Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War 2017 Tier List - Day 39: The support kids (Corple, Lene, Sharlow and Laylea)

[NoMommaGarchomp]

Arthur

-Is Lewyn's optimal daughter

-First pure magic user

-Mount on promo, which he'll reach quickly with Forseti. 

-FORSETI IN THE VERY BEGINNING 

-Even if Lewyn is taken, has another solid option, Azel. 

-Wrath

CONS:

-Worse caps than Sage. But Sage's caps don't matter to Forseti!Arthur. Azel!Arthur will be slightly affected, but unlike the Sages, he's mounted, so he is still crazy. And enemies have shit for RES, the Mag cap matters not. 

-Somewhat frail in a land where he'll never be hit. 

8,5+1 for totally being a drug addict 

9,5/10

Tinny

-Good magic combat 

-Good Staves

-Thoron

-Wrath

Cons:

-Unmounted

-Essentially comes at Ch. 8

-Underleveled

-If father is Lewyn, has no Pursuit. Unlike Arthur, this somewhat hurts her. 

5/10

 

[Dandy Druid]

Arthur

The first Arthur in the series, and the best Arthur in the series. Is very good if Levin or Azel is his father, and that's about it. The only other acceptable pairing is Claude, which gives him decent stats but shit inheritance. Levin is the best father and should be matched with Tiltyu because early Forseti use is too good to pass up. Once he promotes to Mage Knight, he'll be a mounted Foresti user to add to the badassery. People argue that Sety will be more powerful with Forseti because of stat caps, and that's true, but Forseti is too good anyways. Can't hit him either. He has 5 conversations total, but he doesn't get a stat boost in any of them. (Granted, he won't need them if he has Forseti). I'd be mad but his cool silver hair has won me over. His conversations are mainly limited to Tine and Fee.

9.5/10 (would be 10/10 but due to his lack of versatility for father pairings, he gets a 9. 0.5 is for my bias.)

Tine/Tinny/Whatever it's a weird name

The Freeges need to get some better names. Unlike her brother, she has more leeway with acceptable fathers. Will be pretty solid with Levin, Azel, or Claude as her father. With Lex as her father, she gets that sweet Wrath/Ambush combo. The only problem is that her magic growth will suck so she'll need a magic ring (but Arthur is screwed and will need it more, if you hadn't given up on him.) She has a cute design, and I feel bad for her. She's had it rough: she gets abused by her uncle and aunt, her mother dies while she's young, and she doesn't really have anyone for her to rely on. The same applies to Linda.  She has a total of 6 conversations, and they're pretty interesting. (5 on most playthroughs, 6 with Levin as her father).

On 3/3/2017 at 6:19 AM, qwernst said:

If you have Azel or Lewyn the father, Arthur and Tinny become magical beacons of destruction and smite heathens for you. Tinny though, has a bad hair day no matter the father. They're both a 10/10. 

Amid and Linda are the only subs with any holy blood. But they're not that good. 6.5/10.

You. take. that. back. Her twintails are iconic I would've preferred just one ponytail though let's be real. She gets a 6.5/10 for me. She can be quite tough to train and she has no mount.

Buttface

He has Tordo holy blood, so he's a good substitute. That being said, WHERE'S YOUR SILVER HAIR. YOU'RE A DESCENDANT OF TORDO FOR PETE'S SAKES. His class doesn't make any sense (Wind Mage, not Thunder), his main love interest (Hermina) looks more like his sister than his actual sister does (And Hawk looks like he could be brothers with Linda). He's doesn't get a mount when he promotes unlike Arthur, so that's disappointing. It's like the game is punishing you for not pairing Tiltyu. He has 5 conversations, but he at least gets 3 magic in his secret event, so he has that working for him (too bad it's all the way in the boonies) So he gets a 6/10 for having Holy Blood.

Linda

She has no silver hair either. W H Y.  She gets a pretty good weapon (Tron) and Elite so she's already easier to use than Tine. Sure, Tine's stats will be better at the end, but Linda is a lot easier to train and her stats don't really fall behind her cousin too much. Linda is a competent combat and utility unit thanks to her holy blood. Like Tine, she has a tragic backstory so I get the feels. She also has 6 conversations, and like her cousin, gets a boost in most of them, so props to ya mama. She gets a 7.5/10 from me. I would've given her an 8, but she doesn't have silver hair so...

[Dayni]

Time to rate the Tordo siblings! (Also I had to start again because this forum doesn't know when to save a post)

Spoiler

The mage twins are all about doing big magical damage to opponents, starting off at low levels. When they're promoted, the boy will have more choices for tomes and also be able to use swords (much as they're not much good at this) and the girl with have a similar role but with staves to both heal and afflict statuses as well. And that's all that I'll say the same between the child and substitute.

