Analysis on Fates' armor design in comparison to the Tellius and GBA games.

[OakTree]

Apologies if people think this topic should go to the Fates board.

TL;DR: Fates' female armor design is stupid, but the male armor design is some of the best in the series, GBA games have okay designs, and Tellius' designs are just as impractical as Fates' female design.

Edited February 13, 2017 by OakTree

[Nym]

I mean... it doesn't take a lot of time to realize that they pretty much went for fanservice armor over realistic armor for the female.

The text was interesting, but pretty much everyone knew about the fanservice.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Nym

[Water Mage]

It's kinda funny, with the exception of the breast area, Nephenee's armor is very fanservice oriented. Actually, Tellius has plenty designs that are fanservice oriented or that are very unrealistic.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Excellent analysis, but what I need most is an explanation for the GBA era armor knight whose chestplate detaches into his off hand to use as a shield. You might want to keep that on, buddy. Most real life knights clad in armor didn't carry shields since there was nothing else on their upper body to protect. So keep both hands free to swing a weapon as these faster, light armored guys look for an opening. Also, the chain spear/axe of the generals is a bizarre attack animation, but this isn't a weapon discussion (and boy is there a lot to talk about for this series. Hey Marth, nice "Falchion").

15 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

It's kinda funny, with the exception of the breast area, Nephenee's armor is very fanservice oriented. Actually, Tellius has plenty designs that are fanservice oriented or that are very unrealistic.

I see where you're about to go with this, and you leave the mini-skirt mage out of it!

[Water Mage]

41 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

Excellent analysis, but what I need most is an explanation for the GBA era armor knight whose chestplate detaches into his off hand to use as a shield. You might want to keep that on, buddy. Most real life knights clad in armor didn't carry shields since there was nothing else on their upper body to protect. So keep both hands free to swing a weapon as these faster, light armored guys look for an opening. Also, the chain spear/axe of the generals is a bizarre attack animation, but this isn't a weapon discussion (and boy is there a lot to talk about for this series. Hey Marth, nice "Falchion").

I see where you're about to go with this, and you leave the mini-skirt mage out of it!

Actually the GBA General has a japanese feel to me, kinda like a shogun or something.

And I wasn't going to mention the mini-skirt mage, so thanks for reminding me! Actually most female mages in Tellius wear clothes unsuited for battle, like Calill and Sanaki. The only female mage in Tellius that wear clothes suited for fighting is Micaiah, and I only mean her first set of clothes. Speaking of unsuited for combat, Elincia, Marcia and Tanith also has questionable clothes choices for combat, especially Elincia, whose armor seems to be cerimonial instead of being for battle.

Back to fanservice, there's Lyre and Vika who were most likely designed with fanservice in mind, especially Lyre. 

Edited February 13, 2017 by Water Mage

[Busterman64]

Huh...well I learned a lot today! Quite an interesting read! 

I never really thought about there armor much before. 

I will say, the dong plate isn't too bad for The Black Knight or Zelgius since they're not the fastest guys around and well...don't wanna have cheap shots, ya know? 

As for armor knights...eh...I think they can only do so much. That's why they need shields. The ones in Awakening and Fates have the better protection, I will admit(although I think the helmets of the generic knights, while it protects their heads, it kinda kills their vision, which may screw them over). However, it makes the armor much heavier, so you need someone stronger in order to hold it up(which is probably why you never see or get many armored knights. There are probably not too many soldiers who can handle all that armor and do the job well).

Lastly, looking at almost all of the armor designs, I've noticed...a lot of the armor has either the thighs and/or waist(or kidneys) exposed in some way or form. I think it's kinda hard to make armor that protects those areas(not to mention GOOD armor) since everyone's sizes are different. The upper torso probably isn't as hard since, for some armor, you just mainly need to strap the front and back piece together or or slip into the whole armor. Besides, with more armor that's more weight, and depending on what class you are, that could be a possible detrimate. Sturdier pieces of armor is most likely heavier, so while they need good armor, they need still movability. Don't really excuse the huge pauldrons much though... 

Then again, most armor is better then no armor(but I guess it depends on the fighting style).

 

4 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

It's kinda funny, with the exception of the breast area, Nephenee's armor is very fanservice oriented. Actually, Tellius has plenty designs that are fanservice oriented or that are very unrealistic.

Think the reason why most people don't flank the games for it(other then not a lot of people playing it) is probably because...well...it never came to mind. That and the characters themselves don't clash too hard against their design(...well, except IIyana's mini-skirt, can't really defend that. Still love her though ). They looked more cool then anything else, so maybe that's another reason...

[Water Mage]

2 minutes ago, Busterman64 said:

Huh...well I learned a lot today! Quite an interesting read! 

I never really thought about there armor much before. 

I will say, the dong plate isn't too bad for The Black Knight or Zelgius since they're not the fastest guys around and well...don't wanna have cheap shots, ya know? 

