Child units are "better" than their parents?

[Shadow Mir]

4 minutes ago, Raybrand said:

so child units are only better when it comes to their max potential which because of a limited amount of missions you can only train them so far and train just as few to that extent, also the child units have limited starting classes,and corin, ryoma and xander are the exception due to their unique weapon, is that right?

You could say that. No post game doesn't help the children's case in that regard. Also, those three I mentioned were the first ones that came to mind. There might be more kids whose parents outdo them, but I don't know.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Dark Holy Elf]

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Personally, I'd much rather have the Seal skills, which are always welcome, over the Samurai class skills, which are mostly unreliable. And I'd only give swords the edge in terms of range if counting Raijinto, which I don't (Wakizashi is pretty much unusable outside of chokepointing). Also, Guard Naginata.

The Seal skills are decent enough but they don't allow a character to carve out an entirely new niche which is what Duelist's Blow lets Swordmasters do. The option of a normal katana or a Dual Katana lets Swordmasters (well, Ryoma and Hana at least) attack most enemies at 0 hit on the player phase. That's rather cool since it makes them like archers except they can often take one hit on the enemy phase (and Ryoma can often take more).

Wakizashi's use is indeed somewhat limited (it's basically a bow that can't double) but it still exists, and you completely glossed over my point about there being only one Javelin (and many Kodachis). Every lance-user you deploy beyond the first has no access to physical 1-2 range, and that's a definite drawback, especially since Sky Knights exist to compete for the limited-availability lances (including the Guard Naginata, which yes is rather cool).

[Shadow Mir]

32 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

The Seal skills are decent enough but they don't allow a character to carve out an entirely new niche which is what Duelist's Blow lets Swordmasters do. The option of a normal katana or a Dual Katana lets Swordmasters (well, Ryoma and Hana at least) attack most enemies at 0 hit on the player phase. That's rather cool since it makes them like archers except they can often take one hit on the enemy phase (and Ryoma can often take more).

Wakizashi's use is indeed somewhat limited (it's basically a bow that can't double) but it still exists, and you completely glossed over my point about there being only one Javelin (and many Kodachis). Every lance-user you deploy beyond the first has no access to physical 1-2 range, and that's a definite drawback, especially since Sky Knights exist to compete for the limited-availability lances (including the Guard Naginata, which yes is rather cool).

If they're using a Sunrise Katana, which is laughably weak, and thus compromises their offense, or if they're against anything using axes, which are utterly fucked against Swordmasters thanks to WTD. Also, Fates all but destroyed my faith in dodging, and it ain't like my faith in Swordmasters wasn't compromised beforehand, because it was.

I largely ignored it because I had no clue what to say about it; that said, I don't see the fact that there's more than one Kodachi to mean much, because you can't double with them.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[SavageVolug]

If I can chime in for a second I would say that while I don't care for any of the seal skills or any skill similar to it one of the things the lancers have over myrmidons is that they have a lot better defense. They are more tanky as a whole so even if myrms land a hit it's not going to do a whole lot anyway, while Lancer's are going to do a lot more damage to myrms with their higher strength and defense. Myrms are a specialist class to me they dash out and make their kill but as frontline fighters cavaliers, knights, lancers etc are much better suited to that.

[Interdimensional Observer]

10 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Every lance-user you deploy beyond the first has no access to physical 1-2 range, and that's a definite drawback, especially since Sky Knights exist to compete for the limited-availability lances (including the Guard Naginata, which yes is rather cool).

The Seal skills kinda allow Spear Masters to skip the Javelin. The Javelin can't double in Fates, so it's ability to ORKO baddies is gone. You could send someone into a pack of enemies alone and expect them to survive and kill them all over 2-3 turns with the Javelin, but in the more common scenario, the Seal skills work just as well. The common scenario being you tank a couple baddies on the enemy phase and clean up on the next player phase. A -6 Spd/Def has the sort of the same effect as a Javelin hit of 12 damage. Which should be sufficient for letting others sweep much of the time.

[Dark Holy Elf]

You still lose out on the exp you'd gain from those missed javelin counters, as well as losing the ability to attack at range 2 on player phase which is no small thing. No, you won't one-round things at 2 range. However, if you don't have an entire team that can one-round, then the chippy damage afforded by Kodachis/Javelins/etc. can add up to a KO. (Conversely, if one-rounding is so easy that weaker 2-range options are meaningless, well, Seal skills are too.)