These two will have Wrath from Tiltyu, which helps with these two doing a lot of damage. Of course, it's most beneficial when they have high magic so that they can respond at 1-2 range with nukes. They also start as mages, which don't help with them getting from place to place. Arthur will get a horse on promotion, helping with taking out opponents with the rest of the cavalry. He will want skills to increase the amount of attacks he can do and growths to help with magic in particular. Tinny gets the same class as Tiltyu on promotion, so giving her Pursuit will help her and similar growth improvements to Arthur's. Levin gives Continue (giving it early to Tinny, and allowing Arthur to actually get more than one attack at a time) Critical (because doubling attack power is never a bad thing on your side), a boost to Wind rank (which is very nice, given that they can take Tornado and Elwind then) and boosts the growths of these two pretty well, particularly with speed and skill. Oh, and Arthur will become HorSety. Even before he promotes, the fact that Holsety's available early is a boon to the party and himself, especially with early terror bosses like Ishtore. Azel gives Pursuit to them both, a boost to Fire ranks (meaning one can take Bolganone) and his growths sync up very well with Tiltyu, pretty much making both evenly good across all their growths... except for their low strength, defence and resistance growths, which is par for the course for magic growths. Lex is an oddity, given that he gives Elite (helping them both promote sooner) and Vantage (which allows for the great Wrath + Vantage combo, wherein anything coming at them will be hurting after a time), while improving their defence and HP growths in particular and leaving their magic growths low and not being able to make more than one attack until Tinny promotes (though the can also use swords better than with a magic parent on promotion). Fin provides Pursuit and Prayer (for the potential to take a round dodging an entire enemy force), and gives growths that particularly boost Skill and Luck while not giving much Magic. Claude gives them great Magic, Luck and Resistance, gives Tinny A staves and can pass C tomes (and a wasted Valkyrie), and no offensive skills. It can work very well for Tinny, but Arthur will just have one powerful magic attack to work with.

For inheritance, Arthur will want a tome or two for coverage (Elfire if Azel's his dad, the Thunder tome regardless), with rings like the Skill, Speed and Magic rings being a possible option depending on what's free and who hid dad was. If Levin's his dad, the Pursuit and Bargain rings are good for him to work with. Tinny gets Elthunder, and can't get Thoron, so the tomes she might want would be for coverage (she should take Elwind if Levin's her dad), and as for rings something similar to Arthur will be fine if they're free for her.

The substitutes start off as a wind and thunder mage respectively, which does leave them limited for what they can work with (Least they're not fire mages). Amid is further limited by having no Wrath and promoting to a Mage Fighter that can't use staves. So while he's got alright growths for his role, they still are offset by his limit in number of attacks and movement (in comparison to Arthur for sure). Linda is more interesting, being that she's like Tiltyu with Elite to make things SO much easier for promoting her. Once she does promote, she'll have Wrath for nuke attacks, Continue so that she might do more than one attack and B staves. So just a Tiltyu with higher exp gain and more magic, HP and resistance growths in exchange for less speed, skill and luck (Total growths are even the same). Then again, Tiltyu's issues were in availability, and she'll likely be capping most of these stats anyway. 

Arthur gets 7.5/10. Being the first mage and becoming mounted do compensate for a slow start, and of course Forseti wielding horse rider is a horseman of the apocalypse. Keep in mind that there are Arthurs who don't have Levin for a dad, and some of those Arthurs are pretty mediocre at best.

Amid gets 3/10. No horse, no Pursuit, no Holsety, just a decent mage with G2 ahead of him. Boosting his Res and Skill from events won't matter too much.

Tinny gets 6/10. She's either going to be just a bit better than Tiltyu or a bit above that. She's limited by no horse, but she's still using magic in a game where resistance isn't too high regardless. 

Linda gets 5/10. Pretty much is Tiltyu but earlier on in her generation and promoted faster. The game will be harder on her and she's still not mounted, but she still has magic to work with. Boosting her HP and Res is minor.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Dayni

[Darrman]

Before I begin, a disclaimer. I have never paired Tiltyu with anyone that would make her kids decent, and so anything I say is probably going to be inherently negatively biased. Any talk about the insanity of Levin!Arthur, etc, is strictly theory. Anyways, let's begin.

Arthur comes early in the game and is your first mage, arriving halfway through Ch6 sitting by Johalva's castle. All he can really do there is kill bandits, and perhaps grind off useless Dannan who's just a mountain climb away. Chump doesn't even have 1-2 range. No matter what, Arthur is going to come with Wrath, but anything else depends on his parents. He'd like Pursuit, after all. Just hope his dad is Azel in regards to that. Don't be like me on my first playthrough and make dad Claude. That didn't end well.  If his father happens to be Levin, then you earn the prize of Holsety from Ch6. And then he promotes and gets a horse. Holsety on a horse. Holsety on a horse. Did I just hear the game's balance break? No? Eh, whatever. Then everything dies since Holsety and horse. Continue and Critical from Levin also help, and the best part? Get to low health. Find boss. Use Holsety on boss. Boss eats Wrath crit and dies. Doesn't it sound wonderful? He's so strong he doesn't even need Pursuit! Sure he starts on foot, but availability. Horse. Those are pretty nice things. Alas, I decided to make his father Arden in some crazy moment once. Vantage-Wrath wasn't that great for him... but there's a reason Lex is the go-to for that skillset. *cough elite cough*

Is dad Levin? He's amazing. Is dad Azel or something? He's alright, I guess. Is dad anyone else? Meet bench. Let's just assume Levin!Arthur is worth a 9 for the availability and horse, and then I'll execute bias privileges to dock him to an 8.5/10. I can't accuse this guy of being a chump, that's me.

