The Southern Continent

[Jotari]

Quote

"After the war, he unexpectedly disappeared along with the Brave Sword.
Rumors say that he crossed over to a continent to the south in search of new conflicts."

-Deen's original Gaiden Ending

So Deen's original ending talked about a continent in the south. It's possible it was originally meant to be Archanea, further suggested by the fact that the reference has (apparently) been removed in the remake. It's highly doubtful we'll ever get info on this Southern Continent but still let's speculate. I've put some options in the polls and discuss which ones you think are most likely, or which ones you'd like the most.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Jotari

[Armagon]

If i remember correctly, in Awakening's world map, you could see what looks to be parts of a continent to the south of Ylisse and Valm. Of course, there's also a partially visible continent to the north of Ylisse and Valm, as well as a continent to the west of Valm. One of those three continents has to be Jugdral. At a guess, i'll say it's the western one, since the northern and southern continents are closer to the poles, and thus, on the colder side of things. And Jugdral isn't cold, except for it's northern sections of the continent. So because of this, the Southern Continent is likely a continent we haven't been to yet imo.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Armagon

[Jotari]

34 minutes ago, Armagon said:

If i remember correctly, in Awakening's world map, you could see what looks to be parts of a continent to the south of Ylisse and Valm. Of course, there's also a partially visible continent to the north of Ylisse and Valm, as well as a continent to the west of Valm. One of those three continents has to be Jugdral. At a guess, i'll say it's the western one, since the northern and southern continents are closer to the poles, and thus, on the colder side of things. And Jugdral isn't cold, except for it's northern sections of the continent. So because of this, the Southern Continent is likely a continent we haven't been to yet imo.

They give an impression of other continents but disappointingly those landmasses on the edge of Awakening's map are just coastlines from Ylisse and Valm rotated. So I'm not sure you can even definitively say they're there. Or at least if you accept they're there then you also have accept that the Fire Emblem world has some crazy repetitive geography.

[Slumber]

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

If i remember correctly, in Awakening's world map, you could see what looks to be parts of a continent to the south of Ylisse and Valm. Of course, there's also a partially visible continent to the north of Ylisse and Valm, as well as a continent to the west of Valm. One of those three continents has to be Jugdral. At a guess, i'll say it's the western one, since the northern and southern continents are closer to the poles, and thus, on the colder side of things. And Jugdral isn't cold, except for it's northern sections of the continent. So because of this, the Southern Continent is likely a continent we haven't been to yet imo.

If we want to get all geographical, Jugdral is likely a northern continent. 

Valentia/Valm and Archanea/Ylisse lack cold, snowy climates(Archanea has the area surrounding the Ice Dragon Temple, which is snowy and cold, but it's among mountains, and otherwise an area that doesn't make any sense for it to be cold). 

If Jugdral were along the same latitude as Valentia/Archanea, Silesse wouldn't have a snowy climate. It'd have a climate similar to northern Valentia/Archanea, which appear to be warmer climates(Rigel and Ferox). If anything, this would put northern Valentia/Archanea below the equator of the planet, since it does appear that locations seem to become warmer the more northern they are. 

I'm making a big stretch by assuming IS put any coherent thought into the world that these games take place in, but Jugdral is likely a bit north of the other two continents we know of. Yied desert kind of fucks everything up, though, since it separates the probably coldish Isaac/Definitely cold Silesse from the forest-heavy Granbell. And then Thracia to the south is another hot, arid climate. 

If I had to guess, Ferox and Rigel would either line up with Yied, or be slightly below Thracia. The map of Awakening makes it seem more likely to be Thracia, but I haven't seen Awakening's map in a long time. 

Edited June 4, 2017 by Slumber

[Jotari]

52 minutes ago, Slumber said:

If we want to get all geographical, Jugdral is likely a northern continent. 

Valentia/Valm and Archanea/Ylisse lack cold, snowy climates(Archanea has the area surrounding the Ice Dragon Temple, which is snowy and cold, but it's among mountains, and otherwise an area that doesn't make any sense for it to be cold). 

If Jugdral were along the same longitude as Valentia/Archanea, Silesse wouldn't have a snowy climate. It'd have a climate similar to northern Valentia/Archanea, which appear to be warmer climates(Rigel and Ferox). If anything, this would put northern Valentia/Archanea below the equator of the planet, since it does appear that locations seem to become warmer the more northern they are. 

I'm making a big stretch by assuming IS put any coherent thought into the world that these games take place in, but Jugdral is likely a bit north of the other two continents we know of. Yied desert kind of fucks everything up, though, since it separates the probably coldish Isaac/Definitely cold Silesse from the forest-heavy Granbell. And then Thracia to the south is another hot, arid climate. 

If I had to guess, Ferox and Rigel would either line up with Yied, or be slightly below Thracia. The map of Awakening makes it seem more likely to be Thracia, but I haven't seen Awakening's map in a long time. 

Is Silesea really that cold though? It's pretty snow filled in Chapter 4 but it is expressly noted to be winter at that time. And then the same parts of chapter 5 that are overlapped look just like the rest of the contient. I do associate Silesea as being cold myself so I wouldn't be surprised if there's dialogue noting it to be so but I would like to have something cited if that's the case.

[Slumber]

9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Is Silesea really that cold though? It's pretty snow filled in Chapter 4 but it is expressly noted to be winter at that time. And then the same parts of chapter 5 that are overlapped look just like the rest of the contient. I do associate Silesea as being cold myself so I wouldn't be surprised if there's dialogue noting it to be so but I would like to have something cited if that's the case.

Even if it was just winter, Silesse is surrounded by apparently open sea to the north, east, and west, and a desert to the south. For it to experience a cold winter like that, despite the sea breezes which would push warm air to the land, and arid land to the south, it would have to be pretty far from the equator, and likely fairly close to a pole.

And while we never see Rigel and Ferox in another season, they seem to be depicted as hotter climates(Ferox more so, as half of it is a desert). 

Now that I think about it, what is it with the Archanea world and deserts? I know that they make for some interesting maps, but there are at least four large deserts on three continents. 

Again, probably trying to make more sense than went into designing a logical world map of Archanea-land.

[Jotari]

17 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Even if it was just winter, Silesse is surrounded by apparently open sea to the north, east, and west, and a desert to the south. For it to experience a cold winter like that, despite the sea breezes which would push warm air to the land, and arid land to the south, it would have to be pretty far from the equator, and likely fairly close to a pole.

And while we never see Rigel and Ferox in another season, they seem to be depicted as hotter climates(Ferox more so, as half of it is a desert). 

Now that I think about it, what is it with the Archanea world and deserts? I know that they make for some interesting maps, but there are at least four large deserts on three continents. 

Again, probably trying to make more sense than went into designing a logical world map of Archanea-land.

It's possible Silesse is just highly elevated like Regna Feroxi. Consider how Nepal is on the same lattitude as Egypt. And it does seem pretty mountainous. Of course that would lead to some epic cliffs that the pirates are climbing to raid villages...

Four large deserts on three continents? Kaden, Yied and whatever Grieth's Desert area is called. What's the fourth? (also Archanea is hardly alone in that regard. Every Fire Emblem continent has inexplicable deserts despite being European inspired).

Edited June 4, 2017 by Jotari

[Slumber]

16 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's possible Silesse is just highly elevated like Regna Feroxi. Consider how Nepal is on the same lattitude as Egypt. And it does seem pretty mountainous. Of course that would lead to some epic cliffs that the pirates are climbing to raid villages...

Four large deserts on three continents? Kaden, Yied and whatever Grieth's Desert area is called. What's the fourth? (also Archanea is hardly alone in that regard. Every Fire Emblem continent has inexplicable deserts despite being European inspired).

I think I was wrong about 4. Kaden spills into Plegia, since the desert spans both Ferox and Plegia. In my head I was splitting Plegia and Ferox into two different deserts. So I guess it'd be one on each continent. 

And I wouldn't necessarily say it's "inexplicable". Just really depends on where it falls on the map. Still, on per continent is pretty crazy, since if they ever revisit Archanea-land and use a different continent, it will also probably have a desert. 

And Silesse can't be super elevated. It has shores all around it. It's at roughly sea level. It's not like Colorado or Nepal, which aren't far from warm climates, but are still chilly areas due to elevation. Yeah, we see mountains near the middle of the country, but we see sandy shores all near the sea, where it's also cold. 

Edited June 4, 2017 by Slumber

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Slumber said:

And Silesse can't be super elevated. It has shores all around it. It's at roughly sea level. It's not like Colorado or Nepal, which aren't far from warm climates, but are still chilly areas due to elevation. Yeah, we see mountains near the middle of the country, but we see sandy shores all near the sea, where it's also cold. 

Yeah I noticed the flaw in that logic myself as I made my post. But rather than abandon it I choose to invoke the image of some ridiculously bad ass bandits scaling cliffs that dwarf The Wall in ASOIAF.

[qwernst]

For the comments discussing Jugdral is north of Archanea because of Silesse's winter, Echoes mentioned a number of times about Rigel being colder than Zofia.

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, qwernst said:

For the comments discussing Jugdral is north of Archanea because of Silesse's winter, Echoes mentioned a number of times about Rigel being colder than Zofia.

Yeah that's basically what slumber was saying. I was just playing devil's advocate to get a clearer picture of things.

[qwernst]

Sorry. I just saw the first comment mentioning it and replied.

[NewTypeEldie]

On 6/4/2017 at 2:50 AM, Jotari said:

Is Silesea really that cold though? It's pretty snow filled in Chapter 4 but it is expressly noted to be winter at that time. And then the same parts of chapter 5 that are overlapped look just like the rest of the contient. I do associate Silesea as being cold myself so I wouldn't be surprised if there's dialogue noting it to be so but I would like to have something cited if that's the case.

