Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War 2017 Tier List - Day 39: The support kids (Corple, Lene, Sharlow and Laylea)

[Inference]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, Forseti doesn't exactly work in this game the way you want it to. For one, the enemy doesn't actually attack if they have no chance to hit. Parking Ced on evasive terrain with Forseti gives you nigh-guaranteed survival, but you don't kill any enemies in the enemy phase, which is where the bulk of your combat would usually come from in FE. On the flipside, if you are facing ~20% chances to be hit instead of zero, on top of not being a very bulky unit to begin with, you always risk a potential reset. Ced as a unit can never be as good in practice as he is in theory; the maps in this game are too damn big, and he is surrounded by units that can fight as well as he does with better availability, better movement, and guaranteed survival in dense combat areas.

But there is one thing Ced is capable of that not all units can do: use high-ranking staves. Atop the ability to clear arenas with ease to repair his own equipment, Ced is actually a rather good utility unit that can fight extremely well, Forseti or otherwise, in the very few practical applications a non-mounted unit's combat has. Using Fortify, Physic, Silence, and Sleep every now and then does affect battle to a non-negligible degree. Claude-dad also opens up Valkyrie, but if anyone can think of a practical use for that thing, let me know!

6/10 for the potential to be useful as a staffbot, but falling short in almost every other area.

Claude!Fee is goddess. In addition to the numerous blatantly Fee-only areas in the game that house very useful items, or at least ones she can sell for easy cash, having staff utility on promotion gives her an almost unrivaled level of versatility. Unfortunately, a good Magic stat is far from guaranteed, since her base is so low, but a simple Magic ring should allow you full use of her repertoire. I recommend the Shield and Renewal rings specifically for her, since the main frontline combatants are never really wanting for defense, and you really want Fee flying off to do Fee things from Turn 1 without ever having to worry about doubling back for healing.

9/10. This unit can do almost anything with the right resources, and much of what she does is irreplaceable.

[Valkama]

18 hours ago, Yojinbo said:

2.) in a substitute run Hawk actually has competition as a backup staffbot in Linda who has better magic and res growth rates as well as Elite.

Hawk has 22 base magic, a 20% growth and gains +3 magic from a chapter 9 event that isn't hard to do. Linda's average level 30 stats put her at 25.9 magic which isn't even a full point over Hawk's base with the event. Her res is going to be on par with Hawk's base as well.

Also if you pair Hawk with Linda he gains another +3 magic which would put him over her cap.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Valkama

[Yojinbo]

Linda has 11 base Mag and gets +5 Magic upon promotion. From her base level to 20 she'll proc +mag 7 times upon leveling up on average which means that by the time she promotes - probably after clearing the Ch.9 arena - she'll have around 23 mag. I didn't account for events that give Hawk some additional magic but that doesn't really do much to change the argument. Hawk is competing with Linda as a backup staffbot.

[CappnRob]

Sety doesn't NEED terrain bonuses to dodge while still drawing aggro: He routinely hits 90-110+ evade with Forsetti alone, and enemies WILL attack you with 0% accuracy (there is a threshold to how negative the hit rate needs to be, but I've seen plenty of red goons throw themselves with no chance of hitting someone). Moreover, Forsetti-Sety does have a very invaluable application on the endgame at least: facetanking the Ishtar Squad. Magic advantage over Ishtar, enough speed to avoid being hit, ranged attacks, and the power to crit? He basically takes them out in one turn.

[Inference]

Quote

enemies WILL attack you with 0% accuracy (there is a threshold to how negative the hit rate needs to be, but I've seen plenty of red goons throw themselves with no chance of hitting someone)

Source required. Had massive problems recently with the Draco squad of Ch. 5 ignoring a perfectly positioned Lewyn, forcing a reset due to how long it took to actually kill them.

I highly doubt your endgame scenario is the reason people are giving him high scores. People are still just looking at his stats and tome and thinking 'broken'. Given that's the case, you'd need a new moniker for Seliph and a host of units which are better off.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Inference
His holy name. It was a foolish joke, and I've long repented for it. The debate was to forego the redaction. I decided that refusing to remove the phrase would be a sin.

