Should a remake of Blazing Blade happen?

[TheZakkAttack]

 

On 4/6/2017 at 0:36 AM, L9999 said:

The point of a Judgral remake is to expose it to more audiences, Jugdral is "irrelevant" because IS insists of burying them under the rug. The Jugdral games have a lot of interesting and good qualities to be worth updating and shown. I would love FE6 updated and chances are they are already doing that because Heroes gives a lot of evidence, so I am more interested in Jugdral remakes because they have no exposure. FE6 also has a serviceable fan translation and it is not graphically or mechanically outdated.

Agreed. Even though I haven't played the games myself, I've seen a lot of YouTube videos about Genealogy + Thracia. The games look very interesting, and even though they might be outdated by now, a remake would fix this. Good features to include: the danger areas, updated battle stats system (so you have to do less math in your head and spend more time playing), and the new support system.  

[L9999]

5 minutes ago, TheZakkAttack said:

 

Agreed. Even though I haven't played the games myself, I've seen a lot of YouTube videos about Genealogy + Thracia. The games look very interesting, and even though they might be outdated by now, a remake would fix this. Good features to include: the danger areas, updated battle stats system (so you have to do less math in your head and spend more time playing), and the new support system.  

Shadows of Valentia did the old school math thing though. Now that you mention danger zones, those would have been so good to have in the Elibe games. In Hard Mode it gets incredibly annoying to constantly check the enemies movement range so you don't mess up. And the modern support system would be better than the primitive one in FE6. 

[Zangetsu]

So are we still talking about why Elibes Series should get remake or we arguing on why Judgral Series should be prioritize over Elibe?

[TheZakkAttack]

14 hours ago, L9999 said:

Shadows of Valentia did the old school math thing though.

Oh no. That means I have to do Total Attack - Defence/Resistance and Hit - Avoid? Sigh. Still want a remake of Elibe though. With HD sprites!

[Memory0520]

I'm on the fence whether or not they should remake it, I wouldn't mind it since it's my favorite Fire Emblem but at the same time remakes tend to stray sometimes from the original. Expanding Kishuna's/Nergal's/8 Legends backstory would be great though. Or they should make a second prequel with Elbert and Marcus in his prime. I feel like either Binding Blade or Sacred Stones might need more priority and recognition for a remake first though, even though I don't care for them as much

[ohkayfaraday]

As much as I love FE7, I don't think it really needs a remake. It didn't have many flaws (aside from the tutorial that lasted WAY too long), and its pretty accessible. Maybe a re-release for the Switch?

[Shadow Mir]

On 4/10/2017 at 11:11 AM, TheZakkAttack said:

Oh no. That means I have to do Total Attack - Defence/Resistance and Hit - Avoid? Sigh.

That isn't entirely true - they do show your hit rate, attack, defense and crit.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[TheZakkAttack]

On 4/14/2017 at 10:58 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

That isn't entirely true - they do show your hit rate, attack, defense and crit.

Does it show how much damage I'll do, or do I have to calculate that by myself?

[L9999]

On 13/4/2017 at 1:52 PM, ohkayfaraday said:

As much as I love FE7, I don't think it really needs a remake. It didn't have many flaws (aside from the tutorial that lasted WAY too long), and its pretty accessible. Maybe a re-release for the Switch?

If you really want to push it...

 

Gameplay

Forced tutorial.

The Avatar was pointless and Dora the Explorer interaction doesn't work.

Thieves and lords promote too damn late.

Battle Before Dawn and everything it stands for. 

The way to unlock the Kishuna chapters is Thracia 666 nonsense.

Unlocking supports feels like pulling teeth and the amount of supports limit sucks.

The plot and characters

Lyn is pointless. If Laus happened to invade any other province in Lycia that is not Caelin, Lyn wouldn't be in Gingerwood's quest. After she joins she never does anything except track the Black Fang HQ, but that could be done by Legault. 

Nergal is an almighty idiot. 

Kishuna and what the hell he is and represents is never explained and since his chapters can be skipped it comes off as pointless. 

Ninian reviving is a slap in the face. 1) Reviving is cheap 2) In FE people stay dead. 3) Ninian's implied ending with Gingerwood says that she will die again shortly afterwards, so it all seems pointless. 

Continuity implications and support mess

If Lyn hates royal life so much why can she marry Hector or Gingerwood?

Does Roy has dragon blood? It kinda ruined Hasha no Tsurugi for me.

Hector not bringing up that he saved Zephiel's wimpy butt from the Black Fang while Zephiel is leaving him for dead.

Canas was killed by continuity errors. Niime's description of Canas in FE6 makes no sense.

Who is Sue's mom? Lyn or generic Sacaen woman?

Where are Nino and Lyn?