You have a point here, it's important to notice that Silesse is at the same height as Isaach and it's southernmost tip is approximately at the same latitude as Phinora in Yied. I'm inclined to believe that the reason for the colder temperatures may be because of altitude, since both Silesse and Isaach have many mountains. We never see Isaach in winter however, though I think it would be reasonable to believe that it may be just as snowy as Silesse, at least from Tirnanog to Sophara.

[X-Naut]

Altitude is possible but I think time of year is at least part of it, since the grounds around Zaxon castle are snowless at the start of Chapter 5. The Silessian civil war could have occurred during the winter while the invasion of Grannvale from the north happened once spring warmed the area up. There may have been snow in other parts of Jugdral too.

[VincentASM]

Personally I think the game(s) just use fantasy geography, not real geography. So the north part of the continent is always colder, no matter the latitude.

I can say it's not Archanea to the south, since even in Gaiden, they made a note of Archanea being to the far east.

Logically Jugdral would make the most sense, but it could be absolutely anything.

Man, if only they revealed an actual 100% accurate globe of the Fire Emblem world one day...

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, VincentASM said:

Personally I think the game(s) just use fantasy geography, not real geography. So the north part of the continent is always colder, no matter the latitude.

I can say it's not Archanea to the south, since even in Gaiden, they made a note of Archanea being to the far east.

Logically Jugdral would make the most sense, but it could be absolutely anything.

Man, if only they revealed an actual 100% accurate globe of the Fire Emblem world one day...

Ah I see. The White Wings introduction in Chapter 2. Interesting. That begs the question, why did the developers remove the reference in the remake (unless they didn't and the translators just neglected to include it, someone do tell if that is or isn't the case)? 

[Slumber]

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Ah I see. The White Wings introduction in Chapter 2. Interesting. That begs the question, why did the developers remove the reference in the remake (unless they didn't and the translators just neglected to include it, someone do tell if that is or isn't the case)? 

Maybe they intended the "southern continent" to be what comes after the Archanea games, but then changed their ideas and Jugdral turned out to be something way different than they originally intended. That's the only thing I could think of, that the "southern continent" doesn't really exist anymore, so they just didn't include its mention in the remake.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Slumber

[VincentASM]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Ah I see. The White Wings introduction in Chapter 2. Interesting. That begs the question, why did the developers remove the reference in the remake (unless they didn't and the translators just neglected to include it, someone do tell if that is or isn't the case)? 

Yeah, I agree with plans possibly changing.

My take is that waaay back, during the time of Gaiden, it was literally anything goes, so they could write whatever they wanted without future repercussions.

But 13 or so games later, now that the series is more established, they have to be very careful with references. If they had included the southern continent in Echoes, it would certainly get fans talking, but then there would be some who start wondering if it's an unresolved plot point or sequel bait.

The other theory is that the southern continent is Lieberia from TearRing Saga, which is no longer part of the Fire Emblem canon. Lieberia does share some similarities to Valentia, such as dragons and monsters. Plus it had talk of dragons from a northern continent (Valentia or Archanea) and migrants from the eastern(?)  continent of Jugd (which is totally not Jugdral).

Another hint is that Emblem Saga (the original version of TearRing Saga) was meant to occur around the same time period as Marth's adventures--and by extension, Alm and Celica's.

Edited June 6, 2017 by VincentASM

[Jotari]

19 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

Yeah, I agree with plans possibly changing.

My take is that waaay back, during the time of Gaiden, it was literally anything goes, so they could write whatever they wanted without future repercussions.

But 13 or so games later, now that the series is more established, they have to be very careful with references. If they had included the southern continent in Echoes, it would certainly get fans talking, but then there would be some who start wondering if it's an unresolved plot point or sequel bait.

The other theory is that the southern continent is Lieberia from TearRing Saga, which is no longer part of the Fire Emblem canon. Lieberia does share some similarities to Valentia, such as dragons and monsters. Plus it had talk of dragons from a northern continent (Valentia or Archanea) and migrants from the eastern(?)  continent of Jugd (which is totally not Jugdral).

Another hint is that Emblem Saga (the original version of TearRing Saga) was meant to occur around the same time period as Marth's adventures--and by extension, Alm and Celica's.

Well if it's south of Archanea then Jugdral would probably be more northern than eastern in relation to it based on what we discussed about it's geography (though one could take such climate changes with a grain of salt). I think you've hit the nail on the head though. An necessary reference to a southern continent in one game, an unnecessary reference to a northern continent in another. Just makes sense that they're referencing each other. Now is there any wayward mercenary with only one eye that could be a redesigned Deen for legal reasons? I really should play TearRing Saga some day.

Of course even if it was originally meant to be Liberia, IS have free rein to decide it is whatever they want it to be now. Instead of shying away from it I would have really liked if they went full haul and let the player go there in post game like Archanea. Just for a village and dungeon if nothing else. Being southern it could be all Egyptian themed with a pyramid or Spinx to explore. Alas such things are the stuff of dreams however.

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by Jotari

[KoimanZX]

When I saw "southern continent," I thought you meant a continent that goes into the southern hemisphere, where the south is colder and the equator is to the north. I can be really thick sometimes.