S-Rank Weapons

[CWGameplay]

I generally liked the S-Rank weapons in Fates, but if you could make a mirror version of any of them (example: An S-Rank sword in comparison to the S-Rank katana), what would they be?

I personally like the idea of an S Rank scroll, since scrolls always give boosts to stats.

I'd also find the idea of a Rod that grants an extra turn (or something like that) really cool for an S-Rank weapon.

[Hithere]

Sword:

Mystletainn

Description: +5 Skill. Actually a sword.

Wouldn't this be perfect for Odin Swordmaster?

[Shadow Mir]

I'd also find the idea of a Rod that grants an extra turn (or something like that) really cool for an S-Rank weapon.

FE3 came up with that first. It was absolutely busted.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[MCProductions]

FE3 came up with that first. It was absolutely busted.

Tbf, the Again Staff was no where near as broken as FE3 warp, but yeah, when combined with a dancer, the Again Staff was a sight to behold.

DivineStone- S-rank Dragonstone, negates effects of Dragonskin and can double, Dragonstone+ Buffs and debuffs

[CWGameplay]

Thought of a cool one

Carnwennan - S Rank Knife

Mt 13 Hit 80% Crt 5 Avo 20 Rng 1 - 2

"A knife shrouded in darkness. +5 luck when initiating combat."

[Gradivus.]

FE3 came up with that first. It was absolutely busted.

Can just use FE12 again instead. It only grants an extra turn to one unit.

[GoXDS]

Thought of a cool one

Carnwennan - S Rank Knife

Mt 13 Hit 80% Crt 5 Avo 20 Rng 1 - 2

"A knife shrouded in darkness. +5 luck when initiating combat."

reminder that it's gotta have a big penalty of some sort. right now it's just outright OP compared to everything else. there's no reason not to use it

[BANRYU]

To begin with, I'm pretty sure the reason that there aren't S-rank equivalents on either side is because of each side's classes that can actually REACH S-rank. Nohr has no classes that can S-rank Swords, Lances, Daggers, or Bows, and Hoshido has no classes that S-rank Axes, Magic, and Staves. So... In some senses, kind of a moot point to begin with, although I suppose could be applicable for Revelations.

Thought of a cool one

Carnwennan - S Rank Knife

Mt 13 Hit 80% Crt 5 Avo 20 Rng 1 - 2

"A knife shrouded in darkness. +5 luck when initiating combat."

reminder that it's gotta have a big penalty of some sort. right now it's just outright OP compared to everything else. there's no reason not to use it

Maybe it would have some kind of huge defense penalty, like minus 5-6 in both Def and Res? Or, y'know, just the usual Str-halving penalty works too...

Something about the idea of a crazy-powerful weapon with huge defensive debuffs is interesting to me, though; like the legends about the Muramasa swords making their wielders blood-crazed and self-destructive, haha. Maybe on a different weapon, though.

[Lord Raymond]

Thought of a cool one

Carnwennan - S Rank Knife

Mt 13 Hit 80% Crt 5 Avo 20 Rng 1 - 2

"A knife shrouded in darkness. +5 luck when initiating combat."

The shrouded in darkness is really cool. I think that should be used to kind of make it an "evil weapon". How about giving it either a chance to backfire on the user (dealing the damage on yourself) or sapping HP after every time you use it.

[CWGameplay]

Carnwennan - S Rank Knife

Mt 13 Hit 80% Crt 5 Avo 20 Rng 1 - 2

"A knife shrouded in darkness. +5 luck when initiating combat. User loses 20% of HP after combat."

That works well

Carnwennan is King Arthur's knife, so I thought it'd be cool to make an S-Rank out of it.

[GoXDS]

there's already an Axe that does -30% HP. -20% for a S Rank comparatively just isn't enough of a penalty

[CWGameplay]

there's already an Axe that does -30% HP. -20% for a S Rank comparatively just isn't enough of a penalty

Sorry, I thought the Axe was -20% also.

Maybe ramp it up to 40%?

Either that or the defense drop that Chakram gives.

[Alastor15243]

I hate all of the melee S rank weapons, they're basically pointless for everything but dual strikes, and a huge let-down for how much weapon experience getting them takes. The tome, bow and shuriken are at least good.

So instead of balancing them against the actual melee weapons, let's balance them against something more reasonable...

-Valmanway, the S rank Sword

16 Mt, 75% Hit, 10% Crit.

Attack speed and doubling resistance reduced by 5. If the user can still double, the extra attack always occurs at the start of the round, rather than the end (when attacking, you attack twice before the enemy counter-attack, and when the enemy is attacking, it's like you have vantage).

Edited October 21, 2016 by Alastor15243

[shadowofchaos]

I hate all of the melee S rank weapons, they're basically pointless for everything but dual strikes, and a huge let-down for how much weapon experience getting them takes. The tome, bow and shuriken are at least good.

So instead of balancing them against the actual melee weapons, let's balance them against something more reasonable...

-Valmanway, the S rank Sword

16 Mt, 75% Hit, 10% Crit.

Attack speed and doubling resistance reduced by 5. If the user can still double, the extra attack always occurs at the start of the round, rather than the end (when attacking, you attack twice before the enemy counter-attack, and when the enemy is attacking, it's like you have vantage).

Attack speed and double resistance reduce by 5?

As in it's -5 on both phases?