Tinny, on the other hand, is not so competent. She arrives late in Ch7 after being recruited by her long lost brother and... isn't blowing anyone away. She's only like, level 3 and doesn't actually have the weapon rank to inherit anything stronger then a basic tome, and can only use El-ranks with the right blood. At least she starts with Elthunder. That fancy Thoron Tiltyu had? Tinny needs to promote if she wants to use it. Like her brother, Tinny's always going to have Wrath, and if she ever wants to strike twice, she better get Pursuit. At least she gets Continue on promotion. Speaking of promotion, Arthur gets a horse. Tinny? She gets... swords. Swords. On a mage. I don't think so. A nicer bonus is the ability to use staves on promotion as well. You can never have too many staff users, after all. Still no horse, and I can't remember if mage fighters have six movement or not. Honestly, I don't really have much to talk about. She's just... there, being all mediocre and left in the dust and all that. At least she doesn't come as horribly late.

Uh, she's there. I guess she'd like Pursuit. I threw the Pursuit Ring on her once. She was alright. I guess she can take a 5/10 or something. I'll spare her negative bias; her life's enough of a mess as is.

[Hasnbaakoajsbakaiaja]

I will give Arthur a 7.5/10 for a horse, potential early Forseti, and for being the spawn of my favorite parings in FE4 he gets +0.5 bias making his score 8.5/10

Tine gets a 6.5/10 with a +0.5 bias making it 7/10 since I think she is overall better than her brother when they are both mages, but once they promote Arthur beats he because he gets a Mount while she gets Adept and Staves.

Amid is very strange, being a wind mage with minor Tordo blood. Also stuck being a footie. 3/10

Linda is pretty great for a sub, wrath, paragon and holy blood. 5/10 with +0.5 bias making it 5.5/10

[CappnRob]

Tiltyu's kids are perhaps the most effected by their dad than any other pairing in the game. Where as any other pairing will result in at least one kid being useable (if by virtue of the daughter being as good as the mother just slightly better in some regard), the fact that both of Tiltyu's children are foot locked magic users and her daughter comes near the end of chapter 7 means things are a little different here.

Arthur has the potential to be a BLOODY GODDAMN MONSTER if you're a non-canonical loving wretch you pair Tiltyu with Levin, resulting in Forsetti 1/4 into the start of G2 and thus giving you access to the Disc 1 nuke of G2 as it were. Then he promotes and you get Forsetti ON A HORSE, and that really is just as ridonkulous as it sounds. The only other good dad imo for Arthur is Azel, where in Arthur becomes what Azel should've always been: fast, strong, and ACCURATE. Tordo blood makes up for Azel's pitiful skill, and he comes with a wind tome so he can actually double hit. Tiltyu's wrath skill is very nice for clearing arena fights as well, but leveling Arthur is a bit of a pain before the end of chapter 7. Chapter 6 leaves him isolated in the valley where Sophara castle is, and the start of chapter 7 has dark mages that absolutely stomp him due to magic triangle (unless he's packing Forsetti but even that isn't a guarantee at this low level). So until you reach Melgen, he really isn't going to be seeing much action, and even after then due to being a frail mage, he's going to need babysitting to keep up. That said, once he DOES catch up (and he will), he's a solid magic user. Magic defense will blow unless Claude was his dad (why would you do that?), but he'll be fast, hard hitting, and eventually mounted. B rank swords means he can substitute one of his spells for a magic sword too to avoid getting wrecked by long range dark magic, too. 7/10 for me, because I've never actually done a Levin!Arthur.

 