As for armor knights...eh...I think they can only do so much. That's why they need shields. The ones in Awakening and Fates have the better protection, I will admit(although I think the helmets of the generic knights, while it protects their heads, it kinda kills their vision, which may screw them over). However, it makes the armor much heavier, so you need someone stronger in order to hold it up(which is probably why you never see or get many armored knights. There are probably not too many soldiers who can handle all that armor and do the job well).

Lastly, looking at almost all of the armor designs, I've noticed...a lot of the armor has either the thighs and/or waist(or kidneys) exposed in some way or form. I think it's kinda hard to make armor that protects those areas(not to mention GOOD armor) since everyone's sizes are different. The upper torso probably isn't as hard since, for some armor, you just mainly need to strap the front and back piece together or or slip into the whole armor. Besides, with more armor that's more weight, and depending on what class you are, that could be a possible detrimate. Sturdier pieces of armor is most likely heavier, so while they need good armor, they need still movability. Don't really excuse the huge pauldrons much though... 

Then again, most armor is better then no armor(but I guess it depends on the fighting style).

 

Think the reason why most people don't flank the games for it(other then not a lot of people playing it) is probably because...well...it never came to mind. That and the characters themselves don't clash too hard against their design(...well, except IIyana's mini-skirt, can't really defend that. Still love her though ). They looked more cool then anything else, so maybe that's another reason...

I would say Nephenee's Sentinel armor also clashes with her personality. I mean, the armor shows her tights, arms and her entire face. Compare her Sentinel armor to Aran's Sentinel armor. It's really jarring.

[Busterman64]

24 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

I would say Nephenee's Sentinel armor also clashes with her personality. I mean, the armor shows her tights, arms and her entire face. Compare her Sentinel armor to Aran's Sentinel armor. It's really jarring.

True, looking at Aran's and Danved's(or was it Devdan), there isn't much reason for her to have her legs and tights shown really(although she has more of helmet then devdan...I mean Danved has).

Spoiler

 

[Enaluxeme]

You really can find flaws everywhere in the armors, weapons and probably tactics of every fire emblem game ever. While the specific style of the artworks varyes from game to game, all are very exaggerated and "animesque".

Still, if they tried to go for a more realistic game the balance would go out of the window, so...

[Zapp Branniglenn]

28 minutes ago, Enaluxeme said:

You really can find flaws everywhere in the armors, weapons and probably tactics of every fire emblem game ever. While the specific style of the artworks varyes from game to game, all are very exaggerated and "animesque".

Still, if they tried to go for a more realistic game the balance would go out of the window, so...

I really don't see a relationship between gameplay balance and aesthetic designs for units. Drawing more armor on a character portrait doesn't suddenly drop their speed growth by 5%. An artist doesn't stop with their pen and say "gosh, I hope this isn't too hard of a boss for the player...". Gameplay balance is handled by a separate set of designers who don't know and don't need to know how the game will eventually look.

[vanguard333]

One thing though that is a large point in the Tellius games' favour (and I am by no means going to say that the armour worn in the Tellius games is perfectly realistic) is that the armour is more streamlined than that in Fates (another point would be the whole upper chest is protected (cough Camilla cough)): For example, the generals' pauldrons are oversized in Tellius but they are oversized in every game, even Fates. Also, in Fates, just like in Awakening, the pauldrons are spherical, silly-looking, and have dangling bits of metal that do nothing except add weight. I'll admit that I was impressed with quite a bit of the Nohrian armour in Fates for the males (General excluded); especially liking the blend of Medieval and Roman armour. However, then look at Hoshido: Tsubaki only has armour on his upper arms when his job is to protect a princess, Ryoma's "helmet" does very little and he has Massive "dong armour" with absolutely no armour on the sides or back, the master of arms class has massive dong armour, and quite a few other things I could point out.

[SavageVolug]

First of all EVERY FE game has examples of unrealistic armor in one way or another, with that said however I really feel that both Awakening and Fates take the cake for this one. It is true that older games are not completely realistic but I do think that overall the pauldrons, breast plates ect. are a good design and look defensable. Whereas someone please explain the point of Vaike's metal collar, it serves no purpose. While Boyd who does have bare arms at the same time does have practical pauldrons and something resembling gloves. And Harr the king of Dragon Lords, looks absolutely indestructible with Jill looking almost as tanky. The only difference was that Harr has a helmet and Jill doesn't. So in conclusion, all Fire Emblem games have examples of unrealistic armor, but I still feel that by comparison the GBA games, and the Tellius games have better designed armor as a whole. Compare the Marshall class to Fates' General, the Gold/Silver Knights to Awakening's Paladin, the Sentinal to Fates' Spear Master ect.

