Cipher Livestream in 5 minutes; Warriors will be showcased [Over]

[The DanMan]

26 minutes ago, Namarid said:

Unfortunately Sakura looks to be a straight clone of Takumi. I'm assuming that all clones are going to be treated similarly. 

I guess we know what the developers were talking about when they said similar characters have different standing animations. The idle animations of Takumi and Sakura are different.

They're the worst (most similar) example we have. Chrom and Lucina, the Twins, Leo and Elise (as far as we've seen), and the PKs all have their share of differences beyond their normal attack string. Sakura's the exception, and even then she has a few different charge attacks.

[Timeman]

This Validar presentation makes me believe stronger on playable villains.

 

Edited September 16, 2017 by Timeman

[Namarid]

9 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

They're the worst (most similar) example we have. Chrom and Lucina, the Twins, Leo and Elise (as far as we've seen), and the PKs all have their share of differences beyond their normal attack string. Sakura's the exception, and even then she has a few different charge attacks.

No they don't. The only differences moveset wise between the clones that is a certainty are the musous.

Chrom and Lucina are the same.

The twins are the same.

Not completely sure on the PKs since Cordelia's footage wasn't the clearest but they're most likely the same.

Leo and Elise are most likely the same because of the fact that Sakura and Takumi are the same. The fact that Sakura has the same wind charge attack as Takumi despite (I'm assuming) being a light element user speaks volumes about how they're doing clone characters. The fire attack and wind attack that Leo uses in the Nohr trailer we can expect Elise to use as well.

[The DanMan]

Just now, Namarid said:

No they don't. The only differences moveset wise between the clones that is a certainty are the musous.

Chrom and Lucina are the same.

The twins are the same.

Not completely sure on the PKs since Cordelia's footage wasn't the clearest but they're most likely the same.

Leo and Elise are most likely the same because of the fact that Sakura and Takumi are the same. The fact that Sakura has the same wind charge attack as Takumi despite (I'm assuming) being a light element user speaks volumes about how they're doing clone characters. The fire attack and wind attack that Leo uses in the Nohr trailer we can expect Elise to use as well.

Chrom and Lucina have different charge attacks; the twins first few normals and charges are the same, but both branch out. We haven't seen Cordelia extensively, but basic reasoning would suggest differences as well (unless Hinoka got the short end of the stick like Sakura). They have highlighed differences between Leo and Elise. Sakura, meanwhile, has looked incredibly similar to Takumi in every instance shown. She's the exception, not the rule.

The fact you said Chrom/Lucina and the Twins are pure clones despite us knowing otherwise for months makes it hard to take you seriously.

[Thane]

If Sakura's moveset is similar to Takumi's, I hope they bring that up in a support between them. That has the potential for adorableness.

[Namarid]

23 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Chrom and Lucina have different charge attacks; the twins first few normals and charges are the same, but both branch out. We haven't seen Cordelia extensively, but basic reasoning would suggest differences as well (unless Hinoka got the short end of the stick like Sakura). They have highlighed differences between Leo and Elise. Sakura, meanwhile, has looked incredibly similar to Takumi in every instance shown. She's the exception, not the rule.

The fact you said Chrom/Lucina and the Twins are pure clones despite us knowing otherwise for months makes it hard to take you seriously.

I would love to see what gameplay you've been watching because any person who's watched all the gameplay there is to be seen would know that Chrom and Lucina are clones. The twins gameplay from the demo's was also the same, however the stream gameplay has Lianna do some things that even I can't explain but we'll learn more once we have the game. So taking this into account the only way you can say what you're saying is if you have some special version of the game already or you don't understand what you're watching. It's most likely the latter.

They haven't highlighted any difference between Leo and Elise because we've only seen one combo from Elise while with Leo with seen his wind charge and fire charge. Those two attacks from Leo stem from the same basic string that Elise also uses. Since Takumi and Sakura both have the same string but also use the same charge attacks it is logical to assume the same thing with Leo and Elise. 

Now since we've established that the clones discussed so far are practically the same basic reasoning would suggest that the PKs follow this trend. 

I would implore you to go and watch all the videos again before, as I've done plenty of times, before you start making false claims.

[The DanMan]

4 minutes ago, Namarid said:

I would implore you to go and watch all the videos again before, as I've done plenty of times, before you start making false claims

I have.

It's become clear that it's pointless to argue with you; the closest we have to a pure clone is Sakura. Chrom and Lucina along with the Twins have as many differences as similarities. We have seen different charge attacks on both Cordelia and Hinoka; the same deal with Leo and Elise.

Making a baseless inference that's already been disproven only to then accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about has killed this conversation.

[Nanima]

12 minutes ago, Thane said:

If Sakura's moveset is similar to Takumi's, I hope they bring that up in a support between them. That has the potential for adorableness.

If Chrom already taught Lucina, so Takumi having been Sakura's teacher is the only logical answer. Still, even if they lampshade it in the support, it won't make up for being this similar. Most people wouldn't even see the support, since using two almost identical archers is something only their fans are likely to do.

