Is it plausible that there are more than one each of the Legendary Bird Trio?

[DisobeyedCargo]

I starting thinking about this because they can be captured in all core series Gen 1 games, Platinum, Heartgold and Soulsilver, and X and Y. Thats more than any other legendary Pokémon. there's also the fact that they can be seen on pyramid King Brandon's team in the Gold Symbol Challenge in Emerald.

 

[Nym]

Well there's 2 Mewtwo... and apparently Lugia can breed in the anime so...

Edited August 3, 2017 by Nym

[DisobeyedCargo]

4 minutes ago, Nym said:

Well there's 2 Mewtwo... and apparently Lugia can breed in the anime so...

Well, I consider the games and anime to be two different canons, so Lugia being able to breed in the anime imo doesn't mean it can in the games.

[Acacia Sgt]

There's certainly evidence against them being just one, considering things.

At the very least, I would make the argument that the ones you find in HG/SS can be the same birds you can find in R/B/Y/G/FR/LG, since there's no evidence to say they were captured for them to not be the same ones, being in the same places (excluding Moltres's Gen III placement), three in-game years later.

11 minutes ago, Nym said:

Well there's 2 Mewtwo...

I could make the same argument here, if you mean the Mewtwo from Cerulean Cave, and the one from the Pokémon Village.

[DisobeyedCargo]

 

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

There's certainly evidence against them being just one, considering things.

At the very least, I would make the argument that the ones you find in HG/SS can be the same birds you can find in R/B/Y/G/FR/LG, since there's no evidence to say they were captured for them to not be the same ones, being in the same places (excluding Moltres's Gen III placement), three in-game years later.

I could make the same argument here, if you mean the Mewtwo from Cerulean Cave, and the one from the Pokémon Village.

And then there are also the birds that you can find in Platinum, but Sinnoh is most likely North of Kanto and Johto, so MAYBE they could be those same birds, but it's unlikely, especially since they also show up in Kalos.

[LucarioGamer812]

Well you do consider the anime different from the canon so that eliminates some of the examples, but can we consider the ones that can appear in the battle Factory and the other Battle Frontier Facilities. Brandon has all 3 Regi's, plus all 3 birds as well. Source: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pyramid_King_Brandon#In_the_games

[JHufself]

I think it's readily accepted that there are multiple Legendary Birds - Pokémon Snap (as well as Pokémon GO) show us that they come from eggs, and eggs have to come from some previous generation of the same species. Unlike Regis or the Lake Guardians, Legendary Birds don't have ties to any specific lore that implies that there is only one. Since they also embody natural phenomena, it may as well be natural to assume there are more than one Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres.

Another way of looking at it is this: Arceus can create life from nothing, as seen in the special HGSS Sinjoh Ruins event trigger, wherein Arceus creates an egg containing another Dialga, Palkia, or Giratina, thus adding one to the one already existing that appears in the DPPt story concurrently. Thus, it stands to reason that Arceus can create multiple of any species of Pokémon (other than itself), so it is actually plausible that there are multiple of every non-Arceus Pokémon.

[DisobeyedCargo]

2 minutes ago, JHufself said:

I think it's readily accepted that there are multiple Legendary Birds - Pokémon Snap (as well as Pokémon GO) show us that they come from eggs, and eggs have to come from some previous generation of the same species. Unlike Regis or the Lake Guardians, Legendary Birds don't have ties to any specific lore that implies that there is only one. Since they also embody natural phenomena, it may as well be natural to assume there are more than one Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres.

Another way of looking at it is this: Arceus can create life from nothing, as seen in the special HGSS Sinjoh Ruins event trigger, wherein Arceus creates an egg containing another Dialga, Palkia, or Giratina, thus adding one to the one already existing that appears in the DPPt story concurrently. Thus, it stands to reason that Arceus can create multiple of any species of Pokémon (other than itself), so it is actually plausible that there are multiple of every non-Arceus Pokémon.

Heh, fitting that your avi is of a legendary bird, just not one of the winged mirages.

 

in regards to what you were saying, that makes sense. There's no lore implying that there is only one, arceus can make life from nothing, and you even see them on greevil's team in XD and on Brandon's team in the Gold Symbol challenge. 

The egg thing does make me wonder why they don't have genders though... 

[Fryer]

I always took it as there existing multiple specimens of the "minor" legendary Pokemon such as birds, beasts, Manaphy, etc. The "major" ones such as the boxart legendaries only were one of the kind, though from what we've seen in HG/SS, Arceus can create new legendaries. Since we don't know much about Ultra Space, I am gonna assume that there are other Cosmogs allowing multiple Solgaleo and Lunala to exist.

[henrymidfields]

I pretty much agree with @Fryer here. And considering how they are generic, I consider them to be universal legendaries that can be seen anywhere. It is just that they are very rare.

So what do I consider as Kanto's Legendaries? Ho-Oh, Lugia, Entei, Suicune, and Raikou would be the actual regional legendaries for Central Poke-Japan (Kanto and Johto).

[JHufself]

On 8/2/2017 at 9:44 PM, DisobeyedCargo said:

Heh, fitting that your avi is of a legendary bird, just not one of the winged mirages.