Tinny will generally be as good as Tiltyu, which.... isn't great going by what a lot of people had to say about Tiltyu! But really, Tinny joins around the time Arthur becomes viable (discounting any Forsetting shenanigans), so the two actually end up being pretty evenly matched. Tinny is a lot harder to ruin with her dad than Arthur, but she joins at a low level and relatively weak, and UNLIKE Tiltyu, she lacks access to the badass Torron spell to crutch her, and that is probably her biggest drawback compared to her mom. Tiltyu came late and came weak but could absolutely NUKE everything and gained exp fast. Tinny is far more available and well rounded, but this sort of jack of all trades status impedes her from catching up quickly, though her being a normal mage does mean she can use a standard wind tome (and an Elwind one if Levin was her dad). As for dads, Tinny misses out on Forsetti and Levin's skill set doesn't benefit her as well as it does Arthur because of that, but she can use an Elwind and then Tornado when she promotes. Azel is arguably the better dad for her, as it makes her and Arthur nearly identicle to one another and pursuit greatly helps her overcome he lack of OOMPH in the damage department due to no Torron. Lex gives her elite. That's nice I guess. When she promotes, Tinny becomes a War Mage, which lacks a horse and has pitiful sword access (C only), but  she gets B rank staffs which makes her an excellent candidate for the Silence staff. In fact, with Azel as her dad, she's a better choice than Sety is I usually find. All in all Tinny is nearly exactly like Arthur: a footlocked magic user with great statistical potential but a steep slope to climb to reach it, and unlike Arthur she can't use Forsetti as a crutch. Still, she promotes into a class with great caps and is a good staffbot too, so she also gets a 7/10 for me.

 

Amid is fuckin' weird. He and Linda are the only two subs with holy blood, but Amid despite having Tordo blood is a WIND mage (and kinda looks Silessian too, so I wonder if some shit got lost in translation there). Anyway, this seems designed to fuck with him, because being a Wind Mage means he's wind-locked until promotion, and that means he can't make use of his holy blood until he promotes. However, he can still use an Elwind (when you get one because no inheritance), and his growths are actually pretty good. His skill is continue, which he would've gotten anyway on promotion, so that's a little lame, but War Mage has great promotion gains. Unfortunately, Amid can't use staffs when he promotes fooooor sooooome reaaaason, and that's a real bummer, especially given he lacks a horse to compensate and can still only use C rank swords. He also has the same flaws as Arthur when it comes to being practical, so he only comes out to a 6/10 for me.

 

And then there's Linda. Linda is just weird. Linda is better than Tiltyu. She's a thunder mage, so BAM, Torron out the gate (which you WILL have due to having dealt with Ishtore). She has wrath, like Tiltyu, AND elite, so she's like Tinny with Lex!Dad right? No, she's BETTER. Mostly. I mean, she doesn't have Neir blood so she can't facetank hits, but she compensates by having an actual MAGIC growth. Her other growths are almost exactly like Amid's, maybe a few 10%s swapped around, and she promotes into a War Mage too and being female this means she can use staffs! So she's a fast leveling, high damage packing, critical spitting machine with great promogains and staff usage. Really, Linda can outshine most Tinny's, or at least compete directly with them. She's ridiculous by the low standard subs have set so far, and for that I'm going to have to give her a slightly higher rank than Tinny with 8/10. Elite and Torron really carry her, and while not an early unit she certainly comes soon enough to kick some ass. FE4 you crazy.

[OliKad]

I am not sure if some children (that we haven't covered yet) join your army before Patty does, but I still say that it's time to take a look at best thief, Faval and their really bad substitutes!

At least Daisy gives the Balmung, right?

[qwernst]

Briggid's kids are like Ayra's in that it's really hard to screw them up.

Holyn and Dew are universally praised as the best fathers. But Jamke, Midayle, Noish, Lex, and Beowulf are good too.

Patty looks like she wears 80's workout attire in some of the artwork. And that's a good thing, a thief needs to be fit in a game where just hitting someone steals all of their gold, and probably takes out their credit score. Like Dew she starts out weak, but gets better upon promotion. 8/10.

 

Faval is great no matter the father, since Pursuit is a class skill for him, he'll be able to attack twice. He comes with a holy weapon, it's holy and some people don't like it, but I like it. 8.5/10.

 

Daisy is only needed for two things. Giving Shannan the Balmung, and recruiting Asaello. Lackluster growths, especially in Strength and Magic, make her a joke. 0.5/10.

Asaello is a weaker Faval, but is more helpful than Daisy. 5/10.

[Valkama]

Patty is alright but she's no dew. While passing around money is still helpful, it's not as important as it was gen 1. 6/10. Actually I think I'm overrating thieving in gen 2 a bit. 4.5/10

Daisy is Finn!Patty that can't fight well. Her durability is also shaky and if you don't spent time training her she has a real chance of getting 1 shot. Another issue she has vs Patty is she doesn't receive inheritance which severely hurts her starting funds. She can still do thief things though so 4/10

Faval is pretty terrible. He has a nice bow but it has terrible accuracy and he's still a foot locked archer joining half way through the generation. 2/10

Asaello is like taking the redeeming qualities of Faval and removing them. 1/10

Edited March 7, 2017 by Valkama

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Patty is bleh. She comes up with bad bases and is extremly hard to train. Sleep stave absuing in the arena is just painful. Unlike Dew she doesn't have the possibilty to dodgetank fighters to grab some money and exp. in the chapter she joins. Furthermore money isn't really required in Gen. 2 since you have access to a thief sword early on. The consequence is that she usually kisses the bench in my runs.

