Tuning the Spring Focus

[Lushen]

We have four new focus units.  All of them are going to need some new skills.  I'm at a bit of a loss for which skills, however.  I thought we could discuss them here and help each other out.  I know there's a few skill inherit threads and a few spring event threads but they're moving too quickly to have this discussion in depth.  Additionally, the information is spread across like 4 threads which is making things very confusing.

I was fortunate enough to receive Camilla before I got Chrom so those are the two units I've been thinking about.  Of course, these units receive support skills for training - but let's try and make them decent in arena/pve as well.

Camilla has absolutely horrible stats <total>, but is the first flying mage unit in the game.  I'm thinking about giving her Gronnraven+ and Iote's Shield.  This should allow her to be a flying green robin since she also has high defense and hp for a mage.  In fact, she has almost identical stats to M!Robin with the exception of more attack and less resistance (1 less hp, 1 more def).  This also means she isn't going to win any 1v1s with mages, however.

Chrom has better stats, but they're still worse than some other units.  Though, he is a green unit and those are in shortage.  His med-low speed puts him in the awkward category with all the other units.  I think the best thing to do with awkward speed stats is to throw a brave weapon on them (since most still shouldn't double) and hope for the best.  I think Fury 3 could help with his low stat total, since he has enough HP for it.  Additionally, if you decide to keep his weapon (which isn't very good), fury will do noticeably less damage every time.  His lowish attack also means he's suitable more as a tank than an attacker, but isn't a very good tank either.  Could really use some help with Chrom...

Haven't put much thought into Lucina or Xander since I don't have them.  Still want to hear what you think since I might go for Xander on my cavalry account.

Builds

For this, I'm only including the basic skills and the easier unit(s) to get them from.  Other skills can be anything.

Robin Camilla
Gronnraven+ ::::: Cecilla 5*
Bowbreaker 3 :::: Setsuna 4* or G TombBreaker :::: Henry
Triangle Adept ::: Roy 4*

Fury Camilla
Fury 3 :::::::::::::::::::: Hinata 4*

Fury Chrom
Fury 3 ::::::::::::::::::::::::: Hinata 4*
(OPT.) Despiration3 :::: Shanna 4*

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Lushen

[SaMaster14]

I actually just pulled 5* Xander and am attempting to level him up now. He seems to have high def/res, but his attack stat leaves you wanting more...

Also the passives are abysmal. Trying to think of what I should have him inherit for the A slot and if I should give him a special as well... 

[Roflolxp54]

Camilla isn't exactly fast to begin with (25 Spd neutral; 29 Spd with +Spd). You could replace Iote's Shield with Bowbreaker (since Iote's Shield will NOT prevent follow-up attacks from enemy archers that can do follow-up attacks against her) and give her Triangle Adept along with the Gronnraven+ tome. Passive C could be Threaten Res or Threaten Spd. For her special, she could go Moonbow or Bonfire.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Roflolxp54

[Lushen]

40 minutes ago, SaMaster14 said:

I actually just pulled 5* Xander and am attempting to level him up now. He seems to have high def/res, but his attack stat leaves you wanting more...

Also the passives are abysmal. Trying to think of what I should have him inherit for the A slot and if I should give him a special as well... 

Yea I have Reinhardt and Princilla with hone cavalry so Xander has pretty much been a less-effective blue version of Eldigan.  He can destroy everything with hone and goad active but otherwise, I'm not really sure what to do with him. Maybe fury to make him more like a blue eldigan?

35 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Camilla isn't exactly fast to begin with (25 Spd neutral; 29 Spd with +Spd). You could replace Iote's Shield with Bowbreaker (since Iote's Shield will NOT prevent follow-up attacks from enemy archers that can do follow-up attacks against her) and give her Triangle Adept along with the Gronnraven+ tome. Passive C could be Threaten Res or Threaten Spd. For her special, she could go Moonbow or Bonfire.

Good point on bowbreaker.  I still feel she can be best utilized by making her kill nocolors.  She should naturally be able to kill most blues already, decent at greens so making her kill nocolors as well will give her an advantage.  Additionally, in arena people will try to attack her with bow units and be very surprised.  Triangle adept is great because I don't expect to pit her against reds, though it doesn't help too much when she's against greens. 