 

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

If they're using a Sunrise Katana, which is laughably weak, and thus compromises their offense, or if they're against anything using axes, which are utterly fucked against Swordmasters thanks to WTD. Also, Fates all but destroyed my faith in dodging, and it ain't like my faith in Swordmasters wasn't compromised beforehand, because it was.

Swordmasters can also get 0 hit against most lance-users (dual katana reverses AND doubles the weapon triangle) and bow-users. This isn't a question of faith, 0 hit is 0 hit. Even if the hit is only near 0, well, this is on the player phase at least so you can react to the failed dodge and heal/dance.

I'm not even talking about GBA-style dodgetanking which I agree is weaker in this game (though still an option in some situations).

[SavageVolug]

I think I would have to agree with you Dark Holy Elf if it's a choice between doing some damage via a javelin or utilizing the seal defense (or something similar) I'll take the javelin thank you. The only exception would be if such a tactic means I'll get doubled which can happen at least with the hand axe. I haven't used the dual katana much but it sounds like it works like both a lance breaker from the GBA games and applies bonus damage at the same time. I will add I hate how they've changed how javelins and hand axes work, if you have a speed stat that would allow you to double you should be allowed to double regardless of what weapon you use. I'm not talking about the -5 speed or anything like that, that is something that has been done before with like say for instance the Iron Blade swords. Where they were heavy so you may take a drop in your speed I'm talking where you can have maxed out speed and STILL not be able to double with a hand axe or javelin.

Yeah dodge tanking is TOTALLY stronger in the GBA games. The avoidance of units in GBA games is way better than what it is in Fates. Something I've noticed though on Conquest which is the path I've played more of is, I can have Effie at level 10 in her base class and she's only earning 8 points of EXP. In the GBA games that kind of thing didn't start happening till levels 15 or higher. Meaning that it seems the amount of EXP you earn drops really fast compared to past entries, which makes it very hard to get units to where they can promote without grinding. I mean as I said I'm only on chapter 8 and all my level 10ish units are only earning about 8 EXP per kill.

Edited May 8, 2017 by SavageVolug
I spotted a grammar error.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

You still lose out on the exp you'd gain from those missed javelin counters, as well as losing the ability to attack at range 2 on player phase which is no small thing. No, you won't one-round things at 2 range. However, if you don't have an entire team that can one-round, then the chippy damage afforded by Kodachis/Javelins/etc. can add up to a KO. (Conversely, if one-rounding is so easy that weaker 2-range options are meaningless, well, Seal skills are too.)

 

Swordmasters can also get 0 hit against most lance-users (dual katana reverses AND doubles the weapon triangle) and bow-users. This isn't a question of faith, 0 hit is 0 hit. Even if the hit is only near 0, well, this is on the player phase at least so you can react to the failed dodge and heal/dance.

I'm not even talking about GBA-style dodgetanking which I agree is weaker in this game (though still an option in some situations).

TBH, I'd say that equipping the javelin wouldn't be worth it in the event that using it opened you up to getting doubled.

That's assuming that (1) Azura hasn't used up her turn already or isn't elsewhere, and (2) that my healers are still active and can reach them, neither of which I can readily assume, and of course, if neither of those is the case and I got unlucky with my swordmaster not dodging, I'm in a very bad position. And with how unreliable dodging is in Fates, is it any wonder that I value durability waaaay more than I did in prior games? That being said, I'd readily argue that weapon rank woes notwithstanding, Hana at least would be much better off in a class where she doesn't have to put herself on the chopping block every time she attacks. And I'm not seeing GBA style dodgetanking working in Fates because of the lack of terrain. It doesn't help that enemies can use attack stance for a boost to hit rate.

1 hour ago, SavageVolug said:

I think I would have to agree with you Dark Holy Elf if it's a choice between doing some damage via a javelin or utilizing the seal defense (or something similar) I'll take the javelin thank you. The only exception would be if such a tactic means I'll get doubled which can happen at least with the hand axe. I haven't used the dual katana much but it sounds like it works like both a lance breaker from the GBA games and applies bonus damage at the same time. I will add I hate how they've changed how javelins and hand axes work, if you have a speed stat that would allow you to double you should be allowed to double regardless of what weapon you use. I'm not talking about the -5 speed or anything like that, that is something that has been done before with like say for instance the Iron Blade swords. Where they were heavy so you may take a drop in your speed I'm talking where you can have maxed out speed and STILL not be able to double with a hand axe or javelin.