 

I don't dislike the game, but a lot doesn't make sense and I believed in some things on the list after I beat it the first time.

Edited April 18, 2017 by L9999

[sfgiantsfanmike]

Anything to make the game more available.

Right now the only two places to get the game are either not legit or the Wii U virtual console...

Don't like option 1 and am not buying a D.O.A. console for $200+ for a 10+ year old game.

The easiest option for Nintendo would be to re-release it on all of it's virtual consoles instead of just the one but I'll take a remake just so it's available again.

[Shadow Mir]

On April 17, 2017 at 6:21 PM, TheZakkAttack said:

Does it show how much damage I'll do, or do I have to calculate that by myself?

It doesn't show how much damage you do, but it does show how much HP the units involved can expect to come out with.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Augestein]

I say don't remake Blazing Sword/Blade, but rather combine it with Binding Blade. That way the world can get access to a new game and an old one as a bonus. 

[TheGoodHoms]

I think Blazing Blade is just fine as is and I won't lose sleep over not having a remake, but if it happens anyway I'd be really excited pretty fast. All you'd really need to is create more support conversations so that the characters can get fleshed out a little more, also giving the characters voice actors would be so much fun to hear. Also what if they made Mark into a playable character similar to Robin? Don't make him/her EXACTLY like Robin, but at least make Mark a little more involved, half the time I forget he/she even exists. Then just polish up the graphics, tune the game play to be little more balanced here and there, and make the cut scenes a bit more cinematic (think fates but with an actually good story). But like I said, if it doesn't happen it's not really a big deal to me.

Spoiler

Also they should add causal mode so that they can draw in the... well... causal players. I know I'l get eaten alive saying that, but I just want a great game like Blazing Blade into more peoples hands and causal mode seems to ship units if the last few titles are any indication.

 

[L9999]

1 hour ago, TheGoodHoms said:

I think Blazing Blade is just fine as is and I won't lose sleep over not having a remake, but if it happens anyway I'd be really excited pretty fast. All you'd really need to is create more support conversations so that the characters can get fleshed out a little more, also giving the characters voice actors would be so much fun to hear. Also what if they made Mark into a playable character similar to Robin? Don't make him/her EXACTLY like Robin, but at least make Mark a little more involved, half the time I forget he/she even exists. Then just polish up the graphics, tune the game play to be little more balanced here and there, and make the cut scenes a bit more cinematic (think fates but with an actually good story). But like I said, if it doesn't happen it's not really a big deal to me.

  Hide contents

Also they should add causal mode so that they can draw in the... well... casual players. I know I'l get eaten alive saying that, but I just want a great game like Blazing Blade into more peoples hands and causal mode seems to ship units if the last few titles are any indication.

 

I actually thought of Mark while I made my compilation of everything wrong with Blazing Blade. I think a way to implement him was if he were like Merlinus from FE6, except not being playable but being like Robin contributing tactics to Gingerwood's group, but being absent when the lords and the dragon twins have character moments. The problem is that Mark, being a tactician, would have to be around to tell Gingerwood and company things, so he may steal some of Marcus' contributions as well as being seen a lot during the story, which seems to be an anathema for some players.  Unlike the original Mark who didn't even have different map sprites for genders or portrait, Mark would be customizable by the player (to not be completely bland), and maybe have barracks in the style of FE Heroes. The only obstacle to my idea is FE6 because having a supposedly important character disappear in the story even though people like Marcus are still around doesn't feel right. Yeah, he could be back, but that would detract from Roy, as one of his good traits is being a good tactician. Another obstacle is if both remakes were in the same game it would be very weird, changing from a self insert interaction to the player watching Roy do things like Alm and Celica in SoV. This is my piece on Mark, how he could be implemented in the least offensive way possible. And no, not playable. I can't think of a class that suits him and it would take away from Lyn protecting him in the beginning if Mark can defend himself from axe dudes. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by L9999

[Harvey]

Spoiler

 

On 4/18/2017 at 1:17 PM, L9999 said:

Forced tutorial.

Only on your First playthrough. I understand that its annoying but then there's hard mode which can skip all the tutorial dialogue.

On 4/18/2017 at 1:17 PM, L9999 said:

The Avatar was pointless and Dora the Explorer interaction doesn't work.

The avatar wasn't even fleshed out. its a tactician which is you who guides the units to battle. I don't see how having the avatar ruins the gameplay since it only directs you and its suppose to reflect towards you. 

On 4/18/2017 at 1:17 PM, L9999 said:

Thieves and lords promote too damn late.

The two lords can get promoted early and its really easy to train them both. Thieves are pointless to promote since they will lose their ability to steal unless you want them to promote because of character obsession.

I don't see how that's an issue when you get a unit that beats the lords by a ton.

