Risk of overpopulation on the Bionis? (Xenoblade Chronicles)

[Dragoncat]

Got this game for Christmas, enjoying it, have some musings and kinda theories. I just recently reached Gaur Plains, so please, no spoilers in your response!

So we know that the world is two titans that fought each other at the beginning of time, people live on the corpse of the Bionis, and the Mechonis appears inhabitable. But since you can see the shape of the Bionis if you go to certain spots, it can't be big enough to support a human population as big as Earth's. If the population growth happens like it does on Earth, it would eventually be too crowded and natural resources would suffer.

It's possible that human reproduction doesn't happen as quickly as on Earth, like women ovulate once every two months instead of every single month. Yes, fellow ladies, that would mean periods every other month, instead of every month, that would be a plus xD Maybe sperm production in men is also slower? Idk how fast that happens irl, but I do know if the sperm aren't used, they reabsorb and the DNA in them is recycled into new sperm. So yeah, if a couple is trying for a kid, they'd have to have more patience than couples irl. Fertility treatments could exist to speed things up if they just can't wait very long.

If the Bionis gets overpopulated there's also the option to try to inhabit the Mechonis, invade it, get rid of all the mechon, try to survive there. Or just look for land in the vast ocean that the titans stand in.

Thoughts?

[DisobeyedCargo]

Simply looking at the amount of named NPC's in the game, they are nowhere near overpopulation.

plus, there is a limited amount of ether on bionis, which the Homs need to survive, so if there were too many Homs, some would just die, releasing their ether back into the air. 

Plus the constant Mechon attacks a year ago wiping out all but 2 of the colonies helped put with that.

suprised im the first one here?

Edited January 3, 2018 by DisobeyedCargo

[Dragoncat]

Maybe not atm, but like, in the distant future, it might be a problem, IF the story of the Bionis and Mechonis didn't end when the game ends. I'm curious where they all go after that. I'll have to wait and see.

Also, wow, you really think people would just poof away into thin air? If it really is an ether thing, I'm more apt to believe it will just be impossible to conceive if it gets to that point, or the babies would die at birth or something. So either the presence of ether is directly tied to fertility or everyone gets some at birth and if they don't, they die.

[LucarioGamer812]

The way I know it being described Ether is lifeforce and energy both. There's always a set amount of it, with excess forming ether crystals. As Cargo said when people die their ether is put back into the cycle. With that limitation and the cycle happening, the population would balance out as otherwise there would not be any ether to support further life once it was used up.

Otherwise I think the homs are just like us humans except their corpses turn into ether. Also we may never know as the game ends when it ends and was never thought of.

[Armagon]

There was never really a risk of overpopulation on the Bionis because of the ether cycle mentioned above. There's also only like two Homs colonies left (maybe a third one if the unused Bionis' Left Shoulder area was any indication). There's plenty of space on Bionis, the issue is just the Mechon attacks, as well as the various different monsters. The safest place on Bionis would be the head, for reasons you'll find out later.

 

 

[DisobeyedCargo]

Also, let's keep in mind that Dunban, Reyn, and others constantly call Dickson flat out old, despite him only being 44, which is middle aged to us. This could hint at a much lower average life expectancy for the whole Homs population, which would help keep the population low. There are old people like Dionysis and Cheryl, but average life expectancy doesn't mean you will only live up to that age.

[Dragoncat]

48 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Also, let's keep in mind that Dunban, Reyn, and others constantly call Dickson flat out old, despite him only being 44, which is middle aged to us. This could hint at a much lower average life expectancy for the whole Homs population, which would help keep the population low. There are old people like Dionysis and Cheryl, but average life expectancy doesn't mean you will only live up to that age.

Wow, really? Only 44? I think Marcia was like 60 something...

That makes sense though, and now I'm wondering how long people are considered in their prime/when fertility starts to decline. Puberty should happen the same time for them as it does us. But even then, on Earth, most cultures consider 14 year olds children and frown upon children having children. Maybe it's a bit different for the Homs, and it's normal for 16 year olds to be having kids at the least?

Alternatively, Dickson could be called "old" just because he's older than Dunban/Reyn/etc. Like millennials irl giving baby boomers crap and calling them old. I mean he calls Shulk a "kid" if that's anything to go by, when he's in his late teens, looks like. That kind of thing is common. I've had older adults call me a kid. I'm 26.

I'm still thinking if there's not enough free ether, then there will be no more births even if people tried. Which sounds more plausable, ether being directly tied to fertility and preventing conception if there's not enough, or conception happening, but there being a stillbirth/miscarriage? If it works by preventing conception in the first place, not sure whether that would mean no ovulation or an extremely low sperm count or both. Maybe both? It could just happen in the area where there's an ether shortage. So everybody in their prime in an area with a significant ether shortage will have their fertility reduced a good amount.