 

in regards to what you were saying, that makes sense. There's no lore implying that there is only one, arceus can make life from nothing, and you even see them on greevil's team in XD and on Brandon's team in the Gold Symbol challenge. 

The egg thing does make me wonder why they don't have genders though... 

Well, I think it's important to note that although some Pokémon are indeed "genderless" (i.e., robots like Metagross, Porygon, etc.), the actual terminology is "gender unknown" at least in generation 2. So they probably do have biological genders, but haven't been observed enough by Pokéscientists (or whatever equivalent profession) to have known genders.

Although, it is interesting that Cresselia is always known to be female while Darkrai, its Mythical counterpart is gender unknown. It was also stated somewhere (maybe a game dev? I don't completely recall) that Reshiram was designed to be more feminine while Zekrom was designed to be more masculine, yet both are gender unknown. It's a mystery as to why they don't let these legendary Pokémon have designated genders, since it's actually a competitive advantage to be gender unknown - you won't be affected by Captivate or Attract.

[Interdimensional Observer]

15 minutes ago, JHufself said:

Although, it is interesting that Cresselia is always known to be female while Darkrai, its Mythical counterpart is gender unknown. It was also stated somewhere (maybe a game dev? I don't completely recall) that Reshiram was designed to be more feminine while Zekrom was designed to be more masculine, yet both are gender unknown. It's a mystery as to why they don't let these legendary Pokémon have designated genders, since it's actually a competitive advantage to be gender unknown - you won't be affected by Captivate or Attract.

How does one have the designations "male" and "female" without sexual reproduction? For normal Pokemon species like Miltank it works because you can breed them with Pokes of the other sex from other species. But how can one call Cresselia female if it can't breed with anyone?

As for Captivate and Attract- does anyone actually ever use those knowing their limitations?

On 8/2/2017 at 8:53 PM, Nym said:

Well there's 2 Mewtwo

Mewtwo is a genetically modified clone- it's a bit surprising there are so few.

Reminds me of my Pokemon Kanto-Johto Sagas fanfict where Giovanni's ultimate goal is to free Mewtwo from cryostasis to steal its DNA to produce an army of mass-production Mewtwo clones that he can actually control with ease.

23 minutes ago, JHufself said:

Well, I think it's important to note that although some Pokémon are indeed "genderless" (i.e., robots like Metagross, Porygon, etc.), the actual terminology is "gender unknown" at least in generation 2.

A Metagross is made from two Metangs, which are made from two Beldums, but I don't think that there has to be sexes for this group. Bacteria and the ilk lack sexes but can reproduce no problem, and earthworms and some sea slugs are hermaphrodites. Metagross might just be one of these two things.

[JHufself]

22 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

How does one have the designations "male" and "female" without sexual reproduction? For normal Pokemon species like Miltank it works because you can breed them with Pokes of the other sex from other species. But how can one call Cresselia female if it can't breed with anyone?

There are a couple of cases in Pokémon where the species has a gender, but can't breed period, even with Ditto. These are Nidorina, Nidoqueen, Cresselia, Heatran, Tornadus, Thundurus, Landorus, Latias, Latios, and any baby-stage Pokémon like Pichu or Mantyke. Except for babies and Nidoqueen/Nidorina, which I guess are biologically female but for some reason or another simply can't breed under the game's code and programming, it's a matter of assignment really - probably something similar as to why some people refer to their vehicles with female pronouns.

22 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

As for Captivate and Attract- does anyone actually ever use those knowing their limitations?

If anyone seriously considered using them for competition, I'm sure they do. They're theoretically useful for Kangaskhan, who is always female, or Landorus-Therian and Thundurus, who are always male. Because of these limitations though, they see very little use as Zapdos and other gender unknown Pokémon are quite popular for their battle prowess.

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by JHufself

[Tamanoir]

Isn't it actually more or less admitted than there's more than one Heatran. The fact they can be both gender seems to indicate it at least.

[DisobeyedCargo]

23 minutes ago, Tamanoir said:

Isn't it actually more or less admitted than there's more than one Heatran. The fact they can be both gender seems to indicate it at least.

You are correct on that. There are more than one heatran.

 

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

On 8/5/2017 at 2:57 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

How does one have the designations "male" and "female" without sexual reproduction? For normal Pokemon species like Miltank it works because you can breed them with Pokes of the other sex from other species. But how can one call Cresselia female if it can't breed with anyone?

As for Captivate and Attract- does anyone actually ever use those knowing their limitations?

Captivate and Attract is one of those things you'd think people never use then sometimes you meet someone bullshiting you with it and immediately make your entire party female except Greninja. At least on singles PS, theres used to be a somewhat semi-popular Baton Pass Team with Sub Protect Baton Pass Attract Female Scolipede

 

Because Female Greninja is a bad idea(the only possible Ash Greninja is Male, so if your Greninja is Female, they know its either vanilla Gren or protean Gren)

[Tamanoir]

4 hours ago, JSND said:

Because Female Greninja is a bad idea(the only possible Ash Greninja is Male, so if your Greninja is Female, they know its either vanilla Gren or protean Gren)

Seeing all the people using Shiny Gren, I don't think it would be as much of an issue for most.