[Hasnbaakoajsbakaiaja]

1 hour ago, CappnRob said:

Sety doesn't NEED terrain bonuses to dodge while still drawing aggro: He routinely hits 90-110+ evade with Forsetti alone, and enemies WILL attack you with 0% accuracy (there is a threshold to how negative the hit rate needs to be, but I've seen plenty of red goons throw themselves with no chance of hitting someone). Moreover, Forsetti-Sety does have a very invaluable application on the endgame at least: facetanking the Ishtar Squad. Magic advantage over Ishtar, enough speed to avoid being hit, ranged attacks, and the power to crit? He basically takes them out in one turn.

I have also seen this.

 

1 hour ago, Inference said:

Source required. Had massive problems recently with the Draco squad of Ch. 5 ignoring a perfectly positioned Lewyn, forcing a reset due to how long it took to actually kill them.

I highly doubt your endgame scenario is the reason people are giving him high scores. People are still just looking at his stats and tome and thinking 'broken'. I suppose Seliph would be Yahweh, then.

I am pretty sure everyone or at least some people are taking into account factors such as Ishtar's Squad thank you very much. It is almost vital for Ishtar and the Pega Sisters.

[ZemZem]

Glad to see Lewyn!Ced is still worshipped as 'broken' for whatever reason. 

2 hours ago, 1japanfan said:

I am pretty sure everyone or at least some people are taking into account factors such as Ishtar's Squad thank you very much. It is almost vital for Ishtar and the Pega Sisters.

There are other ways to kill the Pega Sisters and Ishtar without having to rely on Ced, though. He certainly makes things nice, but he isn't 'vital'.

[Vaximillian]

3 hours ago, Inference said:

Source required.

Sometimes they do (Forseti!Ced), sometimes they don't (Dew on a village against shirtless axemen).

It may have been Charm bonus (and/or Seliph's stars) though. Does the AI take Charm into account?

Edited March 1, 2017 by Vaximillian

[CappnRob]

FE4's AI is very weird.

And while Sety isn't essential for beating the Isthar Squad, by that late in the game I much rather just throw him and Seliph at them and clean house in two turns rather than screw around. Most of your army is worthless in that fight due to Isthar's range and the peg sisters movement and you gotta down them fast.

Other things Forsetti!Sety is good at: drop a barrier ring on him and he can take on the sleep dark mages in Chapter 10 and Endgame, as well as the wall of Edda. He can handle the Rottenritter very easily too. He's one of the few characters who can take down Julius in chapter 10 (though Ishtar is still easier). He's also good against Arion because he's one of the few guys who can dodge him in any capacity. Really just in general Sety is your "get out of jail free" card for frustrating situations, on top of being a very good staffbot so he has out of combat utility as well.

Edited March 1, 2017 by CappnRob

[Dandy Druid]

5 hours ago, CappnRob said:

Sety doesn't NEED terrain bonuses to dodge while still drawing aggro: He routinely hits 90-110+ evade with Forsetti alone, and enemies WILL attack you with 0% accuracy (there is a threshold to how negative the hit rate needs to be, but I've seen plenty of red goons throw themselves with no chance of hitting someone). Moreover, Forsetti-Sety does have a very invaluable application on the endgame at least: facetanking the Ishtar Squad. Magic advantage over Ishtar, enough speed to avoid being hit, ranged attacks, and the power to crit? He basically takes them out in one turn.

Happens to me all the time. I can't thank the confusing AI enough for targetting Ethlin who dodges like crazy when there are more vulnerable targets to go after.

Maybe @Inference is playing on a different patch, but I've had the pleasure of witnessing CappnRob's claim a few times. I know personal anecdotes aren't necessarily the best source of proof, but it's happened to at least 3 people in this thread page alone though.

[CappnRob]

I personally had it happen plenty of times on my last playthrough of FE4, which I finished two weeks ago. Like I said, there does seem to be a threshold of some kind (Sety on mountains will get ignored more often than not) but hell I've seen mages shoot at the swordtwins in woods without any chance of hitting.