On 4/18/2017 at 1:17 PM, L9999 said:

Lyn is pointless. If Laus happened to invade any other province in Lycia that is not Caelin, Lyn wouldn't be in Gingerwood's quest. After she joins she never does anything except track the Black Fang HQ, but that could be done by Legault. 

She does have a purpose in the story which is to help her friends and her goal to avenge her parents. The thing I think you want to say is that you don't see her do things frequently like Hector and Eliwood which is true.

And no, Legault couldn't possibly do what She was doing because he like Lelia could have ended up being killed alone. That and that he wasn't a spy and would have just rather stolen the treasure and left.

On 4/18/2017 at 1:17 PM, L9999 said:

Nergal is an almighty idiot. 

You can pretty much say that for nearly every FE villain out there even Zephiel.

On 4/18/2017 at 1:17 PM, L9999 said:

Kishuna and what the hell he is and represents is never explained and since his chapters can be skipped it comes off as pointless. 

The reason why its skipabble is because it gives a reward for the player if the chapters are completed as you get an extra scene which reveals Nergal's past a bit.

On 4/18/2017 at 1:17 PM, L9999 said:

Ninian reviving is a slap in the face. 1) Reviving is cheap 2) In FE people stay dead. 3) Ninian's implied ending with Gingerwood says that she will die again shortly afterwards, so it all seems pointless. 

FE has done character revives before this even happened. You can pretty much say the same thing for Lewyd in Holy War. And its not pointless for one reason..that she had character support conversations and that she was kidnapped. So understand the pain to those who just had her but then lost her and wished her back.

Her revival makes sense compared to Birthright and Revelation who kill your recruited units scripted.

On 4/18/2017 at 1:17 PM, L9999 said:

If Lyn hates royal life so much why can she marry Hector or Gingerwood?

She doesn't and just wanders off as soon as her grandfather died and she does so if you get an A support with Hector. Don't understand why you want her to go with Nils since he's going back to the dragon world...which to humans can only mean instant death.

On 4/18/2017 at 1:17 PM, L9999 said:

Does Roy has dragon blood?

FE7 has nothing to do with Roy since that game came out before FE7 did. Its all upto imagination and whatnot.

On 4/18/2017 at 1:17 PM, L9999 said:

Hector not bringing up that he saved Zephiel's wimpy butt from the Black Fang while Zephiel is leaving him for dead.

Because Hector didn't really save him alone? and didn't he state once that Ostia and Bern were once friends to each other?

On 4/18/2017 at 1:17 PM, L9999 said:

Who is Sue's mom? Lyn or generic Sacaen woman?

Its both but depending on who you support, only one of them can happen.

On 4/18/2017 at 1:17 PM, L9999 said:

Where are Nino and Lyn?

According to the credits,

Nino:At Eliwood's invitation, she started a quiet life in a small village in Pherae. She plans to return to Bern to visit a certain cemetery.

Lyn:Lyn entrusted Caelin's rule to Ostia and returned to the plains of her birth. She often thinks fondly on the people of Caelin.

I agree that FE7 has some flaws like support grinding but a lot of your arguments are already mentioned or are odd.

 

Edited April 21, 2017 by Harvey

[Magical Glace]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Only on your First playthrough. I understand that its annoying but then there's hard mode which can skip all the tutorial dialogue.

There should be an option to skip tutorials on any playthrough.  Forcing such a heavy handed tutorial on a first playthrough is still bad because it is pretty much entirely things someone remotely familiar with the series should know, and they should have had enough foresight to think "you know, someone might play a future game and decide to go back and play this too, they shouldn't be forced to relearn mechanics they ALREADY SHOULD KNOW"

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

The avatar wasn't even fleshed out. its a tactician which is you who guides the units to battle. I don't see how having the avatar ruins the gameplay since it only directs you and its suppose to reflect towards you. 

That's their problem, it's not fleshed out.  Personally I'd prefer removing it entirely because screw avatars, but I can see why someone would have a problem with the through pointlessness of FE7's tactician.

 

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

The two lords can get promoted early and its really easy to train them both. Thieves are pointless to promote since they will lose their ability to steal unless you want them to promote because of character obsession.

I don't see how that's an issue when you get a unit that beats the lords by a ton.

The lord who's force deployed every map is also forced to promote last and very late.  And the first two Heaven Seals, while better are still a bit after most your units start promoting.

Thief promotion is just bad game design.   One, permanently missable, late game promo item that severely hits your funds rank when used.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

She does have a purpose in the story which is to help her friends and her goal to avenge her parents. The thing I think you want to say is that you don't see her do things frequently like Hector and Eliwood which is true.

And no, Legault couldn't possibly do what She was doing because he like Lelia could have ended up being killed alone. That and that he wasn't a spy and would have just rather stolen the treasure and left.