3

 

Faval can oneshot Ishtar... but that's pretty much it. Ichivial isn't a good holy weapon because of its high weight and low accuracy. However it's really easy to grind him in the arena. Still a much better combat unit than Patty but it doesn't make him automatically a great unit.

4

Edited March 8, 2017 by Magillanica Lou Mayvin

[Shin]

Faval is kinda scrubby because getting Ichieval, pairing his mother and recruiting him all cost turns. Ignoring those, he's really limited to being a bowlocked foot unit when Lester exists and can pretty much do anything he can with the Killer Bow. Ichieval means you're unlikely to get a bad Faval, but the lack of EP, being on foot and joining in the middle of the second gen means he's not really doing too much. He can probably blow up a few mooky enemies, but he's not likely to fighting anyone important. He's at least flexible, allowing you to focus a pairing on Patty.

3/10

Patty is really dependent on her dad. Briggid's growths are pretty awful and she has no skills, Patty's prepromotion life depends on her dad. Lex lets you cheese the arena with the Sleep Sword and she'll level super quick. She doesn't really have reliable combat until she promotes due to her sucky sword rank and no natural pursuit. However, the ability to give out dosh is pretty neat. When she does promote you're essentially left with an extra foot unit, and it's normally a while before she promotes. She's not winning any awards but she can at least act as piggy bank.

5/10

THE HITMAN is basically Faval but worse in almost every way imaginable. Ironically, his skill set and stats aren't bad but being Jamka in gen 2 is kinda lame. Sucks for pretty much the same reason Faval does, thanks foot bow unit. His special event is funny though.

1.5/10

Daisy is basically Patty gone horribly wrong. She's delicate and can't deal any damage. Getting her to promotion is a real drag and she's less able to share money out. She can't fight and doesn't really have anything to offer beyond sharing perhaps a few grand tops. She's worse than RODDLEBAD, which is a real achievement.

0.5/10

[ZemZem]

Patty:  I think Patty is great, but she isn't as vital for funds as Dew was. At least her combat is superior by quite a bit (gotta love arena sleep sword shenanigans), and she can also make use of magic swords pretty well when stealing money. But really, that's it. She enjoys having Lex as a dad the most, I find. 4.5/10, +1 bias because she's my favorite Jugdral character. 5.5/10

Faval: He's pretty much unscrewable assuming you snag the Ichival/Yewfelle and pair Briggid (I accidentally paired Claude/Briggid in my very first FE4 playthrough, and although Faval's stats were trash, he still promoted quite fine and held his own.). He's a pretty rad archer statwise. But...he's an archer. Without a horse. Not completely useless, though, if he exists. 3.5/10

Daisy: Worse than Patty in every way possible (notably Finn!Patty), but she basically still has the same role. She can still do sleep sword shenanigans in the arena, and she can abuse Prayer. Not useless. 3.5/10

Asaello/Assholio: THE HITMAN OF CONOTE. Shame he's literally garbage. Take away everything that would make Faval remotely useful and the result is this jackass. 1/10

[General Horace]

Patty - Money isn't as important in gen 2 since you have everyone loaded with inheritence and such.  More self sufficient than Dew at least since she can clear the arena (or at least get far).  3/10.

Daisy - totally useless at anything other than passing around money, which is a little more useful in subs runs.  2.5/10.

Faval - Kills things when he reaches them, but is a foot unit with no utilty or enemy phase, 2.5/10

Asaello - Basically Jamka without Continue in gen 2 with worse availability.  So, one of the worst units in the game.  1/10

Edited March 7, 2017 by General Horace

[CappnRob]

Patty is extremely father-dependent and none of her dads are perfectly ideal for her. Holyn can't pass down pursuit but does give Moonlight Sword (though its usefulness on Patty is debatable) and gives B rank swords which allows her to use the hero sword. Dew is a solid choice but she'll be pursuitless until promotion and G2 is less merciful to thieves than G1 was. Jamuka makes her strong I guess? But no inheritence. In general Patty is going to be slow, too, which is a pain for a thief (Dew, Midir and Levin are the only dads who get her seed higher than 35%). Still, being a thief is useful, and she pairs quick with Shanan and he's an arena king so the wealth is easy to spread. Still though, she's hard to keep up with and can easily fall behind, so she gets a 6/10 for me.

 

Faval though is pretty great. He's footloked which is a bit lame and comes at a kinda low level, but he has the Ichival. Yes, its not as good as the other divine weapons, but a 30+10+str damage ranged weapon is still A LOT OF DAMAGE. Faval obliterates anything he attacks, and that combat reliability counts for something. Given he derives his growths from his mom instead of his dad and his class ensures he has pursuit at least, parentage is mostly a matter of flavor for Faval. Holyn helps overcome his skill deficit (and give him the single largest HP growth in the franchise), Jamuka lets him fire more of those goddamn arrows than he really needs (Continue and Duel are overkill with the Ichival tbh), Dew lets him repair it for cheap, you really can't go wrong with his dads. And the Ichival? Look, +10 speed/Str only is lame compared to the obscenity of say Tyrfing or Mystletainn, especially with the 13 weight, but an effectively 3 weight bow that does 40 damage at base is still a goddamn good bow. He tears Thracia's dragon knights apart, and while Travant and Orion might have awareness to save them from the crits, the huge damage output still helps a lot. 7/10, he's only got one job but he does it very well.

