Crafting a New Class List (fan thing / personal project)

[BANRYU]

Okay I went and made the separate weapons list topic lol. Any discussion relating to weapons and balancing can go there from now on except as it relates to which weapons the classes have ~3~ yay

17 hours ago, Jotari said:

Both Kinshi and Griffon promote from a more generic tier 1 unit. They are both birds after all

Yeah TBH I considered a 'flier trainee' sort of class that actually doesn't use a mount, but is training to use one, so that way any mount (IE Griffons/Kinshi/anything else) could be more easily justified according to my weird preference of not wanting fliers to switch mounts lol. Or even just... something with like a 'rental' or trainee mount I dunno. 

1 hour ago, Dragrath said:

@BANRYU I see I'm not the only one bothered by mount changes on promotion :) Yeah I always found that aspect to be too much in conflict with the supports which tend to focus on the mount/rider bond and the likes. 

With regards to the skill system I feel you I too feel that reclassing is a bit too much in the newer games. Personally I am more of a fan of a hybrid between the Tellius system and Fates/Awakening system with a few tweaks. Classes would come with skills split into two types(class skills(locked to class line only i.e. steal capture canto galeforce) and general skills which could also be obtained by scrolls that would be either bought found or ripped from the minds of captive enemies through more questionable means... Additionally supports would allow skills to be shared between allied units(however the limit of how many supports you could get would restrict this) On top of that every unit would have a personal skill which really would be from a shared pool of more boring skills(+x to stat and what not) for nameless soldier A's and Real skills for portrait enemies i.e. Playable characters and bosses/minibosses.

The advantage of that is you could give skills you acquire to units of your choice 

One of my more crazy ideas is where everyone would have their base class line but would have the option of a sub class(obtained probably through at item) which could give additional weapon options and slightly changes growths) The sub class could be changed(with changes serving as modifiers towards secondary weapons and  but the primary would be fixed. These would be necessary to transition from a magic or physical class to hybrid for instance. It is a WIP honestly this thread is where the idea popped into my head so it really is new but could be really interesting...

My deal with skills is that I wanted them to sort of personalize and help define individual characters/units-- IE Tellius without the ability to swap skills, the personal skills in Fates, character-specific kits in Heroes, etc. If it's used for forum/tabletop RP, the idea would be players can choose their own skill/kit to help define the kind of character they want to use from the get-go, then unlock stuff bit-by bit later (if it's like the Heroes thing... not gonna lie, I'm getting a lot of inspiration from Heroes ahaha). 

Honestly the Heroes model is the one I kinda like the most for the planned setting, since it feels the most unique and personizable option for multiple players. I also like the Tellius model, as that's what I did for a story/RP that me and the wife are writing with a lot of characters each (giving them all a single skill that sort of personalizes them, such as Wrath, Defender, Darting Blow, etc), but It's harder to think of ways that can be balanced for many different players and users, so I have a harder time wanting to go that route. If I were to use this system for a fan-game, I would probably be more inclined to use the Tellius/personal skills model, or even the (slightly boring) Fates w/out reclassing model (though I'd like to be able to maintain the ability to reclass, so long as the focus was ON the other classes rather than the skills they have). 

[Dragrath]

Ah I haven't really played Hero's(no smart phone believe it or not) I do get the sentiment of making skills be skills and classes be classes though The idea of classifying skills into certain classes you mention does sound kind of interesting but I would likely miss skill synergy(Ideally for me I want both players and enemies both wielding skills

[BANRYU]

Okay... I've gone ahead and updated the OP, most of the promotion options for each unit have been nailed down to a solid three now, and many weapon kits as well. Here are a couple of matters I'm still not 100% on, and would welcome input on in particular:

• should Mage Knights get 2 types of Anima, or 1 type + Staves? (...or 2 types and staves? Seems like too much power for a mounted unit's mobility and range, though)
• should Dark Knights be an armor class? Obviously they're clad in full armor in their two 3DS game appearances, and I'm wondering if it might be appropriate balance for them as well given that they're the tankier, mounted counterpart to the Mage Knight and Valkyrie-- being tankier overall (and by extension losing a point of movement) would help them fit better thematically with Battlemages as a promotion option, as well as maybe differentiating them from other mounted mag-users is my thought. It'd also be nice to have a wider distribution of armor units beyond the usual crop. 
• Battlemages currently have Dark Knights (who use Fire) and Malig Knights (who use Thunder) as promotion options-- meaning that a Battlemage who uses an anima type outside of one of those promoting into one of those classes may have to start over on weapon rank. What if, instead of these two promotion options, a Battlemage has only TWO promotion options-- but the second one is variable depending on their anima type? (IE Wind -> Dark Falc, Thunder -> Malig Knight, and Fire -> Dark Knight) DFs admittedly don't fit the armored magic-user theme as well as the other two, but it's... something I guess...??
• Should Vassals have lockpicking capabilities when upgrading from a thief like Assassins/Dreadfighters/Adventurers do? Outlaws (the other lockpick class) have one upgrade that can't use lockpicks regardless (Sniper), so I'm wondering if Vassal along with Sniper should be treated as 'honorable' classes that don't dabble in such things. On the other hand, maybe that's a talent that a servant would have at their disposal, just in case....??

With that, the class cast is more or less rounded out, though if possible I think I'd still like to add a FEW classes if possible, such as the Blacksmith and some additional fliers... Adding the Blacksmith would mean also adding the Villager class to make room for some other classes (IE Merc, Fighter, maybe Knight?) to be able to upgrade into the BS, and would also probably involve adding the Great Master back in for Villagers and shuffling a lot of other stuff around.

Adding the fliers would be less complicated, since the class tree would be more or less standalone, much like the Wyvern/Pegasus trees. Adding in Griffons and Kinshi Knights might involve changing Sky Knights to Seraph Knights and giving them Light Magic in place of bows. For the most part I'm pretty happy with what I've got now, but these are some ideas. 

With that, the next step is to draw up base stats for all the classes =w= Yay, math. Everyone's favorite. And then of course still need to come up with some updated Summmoning mechanics as well. 

12 hours ago, Dragrath said:

Ah I haven't really played Hero's (no smart phone believe it or not) I do get the sentiment of making skills be skills and classes be classes though The idea of classifying skills into certain classes you mention does sound kind of interesting but I would likely miss skill synergy(Ideally for me I want both players and enemies both wielding skills

Actually, there's still quite a lot of skill synergy possible using the Heroes model, so don't worry there! I'll try to give you the gist of it as quickly as possible...

There are 5 skill slots (plus another slot for the character's weapon) : 1 specifically for procs, 1 for out-of-battle support skills like Shove / Dance, and 3 for passive skills (where each slot has a pool of specific passives available for it). Every unit so far gets 3 skills, either a proc or a support skill and then 2 passives that occupy different slots. (Healers are the exception and get both a support proc and a healing support skill along with one passive.) Simplistic though that may seem, there's some good room for synergy; IE, Felicia gets Res+3 as one of her passives, along with a skill that deals 80% of her Res as flat additional damage-- so that's pretty cool! There are others that might serve as better examples, but that's the best one that comes to mind... Others include Niles and Beruka, whose Killer weapons speed up their weaker, but faster-charging procs so they can be used in rapid succession (in Heroes procs activate based on a counter that ticks down every time the unit attacks, gets attacked, or heals an ally. 

...okay wasn't as concise as I'd have liked, guess I got a little excited ahah... ;; well it's a pretty neat system and I dig it, if you couldn't tell. And it allows for quite a surprising amount of variety as well.

Edited February 27, 2017 by BANRYU

[Jotari]

I could see Dark Knights as being armoured. Losing Lock Pick also makes sense as a trade off for a more combat oriented class. It's pretty much the route they went with Rogues and Assassins in Sacred Stones.

[Michelaar]

I would love to see an armored Wyvern class. Like, they could use the whole weapon triangle and actually be armored, so having master defense, very low resistance, and quite a bit of weaknesses.

[BANRYU]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

I could see Dark Knights as being armoured. Losing Lock Pick also makes sense as a trade off for a more combat oriented class. It's pretty much the route they went with Rogues and Assassins in Sacred Stones.

Vassals would be more of a support/utility class (daggers/staves), so to some degree it would make sense for them to have additional utility skills... But on the other hand, perhaps that's too many utility skills. I'm letting Assassins still have lockpicking, though I think it's somewhat balanced by the fact that only units with a Lockpick-capable base class retain that ability. As for Dark Knights, noted (I'm leaning toward it a bit already if you couldn't tell =w=). 

2 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

I would love to see an armored Wyvern class. Like, they could use the whole weapon triangle and actually be armored, so having master defense, very low resistance, and quite a bit of weaknesses.