 

Just found out my chrom is +sp, so with fury he should be able to double most things.  Very intriguing.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Lushen

[Roflolxp54]

18 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Good point on bowbreaker.  I still feel she can be best utilized by making her kill nocolors.  She should naturally be able to kill most blues already, decent at greens so making her kill nocolors as well will give her an advantage.  Additionally, in arena people will try to attack her with bow units and be very surprised.  Triangle adept is great because I don't expect to pit her against reds, though it doesn't help too much when she's against greens. 

If green units are a concern, you could alternatively run Green Tomebreaker instead of Bowbreaker. Triangle Adept on top of the WTA effect from Gronnraven along with her decent Def stat should help mitigate some of the damage caused by enemy archer units. Green Tomebreaker is preferred over Axebreaker since her Res is lower than her Def stat.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Roflolxp54

[eclipse]

-> Camilla
-> Bad stats

They don't belong in the same sentence.

I have one of the units, and the stats for the other three, so. . .

- Camilla: She came first in the alphabet anyway.  Gronnraven+ and Triangle Adept means that she takes a lot less arrow damage than any flier should, and it makes her really hurt against blues.  I have +Def, which is gonna be hilarious (suck it, Kagero).

- Chrom: I like this stat spread over his regular incarnation.  Between his weapon and base stats, he can safely run Fury, and benefit greatly from it - 35 Speed at neutral after Fury 3, and doesn't sacrifice his half-decent bulk.  Probably my favorite out of the bunch, just on stat spread alone.

- Lucina: Her Atk is on-par with M!Robin, and her general stat spread is similar to Nino, but she trades some Atk for bulk.  I'd give her Blarblade+, stack a couple of buffs, and let her loose.  The Atk/Spd +4 ensures that she doubles, and will make it hurt.

- Xander: It's Subaki on a horse with a worse weapon.  He really needs Ignis to shine (yes, Bonfire has a better CD, but his Atk is that bad).  I'd swap his weapon out for a Killer Lance+, and kill people via procs, because he sure as hell ain't doing it with that base Atk.  On the upside, he can take a physical beating (regular 5* Camilla does 10x2 damage to him), and his Speed isn't half-bad for a tank.  Actually, scratch that.  The only non-armors that beat out his Defense score are Hinata, Frederick, and Beruka, and he has more Res and Speed than them to boot.  Mobile tank, but lacks offense.

[Lushen]

12 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

If green units are a concern, you could alternatively run Green Tomebreaker instead of Bowbreaker. Triangle Adept on top of the WTA effect from Gronnraven along with her decent Def stat should help mitigate some of the damage caused by enemy archer units. Green Tombreaker is preferred over Axebreaker since her Res is lower than her Def stat.

Ah, perfect.  If she can kill Takumi with this, it'd be the ideal set for a green flying robin.  Forgot Triangle Adept stacks with Gronnraven.

9 minutes ago, eclipse said:

-> Camilla
-> Bad stats

They don't belong in the same sentence.

I suppose I shouldn't say bad.  I still don't like the spread for the same reason I don't like Robin's spread (even though he's really useful).  I can really only see her as a green flying robin because of it.  I guess I'm bias against the whole "tanky mage" idea.  Additionally, she has a very low stat total.  Regardless, the Robin move set with her actually makes her very viable, so I changed my post to say "stat total" as opposed to "stats".

We're in agreement with the Chrom fury thing.  Just need to find a Hinata for him to eat.

Xander is giving me the most trouble.  I can't think of any reason other than a giant carrot lance over some other blue horse units.  But, I suppose I don't have a 5* lance unit yet on my horse account so maybe he'll come into handy.  Still leaning towards fury jus cause but open to suggestions.

Didn't pull a Lucina so I can't comment on her.  No interest in any more blue mages on any of my accounts.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Lushen

[eclipse]

5 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Xander is giving me the most trouble.  I can't think of any reason other than a giant carrot lance over some other blue horse units.  But, I suppose I don't have a 5* lance unit yet on my horse account so maybe he'll come into handy.  Still leaning towards fury jus cause but open to suggestions.

Xander's issue is his bad Atk.  He's tied for third-highest combined defenses in the game (ties Young Tiki, beaten out by Wendy and Sheena).  His Speed is really good for a non-armored tank.  I'd go the Niles route, and use a proc as his main damage source.  With his defenses, he should be seeing lots of enemy-phase action.

