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Rate the Supports: PoR Edition


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Saw this thread a while back. I figure I should contribute to it, since support conversations are one of my favourite things about FE. I'll start with the current characters and try to catch up when I have the time.

Zihark

Spoiler

Ilyana might just be the most uninteresting characters in Tellius (and possibly the series). Her support conversation with Zihark might be the closest she ever gets to any characterization. She tries to manipulate Zihark into giving her food, but he calls her out on her shenanigans, and all but demands that she become better. Doesn't work, but he did try. Also, Zihark's indifference to her is genuinely funny ("Your food smells good" "Yup, it sure does. See ya!" )

Brom provides a good friendship conversation. There's fighting tips, a few drinks in town, Zihark opening up a bit about his ex-girlfriend, and Brom being a proud dad. Also, marriage proposals. They're all nice interactions, even if they never go too deep into either character.

Muarim's support is the best of the three. Zihark's experiences with Laguz and Muarim's experiences with Beorc play each other very well, with acts of kindness from both parties leading to genuine friendship. Plus, we get some details on Muarim's life as a slave, and Zihark's previous relationship, which is great stuff.

So, Zihark seems to be the resident "friendly, sociable guy", much like Wil or Stahl from other entries, with the twist that he actually has an intriguing backstory. Unfortunately, none of his supports provide much insight into his Laguz girlfriend (How did they meet? Were they in Daein or Gallia? Is she dead or did she leave him?), so it becomes a very frustrating plot thread.

Despite the lack of depth, he has two good/decent social interactions, and also outperforms a joke character at comedy. I think 6.5 is fair.

Sothe

Spoiler

Astrid's support is one of those noble/commoner conversations, and it's a very good one. Sothe initially shows contempt, but quickly ends up respecting her as a person. I'd say there's more development on Astrid's side of things, but Sothe's turnaround is important to wrap the whole thing up. As a side-note, I think Sothe shows more personality when making fun of Astrid here than he does for the entirety of Radiant Dawn.

With Tormod we get something simpler. Tormod wants to force a friendship, Sothe first refuses, only accepting it when Tormod gets honest with his intentions. It's a nice idea, but it does feel incomplete. We see them start a friendship, but not live it. It would be nice if they met at C, Tormod opened up at B, and then we spent A with them talking about something like the Laguz, the Branded, Micaiah's existence, or even them just bickering over the loud/silent contrast mentioned at the end. You know, see what kind of friendship develops. As is, it does feel incomplete. (Also, the conversation changing depending on Muarim's life is a great idea, but that change relates to Tormod far more than Sothe)

So yeah, Sothe was a quite the edgy loner back then. Near useless as a fighter, but a decent character, though we never learn anything new about him from his supports. I think his best conversation is with Ike, when he shows affection for Daein and praises Ashnard's meritocracy. It's a good moment of gray morality, and can potentially be applied to every Daein soldier we see. But since that's not a support, Sothe gets stuck with a 7.5. (only having two conversations hurt his score a bit, here)

Jill

Spoiler

Jill is a fan favourite, and for good reason. She's got a pretty complete character arc throughout the game. Most of it happens outside of supports, but that's not to say they're bad, either.

Lethe's is probably the best overall. Jill tries to approach Lethe, learn more about the Laguz, but is treated with hostility by someone just as prejudiced as her. Jill, who's undergoing some humility, nevertheless listens to what Lethe has to say (and it's some good worldbuilding, too). At the end, Lethe shows some humility of her own when she realises Jill herself is making harsh sacrifices to become a better person. It's fantastic to see the conversation between those two flow so well without anybody acting out of character.

Mist's is also pretty good. It's all about the A-support, so we see them starting a friendship over the course of C and B, so that Jill's emotional breakdown at the end makes sense, and provides the emotional punch it needs to. I love the fact that her breakdown can either come from disappointment in her own father, or from a fear that she disappointed him. Both thoughts make sense regardless of whether he's dead or not.

And then there's Haar, which is... meh. Their A-support is fine, but the rest...aren't. These two aren't blank slates, they got a lot of screen time before Haar joined, and yet their C and B supports feel straight out of two Binding Blade characters meeting for the first time. It's really jarring, because surely they should be talking about their current situation, or their past, or the kind of man Shiharam was? Or even Jill's character development? Only their A support addresses any of the things it should be addressing.

Well, even with the bland Haar conversation, Jill gets a 9.5 from me. That score might be biased, since Jill's my favourite character in PoR, but I really like the supports with Lethe and Mist.

 

Edited by Jonnas
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Anyone who wants to join in can do so no problem. You can post for prior characters if you'd like as well.

The next three are two trainees and one the polar opposite: Astrid, Makalov, and Stefan.