If KT already has trouble diversifying two archers (the only ones we have seen so far, unless Gordin, Jeorge or Virion make a surprise appearance), I am pretty disappointed. Semi-clones I can accept, but you'd think they'd try for more uniqueness when this is the game that's supposed to establish a series.

[The DanMan]

1 minute ago, Nanima said:

If KT already has trouble diversifying two archers (the only ones we have seen so far, unless Gordin, Jeorge or Virion make a surprise appearance), I am pretty disappointed. Semi-clones I can accept, but you'd think they'd try for more uniqueness when this is the game that's supposed to establish a series.

It's more likely that Sakura simply had less priority; DW has three different archers that all play differently, for instance. If we get another archer, they'll have more differences than Sakura.

[Thane]

1 minute ago, Nanima said:

If Chrom already taught Lucina, so Takumi having been Sakura's teacher is the only logical answer. Still, even if they lampshade it in the support, it won't make up for being this similar. Most people wouldn't even see the support, since using two almost identical archers is something only their fans are likely to do.

If KT already has trouble diversifying two archers (the only ones we have seen so far, unless Gordin, Jeorge or Virion make a surprise appearance), I am pretty disappointed. Semi-clones I can accept, but you'd think they'd try for more uniqueness when this is the game that's supposed to establish a series.

I'll reserve my judgement until I play the game for myself. I'm generally easier to please on the gameplay front, so a cute support explaining some similarities would probably make that fine by me. That's not a get out of jail free card, mind you, just speaking in general terms. 

[Nanima]

9 minutes ago, Thane said:

I'll reserve my judgement until I play the game for myself. I'm generally easier to please on the gameplay front, so a cute support explaining some similarities would probably make that fine by me. That's not a get out of jail free card, mind you, just speaking in general terms. 

That's fine, I mean with only one charge attack displayed, we still don't know for sure if Elise is less of a clone than Sakura. If she is the same, I will still be disappointed at the wasted opportunity here, but at least it won't feel like yet another fuck you to Hoshido fans. That's what's making me so bitter here.

In any case, Sakura deserved better.

[Namarid]

8 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

I have.

It's become clear that it's pointless to argue with you; the closest we have to a pure clone is Sakura. Chrom and Lucina along with the Twins have as many differences as similarities. We have seen different charge attacks on both Cordelia and Hinoka; the same deal with Leo and Elise.

Making a baseless inference that's already been disproven only to then accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about has killed this conversation.

Chrom and Lucina.

Twins.

Feel free to tell me the differences, I will apologize and admit I was wrong.

[Thane]

5 minutes ago, Nanima said:

In any case, Sakura deserved better.

Let's hope there's enough to differentiate them! Also, while my expectations for the supports are low, if Sakura gets a few good ones, then I won't mind gameplay similarities. She and Takumi look fun and the visuals seem different, so I'll live. 

The better imouto may be salvaged yet!

[NeonZ]

 

17 minutes ago, Nanima said:

That's fine, I mean with only one charge attack displayed, we still don't know for sure if Elise is less of a clone than Sakura. If she is the same, I will still be disappointed at the wasted opportunity here, but at least it won't feel like yet another fuck you to Hoshido fans. That's what's making me so bitter here.

In any case, Sakura deserved better.

The only reason Sakura (and Hinoka) are even in the game is due to the "4 royals" mirror set up though. Going by either the Heroes poll or the Japanese Fates one you'd get Azura and Oboro or Felicia before them. So, it's not that surprising if they're low priority characters.

 

13 minutes ago, Namarid said:

Chrom and Lucina.

Twins.

Feel free to tell me the differences, I will apologize and admit I was wrong.

Huh. I hadn't looked at them that closely before. They're closer than I thought from watching them individually. They have different effects for the attacks, and some attacks have different animations, but are still very similar (Chrom has a wannabe PoR Aether, and Lucina has a very similar attack, but falls in a different pose, although the actual effect of both attacks seems to be the same).

Still, we know Lucina has some attack with a bow that wasn't shown there.

Edited September 16, 2017 by NeonZ

[Nanima]

7 minutes ago, Thane said:

Let's hope there's enough to differentiate them! Also, while my expectations for the supports are low, if Sakura gets a few good ones, then I won't mind gameplay similarities. She and Takumi look fun and the visuals seem different, so I'll live. 

The better imouto may be salvaged yet!

We have already seen most of their gameplay though.. I want to stay hopeful, but I can already see people dismissing Sakura, because they can just use Takumi or vise versa. I guess I am just sad not to see her priestess style.

1 minute ago, NeonZ said:

The only reason Sakura (and Hinoka) are even in the game is due to the "4 royals" mirror set up though. Going by either the Heroes poll or the Japanese Fates one you'd get Azura and Oboro or Felicia before them.