Yeah dodge tanking is TOTALLY stronger in the GBA games. The avoidance of units in GBA games is way better than what it is in Fates. Something I've noticed though on Conquest which is the path I've played more of is, I can have Effie at level 10 in her base class and she's only earning 8 points of EXP. In the GBA games that kind of thing didn't start happening till levels 15 or higher. Meaning that it seems the amount of EXP you earn drops really fast compared to past entries, which makes it very hard to get units to where they can promote without grinding. I mean as I said I'm only on chapter 8 and all my level 10ish units are only earning about 8 EXP per kill.

As for the dual katana, you're kinda on the mark, other than the applying bonus damage part. And I disagree on the hand axe and javelin thing - I like that I can't just equip a javelin or hand axe, throw that unit into a whole regiment of enemies, and call it a day.

You're absolutely correct there. Both on the avoid point, and on the point where Fates' exp formula is much stricter on higher level units than past entries.

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

TBH, I'd say that equipping the javelin wouldn't be worth it in the event that using it opened you up to getting doubled.

That's assuming that (1) Azura hasn't used up her turn already or isn't elsewhere, and (2) that my healers are still active and can reach them, neither of which I can readily assume, and of course, if neither of those is the case and I got unlucky with my swordmaster not dodging, I'm in a very bad position. And with how unreliable dodging is in Fates, is it any wonder that I value durability waaaay more than I did in prior games? That being said, I'd readily argue that weapon rank woes notwithstanding, Hana at least would be much better off in a class where she doesn't have to put herself on the chopping block every time she attacks. And I'm not seeing GBA style dodgetanking working in Fates because of the lack of terrain. It doesn't help that enemies can use attack stance for a boost to hit rate.

 

The first paragraph's argument makes little sense: we're talking about swordmasters here. They can eat that -5 penalty and not be doubled. And more generally, if the 1-2 weapon would cause you to be doubled, you can always not use it. It's not like enemy stats are a secret.

Second paragraph: Obviously correcting for bad luck isn't always an option, but the options often do exist, especially if you make your riskier moves first in the round (and as a general rule, you should). It's not like this is the only chance-based risk you take on the player phase which needs to be corrected in this manner: player misses are in a similar boat, and swordmasters are better than most classes at not having to worry about those thanks to good skill + accurate weapons.

Mm, would Hana be better in another class? I'm skeptical. Other classes might let her take one extra hit in some circumstances, but only that; her durability just isn't good. Heck, a few more points of defence often change nothing for her (she will often go from taking e.g. 80% to 70% per hit which is mostly meaningless). I generally find +spd pairups more effective for her than +def ones. She's at her best when she's lowering enemy hit to 0 so that her poor concrete durability doesn't matter (something she is very much capable of as a swordmaster).

Terrain isn't why GBA dodge-tanking was effective; some of the best GBA dodge-tanks were pegasus knights after all. It's certainly worse in this game but it can work better than you seem to think (and better than it did in FE11-12 for instance); a swordmaster against a mono weapon group (besides swords/tomes) can often pull it off. You may have noticed that people often do recommend Ryoma for this.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Mm, would Hana be better in another class? I'm skeptical. Other classes might let her take one extra hit in some circumstances, but only that; her durability just isn't good. Heck, a few more points of defence often change nothing for her (she will often go from taking e.g. 80% to 70% per hit which is mostly meaningless). I generally find +spd pairups more effective for her than +def ones. She's at her best when she's lowering enemy hit to 0 so that her poor concrete durability doesn't matter (something she is very much capable of as a swordmaster).

 

I don't think LMC meant a more durable class. He probably meant something like Ninja or Archer, where range 2 means no gambling at all most of the time on the player phase.

That said, I'm in agreement with you that Duelist Blow makes things fairly safe for SMs on the player phase. Not perfectly safe, but still reasonably so. And it isn't like confessing this would move Hana above Low Tier or something in a hypothetical tier list. And having just completed a 4-Star (I ignored the devil of EXP) EHM, I will say that dodging was only some of the time dependent on terrain. Florina (Lyn Mode Robed and Ringed) dodgetanked plenty without it, and anyone with a sword vs. axes could do the same. 

[Shadow Mir]

11 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I don't think LMC meant a more durable class. He probably meant something like Ninja or Archer, where range 2 means no gambling at all most of the time on the player phase.

That I did..

11 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

 

The first paragraph's argument makes little sense: we're talking about swordmasters here. They can eat that -5 penalty and not be doubled. And more generally, if the 1-2 weapon would cause you to be doubled, you can always not use it. It's not like enemy stats are a secret.