[DisobeyedCargo]

58 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Wow, really? Only 44? I think Marcia was like 60 something...

That makes sense though, and now I'm wondering how long people are considered in their prime/when fertility starts to decline. Puberty should happen the same time for them as it does us. But even then, on Earth, most cultures consider 14 year olds children and frown upon children having children. Maybe it's a bit different for the Homs, and it's normal for 16 year olds to be having kids at the least?

Alternatively, Dickson could be called "old" just because he's older than Dunban/Reyn/etc. Like millennials irl giving baby boomers crap and calling them old. I mean he calls Shulk a "kid" if that's anything to go by, when he's in his late teens, looks like. That kind of thing is common. I've had older adults call me a kid. I'm 26.

I'm still thinking if there's not enough free ether, then there will be no more births even if people tried. Which sounds more plausable, ether being directly tied to fertility and preventing conception if there's not enough, or conception happening, but there being a stillbirth/miscarriage? If it works by preventing conception in the first place, not sure whether that would mean no ovulation or an extremely low sperm count or both. Maybe both? It could just happen in the area where there's an ether shortage. So everybody in their prime in an area with a significant ether shortage will have their fertility reduced a good amount.

Dunban is 30, and he's still calling Dickson old.

ether is needed for the Homs to live, without ether they wouldn't just stop giving birth, their whole bodies would likely shut down, think of it like a human not getting any sort of water.

Edited January 3, 2018 by DisobeyedCargo

[Dandy Druid]

4 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

It's possible that human reproduction doesn't happen as quickly as on Earth, like women ovulate once every two months instead of every single month. Yes, fellow ladies, that would mean periods every other month, instead of every month, that would be a plus xD Maybe sperm production in men is also slower? Idk how fast that happens irl, but I do know if the sperm aren't used, they reabsorb and the DNA in them is recycled into new sperm. So yeah, if a couple is trying for a kid, they'd have to have more patience than couples irl. Fertility treatments could exist to speed things up if they just can't wait very long.

IIRC, Sperm production starts to decrease around the age of 50, or something close to that. Men generally have 20 more years than women as the "window of opportunity" to reproduce. It's generally not recommended that they conceive when you're older though. A 40+ year old man is more likely to have a child born with Down Syndrome and other similar conditions. So they can conceive a lot longer, but it's better to do so while in you're prime. Sorry for all of the additional info, but I think it's interesting.

2 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Also, let's keep in mind that Dunban, Reyn, and others constantly call Dickson flat out old, despite him only being 44, which is middle aged to us. This could hint at a much lower average life expectancy for the whole Homs population, which would help keep the population low. There are old people like Dionysis and Cheryl, but average life expectancy doesn't mean you will only live up to that age.

Isn't that just a jest? A lot of people call their father their "old man" even if they're not even that old. It could be a term of endearment/tease.

[Rex Glacies]

One of the main conflicts of the game is basically the survival of the Homs in the onslaught of the Mechon. So, during the time of the game, the question is less "will the Homs overpopulate?" but rather "will the Homs go extinct?" Worrying about overpopulation would be rather trivial at the time of the game; when civilization itself is at risk, there are other things to worry about.

But for the sake of that question, I would assume Bionis could theoretically become overpopulated if Mechon weren't a threat and they were given enough time. But that's not to say that they couldn't move to Mechonis or try to leave Bionis in search of theoretical other worlds. Again though, that's assuming the merciless monsters weren't a problem.

I could go into more details but that could be spoiler territory.

[Dragoncat]

24 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

 

ether is needed for the Homs to live, without ether they wouldn't just stop giving birth, their whole bodies would likely shut down, think of it like a human not getting any sort of water.

Okay, I see. In that case if it's so required for life itself then yeah.

16 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

IIRC, Sperm production starts to decrease around the age of 50, or something close to that. Men generally have 20 more years than women as the "window of opportunity" to reproduce. It's generally not recommended that they conceive when you're older though. A 40+ year old man is more likely to have a child born with Down Syndrome and other similar conditions. So they can conceive a lot longer, but it's better to do so while in you're prime. Sorry for all of the additional info, but I think it's interesting.

 

I know all that, yeah. Men don't become completely sterile like women BUT the older they are, the more likely they won't produce healthy offspring like you said.

@Rex Glacies Yeah, the time we see ingame is pretty dangerous and extinction would be the bigger issue. I guess I'm thinking, a what if kind of thing.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Dragoncat

[DisobeyedCargo]

23 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

IIRC, Sperm production starts to decrease around the age of 50, or something close to that. Men generally have 20 more years than women as the "window of opportunity" to reproduce. It's generally not recommended that they conceive when you're older though. A 40+ year old man is more likely to have a child born with Down Syndrome and other similar conditions. So they can conceive a lot longer, but it's better to do so while in you're prime. Sorry for all of the additional info, but I think it's interesting.