I'll consider it! I always thought Armor + wyverns wouldn't mesh since the wyvs gotta be able to fly, and heavy armor be makin' that tough, but that's realism and not everything has to be realistic so long as it's balanced so... I'll consider it. 

 

Speaking of balance VS realism, don't tell my wife I used axes for the wyverns T3T ;;

[SpearOfLies]

Archer to warrior... Mercenary to swordmaster... Feel really wrong...

[SpearOfLies]

I feel baron is unbalanced.

Edit: Sorry for double post.

Edited February 27, 2017 by SpearOfLies

[BANRYU]

37 minutes ago, SpearOfLies said:

Archer to warrior... Mercenary to swordmaster... Feel really wrong...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

21 minutes ago, SpearOfLies said:

I feel baron is unbalanced.

Edit: Sorry for double post.

S'fine, just careful you don't do it too much or eclipse will get on your ass.

Do you mind elaborating about how/why it's unbalanced? I'm cool with criticism but I could use more to work off of in terms of knowing what to fix. 

Edited February 27, 2017 by BANRYU

[SpearOfLies]

2 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

S'fine, just careful you don't do it too much or eclipse will get on your ass.

Do you mind elaborating about how/why it's unbalanced?

You basically make them hard to kill for most mage counter or counter the mage counter. Because they can use lance they can have anti-horse lance, making them good against horse unit if they haven't armorslayer and impossible for pegasus(one of mage counter). Sword unit need armor slayer to win. Mage aren't so effective cause baron as based of mage class should have good res(still not good as pure mage class and pure cleric class). Because he can use magic fight equal to most of axe user(they have crap res usually) unless they have hammer(except for berseker, warmonk and malig knight what can probabily kill baron easy).

 

They are already myrmidon characters have mercenary-like growth. Feel Hero is better choice than swordmaster for mercenary. You basically lose mercenary trait to get myrmidon trait.

 

Usually people choice berseker over warrior because it have better stats. Someone still pick warrior for useful anti air unit. E rank bow still work with their strength to oneshot pegasus.

What an archer get from warrior better than sniper? The have no reason to use E rank axe over bow. They have less hp than barbarian-based warrior. They have more skill but sniper have higher skill. Sniper probabily have also better speed growth.

 

I can say more about other choices but if you prefer let it as now, okey. I mean this your class list. I just saw something that seem not very good to me and point it.

[BANRYU]

14 minutes ago, SpearOfLies said:

You basically make them hard to kill for most mage counter or counter the mage counter. Because they can use lance they can have anti-horse lance, making them good against horse unit if they haven't armorslayer and impossible for pegasus(one of mage counter). Sword unit need armor slayer to win. Mage aren't so effective cause baron as based of mage class should have good res(still not good as pure mage class and pure cleric class). Because he can use magic fight equal to most of axe user(they have crap res usually) unless they have hammer(except for berseker, warmonk and malig knight what can probabily kill baron easy).

To be totally fair, the claim that they would be too hard to kill is relatively unfounded until I actually create stat builds for all the units, something I plan to do, but haven't been able to get to yet. But yes, I am definitely aware of the potential power of a magic-wielding armored unit, and their stats will be adjusted accordingly to have significantly less defense than Generals and not enough resistance that Fire magic (which is effective against armor with my system) doesn't still roast them. Also, I will be giving Fighters and a couple other axe units better Res than they usually have. And by your own admission, there are a few units who check him in principle already, so I think he's probably fine for the time being ;3 

They are already myrmidon characters have mercenary-like growth. Feel Hero is better choice than swordmaster for mercenary. You basically lose mercenary trait to get myrmidon trait. Mercs still upgrade into Heroes, if you notice. :0 Perhaps you're trying to say something else, but I'm not really clear on what that might be.

Usually people choice berseker over warrior because it have better stats. Yep, something I plan to rectify if possible. This project is all about attempting to improve on preexisting stuff, after all. Someone still pick warrior for useful anti air unit. E rank bow still work with their strength to oneshot pegasus.

What an archer get from warrior better than sniper? The have no reason to use E rank axe over bow. They have less hp than barbarian-based warrior. They have more skill but sniper have higher skill. Sniper probabily have also better speed growth. I dunno, maybe if the player wants to do that? And once again with the stat-based conjecture; I haven't drawn up the stats for them yet lol. Doesn't make much sense to criticize them based on something that isn't known or implemented yet. If you're suggesting things to be aware of and try to balance out, that's cool, I appreciate that, but you're framing it as a concrete criticism of something that isn't concrete yet. 