Second paragraph: Obviously correcting for bad luck isn't always an option, but the options often do exist, especially if you make your riskier moves first in the round (and as a general rule, you should). It's not like this is the only chance-based risk you take on the player phase which needs to be corrected in this manner: player misses are in a similar boat, and swordmasters are better than most classes at not having to worry about those thanks to good skill + accurate weapons.

Mm, would Hana be better in another class? I'm skeptical. Other classes might let her take one extra hit in some circumstances, but only that; her durability just isn't good. Heck, a few more points of defence often change nothing for her (she will often go from taking e.g. 80% to 70% per hit which is mostly meaningless). I generally find +spd pairups more effective for her than +def ones. She's at her best when she's lowering enemy hit to 0 so that her poor concrete durability doesn't matter (something she is very much capable of as a swordmaster).

Terrain isn't why GBA dodge-tanking was effective; some of the best GBA dodge-tanks were pegasus knights after all. It's certainly worse in this game but it can work better than you seem to think (and better than it did in FE11-12 for instance); a swordmaster against a mono weapon group (besides swords/tomes) can often pull it off. You may have noticed that people often do recommend Ryoma for this.

Maybe, but with the mention of javelins, I was thinking more along the lines of lance classes.

Player misses are little more than an annoyance, most of the time at least (this does depend on whatever you were engaging). An unlucky hit on a low-defense unit is more than just an annoyance - it's a serious threat to compromise a run.

I don't know how you got that from my insinuation of putting her in a class where she doesn't have to put her neck on the chopping block every time she attacks (an implication that she'd be better in a ranged class, where she doesn't need to risk a nasty hit that puts my run in severe jeopardy).

Maybe not, though it certainly helped (the generous evade formula, true hit, and enemies favoring inaccurate steel weapons, which was particularly noticeable in FE6, were also factors). Compare to Fates, where you can a hit boost just by having an adjacent ally support you, the evade formula is toned down, and hit chances below 50% are calculated with only 1 RN.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[joshcja]

Kids not named shiro seigbert shigure or kana are better than their parents if you build them to be better than their parents.

[eclipse]

On 5/7/2017 at 4:35 AM, Just call me AL said:

I'm trying to look at this from an efficient standpoint, though. And, last I recall, mods have little bearing in that.

Is the other person looking at it from an efficient standpoint?  Did you even mention that this was about efficiency?  Because it sure as hell doesn't say that in the opening post.

[Junkhead]

Maybe you ought to step away as soon as you heard "general concensus" as a form of logic.

[Shadow Mir]

On 5/13/2017 at 3:09 PM, Not_The_NSA said:

Regarding OP's question, unless it's Arthur/Percy and Birthright Hayato/Rhajat, I think parents are generally better than their children. My main issue with kids is that a lot of them have a hard time existing AND standing on their own two feet. For example, outside of a Lunatic/Classic Birthright file I grinded in for fun way back in March 2016 to recruit all the Hoshido kids, I never recruit Mitama because no female unit wants Azama's Priest bonuses and I don't like "cheating" with MyCastle and grabbing additional Heart Seals from other MyCastles to make him decent.

Even Odin and Subaki, both of whom are generally seen as inferior to their children?

[Shadow Mir]

15 hours ago, Not_The_NSA said:

"Generally seen," you speak for the masses now?

 

Yes, I believe Conquest Odin is better because of availability and Beruka and Leo actually like Samurai -> Swordmaster bonuses and Felicia (Ch 2) likes Dark Knight bonuses. Ophelia is dependant on mom, but typically she's worse than Leo and Odin in availability and maybe bulk (thinking Elise!Ophelia with 16 Def as a Dark Knight), doesn't pair well with others save for Butler Dwyer/Forrest, Maid Felicia (mom), or Swordmaster Odin, and Child Seal isn't that huge of a boon. Of course, if she goes Malig Knight (Camilla or Beruka inheritance), she's actually solid and has a niche over Leo and Odin. 

Revelation Odin is doa, but at least he exists unlike his kid who you need to grind for, I suppose.

Subaki and Caeldori are pretty much the same unit and require the same investment to be good, except Subaki joins earlier and Caeldori will have staff rank if you wait until Birthright and Revelation are almost done.