[Vaximillian]

8 hours ago, Water Mage said:

Speaking of unsuited for combat, Elincia, Marcia and Tanith also has questionable clothes choices for combat…

At least Tanith is sensible enough to wear pants! (Or are those tights? I'm bad at women's clothing)

[NekoKnight]

Not really breaking new ground here. Fates' armor design for males is often praised, and it's just several female outfits that draw ire. I don't need the game to be hyper-realistic. Fire Emblem is still a fantasy setting so 'rule of cool' can be applied to armor designs, to an extent. The issue often brought up is the overt sexualization of female outfits compared to males. Past games had some dodgy outfits as well, but that's not an excuse for females being forced into battle-thongs. There are "stylistic choices" and then there are ass-windows on armor knights.

Kudos to the author for doing their armor research, however.

Edited February 14, 2017 by NekoKnight

[Ryuke]

On 2/13/2017 at 10:42 AM, OakTree said:

Apologies if people think this topic should go to the Fates board.

TL;DR: Fates' female armor design is stupid, but the male armor design is some of the best in the series, GBA games have okay designs, and Tellius' designs are just as impractical as Fates' female design.

 

You forgot Olivia Awakening ... it's even worse.Unlike Azura.. she really isnt wearing much.

[Drakran]

can you call hawkeye for fanservice compare it with charlotte

[Jotari]

On 2/14/2017 at 1:57 AM, Water Mage said:

I would say Nephenee's Sentinel armor also clashes with her personality. I mean, the armor shows her tights, arms and her entire face. Compare her Sentinel armor to Aran's Sentinel armor. It's really jarring.

Thing about that though is that you need battle animations turned on to see it and well, I for one, like to actually finish these's games before I grow old.

10 hours ago, Ryuke said:

 

You forgot Olivia Awakening ... it's even worse.Unlike Azura.. she really isnt wearing much.

She's not a combat unit though. It's literally her job to stand there and look pretty. The fan service is essentially an aspect in universe. The only strange thing is that she dresses like that and is meant to be a resident of the coldest part of the continent...which has African style black people.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Jotari

[Magical Glace]

Olivia's style of dress makes perfect sense, she's a dancer.  Same goes for other strippy dancers (ie Larum/Lalum).  It's literally their job to perform and appeal to whatever audience they can.

There's a pretty big difference, in my eyes, between fanservice that makes sense in context (ex. Olivia, Larum) and fanservice that doesn't (ex Camilla, Nephenee).

[Tuvy]

I feel like fe11 has the best armor knights.

[Ryuke]

9 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Olivia's style of dress makes perfect sense, she's a dancer.  Same goes for other strippy dancers (ie Larum/Lalum).  It's literally their job to perform and appeal to whatever audience they can.

There's a pretty big difference, in my eyes, between fanservice that makes sense in context (ex. Olivia, Larum) and fanservice that doesn't (ex Camilla, Nephenee).

 

 

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

She's not a combat unit though. It's literally her job to stand there and look pretty. The fan service is essentially an aspect in universe. The only strange thing is that she dresses like that and is meant to be a resident of the coldest part of the continent...which has African style black people.

 

But Olivia holds a sword and claim to be able to fight. I dont remember if she's a glass cannon though like Azura or even hit as hard as Azura.

[Magical Glace]

5 minutes ago, Ryuke said:

But Olivia holds a sword and claim to be able to fight. I dont remember if she's a glass cannon though like Azura or even hit as hard as Azura.

While Olivia can fight, that's not her job.  Her job is dancing.  Her wearing revealing clothes makes sense for her profession.

And yeah she is squishy as all get out.  And it's not like Azura's outfit isn't fanservicy either, her dress is slit very high and she has that weird waist hole in the side of her dress.

[Ryuke]

4 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

While Olivia can fight, that's not her job.  Her job is dancing.  Her wearing revealing clothes makes sense for her profession.

And yeah she is squishy as all get out.  And it's not like Azura's outfit isn't fanservicy either, her dress is slit very high and she has that weird waist hole in the side of her dress.

You're not entirely wrong. It's just something about Azura face is missing.  (Azura fan going to yell at me for this... I like her too)

[Vaximillian]

3 hours ago, Ryuke said:

But Olivia holds a sword and claim to be able to fight. I dont remember if she's a glass cannon though like Azura or even hit as hard as Azura.

Olivia (or FE4 Silvia, Lene, or Laylea, or FE3 Phina) being able to fight isn't her primary occupation though, it's more like self-defence.

I actually think Ninian was the only non-skimpy dancer ever.

[Ryuke]

17 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Olivia (or FE4 Silvia, Lene, or Laylea, or FE3 Phina) being able to fight isn't her primary occupation though, it's more like self-defence.

I actually think Ninian was the only non-skimpy dancer ever.

TT is what I say ... what I mean is Tethys (that's like the Indian style dancing... nothing wrong... )

[Jotari]

13 minutes ago, Ryuke said:

TT is what I say ... what I mean is Tethys (that's like the Indian style dancing... nothing wrong... )

There's nothing wrong with anything unless you attribute wrongness to it.