[Rezzy]

I've got +HP,-Atk Camilla.  I already stuck Bonfire on her.  Would +Atk or Fury be better on her?  I've still got the Green Egg on her.  I haven't learned Defiant Speed or the Badge Skill on her yet.  Defiant Speed seems to work against the healing effect of the Green Egg, and I've got more Badges than my Feathers can keep up with.

[Okigen]

I'm grinding sp for Spring Xander and plan to put him next to real Xander in May because it will look hilarious. Mine is -spd +def so no hope of him doubling anyone, so I'll give him fury+carrot+wary fighter+obstruct+swap, making him a mobile wall which someone can hide and snipe from behind. I need to find that 'someone' first though lol

EDIT: maybe not fury along with wary fighter.

Edited April 1, 2017 by OKigen

[Rezzy]

10 minutes ago, OKigen said:

I'm grinding sp for Spring Xander and plan to put him next to real Xander in May because it will look hilarious. Mine is -spd +def so no hope of him doubling anyone, so I'll give him fury+carrot+wary fighter+obstruct+swap, making him a mobile wall which someone can hide and snipe from behind. I need to find that 'someone' first though lol

EDIT: maybe not fury along with wary fighter.

Wary Fighter is Armor Unit exclusive, sadly.

[Okigen]

5 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Wary Fighter is Armor Unit exclusive, sadly.

Ouch! It seems gamepress is not correct then.

Maybe give him Quick Riposte 2...

[eclipse]

26 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I've got +HP,-Atk Camilla.  I already stuck Bonfire on her.  Would +Atk or Fury be better on her?  I've still got the Green Egg on her.  I haven't learned Defiant Speed or the Badge Skill on her yet.  Defiant Speed seems to work against the healing effect of the Green Egg, and I've got more Badges than my Feathers can keep up with.

Fury, by far.  She can heal herself, she doesn't need the speed amp from Life and Death, and she doesn't want to lose her bulk.

4 minutes ago, OKigen said:

Ouch! It seems gamepress is not correct then.

Maybe give him Quick Riposte 2...

Or Brash Assault/-breaker skill, since physical units won't do that much damage to him, and -breakers can stop the likes of Tharja from doubling.

[Katrisa]

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

- Camilla: She came first in the alphabet anyway.  Gronnraven+ and Triangle Adept means that she takes a lot less arrow damage than any flier should, and it makes her really hurt against blues.  I have +Def, which is gonna be hilarious (suck it, Kagero).

Oohhhhh I really like this idea!  I did NOT realize Gronnraven was weapon advantage vs. colorless foes (I thought it was just effective against colorless like Gronnwol).  Does this entirely remove the flier penalty?  My brain is rolling this around and it seams super weird.  Even if an archer still applies their effective penalty, they would suffer a double triangle penalty (which is really severe).  She would double shot any colorless.  But her low speed means she's rarely going to get to double shot.  Even with say darting blow she's only going to clock in at 35 speed.

Oh you could go with Gronnraven+ Triangle Adept and Quick Riposte.  That is what I would do on Camilla.  Then she would should be able to counter kill  blue and archers even if they match her speed or outspeed her.

Her crappy speed makes her tricky on the offensive.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Katrisa

[Phoenix_Kensai]

I was lucky enough to get a -Spd +Atk Camilla, so I'm thinking of putting Gronnblade+ on her and supporting her with flier buffs, because a flying mage that can one-shot anything would be hilarious.

...Of course, I'd need Hinoka for that, at least. Preferably Caeda too. Fortunately they're both coming up in banners and I have a bunch of orbs left over... unfortunately, they share their color with others I don't want. So we'll see how that goes, I guess. If I can't get them, maybe I'll take the Gronnraven path too.

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Katrisa said:

Oohhhhh I really like this idea did NOT realize Gronnraven was weapon advantage vs. colorless foes.  Does this entirely remove the flier penalty?  My brain is rolling this around and it seams super weird.  Even if an archer still applies their effective penalty, they would suffer a double triangle penalty (which is really severe).  She would double shot any colorless.  But her low speed means she's rarely going to get to double shot.  Even with say darting blow she's only going to clock in at 35 speed.

Oh you could go with Gronnraven+ Triangle Adept and Quick Riposte.  That is what I would do on Camilla.  Then she would should be able to counter kill  blue and archers even if they match her speed or outspeed her.

Her crappy speed makes her tricky on the offensive.

While it won't negate the flier penalty entirely, it should drop it down to much more acceptable levels (if my math is right).