 

Daisy is.... okish. She's faster than Patty will ever be short of having Levin as her dad, but her starting HP is abyssmal and her strength will basically never improve. She lacks Dew's bargain, but prayer is nice for cheesing the arena with at least. Like Patty she pairs fast with Shanan so he can be her sugar daddy for spreading the wealth around, and other than that.... not much else to say. Thief Fighter has great promo gains but good luck ever getting Daisy near 20 to use it :Y 5/10 because her utility is still valuable and Patty isn't THAT much better in a straight fight until she promotes (though Patty can probably realistically reach that).

 

Asaello though.... is pretty bad. Solid bases save for his AWFUL luck (though he has a great growth in it), his growths are pretty garbage (10% skill, 20% speed?? no Holy Blood to compensate either!) and Sniper promo gains aren't the best (Str +5 is the best but Str is Asaello's one good growth besides HP). He does have pursuit due to his class so he can double at least and with the brave bow that's quadruple, so he isn't useless... but really, Dimna is better. He comes earlier, has a horse, betterish growths where it matters, and also has pursuit. Asaello is redundant at best. 1/10, his silver bow is nice.

Edited March 8, 2017 by CappnRob

[OliKad]

Karel does have a 210% HP growth, which is higher than Holyn!Patty :P @CappnRob

[CappnRob]

shhh Karel doesn't count he has 1 level up reeee
 

has anyone ever seen Karel's 10% proc for a +3 HP up?

[Yojinbo]

Patty 4/10

Gen 2 gives you instant access to the Thief Sword and one of the most cost-intensive units - your dancer - is quickly paired up with a unit that reliably rampages his way through the arena to hand her money to. Both things severly undermine Patty's utility as a thief unit. She still has the ability to pass around money to staff users, an early money dump for Lana is quite appreciated and since she can just get her money via becoming lovers with Shanan you'll never actually need to use her at all except to distribute the money Shanan makes among the units that need it. It's basically one early cash dump for Lana [which she gets via selling useless rings she inherits] and then later a few minor ones for whoever needs it. Both are nice to have but after Ch.9 she's pretty much useless.

Daisy 4/10

I think she should be given a bit more credit just because of how dire the financial situation for substitute units is in gen 2. A cashdump on Janne at the beginning of Ch.9 can go quite a long way for instance and units like Mana need all the money they can get. Laylea also doesn't inherit anything so where Leen can just sell a few things for cash, Laylea will have to take Daisy's money if you want the Knight Ring and the Leg Ring asap. She might be statistically worse than Patty - but so is Dew who still gets a much better rating than Patty just because of the circumstances. With that in mind I'd find it wrong to give Daisy a worse rating than Patty. Not having Daisy in a substitute run is a bigger loss than not having Patty in a kids run.

Faval 3/10

A bowlocked, footlocked unit that effectively joins you only for the 2nd half on gen 2 sounds terrible on paper and while it's true that Faval isn't very good there's still some use to him. Especially for the final chapter I've grown to like his ability to attack over the ledge before Barharra castle - he's not as safe as Levin!Sety at doing it but he can still snipe some deadlords which is good enough for me. Between that and being able to do stuff in Ch.9 I think he can be kind of worth recruiting though personally still don't bother with it most of the time.

Asaello 0/10

DA HITMAN gets no points from me. The Exp you get for killing him is probably worth more than anything he'll ever be able to contribute to your party and where Faval has things going for him that Lester can't cover [holy weapon!], Asaello has nothing going for him that makes him better than Dimna. Yep, that's right. This guy is outclassed by freaking Dimna. Need I say more?

[Dayni]

This time we get to discuss the most regular of the kids, thieving and taking merc work for the sake of helping orphans, while not knowing they're really Holy blood units despite having the Ichival to prove otherwise. Oh, and Daisy and Asaello, who do the same but don't have a holy bow to prove anything.

Spoiler

These two siblings are going to be limited by their lack of mounts, but they can still have their uses. The thief's role is pretty obvious: steal from everything they can, pass that money on and steal some more. If only this one didn't start like Dew, only with a 12 weight weapon and swordfighters on her heels! They do improve over time though, and can actually fight pretty decently (with one notable exception. We'll get to her). And on promotion they do get Pursuit to improve them. Oh, and she had the Balmung for a bit I guess. The archer has the usual issues of being a bow fighter with no horse, though one thing in this archer's favour is their high strength that allows them to do damage, whenever they get to face the enemy of course.

