Ensemble Mafia - N5

[Blitz]

This is where your contradiction theory falls apart. My problem was he didn't use his vote, not that he didn't provide any content. Yet, it was semi-serious in that I did so to progress the RVS phase. You are talking about content. Also, Hober was null, and is now giving out more content. (That I have yet to read) You should talk about that. How long have you been playing Mafia?

sure, Hober Mallow didn't have a vote either. An RVS vote 24 hours into the phase when he supposedly has reads is as good as not voting, so my point stands.

I am still waiting on the supposed content that Hober had posted

my role claim once again, is not a joke, it is what it is. I cannot post the first 24 hours on even days and can post after that (as in, on D2, I cannot post the first 24 hours of it)

[Elemina]

By the way, I no longer accept Ryker as a viable lynch today.

[Elemina]

Elemina, if you had an explanation for why you voted Blitz, why didn't you put that in the post you voted him in? It's one thing for Ryker to make a vote w/no reasoning (still would like an explanation of that vote BTW kthnx), but you literally sheeped that vote with no explanation. But okay, maybe you didn't think it was necessary, being obtuse clearly isn't going to be a good scum tell in this game anyways. I don't like your Blitz case. None of the things you mentioned about him are actually scummy things (also Blitz is a veteran player FYI, even though admittedly he's not the greatest at scum), and it feels like you just made a vote because you had a lot of content without a vote despite not having a good reason to do so in your position. Continued justification of his Blitz vote bothers me, because there isn't any despite some pretty telling posts from Blitz (IMO anyways).

1. I didn't need to put the answer there as soon as possible, and I gave it later when asked.

2. My reasoning shows otherwise that it was not a sheep. If you think sheeping is a problem, what is your read on SB?

3. You disagree.

4. Continued Blitz justification of my Blitz vote bothers you, but you don't analyze it or break it down.

5. No analysis or break down of why you feel Blitz is telling.

This isn't a case, and it's odd that you choose to go towards Hober over me. That post isn't a reads list. I want to see full reads from you stating stances.

[Elemina]

sure, Hober Mallow didn't have a vote either. An RVS vote 24 hours into the phase when he supposedly has reads is as good as not voting, so my point stands.

I am still waiting on the supposed content that Hober had posted

So tell me then. If I said Hober was scum for having an RVS vote on page 2, what would you think?

Hober posted content a page ago, on you mostly I think.

That makes more sense, I thought you meant D1 for some reason.

[Blitz]

@YOLOSWAG, Explain your reasoning for voting me without a case

@Refa, I think Green Poet voting Spinal over Ryker makes no sense to me, because based on content, I cannot see how Ryker was the better of the two. I think I dropped the other point about her cause I cannot recollect it (and I don't feel like reading my own post)

@Green Poet,

@blitz, there is nothing that I like about the argument between spinal and ryker. what I dislike about it is that it's allowed ryker to go on for pages without talking about the people he's said he actually thinks to be scum, and instead humoring the wallpost arguments of someone who he maintains isn't even one of his scumreads. I think the argument is wearing down spinal's patience to the point where he's just casing anyone who disagrees with him, like with hober mallow. or spinal is just scum...
blitz, who is scum? you seem to disapprove of ryker but I cannot tell from reading your post if that's an entirely personal issue or something pertaining to his alignment. and apart from him, I didn't see anyone else who you might think is scum

for the first part, SB says it really well for me

@Green Poet: If you think Spinal is playing this way because they're getting frustrated, I don't understand your vote. Do you think that Spinal was feeling pressured to tunnel into Ryker, or is it something else? It feels like you should be voting for Mallow, because its one of the only two stances I see in your post.

Like I said, it shouldn't have degraded into crap about semantics, and Spinal should've stopped tunneling once Ryker made it clear he wasn't going to address the issues. Even so, Spinal's issues were legitimate ones that I agree with, and Ryker's refusal to address them is suspicious as hell.

what do you think of the post by Proto?

and for the second,
did you read this post?

I think I am. What do you think of Kirsche?