Mine will get G Tomebreaker, because I have the worst time against Julia/Nino.  I don't mind her low Speed, since she's fairly bulky.

[Katrisa]

 

6 minutes ago, Phoenix_Kensai said:

I was lucky enough to get a -Spd +Atk Camilla, so I'm thinking of putting Gronnblade+ on her and supporting her with flier buffs, because a flying mage that can one-shot anything would be hilarious.

...Of course, I'd need Hinoka for that, at least. Preferably Caeda too. Fortunately they're both coming up in banners and I have a bunch of orbs left over... unfortunately, they share their color with others I don't want. So we'll see how that goes, I guess. If I can't get them, maybe I'll take the Gronnraven path too.

I don't have Hinoka or Caeda too... so no +6 buffs non the less I want to do the same!  I have Cordelia+Attack -Def, Minerva+Def -Spd, and Palla+Att -Res.... two strong rolls and one sad Minerva (though she is one chunky monkey with that roll).  So a decent Camilla is making me drool.  Especially with reposition/draw back on Palla!

6 minutes ago, eclipse said:

While it won't negate the flier penalty entirely, it should drop it down to much more acceptable levels (if my math is right).

Thanks for the thoughts Eclipse!  No I think your math is roughly right.  From what I'm looking at 

So if Camilla def 30 were facing Takumi attack 50 you would probably either want:
Gronnraven and Triangle Adept which gives you : (75)+ (-30) = 45 damage - 30 defense = 15 damage a hit from Takumi

  or

Gronnraven and Iote's Shield which gives you :  (50)+ (-10) = 40 damage - 30 defense = 10 damage a hit from Takumi

So you could easily survive two hits from Takumi or other archers with either skill set.  So I think you're right Gronnraven and Triangle adept would be better coverage.  

Edited April 1, 2017 by Katrisa

[Lushen]

2 hours ago, Katrisa said:

Oohhhhh I really like this idea!  I did NOT realize Gronnraven was weapon advantage vs. colorless foes (I thought it was just effective against colorless like Gronnwol).  Does this entirely remove the flier penalty?  My brain is rolling this around and it seams super weird.  Even if an archer still applies their effective penalty, they would suffer a double triangle penalty (which is really severe).  She would double shot any colorless.  But her low speed means she's rarely going to get to double shot.  Even with say darting blow she's only going to clock in at 35 speed.

Oh you could go with Gronnraven+ Triangle Adept and Quick Riposte.  That is what I would do on Camilla.  Then she would should be able to counter kill  blue and archers even if they match her speed or outspeed her.

Her crappy speed makes her tricky on the offensive.

Yea, the only issue is Gronnraven+ is only obtained by 5* Cecilla and she needs weapon triangle and a breaker skill for maximum effectiveness.  Going to take quite a bit to get her there, but then she'll destroy everything.

 

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

Fury, by far.  She can heal herself, she doesn't need the speed amp from Life and Death, and she doesn't want to lose her bulk.

Or Brash Assault/-breaker skill, since physical units won't do that much damage to him, and -breakers can stop the likes of Tharja from doubling.

I agree with this.  The only way I could see her being an direct offensive unit (not playing the type advantage game) is with fury 3 AND life and death.  Otherwise, she's just not going to do enough with her low speed.  In this case, she'll be an offensive unit that can take a hit or two if need be.  Best used with a dancer imo.  Breakers could work, but they're more situational.

Totally misread this.  Both are obviously A slot.  I'll leave this here, however, because I think its important that everyone realize I'm not that bright.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Lushen

[MaskedAmpharos]

27 minutes ago, Katrisa said:

Oohhhhh I really like this idea did NOT realize Gronnraven was weapon advantage vs. colorless foes.  Does this entirely remove the flier penalty?  My brain is rolling this around and it seams super weird.  Even if an archer still applies their effective penalty, they would suffer a double triangle penalty (which is really severe).  She would double shot any colorless.  But her low speed means she's rarely going to get to double shot.  Even with say darting blow she's only going to clock in at 35 speed.

Oh you could go with Gronnraven+ Triangle Adept and Quick Riposte.  That is what I would do on Camilla.  Then she would should be able to counter kill  blue and archers even if they match her speed or outspeed her.

Her crappy speed makes her tricky on the offensive.

 

24 minutes ago, eclipse said:

While it won't negate the flier penalty entirely, it should drop it down to much more acceptable levels (if my math is right).