These kids do have a similarity to Ayra's kids in that they can be pretty solid in the end without their dad in mind. However, unlike with Ayra, how they start is affected by their dad and for Patty in particular it matters what she has to work with. Considering she starts at a low level with just thieving skills and the Sleep sword, she'll need a lot of help to get better. Faval will mostly want skills to allow him to do more attacks (like Charge), as he'll be pretty good with his strength growth regardless and hopefully skill growth because bows have low accuracy for some reason. He should hopefully be able to 1-shot Ishtar with his bases and Ichival, but any way to boost that is appreciated. Dew gives Patty any C swords he had, Sol (so that she has the chance to not need healing) and both kids Bargain, which helps Patty with passing money around (being able to control how much she gives by buying something and then selling at cost after she passed the rest of her money on) and allow Faval to repair the Ichival for half price. For growths, Patty and Favals's non-HP growths will be consistently good, and they're likely to cap their Strength, Speed, Skill and for Faval Luck and Defence too. Holyn passes Luna (which helps when she's facing armours, including those oh so rich barons) and B swords to Patty, while Faval gets nothing of the sort. He's great on their stats and growths though, making Faval the only unit who can feasibly cap HP in FE4 as well as ensuring he'll always have good accuracy and his other growths are still good on average, while Patty is similar, though less so. Jamke gives both kids Charge and Continue, which helps Faval be a machine with the Ichival, while Patty can be happy with more attacks, her start makes it more difficult to use them and can leave her in trouble as well. As for their growths, their low skill is somewhat concerning, but their HP, Strength, Speed, Luck and Defence are still good. Lex gives Elite (helping both of them level up faster, which especially helps Patty) and Ambush (Might be neat for Patty, not so much for Faval). As for growths, they're both good defensively, their skill could be better and they'll also be slower than the other pairings mentioned so far. For Jamke and Lex, make sure that you're passing the Bolt Sword onto Patty, as that's her only chance to get a weapon that isn't 12 weight if they're her dad. Beowolf passes any C rank swords he had, gives Pursuit (which Patty will like) and Charge (which Faval will always like for more damage). The growths are similar to Holyin, with less HP and Skill in exchange for more Strength, though the Strength and Skill differences are minor

For inheritance, Faval would like possibly the Killer Bow, mostly because it's very light weight and cheaper to use, a Steel/Iron bow for the arena and as for rings he'd like the Skill Ring if Holyn's not his dad, a Power Ring can also be good, and I'd consider him a low priority for Bargain ring because of Ichival (If he hasn't got Bargain). Patty can take a return ring even if you're planning on Nanna returning everyone from Lenster, and as for swords a magic sword is great for her stealing and an Iron sword can be nice for the arena, if the enemy has low enough defence, and as silly as it sounds, if nobody else needs it (*cough Leaf Leaf needs it I am stupid), she can take the Pursuit ring and use it very well early on. If Holyn's her dad, she can take a Steel sword instead of iron, and possibly the Brave Sword or an Armourslayer (though many other units will want these instead).

The substitutes are just plain worse. The only stat Daisy'll have better than Patty is admittedly speed. But 10% magic and strength growths (and 3 base strength) means she has atrocious offence, which might not matter for her role as a thief, but her skill is also bad, making hitting things to get money less likely too. And her bulk is so paper thin that even having Prayer may not save her ass. She does get an event to boost Skill and Speed by three. If that Speed were Strength, this would be great. Also, no Pursuit at base, but at least she'll get it. That aside, being able to pass money matters, especially among the subtitutes where she'd be most likely to be anyway. Asaello would be good in a game where bases were 20 at most, but his bases are pretty consistently worse than pretty much any Faval, and with growths like 10% Skill (That's terrible for his weapon) and 20% Speed not going to exceed them. He does get Charge, but he'll be less able to activate it than any Faval what with his lower HP and Speed growths. And of course no Ichival to speak of, so he doesn't get a 40 might weapon to allow him to do massive damage. And his secret event boosts Strength. You know, if that was swapped for Speed that'd be cool too. FFS FE4.

Patty gets 5/10. Thieving utility is nice even in G2 (much as more units can make money themselves), she does end up solid across the board and can fight fine (once she's promoted). Her start is very difficult, and she'll have to be given a lot to make sure she gets to that point though. The bias is because she can be pretty great depending on her dad.

Daisy gets 2.5/10. Pretty much this is for utility: her combat is consistently atrocious, she has some of the worst defensive parameters and she's stuck with the Sleep Sword to start. Negative bias for being utterly poor at combat, something Patty can overcome.

Faval gets 5.5/10. Even as a foot unit, he's got a powerful holy weapon (much as Ichival should have been buffed). Being bow locked isn't the best news, however he'll always have a solid base to work off of. Being a unit who can 1-shot a Holy Weapon user at base is also neat, hence the bias.

Asaello gets 2/10. He's still got a bow in Thracia, but even still his potential is severely limited there, and afterwards doesn't have much to grow with. He at least has a Silver Bow to do some damage with, but he kinda sucks for a hitman.