My Opinions:

Astrid:

Spoiler

A naive, kind aristocrat girl who yearns for freedom in her life. Astrid came off as wholly stupid in RD, but going back to PoR, she ain’t so bad. Her Gatrie shows off her naïveté, but also her willingness and talent to learn what it takes to be a warrior. Her Sothe reveals the exact depths of her unhappiness in aristocratic life and how others suffer too. Her Makalov again has her being naive, and it’s not that bad. She also gets an Ike base convo in C14 which gives a little insight into life in Begnion.

Maybe she’s not Stella-r, but she gets points for trying: a 5.5.

Makalov:

Spoiler

A pathetic gambling sleaze ball of a brother who causes Marcia only woe. That is he not a moral paragon makes me like him, it’s nice to know that the heroes have a few ordinary terrible people among them- not all paragons of morality and justice. In comparison to say a psychopath or a cold blooded hitman, a gambler is a pretty petty criminal, but I like that. It is still immoral, but more realistic I feel for an army. 

On his supports, the Haar is bad, if slightly funny at best. The Astrid does show he loves his sister deep down, though the support is better when Marcia is dead, for he puts flowers on her grave instead of trying to goad her with them in the C. And with Marcia dead, one scene in the A becomes something out of left field. And on the topic of humor- the Bastian is splendid in this regard, Makalov is so scheming but unassuming, but Bastian does him in.

He appears in two base conversation- one of which is pretty funny.

If he were a person IRL, I’d treat Makalov like the scum he mostly is. But for his supports and such, I throw him 1000 gold, some dice, and a 3.5 for making me laugh.

Stefan:

Spoiler

Like Soren, Stefan has only two supports. One of which is with Soren, and as I said before, the support is only okay, it does neither character any real favors.

Mordecai is Stefan’s other support. The first C and B supports are a slow introduction, but damn the A is wickedly good! Stefan’s character is revealed, that of someone who hates how fate, how actions long in the past and beyond his control have cursed his life. Stefan accepts people hating him as normal, and though clearly annoyed by it, embraces it almost. He is bitter, and expects bitterness in return. That Mordecai chooses not to be bitter towards Stefan, defying a fundamental scientific law decreed by the Goddess Ashera herself in Stefan’s eyes, makes the whole persecution thing seem absurd and leads him to think Mordecai’s friendship funny. Plus, the world-building he and Mordecai give is wonderful. And in retrospect, we get a hint of foreshadowing of Stefan’s RD base conversation with the last couple lines (I’m back-reading the support a little with that RD base convo in mind- but I’m trying to restrain it). Not quite as good as Soren’s Ike support, but still of high quality.

His one PoR base conversation gives us a hint of Stefan as a warrior, just enough to explore that aspect of him. I wish we got more on his hidden village. And on a more tangental note, I want more on his many greats grandaddy Soane (who Stefan probably doesn’t know about). Soane had a relationship with a Beorc even after he and the other Ashera heroes realized the Branded proved a threat to peace between the two races and then greatly tabooed interracial romance. What got in this guy’s head?

Stefan, like Soren, I adore him. However, his rating will be a little lower, an 8.5.

 

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Ok, so I'll take care of the current ones, and rate Ike while I'm at it.

Astrid

Spoiler

Astrid is a good character in PoR. An inexperienced noble more than willing to learn, but also very naive about so much.

The support with Gatrie is a fun one. He's a dumb jock who knows nothing of what he intends to teach, she's an eager noble who's oblivious to his advances. Hilarity ensues. A bit on the repetitive side, but cute.

As I mentioned before, the interaction with Sothe is a pretty good noble/commoner talk. We hear a lot about what lead Astrid into becoming a soldier, and how determined she is going forward, all while winning over Sothe's respect.

Her support with Makalov... I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, their initial meeting with the flowers is pretty nice, it's interesting to see Astrid's naïveté applied to charity, and the overall interaction is fine in a vacuum... On the other hand, Makalov spends most of the support acting like a sleazy swindler, with his remorse at the end feeling like too little to justify their eventual marriage in Radiant Dawn. An extra bit where he does something nice to earn her trust back would have done wonders, but maybe I only feel that way because of RD. It's tough, because I don't want to rate this conversation based on what a future game did.

So, between a nice comedic talk, an undeniably good one, and a fine-but-retroactively-turned-cringy interaction, all of which show different facets of her characters, I think Astrid earns a 7.0

Makalov

Spoiler

Hey, it's the one guy I dislike more than Ilyana.

I literally just wrote how conflicted I am about his support with Astrid, so I'm just going to add that him putting flowers on Marcia's grave if she's dead might be the nicest thing Makalov has ever done. Giving her flowers while she's alive is also nice, but since he describes that as "buttering her up", it comes off as worse than it should. The fact that he spends B and A swindling Astrid's ring kinda bring the flower moment down.