Not really.  Lyn does absolutely nothing after Caelin is liberated.  The times she speaks are generally just her being a captain obvious as if to remind the player "Hey, I'm here too!"  

Legault was a former member of the very group they're chasing after, there's really no reason why he should not know where to find the HQ.  I don't see how he'd wind up killed alone when he was with Eliwood and friends.  

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

You can pretty much say that for nearly every FE villain out there even Zephiel.

Saying "you can say that for all of them" is not a valid excuse.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

FE has done character revives before this even happened. You can pretty much say the same thing for Lewyd in Holy War. And its not pointless for one reason..that she had character support conversations and that she was kidnapped. So understand the pain to those who just had her but then lost her and wished her back.

Her revival makes sense compared to Birthright and Revelation who kill your recruited units scripted.

Ninian's revival has zero foreshadowing, and basically just exists to make sure Roy can be born if Eliwood fell for her.  It's a deus ex machina of the highest order.

As for Lewyn, it's fairly clear that it's not actually Lewyn, and more or less Forseti doing the same sorta thing as Loptyr.

 

Edited April 21, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[L9999]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

  Hide contents

 

Only on your First playthrough. I understand that its annoying but then there's hard mode which can skip all the tutorial dialogue.

And hard mode requires unlocking. Being forced to play sluggish is never good.

The avatar wasn't even fleshed out. its a tactician which is you who guides the units to battle. I don't see how having the avatar ruins the gameplay since it only directs you and its suppose to reflect towards you. 

I made a post on how the Avatar would not be pointless. He seems pointless because he comes off as an incomplete concept.

The two lords can get promoted early and its really easy to train them both. Thieves are pointless to promote since they will lose their ability to steal unless you want them to promote because of character obsession.

By the time one of the lords promotes everyone else should be promoted way before.  

She does have a purpose in the story which is to help her friends and her goal to avenge her parents. The thing I think you want to say is that you don't see her do things frequently like Hector and Eliwood which is true.

The avenge parents storyline ends in Wallace's support, because he killed the Taliver bandits. Outside supports it is never mentioned again after Port of Badon.

And no, Legault couldn't possibly do what She was doing because he like Lelia could have ended up being killed alone. That and that he wasn't a spy and would have just rather stolen the treasure and left.

He is an ex-Black Fang member that knows the location of the place Gingerwood and company are looking for. He is the perfect dude for the job.

You can pretty much say that for nearly every FE villain out there even Zephiel.

Zephiel has a clear motivation and knows what he is doing. I say Nergal is an almighty idiot because he doesn't know why is he doing all he does. And his motivation is in skippable chapters which unlocking requirements are obscure and unlikely nonsense.

FE has done character revives before this even happened. You can pretty much say the same thing for Lewyn in Holy War. And its not pointless for one reason..that she had character support conversations and that she was kidnapped. So understand the pain to those who just had her but then lost her and wished her back.

Her revival makes sense compared to Birthright and Revelation who kill your recruited units scripted.

Characters revived in the series (IIRC): Medeus, Deadlords, Lewyn, Morphs, Lyon's dad, Orson's wife, Validar, and Robin. Almost all of this are part of the scheme of an evil cult and most are zombies. Lewyn is his appearance used by Forseti, Robin has a cheesy revival but at least they warn us beforehand and takes his sweet time to come back. Ninian dies, then she revives relatively instantly with no warning just so she can die again shortly after if she stays in Elibe.  

She doesn't and just wanders off as soon as her grandfather died and she does so if you get an A support with Hector. Don't understand why you want her to go with Nils since he's going back to the dragon world...which to humans can only mean instant death.

 I don't understand what Nils has to do with anything so I won't try.

Because Hector didn't really save him alone? and didn't he state once that Ostia and Bern were once friends to each other?

Rule of pointing fingers to the leader.

 

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

Um, what about Fae? She's a dragon has no problems living in Elibe it appears. Why can't Ninian just be a manakete? She is half-human, so she should have even less of a problem than Fae. And, all the dragons of Arcadia were probably fairly long-lived, as Athos mentions nothing of them suddenly dying off- which you'd think would make the utopia not so utopian. Also, if Sophia is also half-dragon, why can't she use Hyper Super Mega Fimbulvetr (or Elfire, or Aircalibur, or Aura- whatever Sophia's draconic element is) or turn into a hulking monster? Plot inconsistencies at work!

Edited April 21, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[Punished Dayni]

14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

turn into a hulking monster?

On this one, Nergal had their stones and Ninian likely got hers back when she was being ordered to open the gate after being captured again.

Sophia? No hint she ever had one. Still an inconsistency to be fair.

As for Z-Fimbulvetr? I got nothing to say with that.

[TheGoodHoms]

On 4/19/2017 at 9:39 PM, L9999 said:

I actually thought of Mark while I made my compilation of everything wrong with Blazing Blade. I think a way to implement him was if he were like Merlinus from FE6, except not being playable but being like Robin contributing tactics to Gingerwood's group, but being absent when the lords and the dragon twins have character moments. The problem is that Mark, being a tactician, would have to be around to tell Gingerwood and company things, so he may steal some of Marcus' contributions as well as being seen a lot during the story, which seems to be an anathema for some players.  Unlike the original Mark who didn't even have different map sprites for genders or portrait, Mark would be customizable by the player (to not be completely bland), and maybe have barracks in the style of FE Heroes. The only obstacle to my idea is FE6 because having a supposedly important character disappear in the story even though people like Marcus are still around doesn't feel right. Yeah, he could be back, but that would detract from Roy, as one of his good traits is being a good tactician. Another obstacle is if both remakes were in the same game it would be very weird, changing from a self insert interaction to the player watching Roy do things like Alm and Celica in SoV. This is my piece on Mark, how he could be implemented in the least offensive way possible. And no, not playable. I can't think of a class that suits him and it would take away from Lyn protecting him in the beginning if Mark can defend himself from axe dudes. 

You make a fine point, I'd actually go with your idea over mine. If I tried to justify making Mark a playable unit, I guess you could make him/her a healer like a cleric, but as I said before your interpretation of this situation would probably be better than mine(also I'm sure you've played more Fire Emblem than I have). Thanks for sharing your perspective with me, it's why these discussions are so fun.

[Harvey]

On 21/04/2017 at 6:06 PM, Glaceon Mage said:

There should be an option to skip tutorials on any playthrough.  Forcing such a heavy handed tutorial on a first playthrough is still bad because it is pretty much entirely things someone remotely familiar with the series should know, and they should have had enough foresight to think "you know, someone might play a future game and decide to go back and play this too, they shouldn't be forced to relearn mechanics they ALREADY SHOULD KNOW"

You can pretty much say this for any game since almost every game that's played will always have the tutorial mode started whether you already played it or not. So bashing FE7's lyn mode entirely is plain unfair.

On 21/04/2017 at 6:06 PM, Glaceon Mage said:

That's their problem, it's not fleshed out.  Personally I'd prefer removing it entirely because screw avatars, but I can see why someone would have a problem with the through pointlessness of FE7's tactician.

I still don't see how this is a big deal when the Tactician isn't even appearing much nor does it affect the overall experience of the game. It was just a way to help make the story a bit more interactive between the player and the characters and I quite like it that the characters talk to you because the characters survival reflects on you on how you lead them.

On 21/04/2017 at 6:06 PM, Glaceon Mage said:

The lord who's force deployed every map is also forced to promote last and very late.  And the first two Heaven Seals, while better are still a bit after most your units start promoting.

Thief promotion is just bad game design.   One, permanently missable, late game promo item that severely hits your funds rank when used.

And so is the insane late promotion of Roy as well. Really though, you don't need to promote either of them because you get Jaffar who unless Matthew and Legault decide to promote and be trained, beats the  hell out of them interms of stats only thing is that he can't steal but that's just it. The only reason of why you would promote either of them is again, character obsession.

As for the Lords, no..it could have been worse and its not that bad actually since again, you get THREE lords and all of them do great whether their flaws are higher than their pros or not is another thing but they are far far far serviceable and more convenient to use than what a boy could possibly be.

On 21/04/2017 at 6:06 PM, Glaceon Mage said:

Not really.  Lyn does absolutely nothing after Caelin is liberated.  The times she speaks are generally just her being a captain obvious as if to remind the player "Hey, I'm here too!"  

Legault was a former member of the very group they're chasing after, there's really no reason why he should not know where to find the HQ.  I don't see how he'd wind up killed alone when he was with Eliwood and friends.  

Wrong again. There are times where Lyn did do some things in the story. Its like I said, she doesn't appear in the story that frequently. Uhai would have just killed of the clan had Lyn not showed up with them. Then there's also the part where she helped track down the fortresses of Bern and they were able to move forward there as well.

As for Legault, I was referring to the fact that if he had not joined Eliwood, that information that he received would have been nothing as he would have easily been killed if he worked with someone else.

On 21/04/2017 at 6:06 PM, Glaceon Mage said:

Saying "you can say that for all of them" is not a valid excuse.

Of course I can because most villains are complete idiots that don't know what they were doing in the first place. 

For the FE games I've played so far

Julius: Complete idiot in the first place because he trusted a lover who cleverly deceived some of his orders and for foolishly trusting Manfloy to deal with Julia instead of just downright kill her.

Zephiel: Instead of being happy to take over Bern after killing his father, he decides to deceive his own people and let dragons take over the universe...even if it means killing his own sister.

Nergal: Has no idea what is going on within the Black Fang making him a complete joke.

Grima: Couldn't predict what Robin was going to do despite him and Robin being mutually the same being.

On 21/04/2017 at 6:06 PM, Glaceon Mage said:

Ninian's revival has zero foreshadowing, and basically just exists to make sure Roy can be born if Eliwood fell for her.  It's a deus ex machina of the highest order.

As for Lewyn, it's fairly clear that it's not actually Lewyn, and more or less Forseti doing the same sorta thing as Loptyr.

Again, its like I said, those who like Ninian would like her to be alive and her power was needed to defeat atleast two of the dragons...something which Athos couldn't even do himself despite being nearly a god.

There was a reason for why Lewyn was revived otherwise he wouldn't have been around. That and that a lot of things were suppose to be made in FE4 but didn't happen due to development pressures and whatnot.

 

[Magical Glace]

1 minute ago, Harvey said:

You can pretty much say this for any game since almost every game that's played will always have the tutorial mode started whether you already played it or not. So bashing FE7's lyn mode entirely is plain unfair.

Oh, I'll say the same for any forced tutorial ever.  Pokémon's, Zelda's, what have you.  I don't mind optional tutorial's like in FE6 though.

2 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I still don't see how this is a big deal when the Tactician isn't even appearing much nor does it affect the overall experience of the game. It was just a way to help make the story a bit more interactive between the player and the characters and I quite like it that the characters talk to you because the characters survival reflects on you on how you lead them.

Again, I personally prefer erasing it, but the through irrelevance to just about everything undertandably calls into question why it's even included.

5 minutes ago, Harvey said:

And so is the insane late promotion of Roy as well. Really though, you don't need to promote either of them because you get Jaffar who unless Matthew and Legault decide to promote and be trained, beats the  hell out of them interms of stats only thing is that he can't steal but that's just it. The only reason of why you would promote either of them is again, character obsession.

As for the Lords, no..it could have been worse and its not that bad actually since again, you get THREE lords and all of them do great whether their flaws are higher than their pros or not is another thing but they are far far far serviceable and more convenient to use than what a boy could possibly be.

What does Roy have to do with this?  

For the thieves, what if I want to use Matthew/Legault over Jaffar?  Giving ONE late, missable promo item for them is just ugh.

And the lords: The final lord promotion doesn't happen until you have 5 chapters left (Hector Mode, counting Value of Life but not Battle Preparations because the latter has no enemies), or 4 chapters (Eliwood mode, again not counting BP).  That's pretty much as bad as Roy's as far as lateness goes, and Hector doesn't get any move either (though Eliwood thankfully does).  The remaining two are admittedly better, but not by much, considering other units will start promoting around about Chapter 18/19.

15 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Uhai would have just killed of the clan had Lyn not showed up with them.

They would still have fought him and won.  All she did was get taken hostage for like a minute.

16 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Then there's also the part where she helped track down the fortresses of Bern and they were able to move forward there as well.

Which we have already established as being doable by Legault.

17 minutes ago, Harvey said:

As for Legault, I was referring to the fact that if he had not joined Eliwood, that information that he received would have been nothing as he would have easily been killed if he worked with someone else.

Except he was with Eliwood.

17 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Of course I can because most villains are complete idiots that don't know what they were doing in the first place. 

For the FE games I've played so far

Julius: Complete idiot in the first place because he trusted a lover who cleverly deceived some of his orders and for foolishly trusting Manfloy to deal with Julia instead of just downright kill her.

Zephiel: Instead of being happy to take over Bern after killing his father, he decides to deceive his own people and let dragons take over the universe...even if it means killing his own sister.

Nergal: Has no idea what is going on within the Black Fang making him a complete joke.

Grima: Couldn't predict what Robin was going to do despite him and Robin being mutually the same being.

You completely missed the point, lol.

Just because another villain in the series was stupid, doesn't excuse Nergal being stupid.  It also doesn't excuse Julius and Grima.

What you listed for Zephiel wasn't really the product of stupidity considering he wanted dragons to take over because he thought humanity sucked, though.

20 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Again, its like I said, those who like Ninian would like her to be alive and her power was needed to defeat atleast two of the dragons...something which Athos couldn't even do himself despite being nearly a god.

That doesn't make it not a deus ex machina.  There is no precedent in Royland for people being revived (as Royland and Marthland are different universes), no explanation, and no foreshadowing.

And Athos wasn't nearly a god either, lol.  He was just a very powerful mage.

21 minutes ago, Harvey said:

There was a reason for why Lewyn was revived otherwise he wouldn't have been around. That and that a lot of things were suppose to be made in FE4 but didn't happen due to development pressures and whatnot.

Don't know what point you're trying to make here.

[Harvey]

2 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

What does Roy have to do with this?