[Valkama]

1 hour ago, Dayni said:

She's stuck with the Sleep Sword to start.

In Daisy's defense, she has a prayer setup with the mercs which makes Shanan's survival chances to become more consistent. The sleep sword is probably the best thing they could have given her.

[Dayni]

1 hour ago, Valkama said:

In Daisy's defense, she has a prayer setup with the mercs which makes Shanan's survival chances to become more consistent. The sleep sword is probably the best thing they could have given her.

Besides Prayer being useful for a turn (which might be all that's needed :) . Or not, depending on what's left after that turn), her HP happens to be just low enough to pull it off. So that's more of a negative against Patty, isn't it? Besides, with the Balmung Shanan can take the mercs just fine and it's then about trying to not get hit by the dark mages. But depending on the Sleep sword to proc is itself a risk too, or am I misinterpreting that from what you're saying?

But outside of that, the Sleep sword is alright to put an enemy to sleep and after that really not much else. Daisy is on 1 speed at base, Pattys will always be on less.

[Valkama]

4 minutes ago, Dayni said:

But depending on the Sleep sword to proc is itself a risk too, or am I misinterpreting that from what you're saying?

No that's about right. She can pretty much delay combat against Shanan for a turn and maybe completely neutralize some threats. With Patty your better off just passing a return ring down to her and having her return back to the castle after she gives the Balmung. It's one of the few points in the game where Daisy will outperform Patty even if it's only marginal.

[Dayni]

2 minutes ago, Valkama said:

No that's about right. She can pretty much delay combat against Shanan for a turn and maybe completely neutralize some threats. With Patty your better off just passing a return ring down to her and having her return back to the castle after she gives the Balmung. It's one of the few points in the game where Daisy will outperform Patty even if it's only marginal.

I did mention giving the return ring to Patty rather than risking it, so yeah I agree on this case.

Still, it is a risky way of going about it. So I'd still be concerned about doing it.

[Dandy Druid]

Faval 

It's a shame Faval comes in so late, because him being a foot unit would've been fine in Ch.6 and Ch.7. He has the Ichival, and he's damn lucky Lester was screwed out of getting Major Ulir blood or Faval would've been benched. (Still confused how Aideen didn't have major holy blood, but her IDENTICAL TWIN SISTER did. Suspicious.) Anyway, Faval has a decent amount of conversations, 5. However his only 'predestined' loved is his cousin. I know it's FE4, but seriously his cousin. I feel like the developers kind of got lazy on him due to his lack of choices, like Delmud and another character coming up soon. Also interesting to note that on the Jealousy chart, he prioritized Altenna the most. Freaking Altenna who doesn't have a love growth (has anyone tried to pair them up though?) Overall he gets a 6.5/10

Patty

Patty is a cutie, and that's about it. Most people already have their weapons sorted out so people don't really need money as much. But she's useful for money-dumping Lana and Laylea though. She has a nice 7 amount of conversations, with 3 predestined lovers, so that's good. And of course, one of them is her cousin. (...) Anyways she's not a front line unit so she's low priority compared to some other units. But she is one of the few thieves in the entire series that can actually fight though. 5/10

Asaello

Asaello's targets as a hitman must not be too skilled because he's not that great. At least Faval gets a holy weapon, justifying his use. Asaello is just kind of there. He has an interesting backstory though, so points for being interesting (but that's the only good thing about him). Unlike most subs, he doesn't have an equal amount of conversations. He has 3.... yeah it's not looking to good for him. Is Mana his cousin? Because he's interesting, 2.5/10

Daisy

Literally the weakest substitute, scratch that, weakest character in the entire game. But that doesn't make her useless, just so hard to use. She's like a more fragile but mobile version of Arden gameplay-wise. Here's where she makes up for her ever so noticeable shortcomings: in a sub run, her role becomes a lot more vital and important than Patty's in a holy Run. Also, like her brother, Daisy doesn't have the same amount of conversations as Patty. But it's for the better, she has 8! One more than Patty. Plus she lives for the drama so 3/10

 

[Hasnbaakoajsbakaiaja]

Wow I am shocked at how low of scores Faval is getting. I had Dew as his father and he did phenomenal work. Having Bargain is great. +10 Str and Spd is also useful. And usually  capping everything besides Res. Of course he is a footie and an archer so... 7.5/10 with a +0.5 bias.

Patty is also great. A bit better version of her father and access to all the gold coins in Jugdral. Also a pretty great combat unit after promotion. 5.5/10 with a +0.5 bias.

Both Asaello and Daisy are horrible. Daisy gets a 2.5/10 with a +0.5 bias while Asaello gets a plain 2/10

[CappnRob]

Faval is good but inflexible which I think is what hurts him so much. Lacking a mount and coming late with the most lackluster holy weapon (though still a very good weapon in general) and being unable to counterattack most foes on enemy phase severely limits his usefulness. He's a single shot missile launcher that obliterates anything he hits and not much else.