[Darrman]

Alright, today we've got the first only according to some flier and one of the most ridiculous units according to some except he has six move so he gets left in the dust.

Let's start with Fee. She arrives after slaying Harold and taking Ganeishire Castle for yourself, dragging Arthur along for the ride. Coming halfway through the first chapter of the generation is better then arriving near the end of the third. Which is a good thing, considering she can fly and do all the nice things having a flying horse involves, such as helping out Leaf's crew in Ch7 and being able to fly over any annoying mountains in the way. Nothing to do about those even more annoying yellow tiles, though. I mean why not kill Altenna, those of you who care about turns aren't gonna bother getting her. Plot? What plot? Anyway, Fee will always have Pursuit thanks to her mother, and that's as important as it always is for killing things. Depending on her dad, she might have more, though all I've ever actually done is Levin's Continue and Critical. I've seen people make Fury get paired with physical guys to make Fee more competent, but I can't vouch for that myself. Helping her strength always helps, though being the scrub I am, I just rely on Levin being a jerk. Thanks for the strength! I also recommend stealing Fin's brave lance for a while, 4x attacks are nice. She gets Continue on promotion regardless, but her magic should be sufficient to hit things with magic swords by that point. I feel I should mention that if you make Claude her dad, Fee's gonna have B-rank staves on promotion. Physic on a Pegasus? With respectable magic to boot? Yes please.

I can't remember what I gave Fury and I'm too lazy to look it up. I'll just give Fee a 7/10 or something. I might change it later. She looks fine as well. 

As for Sety, descendant of Sety, wielder of Holsety, the mage that smites evil or something, and a bunch of other things, well I guess it's time to sign my Official Scrub Certificate and think he's great. 10/10? No, but I'm not giving him a 5. Anyway, he arrives quite late onto the scene, near the end of Chapter 8. He makes his debut as one NPC against a horde of Thracian wyverns, lead by a tougher wyvern, since Altenna chickened out. Can one man stand against this horde of ferocious dragons? Probably, even if it takes a while due to a case of enemies gaining working brains. Anyway, I've already earned my Certificate for Scrubbiness, so I may as well go for the degree. Sety with Holsety is insane. If someone fights him, they will almost certainly die. Even if he just uses Elwind or something, they'll probably die anyway. He's basically Levin... with Pursuit. Suddenly, one of Levin's biggest problems... disappears. At base, he can double pretty much everything. And he just gets better. Growth rates are nice, like that 105% speed growth that may not even be relevant since that speed overflow bug gets fixed in Project Naga. Pursuit, Critical, Continue? Yeah, things are gonna die.
But wait! Perhaps his dad isn't Levin. Maybe it's Claude. No worries, he still has good bases. And better magic versus Levin. And S staves for those who are into that. But wait some more! Dad is a physical unit? No worries. His bases are good enough that he'll still be good with a 10% magic growth. And he'll always have Pursuit and Continue. Sage class bases are a wonderful thing. Guaranteed 15 magic at base. Lightning has 14 might. 29 magical attack isn't shabby by any means. Sure it won't get any better, but hey. B-rank staves guaranteed is also nice. Can't have enough staff users, after all. 6 move is better than 5; gotta try to put Lana out of a job here. Try, anyway. She's probably got another staff rank on you. Eh, Leaf puts both of you on the sidelines flinging ten range staves while eating his/Celice's/Aless's dust, so meh.

I like Sety. Maybe I'm biased a bit. So what. 7.5+0.5 outright bias for 8/10. Rest in peace Delmud of Nodion. He died so the RNG would spare Sety a 20% Hel blast from one of the Dark Warlords.

[Hasnbaakoajsbakaiaja]

20 hours ago, Zeems said:

Glad to see Lewyn!Ced is still worshipped as 'broken' for whatever reason. 

There are other ways to kill the Pega Sisters and Ishtar without having to rely on Ced, though. He certainly makes things nice, but he isn't 'vital'.

True. He just makes it a lot easier.

[OliKad]

Hm, considering she is a flier, Fee got some surprisingly ehh scores in my opinion. I guess flying really is weakened in FE4. Oh well...

