Gatrie, Brom, or Tauroneo

[YokaiKnight]

Gatrie and Brom are both tanks.

4372583624589 durability + actual AS >>>>> 4372583624589 durability

Talk about overblown. 10 SPD at 20/0, 13 at 20/5, 16.7 @ 20/20 is not a huge advantage over 7.8 at 20/0, 10.8 @ 20/5, and 14.5 @ 20/20. 2 AS is negligible when neither is close to 20.

The only really noteworthy differences between the two in my eyes are availability, joining situation and supports (if you bother to support). They're both still generals without Resolve.

[Freohr Datia]

I like Gatrie out of the three! He's a funny guy and he is pretty useful. Even though I don't use these very much, Gatrie helps me a great deal in the beginning. Also if you want to train someone, Gatrie sometimes is great as a weakener and almost killer.

[Reikken]

Talk about overblown. 10 SPD at 20/0, 13 at 20/5, 16.7 @ 20/20 is not a huge advantage over 7.8 at 20/0, 10.8 @ 20/5, and 14.5 @ 20/20. 2 AS is negligible when neither is close to 20.

The only really noteworthy differences between the two in my eyes are availability, joining situation and supports (if you bother to support). They're both still generals without Resolve.

The Knight Ward gives +30 spd growth when equipped. Brom can cap spd. He also has an additional +0.90 spd on fixed mode (http://serenesforest.net/fe9/base_exp.htm), making the AS difference a solid 3. Occasionally 4.

Edited November 4, 2008 by Reikken

[YokaiKnight]

The Knight Ward gives +30 spd growth when equipped. Brom can cap spd. He also has an additional +0.90 spd on fixed mode (http://serenesforest.net/fe9/base_exp.htm), making the AS difference a solid 3. Occasionally 4.

True, but I wasn't talking fixed. Gatrie still only loses 2 (or 3) SPD with the Knight Ward, especially since it's not available until he is and so Brom doesn't get extra time to use it.

Point still stands that fail speed is fail for both Generals. Brom's faster and it makes a difference against certain enemies, but his AS advantage isn't on the scale of ">>>," even on fixed. If both Generals were faster, it might matter more because Brom could be over the "line" of doubling most enemies while Gatrie's under it. But they're not.

Edited November 4, 2008 by YokaiKnight

[Tino]

True, but I wasn't talking fixed. Gatrie still only loses 2 (or 3) SPD with the Knight Ward, especially since it's not available until he is and so Brom doesn't get extra time to use it.

Point still stands that fail speed is fail for both Generals. Brom's faster and it makes a difference against certain enemies, but his AS advantage isn't on the scale of ">>>," even on fixed. If both Generals were faster, it might matter more because Brom could be over the "line" of doubling most enemies while Gatrie's under it. But they're not.

Yes, it is. Even though Gatrie is only 3 AS behind Brom, he doesn't have enough AS to actually double frequently, whereas Brom does.

[YokaiKnight]

Yes, it is. Even though Gatrie is only 3 AS behind Brom, he doesn't have enough AS to actually double frequently, whereas Brom does.

No he doesn't. Low-teens speed throughout the 20-something chapters is keeping equal with most enemies, doubling unpromoted units & Generals, some Sages, weighed down enemies, etc.

[Liz]

Gatrie is more aesthetically pleasing, but i can't help but love Brom for some reason.

he is just scrumptious!

[Florete]

Brom looks like a monkey, and he's from the country. That rhymes, so he gets my vote.

[Tino]

No he doesn't. Low-teens speed throughout the 20-something chapters is keeping equal with most enemies, doubling unpromoted units & Generals, some Sages, weighed down enemies, etc.

Low teens? So you mean, 12 AS or something.

