged it's far-fetched

[Doom103]

Are we still talking politics

[Meteor]

Yep, though it's strayed pretty far from the debate.

[Doom103]

Figured, so what do you guys think of Obama being accused of being a socialist

[YokaiKnight]

Figured, so what do you guys think of Obama being accused of being a socialist

Not true, but not surprising either. He's the Democratic candidate; anything he do which involves government spending for social programs is open to attack.

[sandmanccl]

The difference is that it's social programs designed to give tax payer money to people that don't pay taxes.

That's socialism.

[canas is back]

It's not just the Constitution, dude. Federal law is also supreme. If Federal law grants you a right not explicitly stated in the Constitution, that doesn't mean it violates the Constitution.

it does, if the federal laws don't follow what the constitution says they government can do then it's breaking the constitution, federal law is supreme only if it is within the bounds of the constitution, the framers set it up that way to prevent a power abuse.

[Leonri]

The difference is that it's social programs designed to give tax payer money to people that don't pay taxes.

That's socialism.

DO you consider socialism a bad thing?

[sandmanccl]

Yep. I think people deserve what they are able to get, no more, no less. If you're a high school dropout that got hooked to crystal meth and ended up homeless because of the bad decisions you've made in life, I feel no pity for you and don't think you deserve any of my money unless *I* give you that money.

[Leonri]

Yep. I think people deserve what they are able to get, no more, no less. If you're a high school dropout that got hooked to crystal meth and ended up homeless because of the bad decisions you've made in life, I feel no pity for you and don't think you deserve any of my money unless *I* give you that money.

If you were born into an poor family, who lost all their crops to a freak drought and lost there home whe you were a child, would you fell pity then? Does that child deserve our help? Socialism helps those who can't help themselves.

[YokaiKnight]

it does, if the federal laws don't follow what the constitution says they government can do then it's breaking the constitution, federal law is supreme only if it is within the bounds of the constitution, the framers set it up that way to prevent a power abuse.

I think you misunderstood me. It's not contradicting the Constitution to create legislature dealing with a subject the Constitution does not mention.

[sandmanccl]

If you were born into an poor family, who lost all their crops to a freak drought and lost there home whe you were a child, would you fell pity then? Does that child deserve our help? Socialism helps those who can't help themselves.

There's already government subsidiaries for farmers in situations like that.

I should say, I understand and see a point where government needs to step in and set up measures to help people, but trying to make all people equal through government action is not the way to go.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Yep. I think people deserve what they are able to get, no more, no less. If you're a high school dropout that got hooked to crystal meth and ended up homeless because of the bad decisions you've made in life, I feel no pity for you and don't think you deserve any of my money unless *I* give you that money.

So people should suffer fully for their mistakes? It's their fault and they need to deal with it? And you're fine if they deal with it by mugging people and stealing their money to buy more Meth, entering a deadly downard spiral, inevitably tying up police forces, and causing tragic and unnecessary harm to people? Just clarifying, that's all. Sometimes, the reasons for doing something aren't readily apparent.

How much experience do you have with people and drugs? You've said you're pretty well of, so I'm going to guess you have fairly little, but please tell me if I'm wrong.

[sandmanccl]

One of my best friend's older brother was addicted to cocaine for many years. A cousin from Utah is addicted to speed and meth. Former acquaintances from high school are in drug or alcohol rehab.

I feel no sympathy because I've been a loner my whole life and was tempted with drugs to fit in with a crowd once upon a time. I wanted so badly to be a part of something, but I still wouldn't let myself do drugs. Now half of them are dead or in jail, and while I'm struggling myself, at least it's not because of something self-imposed.

If you want help, that's fine. I'm sure there are ways to get government money for rehab as is. I'm just saying I don't think my money should be redistributed into the hands of people who don't work, aren't looking for work, and couldn't hold a job even if they found work.

edit: For the record, I would benefit under some of Obama's plans, in the sense I'm extremely low income. The difference I have with most other people in my situation is that I've still got a bed to sleep in because I was blessed with a hard working family. I don't think I deserve money from the government for things I haven't done, and I don't want my dreams of eventually being somebody who's well off and can enjoy what I've earned taken away.

