Cuphead In: Don't Deal With the Mafia (Game Over)

[Kamina]

I mean

The thing about Captain is that there's nothing really concrete I can point to and say "I don't like this"

But I'm just paranoid that they're one of those really good anonymous players who are always spot on and look town, but are actually scum. It's not something I'm going to look at too deeply, unless he survives for too long.

[No Elimination]

Honestly the cases on captain are too varied and stuff but the main thing is that no, he's not cleared from possibly being a doc target, his interactions with rumor weren't good and even though I prob can't convicne anyone from townreading him please at least approach his posts with a bit of scepticism. Last game everyone just assumed someone was town and ignored them all game just for them to flip scum. Read all of their posts as stuff that can come from mafia, scrutinise etc.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

Fair enough.  This is my lynch priority at the moment (minus player guesses, updated every post!), so I don't think I'm dismissing him.  

Dr. Kahl
Wally Warbles
Beppi the Clown
Cala Maria
Cagney Carnation
Werner Werman
Grim Matchstick
Sally Stageplay
Captain Brineybeard
Hilda Berg
Baroness Von Bon Bon
Rumor Honeybottoms

[C. C.]

she doesn't need to say "I'm changing my reads". She changed her reads. If I ever directly said "she said she changed her reads" that's what I meant. again, I said that it was troubling that her reads were inconsistent and that she hadn't given much reason for the changes, but I gave her the benefit of the doubt on that because I was townreading her.

again, not everybody came into the phase with a confirmed guilty looking to slam rumor on everything she did. I was townreading her and so I defended her on stuff that you were blowing out of proportion. in doing that, there were probably times where I went a bit too far and should have just let her say stuff.

imo i was way too obvious a doc target to have been the mafia NK unless the mafia only spent 5 seconds deciding who to kill. the no kill is more likely because they tried to kill someone like cagney or beppi and the doc successfully WIFOMd that they wouldn't kill me and also protected them. didn't bother saying this before because I didn't think people would ever seriously be discussing my alignment, but here we are I guess

@kahl- there's scum intent there because she could have been trying to distance herself from her buddy without directly bussing them

[C. C.]

less than an hour left I guess so ##Unvote, ##Vote: Rumor Honeybottoms

 

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

Yeah, I probably should have switched you and Sally in retrospect.

[Rain Nijika]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Kahl said:

That's fine.  Linking the cases that I'm interested in responses to below make this quicker.  You uh kind of tore apart my contribution, so not linking that again.

Captain Beppi Grim

Thanks man.

On 7-2-2018 at 2:59 AM, Captain Brineybeard said:

I think Sally/Wally's votes were also still bad just because of how much weight they were giving to someone not saying much right as RVS was ending. Sally's is worse than Wally's for suddenly saying Djimmi was bad when she had never talked about him before (Wally has somewhat of an excuse since that was his first post of the day), but I think the timing of Cala's vote has more scum intent. Scum Sally probably would have thought it would be easier to get a Rumor lynch going, as opposed to defending her? (unless they're buddies)

(cut away everything not talking about me)

My main focal points earlier that day were Beppi, Hilda and Werner (as in, they were who stood out to me in a scummy way).  All of them had reasons for me to not want to vote them though (I mentioned how I changed my mind about Werner here ), Beppi being sick was a good enough excuse that I wanted to give them more time to contribute, and Hilda... is just a pain to read in general (wouldn't provide associative reads either).

Which meant I had to look into other people. Since the phase was ending, I focussed on the people who seemed protential lynches, and out of Djimmy, Rumor and Grimm, I found Djimmy the scummiest (...oops). I did mention why Djimmy only bothered me on a reread I think.

19 hours ago, Beppi The Clown said:

##Vote: Sally Stageplay

 

Stated my thoughts on her play already, those posts should be easily findable by going directly to this account's content, so don't make me repeat them right now. I feel better about this than Maria. Also, paranoid thoughts down below; I have absolutely nothing to support this and it's all wild speculation but will post it down below in case anyone gives a shit:

 

  Hide contents

I just had a thought that maybe their insistence on Captain being a stronger town read due to no-kill night is because they were blocked on the night kill, so they picked a player that was universally seen as townie to throw out the idea that the kill was stopped by a doctor and not a role blocker? I mean ... there's absolutely no evidence at all to suggest either of those roles exist, no-kill could've just as easily been due to scum idling or a BPV, but just ... it just seems like a weird insistence. But again, this is just me being paranoid.

 

 

Not going to respond to her scattered cases now, but they should show up when I'm reading up on her tomorrow.