I do not feel that way and I would like you to quote your post where you have done it and explain to me how you did it
I think Kirsche is null with a town lean (the town lean comes from meta). He sounds like town, but he has fooled me countless times before, why I left him on null.

Apologizes that it wasn't clear, but in my first post I stated that I liked all of the active posters sans you and Blitz. This phrase was equivalent to saying I had a town read on most of the players posting. Specifically I liked Elemina, Ryker, Spinal, and Irony.

I definitely do not mind confrontation. It's how the game is progressed after all. The discussion that was going on at the time though was, as you put it, fruitless. I put myself between Rainbow and Ryker, because I saw it going down the same path after Rainbow's #179, where he quoted every single one of Ryker's recent posts. Nitpicky pursuits like that tend to just clutter the thread. I wanted to stomp out that fire before it could even ignite.

I've been calling you Green Tea, because that's how I first read your name. I think it's because my mind reads the "te" before the "Po" in "Poet". This, coupled with the type of green that is used for the SF backdrop, make me think of green tea ice cream when I'm browsing the thread and see your name.

yes you did and there was no reasoning behind it. I asked you why and you didn't respond

yet you did not try to pick any sides anywhere on any font and tried to distance yourself from them

irrelevent, since no content

Basically, yet again, you provided little to no content and continue in doing so. The next 2 posts of yours talk about doing ISO, yet the post after that is

I'm not sure why you asked me the first question after I said explicitly said I'd go deeper into it later. Anyways, I believe I indirectly answered this via my response to Green Tea. Let me know if there is anything that you would still like to be clarified though.

You're not a scum read. I think your tone has been super townie.

I asked Blitz about you because his reason for voting me at the time was for my "lazy" approach. I wanted to see if he had a similar read on you, because you had a similar approach at the time. An inconsistency in reads would have indicated to me that he had an agenda behind targeting me, not because he genuinely found the behavior scummy. Now that you are posting more, I get nothing from his answer.

Why is Yedi not in your scumlist?

I do not see any work on the ISOs you supposedly did

talks about how Kirsche is a townread, but leaves it on surface level by saying his tone is town

explaining why whatever you did before no longer has a point...

asks a question that can go somewhere

we have a follow up right after that

Blitz the question linking thing you do is hard to follow. Could you avoid doing that, good sir?

I dislike Blitz' approach thus far. His pushes so far have all been Low Hanging Fruit/EZ pushes (Irony, YOLO, Me, Ryker, Green Tea). Many of the questions he asked in his link-heavy post were things that had already been addressed.

Such as:


This very post that he links to explains what she dislikes about the Ryker/Spinal argument. So to me, this is a forced/fake question.


All (except one) of the link-questions towards Ryker in this post were things that had already been said towards Ryker already. I don't see the point of echoing these other than to boost the perceived amount of content he is producing.


--

The interactions between Blitz, YOLO, and Green Tea seem w/w/w.

• YOLO makes a scum list of Blitz, Green Tea, and Spiral, but only provides reasoning on spiral.
• Blitz concludes that YOLO is scum, then proceeds to vote me.
• Blitz has been wavering on his Green Tea read. He calls her a null scum read and claims that it can change depending on how she responds to the question I quoted above. This is such an irrelevant thing to base a read on. Especially, as I stated above, the very post he quotes already explains her thought process.
• Green Tea's response to Blitz ended with questions towards him that were out of left field. I'll quote the post below for convenience.

[spoiler=GP reply]

This just comes off as really forced...especially because blitz had just posted his scum reads on the previous page...

I usually don't like to look into connections like these before we even have a flip, but I just thought it was interesting that I got this vibe from each player independently. Like the left field questions from GP struck me before I had even saw during the Blitz iso that Blitz had recently made his reads posts.

I will try to do it less, lol (and I don't do it as bad as Eclipse/Balcerzak or Xinnidy, lol)

Then what do you make of my push on Elemina? If Green Poet is an easy push, what do you think of the others calling her scummy?
If you are an easy push, why don't you do something to change that? and also, this part of the case is a copy of Elemina's so, I must say those aren't even your own words...