I now let you know that it is time to talk about the Hero of Justice, Arthur, as well as her sister, Tinn- Wait a minute...

*ahem* It's time to discuss Arthur the Wind Mage and Tinny the (litteral) Thunder Mage!

[Vaximillian]

11 minutes ago, OliKad said:

Tinny the (litteral) Thunder Mage

What do you mean, she's not trash!

[Inference]

I really didn't think Arthur was worth it until Chapter 10, where he becomes a pretty obvious 10/10 unit for bulling through 1-2 hell in a way that provokes manly tears.

The rest of the game, I never feel he is quite as compulsory or gamebreaking, due to the fact that he's a fucking 5-move footie for probably two chapters minimum. No, he does not contribute in either of those chapters.

8/10

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Arthur is gamebreaker or failure, just depends who his father is.

Since I always have Lewyn as his father, he has lolseti.

9.5

 

Tinny isn't too special. She has cool skills, but unlike her mum she hasn't an OP tome which can oneshot enemies. She also needs the pursuit and magic to become a decent combat fighter.

5

Edited March 3, 2017 by Magillanica Lou Mayvin

[OliKad]

1 hour ago, Magillanica Lou Mayvin said:

Tinny isn't too special. She has cool skills, but unlike her mum she hasn't an OP tome which can oneshot enemies. She also needs the pursuit ring like her mom to become a decent combat fighter.

5

 

She can get it after promotion, at least...

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Yeah I know, when it's too late already...

[General Horace]

Ill give Arthur and 8.5.  Even without Holsety he has great 1-2 range combat on a horse from chapter 8/9 onwards.  He's ony of the few units that can keep up lategame, even without a holy weapon.

Tinny gets a 6.5 from me.  She's a great user of status staves lategame, with decent combat.

Amid gets a 3.5 from me, with 0.5 bias because his face looks like a butt.  His stats are actually really good but he doesn't have pursuit or a horse so he's pretty low on the rung for pursuit ring.

Linda gets a 6 from me.  She's better than most Tinny's, but the best Tinny (Claude) is better than Linda.  She has great skills, and can use Thoron at base.  Like Tinny, good status staffbot

[Yojinbo]

Arthur 8.5/10

Levin!Arthur is non-negotiable for me. You're either doing the Levin x Tiltyu pairing or accept that you're gimping your gen 2 party. Lex!Arthur is a fun gimmick because he can promote by chapter 8 and one-shot stuff with Vantage + Wrath hax but his mag growth will be insufficient to have him keep up with the rest of your party though. It's still a pretty good pairing though because it's the most viable one for Tinny. Azel!Arthur on the other hand is massively overrated: neither does he become a particularly strong endgame unit, having with a meh skillset and meh weapons to choose from, nor does he get rid of his main weakness - being footlocked - any time soon.

Anyway, Arthur eventually becomes the strongest unit in your party having both Continue and Critical [the two best non-pursuit skills in gen 2], access to Holsety from Ch.6 [!] onwards and a horse. Until he gets there he does have a bit of a mountain to climb. Fortunately, Ch.7 and Ch.8 allow foot units to gain a good chunk of exp so if you're playing it smart you can easily have him promoted after the Ch.9 arena and then go on a rampage with him. He destroyes pretty much everything with ease except like Alvis and Julius but the latter is trivial and the former is just designed to not be taken down in one round by anything. Arthur even ORKOs Arion quite easily which means you also get a free Prayer Ring.

Amid 2/10

lolbuttface

Tinny 3/10

She's kind of a lost cause - it doesn't really matter what you're doing with her, you'll never be able to get a truly useful unit. She's footlocked forever and becomes available at Ch.8 pretty much so combat utility is simply out of reach for her, no matter how good of a fighter she may become. The niche you wanna aim with her for, of course, is staffboting so either you want her to reach promotion asap or buff up her staff rank. The former is achieved by doing Lex x Tiltyu which is already established to be a pairing that works out fairly well. The problem is that Lex!Tinny is just strictly worse than Linda who has the same skills but both higher base mag and a far better magic growth - she has a much harder time in the arena, doesn't reach promotion any faster and her staff utility is worse due to a considerably lower mag stat. Buffing her staff rank is achieved by pairing Claude and Tiltyu which gives her good mag and res growth but takes longer to get her promoted - realistically, I would not expect her to be promoted before the beginning of Ch.10 or at least at some point halfway through Ch.9 so you won't get to use her A-Rank Staff goodness until Ch.10. And then the only thing she uses that Linda can't is the Fortify staff - not a worthy tradeoff for doing a pairing that leads to a sub-par Arthur in the process. I honestly don't even bother with her anymore unless I do Lex x Tiltyu for funsies, she's just never worth it.