19 Archer: 13 AS

18 Bandit: 13 AS

20 Fighter: 12 AS

20 Knight: 6 AS

20 Mage: 14 AS

20 Myrmidon: 18 AS

16 Priest: 9 AS

20 Soldier: 12 AS

9 Thief: 14 AS

20 Weapon Knight: 15 AS

20 Wyvern Rider: 11 AS

All he doubles are Knights... He can't double anything but Generals outside of them. And those are just unpromoted enemies. Promoted ones will more frequently double him.

[Reikken]

True, but I wasn't talking fixed. Gatrie still only loses 2 (or 3) SPD with the Knight Ward, especially since it's not available until he is and so Brom doesn't get extra time to use it.

Point still stands that fail speed is fail for both Generals. Brom's faster and it makes a difference against certain enemies, but his AS advantage isn't on the scale of ">>>," even on fixed. If both Generals were faster, it might matter more because Brom could be over the "line" of doubling most enemies while Gatrie's under it. But they're not.

Brom does indeed get fast enough to double attack lots of things. His spd is still terrible before promotion, but after it, assuming Knight Ward use for most of his levels, his spd starts to get pretty good. 55% spd growth is rather nice. A 20/5 Brom with Knight Ward from lv 10 on has 17.2 spd, 18 on fixed mode. A 20/5 Boyd averages 16.9 spd. Granted, Boyd's level is a bit higher than Brom's, but still, that's not bad spd at all.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Reikken

[Mekkah]

Which is what I've been saying in the Lyn vs. Guy debate. =\

No, all you're saying is "their not ber much difference and you guys assume lots of thingS!". Meanwhile, Guy beats Lyn in _every parameter_. That does not apply to Gatrie/Brom.

[sandmanccl]

Whatever, Mekkah. You're stuck in your ways so I'm not even going to bother replying to you anymore.

On topic:

Honestly, there's not much difference between Brom and Gatrie. Next to none, in fact. As YokaiKnight said, fail speed is still fail. Even if you run into a situation one is getting double attacked over the either, both have high enough defense that any units likely to do that won't hurt them a pip of health so it doesn't tend to matter.

[bunny: spider bitten]

Brom should have a superior level to Gatrie when you get Gatrie back, for what that is worth.

[Tino]

Whatever, Mekkah. You're stuck in your ways so I'm not even going to bother replying to you anymore.

On topic:

Honestly, there's not much difference between Brom and Gatrie. Next to none, in fact. As YokaiKnight said, fail speed is still fail. Even if you run into a situation one is getting double attacked over the either, both have high enough defense that any units likely to do that won't hurt them a pip of health so it doesn't tend to matter.

KW Brom can double reliably. Gatrie never can. Brom >>>>>>> Gatrie because of this, since it gives him actul offense, which Gatrie will never have.

[Mekkah]

Whatever, Mekkah. You're stuck in your ways so I'm not even going to bother replying to you anymore.

You seem more "stuck" than I am then.

[Judge Judy]

LOL!!!!!!!

I LOVE THAT RESPONSE!

[Wist]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and arguments, I request that dissenting sides be careful not to use or coax any personal confrontations in the thread.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Wist

[Hibari]

I'd have to say Gatrie's my favorite only because I like those hopeless romantic types (ex. Sanji, Sain, TLS).

[Thingy Person]

I'd have to say Gatrie's my favorite only because I like those hopeless romantic types (ex. Sanji, Sain, TLS).

TLS? Romatic? As in, that guy who wishes for threesomes with fictional characters when he goes to bed? Don't make me laugh :P

Also, Sandmanccl has high offense but he isn't very reliable. Tino is a much better meatshield, as is expected of a general, but don't expect him to kill much. My favourite gentleman would have to be Bastian.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Thingy Person

[Hibari]

TLS? Romatic? As in, that guy who wishes for threesomes with fictional characters when he goes to bed? Don't make me laugh :P

Also, Sandmanccl has high offense but he isn't very reliable. Tino is a much better meatshield, as is expected of a general, but don't expect him to kill much. My favourite gentleman would have to be Bastian.

That was really meant more as a joke but...