I mean I'm just looking at this JP description and it would be a mess.

追撃しにくく,されやすい (-5,-5)

追撃する場合、自分から攻撃時2連続。

攻撃された時追撃を先に行う。

Yep, looks like a mess.

3 full lines of Kanji description would make the bottom screen cluttered as hell.

Edited October 21, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Alastor15243]

Attack speed and double resistance reduce by 5?

As in it's -5 on both phases?

I mean I'm just looking at this JP description and it would be a mess.

追撃しにくい,されやすい (-5,-5)

追撃する場合、自分から攻撃時2連続。

攻撃された時追撃は先に攻撃を行う。

Yep, looks like a mess.

3 full lines of Kanji description would make the bottom screen cluttered as hell.

Well that wasn't intended to be the in-game description. Let's see...

Follow up speed and double resistance -5. User's follow-up attacks begin the round rather than end it.

That better?

[shadowofchaos]

追撃しにくく,されやすい (-5,-5)

追撃を先に行う。

Better.

Edited October 21, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Alastor15243]

追撃しにくく,されやすい (-5,-5)

追撃を先に行う。

Better.

Thanks for translating it by the way, that was cool of you.

[shadowofchaos]

I just wanted to be silly and see how cluttered I could make my bottom screen.

Nothing more. I deserve no thanks for that.

Imagine the first description with debuff details.

追撃しにくい,されやすい (-5,-5)

追撃する場合、自分から攻撃時2連続

攻撃された時追撃は先に攻撃を行う

敵能力滅 (力-3, 魔力-3, 守備-2、 魔備-2)

戦闘後、次攻撃まで力半滅

Literal Translation:

Hard to do follow up attacks with, susceptible to follow up attacks. (-5,-5)

When follow up attacks are possible, and combat is initiated by the unit, follow up immediately.

When attacked, follow up attack goes first.

Debuffs enemies (Str-3, Mag-3, Def-2, Res-2)

Str is halved until after the next attack.

Edited October 21, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Shadow Mir]

Tbf, the Again Staff was no where near as broken as FE3 warp, but yeah, when combined with a dancer, the Again Staff was a sight to behold.

Still, one unit giving up their turn to give everyone else who already used their turn an extra move is rather nuts.

I hate all of the melee S rank weapons, they're basically pointless for everything but dual strikes, and a huge let-down for how much weapon experience getting them takes. The tome, bow and shuriken are at least good.

Speaking of which, I'd honestly say Waterwheel at least has something going for it.

Also, your weapon idea came from Castlevania, didn't it.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Alastor15243]

Still, one unit giving up their turn to give everyone else who already used their turn an extra move is rather nuts.

Speaking of which, I'd honestly say Waterwheel at least has something going for it.

Maybe, but it's basically a guard naginata with +20 dodge, better attack half the time, and much worse attack power the other half.

[Gradivus.]

Much worse is stretching it. The Mt difference between guard nagi and waterwheel is +14, so on a unit with 28 base str, the Atk with waterwheel/halved str is equal to that of guard nagi/full str. A str-capped spear master with 34 str or whatever the cap is loses 3 points to full str guard nagi while debuffed.

Also, idk why we're still discussing FE3 again, it's clear that it's the less refined implementation compared to FE12 again (which only revitalizes one unit). The more balanced FE12 version is also more in line with Fates' gameplay direction than FE3's with that characteristic "Kaga era brokenness".

Edited October 22, 2016 by Gradivus.

[Alastor15243]

Much worse is stretching it. The Mt difference between guard nagi and waterwheel is +14, so on a unit with 28 base str, the Atk with waterwheel/halved str is equal to that of guard nagi/full str. A str-capped spear master with 34 str or whatever the cap is loses 3 points to full str guard nagi while debuffed.

Fair enough, I suppose, when compared directly with the guard naginata, though if you're not relying on luck that still has to be assumed to be those 3 points less all the time unless you know for a fact what the enemy's attacking order is going to be. And it's an even bigger gap once you add in mods, statues, pair ups, rallies, tonics, meals...

And doing 3 less damage than a 5 might weapon half of the time is not exactly a compelling sell, the Guard Naginata is far more stable.

Also, your weapon idea came from Castlevania, didn't it.

Well yes that's where I heard the name, but I assumed it was a sword from mythology like most of the other weapons in that game. But I'm not finding it when I look it up, so I guess it's a Castlevania original?

Edited October 24, 2016 by Alastor15243

[Gradivus.]

Fair enough, I suppose, when compared directly with the guard naginata, though if you're not relying on luck that still has to be assumed to be those 3 points less all the time unless you know for a fact what the enemy's attacking order is going to be. And it's an even bigger gap once you add in mods, statues, pair ups, rallies, tonics, meals...

And doing 3 less damage than a 5 might weapon half of the time is not exactly a compelling sell, the Guard Naginata is far more stable.

Bolded: only the base value is halved (just double checked), so only mod/statue bonuses are a thing and their effects are minor unless you grind DVPs like crazy.

Italics: Waterwheel's +14 Mt (when at full Str) is much more likely to net ORKOes if you're not relying on luck, meaning you can safely count on half of the enemies dying. That's not so much the case for guard naginata, and the difference between nearly killing an enemy with halved Waterwheel and nearly killing an enemy with Guard Naginata tends to be negligible.