You could say the same for Elise and Xander concerning the Heroes poll. I'll give you the Fates one but they weren't too far behind. But also, what are you trying to say here? That I should be thankful they are even in the game? Maybe, but when you go with "4 royals mirror", you are also setting yourself up for giving them equal treatment. Are you saying they randomly did shittier work for the Hoshidan siblings just because they are less popular, so they didn't think people would even care? That's not a good argument in their favour.

[Thane]

1 minute ago, Nanima said:

We have already seen most of their gameplay though.. I want to stay hopeful, but I can already see people dismissing Sakura, because they can just use Takumi or vise versa. I guess I am just sad not to see her priestess style.

Maybe we'll be able to upgrade combos like in Hyrule Warriors though? 

[NeonZ]

9 minutes ago, Nanima said:

You could say the same for Elise and Xander concerning the Heroes poll. I'll give you the Fates one but they weren't too far behind. But also, what are you trying to say here? That I should be thankful they are even in the game? Maybe, but when you go with "4 royals mirror", you are also setting yourself up for giving them equal treatment. Are you saying they randomly did shittier work for the Hoshidan siblings just because they are less popular, so they didn't think people would even care? That's not a good argument in their favour.

That's pretty much what seems to be going on at this point, especially looking at Lucina compared to Sakura (For example, even when both Lucina and Chrom do an upwards thrust with the same motion, one uses flame effects while the other has blue electricity, but then Sakura is straight up reusing wind attack effects from Takumi). At this point, it just seems like those two characters were low priority. I'm not saying you should be thankful, just that it just seems to be what they've done.

Edited September 16, 2017 by NeonZ

[Zapp Branniglenn]

2 hours ago, Namarid said:

 

...uhm, guys? Can you all quit arguing over how much you like Lucina and check out 6:26 of this video? I can't be the only one that noticed that glitch. The pair up attack didn't remove the original Lissa from play.

[Namarid]

11 minutes ago, NeonZ said:

That's pretty much what seems to be going on at this point, especially looking at Lucina compared to Sakura (For example, even when both Lucina and Chrom do an upwards thrust with the same motion, one uses flame effects while the other has blue electricity, but then Sakura is straight up reusing wind attack effects from Takumi). At this point, it just seems like those two characters were low priority. I'm not saying you should be thankful, just that it just seems to be what they've done.

I'm assuming your talking about the c1. They have the same effect.

 

3 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

...uhm, guys? Can you all quit arguing over how much you like Lucina and check out 6:26 of this video? I can't be the only one that noticed that glitch. The pair up attack didn't remove the original Lissa from play.

I noticed it, I thought it was just a second Lissa on the map.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

10 minutes ago, Namarid said:

I'm assuming your talking about the c1. They have the same effect.

 

I noticed it, I thought it was just a second Lissa on the map.

Ohhh yeah now I see it, that's green unit Lissa who was there when they picked up ally Lissa. I guess the better question is:

Why are there duplicates of our playable characters as ally captains?

Edited September 16, 2017 by Glennstavos

[Folt]

3 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Ohhh yeah now I see it, that's green unit Lissa who was there when they picked up ally Lissa. I guess the better question is:

Why are their duplicates of our playable characters as ally captains?

Likely because this is History Mode instead of an actual Story Mode scenario.

[NeonZ]

10 minutes ago, Namarid said:

I'm assuming your talking about the c1. They have the same effect.

 

Hm... looking at more videos, I've found Chrom doing the same upwards slash with a blue trail that Lucina did. I can't find a video of Lucina doing the flaming one though. I won't bother posting screens here because I'm looking at youtube videos though, rather than downloads and single screenshots ended up really blurry. I guess it's hard to say what are exclusive attacks without even knowing their full moveset inputs.

3 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Ohhh yeah now I see it, that's green unit Lissa who was there when they picked up ally Lissa. I guess the better question is:

Why are their duplicates of our playable characters as ally captains?

That's probably not story mode, considering Robin fighting for Validar. There was presumably a preset team on the map already and the player's team is just added there, even if it results in duplicates.

[Namarid]

2 minutes ago, NeonZ said:

Hm... looking at more videos, I've found Chrom doing the same upwards slash with a blue trail that Lucina did. I can't find a video of Lucina doing the flaming one though. I won't bother posting screens here because I'm looking at youtube videos though, rather than downloads and single screenshots ended up really blurry. I guess it's hard to say what are exclusive attacks without even knowing their full moveset inputs.

The replication doesn't end there. The aether move you mentioned,the lunging stab, the overhead spinning slice, the short combo string. All are the same between the two.

[Arthur97]

2 minutes ago, Namarid said:

The replication doesn't end there. The aether move you mentioned,the lunging stab, the overhead spinning slice, the short combo string. All are the same between the two.

I'm almost certain they do Aether differently.

[Namarid]

5 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I'm almost certain they do Aether differently.

They throw the sword in the air, catch it, go into the same pose that chrom does on the awakening boxart and plunge down at a diagonal angle. It's the same move.