I think if Ophelia and Caeldori didn't share classes with their dads, I would rate them higher. Like, if Ophelia base was a Diviner or Wyvern Rider, she would have a legitimate niche because she would be the only Conquest unit with inherited Dark Mage skills + Rally Magic or Malig Knight with tome rank and good magic growth. But the reality is that she's another Dark Mage who exists late or is meh if she exists early with Vantage + Astra not being unique to her because Leo (buddy Odin) and Odin can also pull it off. Caeldori is just another Pegasus Knight in a world of Subaki, Hinoka, and Reina.

That's the issue with a lot of Fates kids: they're redundant, don't bring anything new to the table, and a lot of stuff kids can do, gen one units can do it as well. IS forgot without unique skills (FE4 parent skill stacking like Lunar Sword and Pursuit and part two or FE13 Galeforce) or crazy growths, not much reason to use kids.

Okay, that might not have been the best wording, but pretty much everyone else is of the opinion that Odin and Subaki are pretty bad. 

Personally, I don't see availability as much of a legitimate argument these days unless one party joins much earlier than the other - otherwise, it's much closer to a buzzword than a legit argument. Anyways, I find your statement on Odin questionable since there are only so many heart seals and master seals to go around for most of the game, and I wouldn't use them on a unit that's only going to be a pair up bot over someone who's endgame bound (I also consider pair up bots wasting unit slots). Btw, I don't see Offspring Seals as much of a boon at all.

See above for my opinion on availability. Also, for what it's worth, Caeldori has a personal skill that's actually useful, as opposed to Subaki's virtually worthless one (a hit and avoid boost that's only active at full HP). And your statement about waiting to get her until Offspring Seals enter the picture contradicts your other statement (that said, I say Offspring Seals are hardly worth the wait).

I don't think that's relevant when Odin and Subaki have issues that cause them to compare poorly against their daughters. Also, Vantage and Astra are hardly reliable.

Maybe, but they're still an option if their dads start to falter (I'd much rather use Nina or Sophie than continue to work with a Niles or Silas who's clearly underperforming). Also, FE4's a poor example because of the way it's structured.

[Just call me AL]

On 5/9/2017 at 2:00 AM, eclipse said:

Is the other person looking at it from an efficient standpoint?  Did you even mention that this was about efficiency?  Because it sure as hell doesn't say that in the opening post.

I admit it. That was a mistake on my part. Since, long story short, I tried to explain my reasoning, and it fell on deaf ears.

On 5/13/2017 at 4:09 PM, Not_The_NSA said:

Reading OP's post, I think he or she got into a petty argument with people on Facebook or Reddit and came here to blow off some stream and look for validation to their point.

Well, it wasn't either of those places. But yeah. That's pretty much what happened.

Quote

Regarding OP's question, unless it's Arthur/Percy and Birthright Hayato/Rhajat, I think parents are generally better than their children. My main issue with kids is that a lot of them have a hard time existing AND standing on their own two feet.

Percy, I could see more clearly. Rhajat? I think she's more route-dependent than anything. If I'm not mistaken, Hayato's kinda decent on Rev.

18 hours ago, Not_The_NSA said:

Yes, I believe Conquest Odin is better because of availability and Beruka and Leo actually like Samurai -> Swordmaster bonuses and Felicia (Ch 2) likes Dark Knight bonuses.

Beruka can't get Myrmidon from Odin, though. Only Dark Mage, which she would get from Camilla. And I don't think pair-up bonuses alone make up for overall mediocre combat during the time in which he is available.

Quote

Ophelia is dependant on mom, but typically she's worse than Leo and Odin in availability and maybe bulk (thinking Elise!Ophelia with 16 Def as a Dark Knight), doesn't pair well with others save for Butler Dwyer/Forrest, Maid Felicia (mom), or Swordmaster Odin, and Child Seal isn't that huge of a boon. Of course, if she goes Malig Knight (Camilla or Beruka inheritance), she's actually solid and has a niche over Leo and Odin. 

Leo, I could see. Odin? Well, if it helps, regardless of the mom, she does face an easier time getting stronger than her dad. Her deal is kinda like Rebecca vs Louise in FE7, from what I see. With Odin being Rebecca in this case.

Quote

Subaki and Caeldori are pretty much the same unit and require the same investment to be good, except Subaki joins earlier and Caeldori will have staff rank if you wait until Birthright and Revelation are almost done.