Isn't that just a jest? A lot of people call their father their "old man" even if they're not even that old. It could be a term of endearment/tease.

 I could see it being a jest, but the amount of times they all called him old/ bag of bones made me think that they genuinely thought of him as old. 

I still would not be suprised if life expectancy was lower though due to Mechon, monsters, etc...

[Dandy Druid]

1 minute ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

 I could see it being a jest, but the amount of times they all called him old/ bag of bones made me think that they genuinely thought of him as old. 

I still would not be suprised if life expectancy was lower though due to Mechon, monsters, etc...

Ehhh it could be a running gag. Ever have friends call you an insulting nickname a lot? It could be like that. Not malicious- he's just the oldest in the group so it's easy pickings. I don't doubt a low life expectancy though. Bionis sounds like a rough place to live in.

[Jotari]

There's actually a pretty rational explanation in game, but it goes into pretty deep spoiler territory.

Spoiler

There's been a regular, divine ordained, mass extinction event happening throughout history. Since it's done for the purpose of consuming ether, the number of creatures alive is probably what sets it off (under regular circumstances). It has stopped by the time of the game, but then you have the mechon curbing populations (the High Entia don't fight the mechon but they have extremly long life spans and ugeneics plans).

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Jotari

[TheGoodHoms]

Personally I think that there's a lot of places on Bionis that we never get to see in the game so I don't think that the issue of over population wouldn't actually happen as fast as you might be envisioning. Heck there was an area within the game set on the Bionis's shoulder that was ultimately cut from the final product, so it's safe to say there could at least be a decent amount of land that the Homs could spread out and colonize over that we simply never got to see.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, TheGoodHoms said:

Personally I think that there's a lot of places on Bionis that we never get to see in the game so I don't think that the issue of over population wouldn't actually happen as fast as you might be envisioning. Heck there was an area within the game set on the Bionis's shoulder that was ultimately cut from the final product, so it's safe to say there could at least be a decent amount of land that the Homs could spread out and colonize over that we simply never got to see.

There's a lot of places we don't visit, but we do get a sense of scale for the world. And compared to a planet, it's super tiny.

[Magical CC]

They can always build spaceship, invade another planet, suck out its resources and transform the natives to...wait, wrong story lol.

[Dragoncat]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

There's a lot of places we don't visit, but we do get a sense of scale for the world. And compared to a planet, it's super tiny.

This. Which is why if, hypothetically, there ever came a time of peace and not as much danger, the Homs might reproduce themselves to their own demise if the Bionis is really the only inhabitable piece of land that exists. Even if ether is such an important thing for life that people just die if there's not enough. Eventually they'd get tired of having X amount of generations thriving, then one generation suffers, dies, and doesn't reproduce, and then when enough ether goes back into the atmosphere the cycle begins again. They'd definitely want to try to find more land, but...could they survive in an area without ether? Could they evolve to not need it?

30 minutes ago, Magical CC said:

They can always build spaceship, invade another planet, suck out its resources and transform the natives to...wait, wrong story lol.

Lol this is what I was thinking if they tried to inhabit the Mechonis. Enslave the mechon! Make them into proper, obedient robots instead of nasty, blood thirsty ones that think they're flesh and blood carnivores. It'd be difficult, but maybe the Monado can do something to help with that. I was also thinking mechon/homs hybrids that are your typical cyborg. Half mechanical, half biological. Not because of people having sex with mechon, god no, that's probably not even possible. But because of some people figuring out it's easier to survive on the Mechonis if they transmute themselves to have mechon features, and can probably still reproduce normally. Babies born with metal the thickness and sharpness of aluminum foil some places on their body, later the metal toughens and allows the control of electricity, stuff like that. The more mechon is in them, the more mechanical they'll be. If only one parent is a cyborg then they have half the mechon features that they'd have if both parents are. And then the cyborgs start to think they're superior...and there's a war...

Wow, I just wrote a pitch for a kickass AU/sequel. I hate it when I come up with fangame ideas that will never be because I can't program. And also because of a possible cease and desist letter. RIP Pokemon Uranium.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Dragoncat

[Jotari]

18 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

This. Which is why if, hypothetically, there ever came a time of peace and not as much danger, the Homs might reproduce themselves to their own demise if the Bionis is really the only inhabitable piece of land that exists. Even if ether is such an important thing for life that people just die if there's not enough. Eventually they'd get tired of having X amount of generations thriving, then one generation suffers, dies, and doesn't reproduce, and then when enough ether goes back into the atmosphere the cycle begins again. They'd definitely want to try to find more land, but...could they survive in an area without ether? Could they evolve to not need it?

