Mounted-only Conquest run: Unit advice?

[Alastor15243]

So after I beat endgame on my Conquest draft, I'm planning on doing a run of Conquest using the following rules:

1: Units cannot use master seals unless it will result in them promoting into a mounted class, and units level 21 or higher who are not on a mount cannot perform any action other than "wait", "pair up", or using a class change seal (debating whether or not Azura should be excluded from this, I'm tempted to use the abundance of mounted units to have fun with shelter-singing for the first time). Offspring seals can be used as normal, but again, if they're not in a mounted class as a result, they can't do much.

2: Units can only enter guard stance if one of the two units has dragon blood.

Basically, for the first half of the game things are normal aside from the limits on who can guard stance, just to make sure the beginning isn't horribly restrictive and that dark knight, great knight, kinshi knight, mechanist, and bow knight aren't needlessly difficult to get into, but once units start promoting, everyone has to be on a horse, pegasus, kinshi, wyvern or karakuri in order to participate. There are two purposes to this: 1, I want to see how the game plays when everyone's mounted, and 2, I want to restrict my guard stance use so that I have more active fighters, in the hopes of having an honest-to-goodness "air force" on my team rather than just one or two fliers.

The plan is to make Xander, Leo, Camilla and the Avatar my guard stance fighters, with the Avatar being a dark knight. Selena would support Xander, Felicia would support Leo, and I haven't decided for Camilla and the Avatar. The Avatar should have access to every mounted class so I plan on taking her through most of them in the hopes of getting her Elbow Room, Malefic Aura and Trample for between 5-10 bonus damage to boost her magical attacks rather than the procstacking I usually rely on. Should that be enough damage for the avatar to one-round enemies as a dark knight, or do I need to go magic boon instead of speed to make that work?

Also, I'm torn between taking the opportunity to make Azura a kinshi knight and taking the opportunity to shelter-abuse Azura's dancing, so I'm not sure if she's exempt from the mount rule. Any suggestions on that point as to whether or not Azura should be exempt?

But more importantly, I'm looking for recommendations for what units I should use. Remember, it's not just units who start mounted, it's units that can realistically become mounted by the time they promote. Who would you recommend I put on my team?

Edited December 22, 2016 by Alastor15243

[eclipse]

Are Heart/Partner/Friendship Seals allowed? If so, how many of each?

See what units you get before deciding what you'll do about Azura.

[Vorena]

Kaze to mechanist.

[Alastor15243]

Are Heart/Partner/Friendship Seals allowed? If so, how many of each?

See what units you get before deciding what you'll do about Azura.

Yes, those are allowed as normal, as are eternal seals if for whatever reason I decide to buy them.

My ultimate hope is to have at least one of every mounted class on my team.

My current thoughts are:

Avatar@DK / Jakob@?

Xander@Paladin / Selena@FalconKnight

Leo@DK / Felicia@Maid (Pair-up bots can be any class)

Camilla@MaligKnight / ?

Azura@Songstress or Avatar!Dwyer@Strategist (Frankly, if I can't use Azura as a songstress I'm not going to use her at all once she's married to Laslow. She's waaaaaaay too fragile for physical combat)

Laslow@Mechanist or FalconKnight (He's going to go through Bow Knight, Falcon Knight and Mechanist to become a sufficiently powerful rally bot, and he's probably going to end in Falcon Knight)

Mozu@KinshiKnight

Arthur@GreatKnight

Mozu!Percy@WyvernLord (Hoping to get him as soon as possible as from my tests it looks like aptitude does nothing to the non-offspring-seal auto levels)

Niles@BowKnight

Elise@Strategist

Laslow!Shigure@FalconKnight

Anyone recommend any changes?

[Avalanche]

I've always used Wyvern Lord Camilla (dipping into Malig when needed for skills), but that's just me. If you're going to use Jakob for combat, I'd go with Paladin for the slightly higher Speed base and Defender. This idea has actually gotten me kind of curious to try out a Mounts only Birthright run. Maybe soon.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Avalanche

[eclipse]

Hmmm. . .Mozu's okay, but I feel like there's better options. What about the following:

- Have Arthur marry Camilla instead

- Use Soliel/Shigure as a Kinshi Knight (Soliel can gain bow rank by using the Child Seal on Bow Knight), or possibly Soliel as a Mechanist (since she REALLY likes Replicate)

- Let Azura sing until Shigure/Soliel are born, then have Dwyer replace her

[Alastor15243]

I've always used Wyvern Lord Camilla (dipping into Malig when needed for skills), but that's just me. If you're going to use Jakob for combat, I'd go with Paladin for the slightly higher Speed base and Defender. This idea has actually gotten me kind of curious to try out a Mounts only Birthright run. Maybe soon.