I think you mean "won't have staff rank." And if it's worth mentioning, Subaki's not very long-term, and Caeldori does get better speed than him anyways. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by Just call me AL

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

See above for my opinion on availability. Also, for what it's worth, Caeldori has a personal skill that's actually useful, as opposed to Subaki's virtually worthless one (a hit and avoid boost that's only active at full HP). And your statement about waiting to get her until Offspring Seals enter the picture contradicts your other statement (that said, I say Offspring Seals are hardly worth the wait).

Availability only matters if you're doing something significant with it, And in Odin's case, he probably isn't. So here, I agree with you.

Perfectionist would be better if Subaki wasn't one of the slowest units by personal growth in Fates. On Hana it'd be better (no need to get into a SM bashing- I'm just pointing out that an avoid bonus only matters if you are already dodgy or borderline dodgy). Prodigy is somewhat situational, and if it triggers, it is sorta a sign that Caeldori is weak (because it means Caeldori has low Strength when it activates vs. physical units). I'd still call Prodigy better in practice though.

I like waiting for Offspring Seals. If I don't need the kids right away, then I wait. For Offspring Seals let you skip E rank weapon hell with the kids and you get a rare unit actually decently versed in multiple weapon types at base. I concede finite weapon quantities makes having a character wield multiple weapon types less desirable, but I still like the option.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I like waiting for Offspring Seals. If I don't need the kids right away, then I wait. For Offspring Seals let you skip E rank weapon hell with the kids and you get a rare unit actually decently versed in multiple weapon types at base. I concede finite weapon quantities makes having a character wield multiple weapon types less desirable, but I still like the option.

I don't consider waiting worth it because some children *cough Ignatius cough Selkie cough Shiro hack Forrest hack* have paralogues that are just flat out poorly designed for lategame; also, I don't think the ability of Offspring Seals to auto-level the secondary weapon is that great in actual practice (3 chapters after they become relevant just so the kid can start at D rank in their secondary... when I can accomplish that in less time??? No thank you).

Edited May 20, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Moblin Major General]

17 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 *hack Forrest hack*

I see no use for the Entrap staff other than stopping the Locktouch Berserker from offing Forrest, so his paralogue isn't as much of an issue.if you can position some strong units by the time you enter the range of an enemy. Also, I would Argue that Siegbert's chapter is even worse than Shiro's.

[Shadow Mir]

1 minute ago, Hylian Air Force said:

I see no use for the Entrap staff other than stopping the Locktouch Berserker from offing Forrest, so his paralogue isn't as much of an issue.if you can position some strong units by the time you enter the range of an enemy. Also, I would Argue that Siegbert's chapter is even worse than Shiro's.

Bold: How so? Because once the enemies are all promoted, Shiro's liable to commit suicide on the nearest enemy with next to no way to avert that, and as far as I'm concerned, that's just plain awful game design.

The rest: I dunno - I like using it to isolate threatening enemies (See: those paired up horse dudes in Conquest's Endgame).

[Moblin Major General]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Bold: How so? Because once the enemies are all promoted, Shiro's liable to commit suicide on the nearest enemy with next to no way to avert that, and as far as I'm concerned, that's just plain awful game design.

Maybe it's my luck that makes it worse for me to keep Siegbert alive. Your luck clouds your judgment a lot, and mine is as close to piss poor in Conquest as you can get.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Maybe it's my luck that makes it worse for me to keep Siegbert alive. Your luck clouds your judgment a lot, and mine is as close to piss poor in Conquest as you can get.

Funny you say that - My luck isn't exactly stellar (which primarily manifests in Hyrule Warriors/Legends, especially Manhandla Stalk-wise).

[Shadow Mir]

12 hours ago, Not_The_NSA said:

We can agree to disagree and we obviously play and value things differently; I was just answering your questions, not looking to get into an argument and read my answer is a "buzzword" while having no idea what is your position in this argument. For me, there is more value in units that exist and contribute instead of eugenics plus needing a lot of investment to exist for potentially low return.

However, I disagree that the children are an option over the parents. They're not guaranteed to exist, mother-dependant, and most join late. 

Well, like I said earlier, I don't really see availability as that big an advantage unless either the early joiner can actually make notable contributions (which I highly doubt can be said of Odin or Subaki) or the other party comes noticeably later, especially if the early joiner sucks or otherwise drags the team down (something I could see, say, Arthur doing). That being said, I think Arthur's not the only parent character who has issues. . .

Answer me this, then: Do you feel the same way about Awakening's kids? Because all three of those could be said about Awakening's kids (just change "mother" to "father").

Edited May 20, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia