Cuphead In: Don't Deal With the Mafia (Game Over)

[No Elimination]

On 05/02/2018 at 5:09 AM, Grim Matchstick said:

wally's post is solid I think

I don't agree with the werner read though, it's not quite a "too scummy to be scum" argument that Wally is making but it assumes a level of competence as scum that not every player has (like me lul). For me Werner is scummy because I... don't really feel like he's trying to scumhunt, and he voted for what's imo his weaker scumread. I guess I feel like the things you're pointing out aren't really alignment indicative

Also, this isn't alignment indicative but it's really obnoxious that Werner is so hostile over everything. It makes him unpleasant to play with. 

It isn't competence as much as it is paranoia. Scum are much less likely to make mistakes like that when casing someone.

I was the first vote on Djimmi and wanted to make sure they were not going to get away with their early play. It was a bit more than just "them not doing anything in RVS." I didn't do anything in RVS myself. I believed them to be posting just for the sake of it and trying to fake relevancy, which is a little different. Their post contained one egregious non-conclusion on a player which I thought would be easily faked and good for scum to try and keep their options open.

Anyway, main target of the day should probably be Rumor as they spent the entire time on their RVS post as someone else deftly mentioned. I don't think this is a case of "too scummy to be scum" either as struggling to come up with solid cases and reads is very common for scum. ##Vote: Rumor Honeybottoms. I'll read into Cala when I don't feel like death (so hopefully later).

[Refakitty³]

First of all, I want to apologize. I feel like I have been making this game a lot less fun for all of you. Mostly because while I do play mafia and have played it before on this forum, this particular format isn't really for me. I play on other forums too,  but this one is by far the most intense and it really isn't for me. However, I do want to end this one satisfyingly. I see Beppi is still on my case, which i'm honestly going to ignore for now since no matter what I say he won't change his mind. I don't really know how to feel about him, if i'm being honest. It's really not that hard for a mafia person to look like a townie, it happens all the time. What I don't like is that Grim seems to be pushing a Beppi case so much. He calls him out for lying but I honestly don't see how he is lying? Where is this lie stated? Did I miss it? An argument about him being sick and that being an 'Excuse' to be absent is just stupid and kind of hypocritical. Everyone can have reasons to not be online, I don't see how him being sick is supposed to be a genuine argument? Please tell me if i'm wrong about any of this.

##Vote Grim Matchstick

[Shiki Ryougi]

i'm alive where's the fire

[Shiki Ryougi]

oh jeez that's a lot of votes

i should figure out what the hell is going on itg

[C. C.]

the problem with the argument that Rumor is scum having trouble coming up with suspicions and cases is that she has come up with cases. For example while I disagreed with her suspicions about Matchstick early in D1, Cagney found them convincing enough to vote him. She just hasn't actually committed to those cases by voting people.

@Hilda- Matchstick's argument is that Beppi originally said this when asked why he thought it was scummy that Werner vanished: "As for calling them out for disappearing when it's only been an hour... in my defense I'm really congested right now and don't want to be here and I'm having a hard enough time keeping track of who is who with all these strange names".

Later when pushed about this, he said "Being sick isn't my answer for pushing Werner as vanishing. Being sick is why I'm not reading through the thread again at this point to see if anything else sticks out to me. The "scum intent" in being excited to start and then leaving is that they can say that they contributed by breaking out of RVS, and their comment just feels a bit like someone trying too hard to give "I meant to break RVS all along" vibes. I also understand that sometimes people have to leave in a hurry, and admittedly I didn't look at time stamps when I made the initial post. But I did look at timestamps now, and the next post after their "now we can do something productive" post was only about twenty minutes. If I don't assume that Werner disappeared for RL reasons, being eager to start and not being around when discussion starts shortly afterwards just doesn't look great."

I do agree that Matchstick is blowing the Beppi stuff out of proportion somewhat because he's focusing too much on that part about Beppi taking back how he was feeling sick as opposed to the overall argument. However, do you think that this outweighs everything else in that big post?

[Ochako Uraraka]

I read the EoD votals and compared them with previous votals. I don't feel like Djimmi was being presented as a counterwagon as such to Beppi and Werner, but that's also because I townread both of them. I feel like if there are scum on the Djimmi wagon its probably the ones who changed their view on Djimmi or just went for consolidation. Mafia is probably more passive than not.

I agree with Captain Brineybeard that Sally's post wrt handling their rumor read was bad. Like she made an entire paragraph about why Rumor was not scum in her eyes, only to entertain the notion of her read being wrong. There's scum intent here because mafia try to avoid being 'wrong' and this is like she's trying to weasel out of a commitment to a read.

I think in vacuum Kahl sticking with the Rumor vote looks bad but Rumor's play hasn't changed or done anything different fro him to possibly change his read with her so I'm actually fine with his vote on her. I don't really have anything to say about Rumor because YES I don't see scum intent in scumreading someone but not voting them but if you're doing this continuously then you're avoiding associative tells which fucks the town over. Honey, put your vote where your mouth is, K? Still not feeling this yet though.

 

 

 

[Shiki Ryougi]

oy vey so i don't think looking at votals is gonna help much

when you've got a big wagon on a villager it's really difficult to make any alignment interpretations off of that unless you've got one of the counterwagons flipped as well, which we obviously don't

dammit that was my ticket back into relevancy fml

[Ochako Uraraka]

I promise I have a vote coming up someone just distracted me.

[C. C.]

35 minutes ago, Wally Warbles said:

I was the first vote on Djimmi and wanted to make sure they were not going to get away with their early play. It was a bit more than just "them not doing anything in RVS." I didn't do anything in RVS myself. I believed them to be posting just for the sake of it and trying to fake relevancy, which is a little different. Their post contained one egregious non-conclusion on a player which I thought would be easily faked and good for scum to try and keep their options open.

I was going to sleep but I couldn't let this go.

yes, a non-conclusion is bad. however, not coming to a conclusion less than a page in after RVS is not something that is important enough to lynch people for at the end of the phase. the further we get from RVS the more information both everyone has to work with. suspicious play later on in the game should be weighed more than suspicious play early on in the game because players should be able to play better late in the game than earlier in the game. 

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

The more people talk about that lynch, the more I want to punch something because it was so obviously bad.

12 minutes ago, Rumor Honeybottoms said:

oy vey so i don't think looking at votals is gonna help much

when you've got a big wagon on a villager it's really difficult to make any alignment interpretations off of that unless you've got one of the counterwagons flipped as well, which we obviously don't

dammit that was my ticket back into relevancy fml

...what?

[Shiki Ryougi]

from a skim of today's pickings:

beppi and matchstick feel town vs town purely off of tone

hilda solidifies my townread on her with the post she made higher up on this page

the fire that werner's bringing makes me lean town but i should probably actually read all those words at some point lmao

brineybeard is like blatantly town and i wouldn't be surprised if he got doc saved or something

not 100% sure what to make of wally. low quantity/high quality posts is easier for scum to fake than the reverse. hasn't really given me any super strong reason to read him either direction. will call it null for now.

not sure i like cala maria's latest post. first paragraph is useless fluff. second paragraph is a piggybacked read. third paragraph is what strikes me as the oddest, tbh. "i'm fine with this person voting you but i don't have thoughts on you yet but you'd better not do x" is pretty waffly. almost reads to me like she knows i'm town and would rather have others mislynch me than have to hop onto the wagon herself

[Shiki Ryougi]

mm yeah ok we'll ##Vote: Cala Maria

[Shiki Ryougi]

1 minute ago, Dr. Kahl said:

The more people talk about that lynch, the more I want to punch something because it was so obviously bad.

...what?