[YokaiKnight]

For the record, I'm not going to really (or reliably) debate anything on fixed mode--I know the theory of how it works (and for some, why it's better) and all, but I'm currently doing my first playthrough on it and am not up to looking up fixed mode growth point bases & shit. sry gaiz

Low teens? So you mean, 12 AS or something.

19 Archer: 13 AS

18 Bandit: 13 AS

20 Fighter: 12 AS

20 Knight: 6 AS

20 Mage: 14 AS

20 Myrmidon: 18 AS

16 Priest: 9 AS

20 Soldier: 12 AS

9 Thief: 14 AS

20 Weapon Knight: 15 AS

20 Wyvern Rider: 11 AS

All he doubles are Knights... He can't double anything but Generals outside of them. And those are just unpromoted enemies. Promoted ones will more frequently double him.

So this is when Gatrie has 12 SPD, I'm assuming? That's level 10 promoted. At the same level, Brom's got a whopping 14.2. This gives him the advantage of doubling Priests and, if he's at 15, Wyvern Riders. hardly anything worth mentioning. also, both can probably a) double more of the units you mentioned due to occasional heavy weaponry, and B) both probably will actually be doubling even less because you're going to be approaching endgame by the time they're 20/10, unless you're pouring bonus EXP on one or the other. It's still a moot point: like I said, both of them fail at doubling without the Knight Ward, and there is no significant, play-changing difference in their speed.

Brom does indeed get fast enough to double attack lots of things. His spd is still terrible before promotion, but after it, assuming Knight Ward use for most of his levels, his spd starts to get pretty good. 55% spd growth is rather nice. A 20/5 Brom with Knight Ward from lv 10 on has 17.2 spd, 18 on fixed mode. A 20/5 Boyd averages 16.9 spd. Granted, Boyd's level is a bit higher than Brom's, but still, that's not bad spd at all.

Assuming Gatrie gets it level 13, he's down 3 SPD (.9 from 3 extra Brom levels, two naturally). That puts him at 14(.3?) at 20/5. If 20/5 is seen as a late teens/early twenty chapter point, Brom may be doubling level 1 Snipers and Mages over things they both double. With heavy weapons, they're both doubling early promotes. Neither is dying and both are doing pretty decent jobs of killing, much better with custom weapons/skills. tl;dr they're both fine. Assuming 20/5 as a mid-twenty chapter level, they're both about even with many enemies and not doubling frequently. tl;dr they're both slow. Both conclusions put them at about the same efficiency. I'm still only arguing that Gatrie's AS does not put him at a significant disadvantage to Brom.

[Reikken]

about ch 18-21, yeah

On random mode, a 20/5 Brom's chance of having enough spd to double something with, say 11 spd, like a 19-20 Fighter, is about 94%. Gatrie's, on the other hand, is about 54% (and this is assuming Gatrie also gets the KW from lv 10 rather than lv 13). Brom's chance of having enough spd to double something with ~14 spd, like a lower leveled paladin or a 18-20 lance/axe/sword/bow knight is about 37% while Gatrie's is about 6%.

Soldiers and halberdiers of the same levels run in the 11-13 range. Mage/sages and archer/snipers run about 13 spd.

Brom's chance of having enough spd to double a 13-ASer is about 60%, while Gatrie's is about 15%. (info from http://fea.fewiki.net/ ... like this)

This is a rather substantial difference. Don't try to say the spd difference doesn't matter. It very much does.

And on fixed mode, the difference is even bigger. Brom's 18 spd doubles all those 14-12 spd doods with more or less a 100% chance, while Gatrie has a 0% chance to double any of them and may not even double the 11 spd ones (borderline 14-15 spd, and equipped weapons affect growths as well; like steel lances and javelins, for example, both reduce spd growth by 5)

Edited November 6, 2008 by Reikken

[YokaiKnight]

Fair enough.

[Wisper]

Brom is the best. He has actual AS and supports, while Gatrie is too slow and Tauroneo joins too late.

Truth.