Complain over the lords promoting late and yet not seeing Roy also suffering that fate is either telling me that you're one of Roy fans out there or that you find them rather uninteresting as units.

2 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

For the thieves, what if I want to use Matthew/Legault over Jaffar?  Giving ONE late, missable promo item for them is just ugh.

That's what I said. Unless you're obsessed into using ONE of them just for the sake of getting them as Assasins, there's no reason to promote them since they are more useful to STEAL and OPEN chests, why on earth would you want them to become assasins in the first place?

Rather than using it to promote one of them, sell it so you can get better equipment for your other units.

And also, they are nowhere near as powerful as Jaffar unless you use stat boosters. Heck, they even admit that they aren't capable of fighting either.

I don't see how this is really a design flaw. I see it as more of a tactical approach and further enhances replayability.

2 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

And the lords: The final lord promotion doesn't happen until you have 5 chapters left (Hector Mode, counting Value of Life but not Battle Preparations because the latter has no enemies), or 4 chapters (Eliwood mode, again not counting BP).  That's pretty much as bad as Roy's as far as lateness goes, and Hector doesn't get any move either (though Eliwood thankfully does).  The remaining two are admittedly better, but not by much, considering other units will start promoting around about Chapter 18/19.

Ok...now you're overstating stuff here. The three lords don't even come as bad as Roy has. Hector's a good tank, Lyn's a good dodger and Eliwood is balanced.

Even if their promotions are late, their growth rates are good and are better than what Roy can get..even his dad's growth's are equally distributed.

Let's also not forget that unlike Roy who doesn't get a signature weapon until endgame, all the lords get signature weapons that can do bonus damage. By the time they max out their levels, their promotion items would begin which would have already made them stronger by then.

Also, If I'm not mistaken, isn't it possible to arena abuse once promotion starts?

2 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

They would still have fought him and won.  All she did was get taken hostage for like a minute.

No, they were cornered as soon as they saw Lelia being killed. Lyn made Uhai do an actual fight to begin with.

2 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Which we have already established as being doable by Legault.

If you're going to do a what if scenario and state that Legault can do what Lyn did, why not Matthew? Dude's been with Eliwood longer than him and he's as skilled as Legault.

It also doesn't help that Lyn is indeed quick and is more used in the plot than the other two.

2 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

you completely missed the point, lol.

Just because another villain in the series was stupid, doesn't excuse Nergal being stupid.  It also doesn't excuse Julius and Grima.

What you listed for Zephiel wasn't really the product of stupidity considering he wanted dragons to take over because he thought humanity sucked, though.

And why not? FE has always had enemies that have done stupid things. That's just how most wars work. To blame Nergal's dumbness but ignoring the other dumbness of the other villains is only narrowing the mindset.

But yeah, you're right...Zephiel isn't stupid..he's a complete lunatic!

2 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

That doesn't make it not a deus ex machina.  There is no precedent in Royland for people being revived (as Royland and Marthland are different universes), no explanation, and no foreshadowing.

And Athos wasn't nearly a god either, lol.  He was just a very powerful mage.

Don't know what you're talking about here at all...

Athos isn't a god but he is one of the eight generals which is good of a legend to accept.

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by Harvey

[Magical Glace]

Just now, Harvey said:

Complain over the lords promoting late and yet not seeing Roy also suffering that fate is either telling me that you're one of Roy fans out there or that you find them rather uninteresting as units.

What gave you the impression that I like Roy's promotion time?  That's one of the things I'd change about FE6.  

 

1 minute ago, Harvey said:

That's what I said. Unless you're obsessed into using ONE of them just for the sake of getting them as Assasins, there's very little reason to promote them since they are more useful to STEAL and OPEN chests, why on earth would you want them to become assasins in the first place?

I like Matthew and Legault as characters more than Jaffar.  I actually don't like Jaffar very much,

I should be able to promote them without having to wait 9000 years.

3 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Ok...now you're overstating stuff here. The three lords don't even come as bad as Roy has. Hector's a good tank, Lyn's a good dodger and Eliwood is balanced.

Even if their promotions are late, their growth rates are good and are better than what Roy can get..even his dad's growth's are equally distributed.

Let's also not forget that unlike Roy who doesn't get a signature weapon until endgame, all the lords get signature weapons that can do bonus damage. By the time they max out their levels, their promotion items would begin which would have already made them stronger by then.

Also, If I'm not mistaken, isn't it possible to arena abuse once promotion starts?

Eliwood's growths are actually very similar to Roy's, though he sacrifices 15% of Roy's sky high Luck for 5% in Str, Def, and Res.  Their bases are also nearly identical.