Yeah, I really wish Camilla had a better magic base so that staying in Malig Knight had more of a point to it. But since I want to have one of every class, I'm kinda stuck since most of the other non-avatar options are even worse, and I'm not locking the avatar out of swords when the Shadow Yato comes along.

Hmmm. . .Mozu's okay, but I feel like there's better options. What about the following:

- Have Arthur marry Camilla instead

- Use Soliel/Shigure as a Kinshi Knight (Soliel can gain bow rank by using the Child Seal on Bow Knight), or possibly Soliel as a Mechanist (since she REALLY likes Replicate)

- Let Azura sing until Shigure/Soliel are born, then have Dwyer replace her

Thanks for the advice, but I kinda already went through with Mozu. I didn't know if this qualified as one of the threads you're allowed to double-post on when you have something relevant to add, and the thread seemed dead at the time so I went ahead with it and I'm on chapter 12. Either way, whoever I choose to marry Camilla is probably just going to be a pair-up bot, somebody who gets just enough training to promote early and then stays in Camilla's pocket the rest of the game. And I've actually gotten really good levels with this Arthur so I think I'm going to keep using him. Besides, I've checked out Percy's growths as a wyvern lord with Mozu as a mother and aptitude, they're ludicrous, I've gotta have him.

And yeah, I'm gonna drop Azura as soon as Laslow marries her, I realized the other day that shelter abuse can't really be done when only the royals can use guard stance.

[Avalanche]

If you're looking for an insta-promote Pair Up bot for Camilla, Benny will probably fit the role nicely. Toss him a Master Seal in his join Chapter (Great Knight for the extra Movement he'll give to Camilla, General for better bulk) and they'll be set. As a bonus, the resulting Ignatius will have access to 3 Tier 2 Mounted classes and the Growths to make really any of them work. He could be a solid fill in Great Knight if Arthur isn't quite working out for you and you still want to stick to the "1 Character per class" rule.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Avalanche

[Alastor15243]

If you're looking for an insta-promote Pair Up bot for Camilla, Benny will probably fit the role nicely. Toss him a Master Seal in his join Chapter (Great Knight for the extra Movement he'll give to Camilla, General for better bulk) and they'll be set. As a bonus, the resulting Ignatius will have access to 3 Tier 2 Mounted classes and the Growths to make really any of them work. He could be a solid fill in Great Knight if Arthur isn't quite working out for you and you still want to stick to the "1 Character per class" rule.

(Checks growth rates)

Hm... that's... actually not a bad idea at all! I just wish it would let me capitalize a bit more on Camilla's magic since she's really my best non-avatar bet for a malig knight unless Leo marries Beruka or something.

...Hang on...

...would that work out well enough? I could promote Beruka to Malig Knight for better pair-up bonuses, then the Avatar could be the dark knight, Camilla could be a wyvern lord, and Leo could be my malig knight. Any issues besides increased arrow vulnerability among my guard-stance frontliners?

[Avalanche]

(Checks growth rates)

Hm... that's... actually not a bad idea at all! I just wish it would let me capitalize a bit more on Camilla's magic since she's really my best non-avatar bet for a malig knight unless Leo marries Beruka or something.

...Hang on...

...would that work out well enough? I could promote Beruka to Malig Knight for better pair-up bonuses, then the Avatar could be the dark knight, Camilla could be a wyvern lord, and Leo could be my malig knight. Any issues besides increased arrow vulnerability among my guard-stance frontliners?

Malig Leo is pretty tempting, but it does require some hoop jumping. Until She goes Malig Knight, Beruka gives Leo pretty meh pair up bonuses (all he'd really benefit from is a little more Skill), so that might require her to hop into Fighter for its Speed bonus. Once Leo gets Malig Knight, he'll likely still want to have Felicia be his bot, simply for the Speed. Forrest getting Malig could pheasibly be a boon too.