Replied in the quote box with green.

Edited February 27, 2017 by BANRYU

[SpearOfLies]

37 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Replied in the quote box with green.

I'm considered them from the actual class and suggest to beware of this. Try to fit warrior between archer and barbarian while also make berseker more balance to warrior may make them too weaker/stronger than other class. You make barbarian have more hp over fighter making more tricky. Need to stay aware to not buff too much archer.

I feel mercenary to ranger and myrmidon to arms master better. Mercenary to sword master feel weaker than myrmidon to sword master and the other mercenary choices.

 

The thunder have some bonus damage too? I may suggest another change.

Edited February 27, 2017 by SpearOfLies

[BANRYU]

22 minutes ago, SpearOfLies said:

I'm considered them from the actual class and suggest to beware of this. Try to fit warrior between archer and barbarian while also make berseker more balance to warrior may make them too weaker/stronger than other class. You make barbarian have more hp over fighter making more tricky. Need to stay aware to not buff too much archer.

I feel mercenary to ranger and myrmidon to arms master better. Mercenary to sword master feel weaker than myrmidon to sword master and the other mercenary choices.

The thunder have some bonus damage too? I may suggest another change.

Okay I see your confusion... I mentioned both that I'm doing custom stat builds for the classes and my custom weapon list/mechanics in the thread but forgot to put them in the OP; this has been rectified. (To save you the trouble of going back a page though the weapons list is also in my sig.)

Now that said, I'm beginning to suspect that your criticism is less 'constructive' and more 'why isn't this what I want it to be' :0 And listen man, you're entitled to your opinion, but if you prefer things how they are in the games or whatever then why are you commenting on a project that's trying to change things up from the games? xD

Incidentally yeah I know that's why you prefer those promotions for Merc and Myrmidon, because that's what they are in the games. Welp, IMO, this way is more fitting, and it's based on an idea I've had since Awakening, where Bow Knights and Assassins should have IMO been swapped as promotions for Mercenaries and Bow Knights-- given that Myrmidons (in Awakening especially) are based on Samurai, which during most periods of feudal Japan were an aristocratic group that practiced not only swordplay, but also archery and horsemanship-- combining them as well, mind you-- maybe you can see why I thought Myrmidon -> Bow Knight might be more fitting, lol. Also, because what is an Assassin but a more specialized Mercenary? Seems like a good scummy alternative to their more valiant Hero class option to me.

So essentially what you're getting in my project (since I have assassins using daggers instead of swords) is that, in essence; and yeah, I get that Arms Masters promote from Samurai/Myrmidons in Fates and in that cultural context it makes sense (since IIRC they're based on warrior monks and whatnot) but this class list is adapted for the more traditional western fantasy, and Arms Master is kind of a generic class that can work with other backgrounds as well-- IE, Mercenary still fits the bill at least somewhat. So I hope that explains it adequately. If not... Oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ opinions differ.

As for Thunder and the other magic mechanics, it's found in the other thread I made for the weapons and whatnot. Be aware that the exact numbers for a lot of those are still a WIP as well before you start hitting me with more numbers-based conjecture again lol. 

And hey, if you don't like what I'm doing with my class list, you can always... I dunno... make your own...?? I'm happy to take objective / constructive criticism on matters I'm asking for, but... yeah. CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

EDIT: Just realized I didn't even need to give the Bow Knight/Assassin shpeal because it's literally spelled out (more concisely as well) in the OP lmao. So... shrug

Edited February 27, 2017 by BANRYU

[SpearOfLies]

4 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Incidentally yeah I know that's why you prefer those promotions for Merc and Myrmidon, because that's what they are in the games. Welp, IMO, this way is more fitting, and it's based on an idea I've had since Awakening, where Bow Knights and Assassins should have IMO been swapped as promotions for Mercenaries and Bow Knights-- given that Myrmidons (in Awakening especially) are based on Samurai, which during most periods of feudal Japan were an aristocratic group that practiced not only swordplay, but also archery and horsemanship-- combining them as well, mind you-- maybe you can see why I thought Myrmidon -> Bow Knight might be more fitting, lol. Also, because what is an Assassin but a more specialized Mercenary? Seems like a good scummy alternative to their more valiant Hero class option to me.