Linda 6/10

Pretty much the same as Hawk to me to all intents and purposes. He can fight better which can matter at one point [guarding the home castle against the Wyverns in Ch.] but Linda has one more arena to wrathhax her way through [in Ch.7] so she'll have a bit of a money lead on him. Overall it evens out pretty much entirely because for me Linda always promoted after the Ch.9 arena from where she and Hawk are sharing staffbotting duties in Lana's absence.

[Shin]

Arthur is pretty much Azel and Levin combined until he promotes, where he then joins Celice, Aless and Leaf in the legion of doom. Enemies have ass for res, and he's got a few viable dads. He works well with Holsety but he's more than functional with someone like Azel as his dad. His only problem is that he's kinda squishy early on and is kinda bad at moving, but they get fixed to some extent.

8/10

Tinny is basically a straight up improvement of her mother, and she's got some staff utility too. She's never going to be a killing machine or a rescue staffer (unless you made her dad Claude, then it's gg Arthur), but she's got enough flexibility to fight, avoid being status staffed and lugging around some staves of her own.

6.5/10

Amid has a butt for a face and decent stats but his sucky promotion makes him inferior to both Arthur and his sister. He gets Adept anyway on promotion and unless you're doing a draft, there's likely to be someone who wants the pursuit ring more. However, he does come with a B in Wind, but I think it's a while before an Elwind pops up. At the end of the day, he's basically a magical Badney.

3/10

Linda is kinda weird, but she's one of the more passable subs. She can use Thoron from the get go and Elite really helps her otherwise lackluster combat by giving her levels. She's really frail though, and the lack of pursuit means that she's more of a staffbot than a dedicated fighter. Still, you could do worse.

5/10

[qwernst]

If you have Azel or Lewyn the father, Arthur and Tinny become magical beacons of destruction and smite heathens for you. Tinny though, has a bad hair day no matter the father. They're both a 10/10. 

Amid and Linda are the only subs with any holy blood. But they're not that good. 6.5/10.

[Valkama]

Arthur is a pretty good 1-2 range combat unit. Not too much else to say about him. His only problem is he can be redundant to a good Finn with a crit Javelin and he starts unmounted. 8/10.

Tinny is bleh in most of her pairings. She either takes forever to level or has sub par staffing. 4/10

Amid is like the Lewyn of the gen but he doesn't have a holy weapon so people don't fawn over him despite all his problems. He doesn't get staves like Lewyn does unfortunately so 3.5/10

Linda, unlike Tinny, has Elite and Thoron at base along with a good magic growth. While she can't have an A staff rank like Tinny can, she doesn't care for it 6.5/10

[ZemZem]

Arthur: Lewyn/Tiltyu is the way to go. Can do well with Axel or Claude as a dad, too. Even can do some silly shenanigans with Lex as a dad. But in all intents and purposes, assume Lewyn is his dad. I don't think there's much to be said here. Early Forseti is just too good, and it helps he gains a mount upon promotion. 8.5/10

Tinny/Tine: Fun to use, and it helps she usually grows decently well. Staff access is nice and her combat is pretty good. 6/10

Amid/Buttface: He actually has some pretty good growths for a sub and his combat is decent. If he promoted into a Mage Knight, then he'd be much better. But he doesn't. You don't really get any benefits from using good 'ol Buttface. 3/10

Linda: Interesting sub. Unlike Tinny she can use Thoron off the bat and has a better MAG growth than Lex!Tinny. Their roles are very similar regardless. 6/10, +.5 bias because she's my favorite sub. 6.5/10