TLDR: If you really want a good Magic using Malig Knight, give it a shot. Still, I think Camilla with a Bolt Axe could fulfil this niche too.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Avalanche

[eclipse]

Since this is half a runthrough log, I'll allow double-posts from TC only, but only if they're significant updates on the run/character builds/character pairings (so no Twitter-like updates, and I'll let it go).

[Alastor15243]

Right, so, progress report! Currently in the middle of chapter 18, and the run is officially in full swing. Everyone promoted last chapter and I just got Dwyer after chapter 17. I was originally going to wait a chapter, but found myself with a few extra spare master seals and an inconvenient class for the Avatar, so I got him early.

This proved to be a mistake, as Dwyer got some astonishingly terrible level ups. Thankfully his main purpose is as a rally and aura bot, but I hope this doesn't hinder his training too much to reach 15 by the end of the game.

Anyway, Arthur was decent for a while, but his damned speed got him in the end yet again. Strangely i basically forgot about his crit vulnerability because not only did he get several lucky levels in luck, but his attack stance bonuses with Mozu heavily protected him from crits as well. But yeah, his speed is a measly 15 and I can't justify a master seal and heart seal on that. It's a shame, I want so badly to like Arthur. I can work around his luck, but that speed, he never gets good speed!

So yeah, looks like Ignatius will be filling the GK role. His speed growth is surprisingly good with Camilla as his mom, I only hope he can outgrow his probably terrible base speed. I'll figure that out when I get him. Maybe if need be I can pair him up with Azura, that would help with his run-inconvenient personal skill too. Speaking of which...

I kinda lost track of Azura's level and had her singing until level 23. I forgot how fast she levels. Anyway, she's out of the party now that Laslow's got his falcon knight access.

Mozu's doing okay but she's somewhat strength screwed, reaching 15 at level 20 archer. But as a kinshi knight there are worse stats to be screwed in.

Percy is amazing. Continuously good levels, he's catching up in damage output to the royal family!

Camilla's doing great too. This is the first time I've had her pair up to fight, and now i see why people speak so highly of her. She's still in malig knight and her magic is growing nicely, though her bolt axe certainly helps.

Laslow's doing great too, in falcon knight and training to get Rally Speed. Then I'll switch him to Mechanist for replicate to pass it on to his kids. I'm going to be needing both of them because Niles was a legendary disappointment. 10 strength at level 17! TEN!

Dakota, my avatar, is doing great too, though that's a bit of a given. She just left paladin for malig knight and all of her stats are holding out great. Currently paired up with Nyx to unlock DK in time for level 15, then I'll pair her with Jakob.

...Who was great for the first few chapters but then fell way behind again. I made him a wyvern lord for rally defense for Dwyer (Dakota gave her Demoiselle after two levels in strategist) and his speed kept him from staying competitive.

Leo's doing... okay. Not fantastic, but he's a decent fighter and he's allowed be in guard stance so he's indispensable by default. I chickened out of making him a malig knight, so he's marrying Felicia.

Xander is fantastic. I paired him with Selena right away and gave him a speed wing, and suddenly he's fast enough to double most normal enemies. I'm tempted to reclass Selena from bow knight to falcon knight just to boost his res a bit and make him even stronger. I plan on passing him through Bow Knight to see if I can get him strong riposte and shurikenbreaker, but that's not for a while.

Elise got speed screwed, but hopefully that won't stick, and every other stat is growing fine or better.

Thanks for your advice, it really helped!

Edited December 26, 2016 by Alastor15243

[Alastor15243]

So, quick update, I'm at chapter 27 with two paralogues to spare

Ignatius turned out pretty good, though I needed him paired up with Soleil to be able to double consistently. Speaking of which...

Holy cow is Bow Knight Soleil a menace, especially with replicate. The ability to completely laugh off silver knife maids with shurikenbreaker is so amazing. I don't know why I never used bow knight before.

Speaking of which, I took Xander through Bow Knight and I do not regret it at all. Four levels in it and suddenly the hall of pain is so much less of a nightmare thanks to, again, shurikenbreaker.

Mozu wound up being more HP screwed than Str screwed; she's sitting at 30 hp at level 15 kinshi knight. Her offense actually still isn't all that great, and she can only do chip damage to anything not flying. But she's handy at least for that.