[Aizen]

Day 2.1 - Votals
Rumor Honeybottoms (3): Dr. Kahl, Beppi The Clown, Wally Warbles
Cala Maria (3): Captain Brineybeard, Cagney Carnation, Rumor Honeybottoms
Grim Matchstick (2): Werner Werman, Hilda Berg
Beppi the Clown (1): Grim Matchstick
Not Voting (3): Baroness Von Bon Bon, Cala Maria, Sally Stageplay

You have 62 hours and 40 minutes left in the day. With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

No, I mean like...what did you mean with that post?

[Shiki Ryougi]

huh did i miss werner unvoting me

shrug emoji

[Ochako Uraraka]

I have been defending you from the start; I can't do anything about you playing badly and not voting people who you actually think are scummy, considering that you actually didn't vote someone who you thought was scummy.

[Shiki Ryougi]

Just now, Dr. Kahl said:

No, I mean like...what did you mean with that post?

oh

i wanted to see if i could establish some primary suspects based off yesterday's voting patterns

and wound up with nothing

and was frustrated by this

[Ochako Uraraka]

I feel like that vote is pure self-pres -.-

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

Self preservation in the first 10 hours of the day?  

[Shiki Ryougi]

2 minutes ago, Cala Maria said:

I have been defending you from the start; I can't do anything about you playing badly and not voting people who you actually think are scummy, considering that you actually didn't vote someone who you thought was scummy.

if you're defending me, then why are you "fine" with a vote on me? unless you're just trying to pressure me into doing shit, in which case i'd consider adding pressure yourself instead of just holding the door open for other people. just doesn't seem like a natural reaction

2 minutes ago, Cala Maria said:

I feel like that vote is pure self-pres -.-

you think i've been paying close enough attention to know what today's vc was?

[Shiki Ryougi]

Just now, Dr. Kahl said:

Self preservation in the first 10 hours of the day?  

also yeah this

[Refakitty³]

25 minutes ago, Captain Brineybeard said:

the problem with the argument that Rumor is scum having trouble coming up with suspicions and cases is that she has come up with cases. For example while I disagreed with her suspicions about Matchstick early in D1, Cagney found them convincing enough to vote him. She just hasn't actually committed to those cases by voting people.

@Hilda- Matchstick's argument is that Beppi originally said this when asked why he thought it was scummy that Werner vanished: "As for calling them out for disappearing when it's only been an hour... in my defense I'm really congested right now and don't want to be here and I'm having a hard enough time keeping track of who is who with all these strange names".

Later when pushed about this, he said "Being sick isn't my answer for pushing Werner as vanishing. Being sick is why I'm not reading through the thread again at this point to see if anything else sticks out to me. The "scum intent" in being excited to start and then leaving is that they can say that they contributed by breaking out of RVS, and their comment just feels a bit like someone trying too hard to give "I meant to break RVS all along" vibes. I also understand that sometimes people have to leave in a hurry, and admittedly I didn't look at time stamps when I made the initial post. But I did look at timestamps now, and the next post after their "now we can do something productive" post was only about twenty minutes. If I don't assume that Werner disappeared for RL reasons, being eager to start and not being around when discussion starts shortly afterwards just doesn't look great."

I do agree that Matchstick is blowing the Beppi stuff out of proportion somewhat because he's focusing too much on that part about Beppi taking back how he was feeling sick as opposed to the overall argument. However, do you think that this outweighs everything else in that big post?

Thank you for explaining, I can actually live with this. I will ##Unvote. I would still like to know what Beppi was 'lying'  about though.

[Shiki Ryougi]

idk i just think it's really weird that your first reaction to me voting you is "wtf i've been defending you all game"

[Ochako Uraraka]

You say I'm waffling on you, but I've been defending you. Your reasons for voting me are false. You've done nothing to dissuade Kahl from not voting you, just because I disagree with someone's reasons, I need to call them out and not be fine with it? Wtf is that logic?