I already explained what my thoughts on the night actions were, and Beppi already mentions this as just them being paranoid. I mean, I guess trying to mess with rolespecs like that is possible if they know they got roleblocked? (Not scum though)

To defend my assumption a bit, I realize there's other options, but most don't feel likely. Like, if Captain is scum, I doubt scum would have idled (he's way to active and doesn't strike me as the person to forget), and he would probably be the one to carry out the action (unless other people have a certain role to make them a better choice, but we at least know they didn't have a strongman), and a roleblock on him feels weird. Jailer is ..... okay I'm dumb, can we just take that as explanation?

Posting this now in case I don't finish responding to Wally's case in time.

[Kamina]

Dammit guys, even if you know who I am could you try not making such big hints at my identity lol

2 minutes ago, Sally Stageplay said:

To defend my assumption a bit, I realize there's other options, but most don't feel likely. Like, if Captain is scum, I doubt scum would have idled (he's way to active and doesn't strike me as the person to forget), and he would probably be the one to carry out the action (unless other people have a certain role to make them a better choice, but we at least know they didn't have a strongman), and a roleblock on him feels weird. Jailer is ..... okay I'm dumb, can we just take that as explanation?

And to defend my paranoia, I am working from something more than just assumptions.

I think we have a little over half an hour to go? Is there anything else we need to say? Or should I just hammer here?

[All Might]

Day 2.5 - Votals
Rumor Honeybottoms (5):, Sally Stageplay, Cagney Carnation, Cala Maria, Dr Kahl, Captain Brineybeard
Sally Stageplay (2): Werner Werman, Beppi The Clown
Cala Maria (1): Baroness Von Bon Bon
Not Voting (4): Grim Matchstick,  Wally Warbles, Rumor Honeybottoms, Hilda Berg

You have ~30 minutes left in the day. With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Kamina]

Oh, lol, can't hammer

But that brings up another question ... can we even hammer? Are Matchstick, Warbles, Hilda, Baroness, and Werner even here? (I think Werner said he wasn't going to make it back to phase end, ugh)

[No Elimination]

I am here vote imo.

[Shiki Ryougi]

put me at L-1

do it for the vine

[Kamina]

Oh, good to see you're on Wally. Guess between you and me we have enough votes then.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I do have my reasons for being cryptic and saying some of the things I do. Even if it might not make sense now, it will. Hopefully I'll be the one to explain myself. Will do my best to reread stuff during the night phase.

Let me know when you want me to hammer, I'm just waiting to see if anyone else has anything they want to say.

[All Might]

9 minutes remain!

[No Elimination]

##Vote: Rumor Honeybottoms

Hammer imo.

[Kamina]

##Unvote

##Vote: Rumor Honeybottom

[All Might]

Hammer shut up

in the middle of something so the flip will be soon

[Aizen]

Night 2
Rumor Honeybottoms (7): Sally Stageplay, Cagney Carnation, Cala Maria, Dr Kahl, Captain Brineybeard, Wally Warbles, Beppi The Clown (LYNCH!)
Cala Maria (1): Baroness Von Bon Bon
Sally Stageplay (1): Werner Werman
Not Voting (3): Grim Matchstick, Rumor Honeybottoms, Hilda Berg

Rumor Honeybottoms, Mafia Goon, has been lynched!

Is it now Night 2. You have 24 hours to send in your night actions.

[Aizen]

Day 3

Beppi The Clown, Town Doctor, was thrown off his rollercoaster last night.

It is now Day 3. You have 72 hours to decide on a lynch. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

TFW you want to tell the doctor not to crumb so hard but you also don't want to draw attention to the doctor.  Well, there's probably a backup anyways.

On 2/9/2018 at 4:54 PM, Beppi The Clown said:

I mean

The thing about Captain is that there's nothing really concrete I can point to and say "I don't like this"

But I'm just paranoid that they're one of those really good anonymous players who are always spot on and look town, but are actually scum. It's not something I'm going to look at too deeply, unless he survives for too long.

Beppi probably didn't protect Captain considering this.  Too lazy to figure out who Beppi did protect TBH (definitely me).

##Vote: Baroness

What I said yesterday.  I feel like a goon is more likely to be bussed than an actual role, but none of the first three votes really bother me (with the last four coming after the Cop claim).  Thought about Wally faking a guilty on his buddy for the STREET CRED, but it'd be pretty obvious he was scum if that was the case.  Everyone else w/the exception of Hilda/Sally/Captain feels like impossible to be scum, unless I'm missing something I guess.