You said "Many of the questions he asked", yet you only provided one example, provide the rest

also, you are wrong, I asked her on what she liked about the fight too, not just disliked, because from my PoV, I cannot see why she would agree to like Ryker over Spinal

regarding your interactions bit

yes, Yolo does that

yes, but you are ignoring my case on you, where you are doing nothing but acting like you are

yes, but that is because Green Poet has a very good sense of logic as town and is incredibly easy to follow, not so as scum

agreed

so, what are you concluding from this analysis and how did it help you to catch scum?

@Yedi

I like green poet, he brought up the irony newbtown thing which I agree with and I don't think scum would want to give town a pass this early.

what do you think of everyone who doesn't like Green Poet?

@Elemina, I have looked through your case on Refa, I can see Refa being lazy, but how is that worse than Hober Mallow, who was doing nothing?

7. Mallow hasn't made a significant post since I first made my case, of course my read hasn't progressed
8. You're cherrypicking a minor aspect of my vote. There are more aspects to it than that.

The points 7 and 8 are very accurate, IMO.

Will Read Yolo (pg 17)and Proto once I get back from the field

[Elemina]

Blitz, my #345 was addressed to you by the way. Is English your native language? Not a joke, serious and curious.

[Blitz]

So tell me then. If I said Hober was scum for having an RVS vote on page 2, what would you think?

Hober posted content a page ago, on you mostly I think.

That makes more sense, I thought you meant D1 for some reason.

that you are trying to get out of RVS

I responded to that and was responding to it a while back, but my point about you hard defending Hober when he didn't have content still stands. He did not have any content back then and yet, you decided to defend him. Why don't you link that content and tell me all about it and claim how that is not double standard, because to me, it clearly is.

[charlie_]

i DONT do townreads sb

i do "wouldnt lynch" declarations. that way if they flip scum i dont have to live with the pain of being wrong

lmao

@Elemina: You're unlikely to get that effort now because my shift starts in just over an hour, BUT that's definitely not my stance on Refa. You literally quoted me saying that I had a townlean on one of Refa's actions, not that I was completely sold on him being town. And my last post even reinforced that I still wanted to see more from him, which makes no sense if you think I've already made up my mind on him.

I'm assuming you're responding to every individual post as you see them, but even then this gripe doesn't make any sense.

[Elemina]

Blitz: That was worse to me since Refa was trying to state dislike of GP but disappeared and came back with a conclusion that doesn't line up since he wasn't in thread for that long. When a person starts posting, you expect them to come back with consistency. Refa had none of that. He states he had a lack of motivation, yet seems to have 'frustration' with my response to him. Why would he be frustrated when he isn't even involved or pushing anything? How accurate can Refa be (if town) if he's disliking GP but then at the turn of a hat, says "fair enough" and is ok with GP without interacting at all.

Fair enough on point 7. On 8, that is no good. You can't say "I find this null, but I'll still push on it since it rubs me the wrong way." I don't understand how it rubs him the wrong way if he finds it to be neutral. Also yes, I am detailed and thorough. I think I have outlined the whole picture of his play, not just looking at one post like SB has.

I'll re-read Hober now that things have developed further, though.

Thoughts on SB sheeping cases only?

[Elemina]

@Elemina: You're unlikely to get that effort now because my shift starts in just over an hour, BUT that's definitely not my stance on Refa.

So if you aren't completely sold on him, how come you haven't read him thoroughly enough to give a better conclusion (you have had time) instead of giving pot shots? I want reads when you get off your shift. Deadline should be coming soon and having an incomplete read is not enough from your slot. I quoted that post since you talked about it being late and not looking at my case but you continue to potshot without actually giving an analysis.

[Elemina]

Kirsche: I'll get to you on GP later.

Ryker: I'll get to you on Rainbow later.

Where is Green Poet???

[charlie_]

I read the case but properly tearing into things is a lot of effort and also horrible for everyone to read.