Western noble also practiced hunting on horse. Knight and samurai see archery as coward in war. Both culture have Bow Knight. I don't know which culture use more bow Knight but Bow knight is nohr unit and nohr is based of western culture.

Takumi have Samurai because he know swordplay not because he's based of samurai. He doesn't fit samurai archetype.

Never said anything about assassin.

 

[Florete]

Disclaimer: I haven't read every word in this topic, but I'm pretty sure I didn't miss anything relevant to what I'm about to say. If I did, I apologize.

Seeing this talk about armor brings up an issue I've got that the series has never addressed: armor has no practical benefits. A mount gives more movement and flying bypasses terrain, but armor comes only with weaknesses. The idea is that they're more defensive, but in practice it's not surprising for certain armored units in the series to not actually be all that durable.

I'm just wondering if you'd consider (or have already considered) applying an actual, observable benefit to armor as a unit type. In my own fantasy class list (yeah, I've got one...) I made armor immune to ranged attacks from swords, lances, and axes, but I can imagine it also mixing in with the weapon weight ideas you've been developing. And in case you weren't already planning to, I think it would be a good idea to list out and define what each unit type means.

[BANRYU]

3 hours ago, Florete said:

Disclaimer: I haven't read every word in this topic, but I'm pretty sure I didn't miss anything relevant to what I'm about to say. If I did, I apologize.

Seeing this talk about armor brings up an issue I've got that the series has never addressed: armor has no practical benefits. A mount gives more movement and flying bypasses terrain, but armor comes only with weaknesses. The idea is that they're more defensive, but in practice it's not surprising for certain armored units in the series to not actually be all that durable.

I'm just wondering if you'd consider (or have already considered) applying an actual, observable benefit to armor as a unit type. In my own fantasy class list (yeah, I've got one...) I made armor immune to ranged attacks from swords, lances, and axes, but I can imagine it also mixing in with the weapon weight ideas you've been developing. And in case you weren't already planning to, I think it would be a good idea to list out and define what each unit type means.

Nahhh dude don't sweat it, I think it'd be kinda unreasonable to expect that lol. A lot of the discussion so far is just stuff that brought the OP up to the point that it's at anyway so no worries.

Yeah honestly I've always felt that way about armored units as well-- and it's a real shame because lots of them can be very cool and strong in their own right save for a few crippling weaknesses (honestly the worst of which I feel is the poor movement-- if their other weaknesses weren't so pronounced this might not bother me as much, which is something I kind of want to exemplify). That's part of the reason I want to try to allow Knights/Generals to be built with higher Resistance or Speed than is typically granted in the series (though not both; that might be overkill), and why I wanted to give them at least a SLIGHT buff in the form of Wind magic being ineffective against them (because that makes sense anyway right?).

I do like your idea of having them be somewhat immune to certain projectile weapons; for instance, armored classes would probably be immune to any debuffing effects on Daggers, and would have a serious resistance to smaller/weaker Bow types, probably. Don't think I'd debuff Hand Axes/Javelins and the like, since I imagine weapons of a sufficient weight can actually do stuff to them, but the Wind Edge-type weapons would be automatically ineffective due to their use of Wind magic.

One idea I've been toying with is to have several sub-types of bows, some of which would be traditional, relatively weak poking bows that are strong against fliers (these would be also ineffective against armor, incidentally), while others would be only effective against Beasts/Horses a la the Hunter's Bow in Fates or the Assassin's Bow (specifically counters Daggers) in Heroes, or maybe some even lack an effectiveness and are just strong neutral weapons in general (these would be Greatbows like the GBA Warriors have in their sprites or something probably, and these could be weapons that could have enough Mt to deal passable damage to Armors without any sort of effectiveness modifier), to sort of emulate how strong they were in Fates but balanced out a bit. It's an ambitious idea and I'm reluctant to mess with the established formula, but it seems like it has some interesting potential as well.

EDIT: Okay for some reason my wife's computer decided to submit that response from something I hit on the keyboard, I have no idea. Response finished though ~___~

Edited February 28, 2017 by BANRYU

[BANRYU]

oooookay. It's been a while, so hopefully my double-posting in here isn't too much of a problem.

Despite being MOSTLY finished with this by now, I'm currently strongly debating adding in Mage Fighter / Grandmaster / some variation of the infantry Sword + Magic user, and pooooosssibly replacing Summoners with Dark Knights in the Shaman tree (and giving them Dark Magic in place of Fire Magic ofc). The new unit will either use Fire magic in their place or maybe Sorcs will-- or hell, maybe Fire magic just won't be exclusive....?? I dunno though it seems pretty good to make available for all 'choose a magic' classes shrug. 