His support with Haar is... bad. Just one of the blandest, most pointless things. Makalov thinks Haar is a debt collector... because he looks like a hardened soldier? And then he sleeps. Ok.

The one with Bastian is actually good, though. From the initial misunderstanding, to Bastian giving him the time of day and then trouncing everything that Makalov thought he was good at, it just all feels like a nice, well-structured development. All of it genuinely funny. (As a side-note, I wonder if Bastian ever planned on turning Makalov into a contact. No one would ever suspect this buffoon was gathering information for Crimea's Archsage)

Anyway, Makalov is an awful, unpleasant person, and he's lucky to have a man of Bastian's calibre raising his rating up to 4.0

Stefan

Spoiler

Stefan's conversation with Soren is more relevant on Soren's side. Stefan's role is limited to be a bringer of unpleasant news, though I think this is the first time we learn of the Branded village, so that's a plus.

His conversation with Mordecai is much better. He comes off as somewhat condescending (much like with Soren, in fact), but he does feel like a believable, cynical character shaped by his past experiences (providing some good worldbuilding in the process). Mordecai's innocent kindness is the perfect contrast towards Stefan's sour outlook in life, and it's great to see them form a friendship by the end. Hopefully Mordecai's optimism rubbed off on Stefan.

Unfortunately, Stefan only has two supports, even though he's not that anti-social. It's a shame, I would have loved to see him have a conversation with Lethe or Ranulf, or better, Zihark. The few that he does have are worthy of a 8.5

 

Also, I'll add a rating for Ike, since I need to catch up

Spoiler

Oscar provides Ike with his most average conversation. Some talk about cooking, some talk about fighting new foes, and some talk about the scope of the war. It feels like small talk, and there's nothing wrong with it... but there's nothing particularly memorable, either. Besides the +30 Avoid, I mean.

Ike/Soren is very extensive, as we get a ton of character development for Soren. It's one of the very few instances where we see him open up and get emotional, and that's only possible because of Ike being the person he is. So, even if this conversation is Soren-centric, only Ike could've had it.

Ike/Titania is excellent. The story of how Titania met Greil, and some heartwarming moments between Ike and his foster mother. Not much to say, it's just a lovely conversation between the two.

Lethe's is so-so. There's some talk about fighting, namely the differences between Beorc and Laguz, and then Lethe opens up and invites Ike to visit Gallia more often (but it's not like she likes him, or anything). It's an okay conversation.

Reyson is one of my favourite characters in PoR, and his characteristics all shine here. His strength of character, his flawed pride, his low self-esteem... Ike gets to deal with all of that. From Reyson's tales of eating hawk food to Ike successfully convincing him to accept his help, it's all nice interactions between the two. The exchange about Reyson's punch ("That punch hurt my bones" "Wow... but it felt good, right?" "Oh yeah.") gets me every time.

Ranulf provides some nice friendship conversations. Jovial cat puns, some talk about tails, and then a more serious moment where Ranulf says he keeps Ike more at arm's length. Unfortunately, Ike doesn't actually do much besides listen, but then again, that may be the point, him being the straight man to Ranulf's more extrovert behaviour.

The support with Elincia is really sweet, and possibly the one where Ike opens up the most. We see him give Elincia some tips, reminisce about the journey, compare their respective responsibilities... Good stuff all around.

Ike has more supports than any other character, which benefits his rating a lot: a couple of bland supports don't matter much when you got seven total. Even if most of his supports tend to focus on the character who isn't Ike (which is understandable, as his own character development is found in the main story and base conversations), they're still pretty good, meaning he still earns a 9.0 rating

 

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On 28-4-2017 at 2:26 AM, Jonnas said:

I think Sothe shows more personality when making fun of Astrid here than he does for the entirety of Radiant Dawn.

I think that's a bit of a running theme with POR Sothe in general. In that game he has some tiny additional traits that I feel add up if you combine them together. His conflicting view on Ashnard's rule, his cold behavior towards nobles and there are even hints that Sothe's actually a bit of a scardy cat under the cold behavior.

He kinda loses most of those little touches when gaining the overly protective attitude towards Micaiah.

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Astrid

Not much we haven't seen before. Gatrie drags down the support as usual, we've got the rogue telling the blue blood about the realities of the world (even though Sothe's a kid) and then she's too naïve to realize she's talking to a scumbag.

Astrid is a sweet character and I like her circumstances even if they are on the cliché side, but her best support, the with Sothe, reads like something you've heard many times before.

5/10.

Makalov

Here we have him, Tellius' most infamous character. Naturally, I think he earned that infamy for a good reason; there's not a single likeable thing about him and only his sister seems to have a problem with him being a piece of garbage. 

"Makalov being unlikeable doesn't make him a bad character!" - A fair point, but to that I say a big part of writing a character is making sure they've got believable interactions with others. Makalov doesn't. 

2/10.

Stefan

Meh.

5/10.

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