My complete stance on Refa is that I don't know. Metawise I thought he was a little quiet early, until I realised that there were a ridiculous number of posts from like 3 people and everyone else had mostly been quiet. My next impression of him (and this still holds) is that he's struggling to find his footing which is reasonable considering mafia has been dead/on the verge of death for a while. His actual content is (just) agreeable and doesn't really do anything as far as my opinion on him goes and I think how he reacted to you is more likely to come from town than mafia.

Unless someone is a huge topic of conversation I don't see the point on posting a paragraph of waffling if I feel mostly indifferent to their slot. I'd rather prompt them for opinions/ask questions because I feel like it gets way more done and is less ugly to look at.

[Elemina]

Blitz's post on Elemina is good. I'd sheep it. Refa's response is also fair but I'm interested in seeing what he comes up with when he cools down so there's more alignment/less emotion behind his reasoning.

@kirsche: why wouldn't Elemina want to take a fight with Refa here? I agree that it's unlikely that Refa would be lynched currently, but unless your team is under pressure as mafia who you get lynched doesn't really matter on D1. iirc scum!Xinnidy used to do weird little side-pushes like this every game so I wouldn't give Elemina a pass for this unless there's a specific reason for it?

1. How is that an optimal strategy for a scum team?

2. How can you deduce this without first having a scum flip?

3. How would you know? Who do you suppose I am defending?

3. What is your entire read on my slot. From early game to now.

[Elemina]

I read the case but properly tearing into things is a lot of effort and also horrible for everyone to read.

Too late now, you must commit.

[Blitz]

no, English is not my native language,

1. What is your read on Irony now? Read on SB?

2. Your #46

3. You have been asked for scum picks and contribution and you aren't as active as myself or Ryker.

4. That doesn't give you the excuse of ignoring his slot. Ryker gave reads now. You can read him or replace out.

5. I'll defer this to the next post.

In conclusion, you show no drive to find scum proactively, your recent read on me being omgus. It seems more like a lazy catch up. If you town you aren't trying that hard. That said, your reaction to me screams of town rather than scum. I don't think you'd bring that out as scum, since it isn't good at all.

1. Irony, probably town, while SB is more likely town (he is reading the game so, he gets that)

2. What of it?

3. I answered all of those and what of me not being as active as you? I have played games and caught all scum with less than 1 hour of game time every 2 days, so, don't give me that

4. I did read them, what is your point now?

5. Waiting on that, because I don't see it on the next post

It is entirely your opinion that I am not looking for scum, but I believe I have found scum in you. The so called OMGUS happens to have a case before it and you are ignoring it. I don't care what you read me as anymore, since you are using double standards to weigh in on the players, unless you can prove me wrong, I will push for that lynch on you.

Blitz: That was worse to me since Refa was trying to state dislike of GP but disappeared and came back with a conclusion that doesn't line up since he wasn't in thread for that long. When a person starts posting, you expect them to come back with consistency. Refa had none of that. He states he had a lack of motivation, yet seems to have 'frustration' with my response to him. Why would he be frustrated when he isn't even involved or pushing anything? How accurate can Refa be (if town) if he's disliking GP but then at the turn of a hat, says "fair enough" and is ok with GP without interacting at all.

Fair enough on point 7. On 8, that is no good. You can't say "I find this null, but I'll still push on it since it rubs me the wrong way." I don't understand how it rubs him the wrong way if he finds it to be neutral. Also yes, I am detailed and thorough. I think I have outlined the whole picture of his play, not just looking at one post like SB has.

I'll re-read Hober now that things have developed further, though.

Thoughts on SB sheeping cases only?

You should know that SF mafia has been dead for quite a long time. Most of the guys from native sf who signed up hardly play nowadays. We want the game to be fun, not a chore (which is why we quit playing). Yet, your posts are accusing him of doing something he has not, so, I can see his PoV very easily.

Now regarding him having a different state of mind, I actually do not see it.