I'll have to think about it and the magic balance some more. I am strongly leaning toward the new class and Dark Knights being Sword + Dark though. 

[Dragrath]

6 hours ago, BANRYU said:

oooookay. It's been a while, so hopefully my double-posting in here isn't too much of a problem.

Despite being MOSTLY finished with this by now, I'm currently strongly debating adding in Mage Fighter / Grandmaster / some variation of the infantry Sword + Magic user, and pooooosssibly replacing Summoners with Dark Knights in the Shaman tree (and giving them Dark Magic in place of Fire Magic ofc). The new unit will either use Fire magic in their place or maybe Sorcs will-- or hell, maybe Fire magic just won't be exclusive....?? I dunno though it seems pretty good to make available for all 'choose a magic' classes shrug. 

I'll have to think about it and the magic balance some more. I am strongly leaning toward the new class and Dark Knights being Sword + Dark though. 

Hmm magic is indeed tricky personally I opted w/ my fan class list to use a light/anima/dark separation but with the sub types of anima all being present along with a more infuluential magical triangle there(thus making it a choice in favor of the attacker rather than sole separation) but I will admit I kind of gave up with the anima types as seperate even though I wanted the magic to be split.

Hmm a possible idea would be to just have a different specialized mount for each magic type as the "mount option" on a tree that could include a specialist class,more generalist class and a third mounted option

(I admit it is just a decreased version of my one weapon per basic class option class variation though but it is an area worth exploring I have been stuck debating whether to pick one general unit(with many secondary promotions) or two variations per class type with mounts being special promotions requiring well a mount...

Not sure if this will be helpful for you or not 

[BANRYU]

Eyyy I dunno if anyone still cares about this, but I've continued work on it and consolidated! Full doc with class list and weapon list can be found here: 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BULlK1skm1Kk9iFNoz1zXckNErHom2OrD3iEaiA9mjI/edit

[Jotari]

I like the idea of armoured mages, but I'm not so sure if there's any use on making a Tier 1 version of the class. Especially when two of its three promotion options aren't armoured (or at least currently). Have you decided  base move values for them? Because if BattleMage is going from 4 move to 9 when promoting to Malig Knight, then that's kind of insane. Also, if Baron is going to be a dual physical/magic class, I'd suggest having it promote from Knight as well as mage.

[BANRYU]

14 hours ago, Jotari said:

I like the idea of armoured mages, but I'm not so sure if there's any use on making a Tier 1 version of the class. Especially when two of its three promotion options aren't armoured (or at least currently). Have you decided  base move values for them? Because if BattleMage is going from 4 move to 9 when promoting to Malig Knight, then that's kind of insane. Also, if Baron is going to be a dual physical/magic class, I'd suggest having it promote from Knight as well as mage.

Yeah, you're right it would make sense to have Knights also be able to upgrade to Baron...

...Hmm. 

Only trouble with that is there aren't really any other classes besides Knight that would make sense upgrading into Halberdier, an I'm honestly kinda loathe to introduce yet another base class... I guess there's always villagers, though I'd have preferred to make them the basic/generic catch-all Trainee class. hmm. 

I was trying to think of more armored upgraded classes as well (was toying with the idea of Blacksmith being an armored promote), but none of the others besides General, GK, DK, and Baron feel like they make a lot of sense... hmm. 

...DID I have Battlemages turning into Malig Knights? Hmm. Forgot about that. Guess this wasn't quite as nailed down as I hoped.... hmmm....

EDIT: Oh, realized I forgot to address the other Battlemage question. I'm not positive yet, but I'm thinking either they'll be more or less like ToD!Henry/LA!Lyn in Heroes in terms of the lowered movement and higher (mage-centric though not terrible frail) stats, or else will have normal movement and balanced defenses with lesser offenses, IE Awakening dark mages. Haven't quite decided between the two yet, suppose it will depend on how I decide to build the Shamans and other magic classes. I'm thinking Mages will have a balance of Mag/Skl/Spd/Res, Shamans will be Mag/Res focused, and Monks will be Skl/Spd focused, which would open up Battlemages for the 5 mov + Def/Res focus niche. Maybe they don't need to necessarily be armored even, hmm.

Welp looks like I got some more to think about, thanks for the input. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by BANRYU