Lol this is what I was thinking if they tried to inhabit the Mechonis. Enslave the mechon! Make them into proper, obedient robots instead of nasty, blood thirsty ones that think they're flesh and blood carnivores. It'd be difficult, but maybe the Monado can do something to help with that. I was also thinking mechon/homs hybrids that are your typical cyborg. Half mechanical, half biological. Not because of people having sex with mechon, god no, that's probably not even possible. But because of some people figuring out it's easier to survive on the Mechonis if they transmute themselves to have mechon features, and can probably still reproduce normally. Babies born with metal the thickness and sharpness of aluminum foil some places on their body, later the metal toughens and allows the control of electricity, stuff like that. The more mechon is in them, the more mechanical they'll be. If only one parent is a cyborg then they have half the mechon features that they'd have if both parents are. And then the cyborgs start to think they're superior...and there's a war...

Wow, I just wrote a pitch for a kickass AU/sequel. I hate it when I come up with fangame ideas that will never be because I can't program. And also because of a possible cease and desist letter. RIP Pokemon Uranium.

You could just change all the names and details  and present it as something original. It's been done before.

[Dragoncat]

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

You could just change all the names and details  and present it as something original. It's been done before.

The issue of not being able to program worth a crap still stands...and I'm a sucker for fan content, so I'd want it to still be that way to bring in people who played the original.

I might get farther and discover more about mechon, things that would contradict everything I already think I know. That's also a thing. I wasn't entirely serious about wanting to see that idea come to life anyway. But if I did, I would totally make the main character Reyn's kid. Shulk would be the wise elder, not as old as the typical wise old man mentor you normally see, but still kinda filling that role, Dunban would probably either be dead or old and senile, and as for MC's mother, probably a generic female defense force soldier...who would have to be fleshed out into a proper OC...

Any more and I'll venture into spoiler territory for what I have played and want to actually write out the thing, and I've got enough on my plate as is.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Dragoncat

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

The issue of not being able to program worth a crap still stands...and I'm a sucker for fan content, so I'd want it to still be that way to bring in people who played the original.

I might get farther and discover more about mechon, things that would contradict everything I already think I know. That's also a thing. I wasn't entirely serious about wanting to see that idea come to life anyway. But if I did, I would totally make the main character Reyn's kid. Shulk would be the wise elder, not as old as the typical wise old man mentor you normally see, but still kinda filling that role, Dunban would probably either be dead or old and senile, and as for MC's mother, probably a generic female defense force soldier...who would have to be fleshed out into a proper OC...

Any more and I'll venture into spoiler territory for what I have played and want to actually write out the thing, and I've got enough on my plate as is.

Dunban old and senile!? Come on, don't fall into the JRPG perspective of ageing. He's only twelve years older than Shulk (though personally speaking, I would have loved it if they aged him up a bit more and made him Fiora's father, rather than her brother). 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Jotari

[Dragoncat]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

Dunban old and senile!? Come on, don't fall into the JRPG perspective of ageing. He's only twelve years older than Shulk (though personally speaking, I would have loved it if they aged him up a bit more and made him Fiora's father, rather than her brother). 

Well the Monado might've done more than just made his right arm useless...could make him get senile earlier, but yeah, okay. He can be in his middle age crisis, kinda getting to that point?

When I finish the game, I'll probably make this into an RP here. Got plenty of time to decide whether Reyn's got a "daddy's little girl" or "young bull, old bull" dynamic going on. Aka, daughter or son. A son would be named Raymond and go mostly by Ray, but idk about a daughter. It will probably have stats too! Got to figure out how to implement those...

Where are you getting the ages of the playables anyway? The affinity chart only lists ages for NPCs from what I've seen.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

Well the Monado might've done more than just made his right arm useless...could make him get senile earlier, but yeah, okay. He can be in his middle age crisis, kinda getting to that point?

When I finish the game, I'll probably make this into an RP here. Got plenty of time to decide whether Reyn's got a "daddy's little girl" or "young bull, old bull" dynamic going on. Aka, daughter or son. A son would be named Raymond and go mostly by Ray, but idk about a daughter. It will probably have stats too! Got to figure out how to implement those...

Where are you getting the ages of the playables anyway? The affinity chart only lists ages for NPCs from what I've seen.

Maybe the manual? Or the site Nintendo had up way back in the day. The playable characters all have official ages at any rate.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Jotari

[Dragoncat]

12 hours ago, Jotari said:

Maybe the manual? Or the site Nintendo had up way back in the day. The playable characters all have official ages at any rate.

Definitely not in the manual. Maybe the latter, and now I bet on the wiki.