I think something can be gut bad, but null otherwise. I do not agree with your case on Refa and you need to get more input/show me better if you want me to follow it

I want you to post what you found as content for Hober at that point

Better sheeping than him bussing, lol (this is an inside joke, what I wanted to mention exists on top)

[Irony]

@Blitz, thank you for handling the Night/Preventing people from dying plans. :)

[Elemina]

So let me get this straight Blitz. SB can be town simply for reading but Hober is scum for being passive. I don't think you are thinking thoroughly about your reads here. Your SB town read is weak, and you haven't shown any progression to show that you came to the conclusion Irony is town after scum-reading him early game. That's my problem with you regardless of alignment. If refa has GUT well, it can't be shown to others, it's only a feeling that he can feel, but we can't. He has to put those feelings into words otherwise it's just a heap of nothing.

What is your read on Ryker now?

[charlie_]

Scum doesn't want to be always tied down to the day's lynch candidates so they might try to push elsewhere instead. If the wagons have a mafia member in it you obviously don't want to bus D1 unless you have to or you're a suicidal maniac like me. If it's a townie you might not want to be associated with the lynch because D1 wagons are a crapshoot and a lot of people will look for scum on a D1 wagon if they already have townreads on the rest of the voters. I don't think you're necessarily trying to defend anyone but I wanted to explain to kirsche in case one of us makes a point that changes the other's mind.

My read on you has gone like:

/effort ---> null ---> scum

[Irony]

So let me get this straight Blitz. SB can be town simply for reading but Hober is scum for being passive. I don't think you are thinking thoroughly about your reads here. Your SB town read is weak, and you haven't shown any progression to show that you came to the conclusion Irony is town after scum-reading him early game. That's my problem with you regardless of alignment. If refa has GUT well, it can't be shown to others, it's only a feeling that he can feel, but we can't. He has to put those feelings into words otherwise it's just a heap of nothing.

What is your read on Ryker now?

...I'm female, Elemina. You're not the first to make that mistake, but I felt like I should let you know.

[charlie_]

@Blitz, thank you for handling the Night/Preventing people from dying plans. :)

Forgot to respond to this but I don't think calling out Doc targets is productive unless roleclaims are involved. It's mostly useless noise and at best you see someone has slightly different townreads than you do.

[Irony]

Forgot to respond to this but I don't think calling out Doc targets is productive unless roleclaims are involved. It's mostly useless noise and at best you see someone has slightly different townreads than you do.

Oh, right. Didn't realise that part. My bad.

[Elemina]

that you are trying to get out of RVS

I responded to that and was responding to it a while back, but my point about you hard defending Hober when he didn't have content still stands. He did not have any content back then and yet, you decided to defend him. Why don't you link that content and tell me all about it and claim how that is not double standard, because to me, it clearly is.

Let me explain it to you. Saying that Hober is scum for RVS voting on page 2 is also saying that everyone that RVS voted is scum for RVS voting. That is why your reasoning falls apart. Spinal didn't use his RVS vote at all, which shows he didn't care to progress the phase at that point. You are just trying to fit whatever you can into your read on me. Like you are literally twisting my words to fit your belief, yet this is why I think you are townier than not at the moment.

I find Refa worse than Hober just as you find Hober worse than SB who has nothing to show for his alignment. I will give you the point that Hober didn't have his vote in play, but let me ask you: Who else didn't have their votes in play? Should they be scum too?

[Elemina]

Hober Mallo, Refa, Blitz, Yedi need to move their votes/do something productive with their votes.

Irony does too. Irony, gun to head, who would you vote if you had to? I want three scum picks from you.

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[Elemina]

My read on you has gone like:

/effort ---> null ---> scum

Break that down for me. You are saying you find me scum for association yet you don't even have a suspect of association to me? Rightnow SB, I find your read on me bad. You use Refa's frustration as justification to scum-read me but then try to justify it further by saying that I may be trying to defend a buddy to fit your narrative. I find this more likely since you haven't felt the need to have a solid conclusion on Refa's play so you could see what I see on Refa, but you neglect to do that.

[Elemina]

At the moment:

SB, Yolo scum.

Not sure on the rest. Yolo is gut right now, and possibly associated to SB.