Edited October 31, 2008 by sandmanccl

[bunny: spider bitten]

I knew several polls that said there was going to be an 8th Harry Potter, as fans all voted that they would like to see it, does that make it happen?

Hell it was a "clear trend," of people on this forum thinking Knife was dead, did that make it true? No, in fact only two people suggested he left because of Serenes Emblem, and everyone else either assumed he was dead, or the hurricane decimated his home, those two people were right over everyone else.

Does a bunch of young people wanting to see Obama as president make it happen? No, everyone helps decide. The point is it's irrelevant to post such things if they are unreliable, and you should stick to what is fact.

There could be an eighth Harry Potter. Rowling isn't having much luck elsewhere.

[Cynthia]

On a different subject I just want to say something to Sandmanccl.

Any particular reason you speak as if you're 40? You're only 22 and yet you talk as though you have several decades of experience over some of us. You talk about not being able to vote due to age, and yet you've only had the ability to vote once.

Not to sound rude, but you really do seem to talk over us all as if your age means you're more experienced and wiser sometimes, when really you're young enough to have gone to school with me. I don't think the few years you have on everyone here counts for as much as you make it out to be at times.

You've only been in the adult world for a short time compared to the people who are out there, yet you seem to have a strong opinion on where you want your money to go, and who deserves what, when you have barely experienced the hardships of the adult world first hand.

Not to be disrespectful, but I honestly doubt you have that much experience in what it's like in the world outside is like so far, yet at times I get the impression you've seen it all.

Not to mention I've seen you say things along the lines of, "when you're older you'll understand."

In the utmost respect I say that you don't really have THAT much more experience than everyone, and I'm sure there are people who have more than yourself.

I'm not saying you've claimed you did, but I am saying your attitude towards these subjects can lead one to believe such.

As I said though this is only based on what I've seen in a short time, disregard it if it is inaccurate.

[canas is back]

I think you misunderstood me. It's not contradicting the Constitution to create legislature dealing with a subject the Constitution does not mention.

then what is admendment 10 for, yea it is contradicting

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[Cynthia]

Yes I have. I don't think that two gay people should want to be together, but I cannot control someone's wants. It will not affect my happiness to allow gay marriage, and it does affect theirs. I'm curious, how will it make you unhappy?

I never saw this question answered, and I too would like to see how.

[YokaiKnight]

then what is admendment 10 for, yea it is contradicting

Very good point, but the necessary and proper clause pretty much covers that: "The Congress shall have Power - To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

Constitution omits =/= Constitution forbids. The Bill of Rights doesn't give the government power, it tells it what power it can't have.

On a different subject I just want to say something to Sandmanccl.

Any particular reason you speak as if you're 40? You're only 22 and yet you talk as though you have several decades of experience over some of us. You talk about not being able to vote due to age, and yet you've only had the ability to vote once.

Not to sound rude, but you really do seem to talk over us all as if your age means you're more experienced and wiser sometimes, when really you're young enough to have gone to school with me. I don't think the few years you have on everyone here counts for as much as you make it out to be at times.

You've only been in the adult world for a short time compared to the people who are out there, yet you seem to have a strong opinion on where you want your money to go, and who deserves what, when you have barely experienced the hardships of the adult world first hand.

Not to be disrespectful, but I honestly doubt you have that much experience in what it's like in the world outside is like so far, yet at times I get the impression you've seen it all.

Not to mention I've seen you say things along the lines of, "when you're older you'll understand."

In the utmost respect I say that you don't really have THAT much more experience than everyone, and I'm sure there are people who have more than yourself.

I'm not saying you've claimed you did, but I am saying your attitude towards these subjects can lead one to believe such.

As I said though this is only based on what I've seen in a short time, disregard it if it is inaccurate.

I get the same impression that he's 40, but since he's not condescending I see no problem with it. Why not speak confidently about your beliefs, if you feel confidently as well? "Stand firm for what you believe in, until and unless logic and experience proves you wrong."