Roy gets the Rapier too, what land are you living in?  And it actually has higher effective might than English!Eliwood's Rapier (Japanese!Eliwood's Rapier is outright better though).  And Roy's endgame signature is better than ALL THREE of the FE7 Endgame signatures, Eliwood and Lyn can barely even lift their weapons (even a max speed Eliwood cannot double the dragon with Durandal without consuming a Body Ring), Hector struggles a bit with his, Roy is totally unburdened by the Binding Blade's 8 weight (Promoted Roy has 8 CON naturally). None of the FE7 lords endgame weapons have 2 range, the Binding Blade does.  The FE7 weapons only have x2 Effective might, Binding Blade has x3.  Binding Blade gives +5 to Def and Res, Armads/Sol Katti only give Def/Res while Durandal gives Str.  Binding Blade can be used as an item to heal Roy, FE7's weapons cannot.

The only Arena after the FE7 lords start promoting is in Battle Preparations.  So it's actually not possible to post promotion arena abuse them.

18 minutes ago, Harvey said:

No, they were cornered as soon as they saw Lelia being killed. Lyn made Uhai do an actual fight to begin with.

Not really.  They saw Leila's body, then Uhai attacked.  Then they would fight him, kill him, and move on.

It's entirely possible to rewrite that scene without Lyn and change absolutely nothing about Uhai's character.

22 minutes ago, Harvey said:

If you're going to do a what if scenario and state that Legault can do what Lyn did, why not Matthew? Dude's been with Eliwood longer than him and he's as skilled as Legault.

Because Legault was a member of the Black Fang.

It's really that simple.

22 minutes ago, Harvey said:

It also doesn't help that Lyn is indeed quick and is more used in the plot than the other two.

>Lyn

>More Used in the plot

The entire game post Lyn Mode is basically Eliwood's quest to find his dad, then a love story about Eliwood and Ninian.  Even in Hector's story the protagonist is still ultimately Eliwood.

24 minutes ago, Harvey said:

And why not? FE has always had enemies that have done stupid things. That's just how most wars work. To blame Nergal's dumbness but ignoring the other dumbness of the other villains is only narrowing the mindset.

Because "this did it" is never, ever an excuse for bad writing.  

We aren't ignoring other dumbness, it's just that we happen to be discussing FE7 in particular.  

26 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Don't know what you're talking about here at all...

Alright, do you know what a deus ex machina is?

In the context we are using, this is what the dictionary has to say:

Quote

a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deus ex machina

[Harvey]

9 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Roy gets the Rapier too, what land are you living in? 

Roy won't do as much damage as Eliwood with the Rapier. The one that Eliwood uses has more might than Roy and can do bonus damage to other units besides Knights and Cavaliers something that Roy can't do.

And even then, the only times that the rapier ever comes to use for Roy is in two chapters. After that, it becomes useless to even have it unlike in FE7 where you have more than just two to make use of the rapier and this would be the part where he needs steel weapons to make those needed kills.

9 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

d Roy's endgame signature is better than ALL THREE of the FE7 Endgame signatures,

I was implying the Mani Katti, the Wolf Beli and the rapier that you get at the start of the game. I didn't mean the final weapons at all.

9 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

None of the FE7 lords endgame weapons have 2 range, the Binding Blade does.  The FE7 weapons only have x2 Effective might, Binding Blade has x3.  Binding Blade gives +5 to Def and Res, Armads/Sol Katti only give Def/Res while Durandal gives Str.  Binding Blade can be used as an item to heal Roy, FE7's weapons cannot.

That just shows how broken the binding blade is and not something that is balanced unlike in FE7 which is balanced. Because of this, it is nearly impossible to even beat the final boss without it assuming you do hacking and max out its stats. Armads and Durandal were even 1 ranged in FE6 so what's your point?

I really don't see why people want a two ranged sword since swords are made for close combat and not the other way around.

9 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Not really.  They saw Leila's body, then Uhai attacked.  Then they would fight him, kill him, and move on.

It's entirely possible to rewrite that scene without Lyn and change absolutely nothing about Uhai's character.

And yet its not possible to rewrite most of the stupid decisions that Roy has done throughout the game?

9 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

I like Matthew and Legault as characters more than Jaffar.  I actually don't like Jaffar very much,

I should be able to promote them without having to wait 9000 years.

Sorry to say this but that's just your problem. Because as I said earlier, they both suck hard unless you use stat boosters. Might as well only use them when you want to steal and open chests.

9 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Because Legault was a member of the Black Fang.

It's really that simple.

Your missing the point. What's the difference between Legault and Matthew if they are both skilled to do the job to begin with? It also doesn't help that the enemy would have known Legault had joined on Eliwoods side so he would have been killed or trapped because of this.

I still don't get what some flaws in FE7 have anything to do into wanting a remake of FE7 since again as I mentioned, FE7 is perfect for what it is.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2017 by Harvey