Camilla went to dark knight for levels 16-20 and wound up being quite magically effective. Helps I reclassed Benny to malig knight.

Shigure's not doing so hot outside of using beastkillers, staves and replicate to provide oddjob support. I'm hoping to use the remaining paralogues to get him to lance rank A for a brave lance to bolster his offensive capabilities.

Incidentally, this is my first time recruiting Ignatius. His paralogue isn't as bad as I had heard, but then I did it just barely after offspring seals show up. I paired him with Soleil and holy crap were their first two supports creepy as hell on Soleil's end. I think I like Ignatius. He's kiiinda like Yarne except he tries way harder to overcome his fears.

[Avalanche]

Glad this is turning out well (though we'll see how Endgame treats you). I've always had that same issue with Mozu too, specifically as a Kinshi Knight. Happy to hear Ignatius did okay, he's always been a kid I've wanted to try out, but never have simply due to me never using his dad.

[Alastor15243]

Well THAT was easy.

I stomped the endgame in 5 turns. Having everyone at 8-9 move made this surprisingly easy, and with Xander having Shurikenbreaker the normally annoying task of clearing the path forward was much easier. I did have to use rescue instead of dancing to safely silence the hexing rod great master though, but once I did that the maid was down instantly, and then the next turn the great master, and the turn after that, down went Takumi to a combination of Dakota and Xander.

My final thoughts:

Funds: Once again I had no trouble with money. I had a minimum budget limit of half the money I had gained in total at any given point, and by the end of the game I had enough to buy four eternal seals, one each for Dakota, Leo, Xander and Camilla, as well as a couple brave weapons and full tonics for the party for endgame.

Experience: basically everyone got to level 20 and in some cases 25. Due to my pair-ups, paralogues were plentiful. I even broke my previous record for getting Laslow to level 15 mechanist, getting Replicate before chapter 22. Even then I had two paralogues basically to spare, I hardly needed them and just did them for the hell of it and to give Leo a few of his eternal seal levels.

Efficiency: this I could have done better on, though it's only really my style to be efficient when my patience wears thin. Mozu's paralogue took well over 50 turns, as I used it to feed nearly the whole map to archer Mozu using the southeast bridge as a bottleneck. It meant Mozu was in fighting shape immediately, but then she didn't work out the best in the long run.

Difficulties: This party was slower on average than most of my runs. The biggest offender was my Avatar, who due to a combination of going mag boon over speed and dark knight over Nohr noble was no longer the ninja-doubling speed demon I'm used to her being. On the other hand, actually being able to rely on her magic stat for magic damage rather than my usual insane arsenal of procs meant she was an enemy phase sweeper far sooner than normal for me. Also, as I said, Mozu, Arthur and Niles turned out to be disappointments to varying degrees (though thankfully Mozu and Arthur at least made an amazing son).

Pleasant surprises: this is the first time I've made real serious use of Percy, Soleil, Ignatius and Camilla, and they were all great. Turns out Camilla's major issue was just that I never gave her a pair up partner, and after taking all of my spirit dust since nobody else needed it, her Magic was more than acceptable as well. I took her through dark knight for the skills and she never slowed down. Ignatius needed some help and never made any significant contributions owing to having no fast 1-2 range or any crucial niche,, but anyone who can cap speed in great knight while still having stellar defense and strength gets a thumbs up in my book. And then there's Percy. Holy cow Percy was a monster. Thanks to aptitude, he capped everything but HP, mag and res. Even without a pair up partner he was one of my best units, and when I gave him a brave axe he became almost as good at killing Ninjas and maids as Soleil. And holy cow Soleil. While I still maintain that her personality is terrible, it seems i was wrong to not want to see more of her gameplay wise. She was so amazingly useful for the final seven chapters of the game, easily my fastest unit and a highly reliable maidstomper. She was awesome.

Things I'd do different: while Arthur and Mozu were worth it for Percy, I think this is the death of my efforts to use Arthur as a serious combat unit. I can handle his luck problem, his speed always gets him in the end, and especially for this run that was unacceptable. Poor Arthur, I want so badly to like him. It's just that he's competing for speed wing priority with XANDER.

Anyway, I had fun with this. I'm thinking I might try it again on lunatic once I beat that normally.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Alastor15243