Mine will get G Tomebreaker, because I have the worst time against Julia/Nino.  I don't mind her low Speed, since she's fairly bulky.

Gronnraven won't negate the flier penalty entirely (but will reduce their normal bonus damage to the amount of bonus damage they'd have if they had WTA over you, which is a 30% decrease), but Gronnraven + Triangle Adept will (you'll take 10% less damage than if you were a regular non-flier unit). 

EDIT: Added maths

• Archer vs vanilla Easter Camilla = 1.5x bonus damage
• Archer vs Easter Camilla with Gronnraven = 1.5x bonus x 0.8 WTD = 1.2x damage
• Archer vs Easter Camilla with Gronnraven + Triangle Adept = 1.5x bonus x 0.6 WTD (w/ Triangle Adept 3) = 0.9x damage

Double EDIT: Calcs with Iote's, if anyone was interested

• Archer vs Easter Camilla with Iote's Shield = 1x damage
• Archer vs Easter Camilla with Iote's Shield and Gronnraven = 1 x 0.8 WTD = 0.8x damage

Gronnraven + Iote's Shield is the option that negates the most damage. However, I would still recommend taking Triangle Adept over Iote's Shield because while you take 10% more damage from archers, you deal 20% more damage to blues and colorless, which is a much better tradeoff overall.

Edited April 1, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos

[SaMaster14]

My Xander is neutral: not sure if what I did was the best way to go, but I gave him Death Blow 1 (Atk +2 when initiating attack) from an extra 4* Hawkeye I had, and also gave him Dragon Gaze (and then Dragon Fang: +50% Atk every 4 turns) from 2 extra Sophias I had available.

[LordFrigid]

I stuck Gronnblade on Camilla. Might give her Michalis' Iote's, since I still have that. She can make better use of it than my other fliers with her high Def too.

Definitely thinking -blade on Lucina to help with that Atk stat. Swift Sparrow is a solid A passive. Probably Desperation in the B slot, and ??? in the C. Buffs are cool, Breath of Life would be interesting, which I only say because it comes in handy on Julia sometimes.

Chrom is probably Fury/Desperation/Hone or Fortify (+Spd).

Xander...I like the Ignis idea from above. Beyond that...idk. Fury would make him a lower-Atk, blue Eldigan, and the Carrot Lance plays well with it. Renewal in the B slot, maybe? That or Quick Riposte. With Fury, neutral Atk would actually 2HKO a lot of the common swords, I think, and they'd double him...so full Ignis for whatever poor sap is fighting him next. Idk what to put in his C slot. Edit: Standard Fortify Def is probably fine.

Edit: Alternate option for Xander, Triangle Adept, since Fury and QR clash. 1 damage from +Atk/Death Blow Lucina at neutral Def. 10 damage from +Atk/Death Blow Sanaki at neutral Res (+4 Res boon cuts it to 6). Keep QR to make swords wish they'd taken up axe wielding instead.

Edited April 2, 2017 by LordFrigid

[Katrisa]

You're right Frigid Lucina would be terrifying with a Blarblade... that speed and +4attack+4 Speed buff! o/

[Rezzy]

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

Fury, by far.  She can heal herself, she doesn't need the speed amp from Life and Death, and she doesn't want to lose her bulk.

Ok, now the only question is to use Hinata for Fury 3 or settle for Fury 2 from Jeigan.  I have  4 Jeigan's and am worried if sacrifice Hinata, I'll want Fury 2 for someone else later.

Fury 2 will also exactly cancel out the HP she gets from Green Egg+.

[eclipse]

23 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Ok, now the only question is to use Hinata for Fury 3 or settle for Fury 2 from Jeigan.  I have  4 Jeigan's and am worried if sacrifice Hinata, I'll want Fury 2 for someone else later.

Fury 2 will also exactly cancel out the HP she gets from Green Egg+.

I guess Fury 2 for now.  If you like it, you can always bump it up to Fury 3!

[Rezzy]

Just now, eclipse said:

I guess Fury 2 for now.  If you like it, you can always bump it up to Fury 3!

Yeah, I'm a bit choosy when I use Skill inheritance.  I only ever do it when I have doubles, and also like to keep at least one of the prime skill extras available if need be as well.  I guess I have until Tuesday to get her ready for Arena, unless I get lucky and one of the random extra Bonus characters is somebody I've got trained up already.  Camilla will be replacing Julia as my Green Mage, so she has big shoes to fill.