[Ochako Uraraka]

On 2/9/2018 at 6:32 AM, Baroness Von Bon Bon said:

Let me state ahead of time, I'm tired as hell and would much rather take a nap but I know I need to post so I'm going to attempt to post what I can, and then probably take a nap.  A follow-up should occur after I wake up from my nap.

First off ITT people constantly not reading my fucking posts and constantly bringing up the same old shit over and over again.  The start of the day phase is Grim and Dr. Kahl commenting on things I've already answered or commented on myself.  Grim not reading my posts WRT Djinni-lynch and all my thoughts on the process.  Also lol @ stating that you think I'm town but seemingly attempting to throw sludge on my name.

Dr. Kahl comments on my vote on Cala last phase because it was apparently me trying to turbo at the end of the day phase when I was advocating against a turbo.  Interestingly enough if they read my posts last day phase I actually called myself a hypocrite in the same post of me criticizing Captain.  I also stated that I actually wasn't advocating for a turbo and that I 'expected nothing to happen with my vote' And that it was to prove a point to blackbeard.

These types of things have been a re-occuring theme apparently with my posts, I'm sorry that part of the first day phase I wasn't all that well or into it but I've answered questions and I'm growing tired of having to answer or respond to the same things over and over again.  This is partially my fault for not being around that much today but seriously guys.  IF you are going to complain about me and comment on my posts, actually fucking read them.

In Grim's massive wall post two things weird stand out to me: The 'would not lynch Kahl' and the fact that Hilda is in his 'everyone else' pile.  HE's massively scumreading Beppi but beppi/Hilda had a fairly important interaction with each other and I feel that there should be some sort of read on Hilda there.  Also all of the comments about him potentially knowing people should really just stop.

I feel like the interaction between Werner/Grim regarding player identities is not alignment indicative.  And I would like to see a better reasoning behind that Grim vote from Werner, it really seemed weird and out of place to me.  I don't think it was scummy, just extremely weird and I didn't quite get the feeling that Werner was voting Grim as a scum read from it.  I still think Werner is town though.

Wally Warbles really isn't doing anything, his one post on day 1 was not memorable and his first post of day 2 isn't anything crazy.  I also feel like the Rumor vote here is extremely easy, Rumor was one of the lynch candidates the day previous and Wally's entire case consists of "He never swapped off his RVS vote."  Which is really bad but I've sometimes gone entire day phases without really voting before and I don't think that alone can signify who scum is.  I really dislike this post.

Cala's return to the thread is bad imo.  It states some small opinions of her EOD thoughts but has zero actual reads except for on a sally sheep.  No vote also is bad, she even proceeds to state, "She has a vote coming." And then just does not vote anyone until quite a while later, and it's on hilda berg of all things.  Also overall I feel the vote in itself is EXTREMELY weak.  It's a vote based off of some players past game in FEH mafia when it could easily not be the same person.  There reasons for Hilda being scum are just "She acted like this person who was scum in that game, and they are doing that same thing right now."  I'd like to know what @Cala Maria's thoughts are on Hilda's reactions and interactions with players in this game.  I stated this previously but Hilda and Beppi had a pretty interesting scuffle in day 1 and I think it's extremely important for reads in my opinion.  Overall these posts are not making me like Cala at all and I'm further strengthening my scum read on this slot.

Wally's post shortly after makes me dislike everything about him as well.  "Well I'm glad I don't have to reread Cala now."  Just because you assume Rumor is scum, doesn't mean you can just ignore rereading a player who is on a lot of people's scum radar. If you think Cala is town I'd say there is reason enough in that fact to reread her, maybe something you find could help other people see her in a townie light as you do.  Also you really think scum can't fabricate that argument?  That argument on page 13 wasn't anything big and is definitely not alignment indicative.  I guess you could get gut vibes but for something fairly small and over the span of about 4 posts I don't think can say that's town/scum scuffling.  @Wally WarblesWhy are Hilda and Sally the next 2 points of interest for you? Could you actually state more thoughts behind your reads?  I feel like this post has almost no actual scum hunting in it, but seems as if it's made to look nice.  Most of this post was about defending Cala while at the same time stating you wouldn't reread Cala and tunneling on Rumor, which if you wanna tunnel fine go ahead, but give us your thoughts for your other scum reads?

Seems like I wasn't the only person with these thoughts about Cala and Wally.

Once again Grim is commenting on who he thinks players are and I think he should stop, player meta doesn't really help since people have been known before to act like other players in anony games and most of the time players are wrong about who players are.  The only time we have seen REALLY accurate player guess lists post game have been when scum team up to guess who people are.  At least if I'm remembering correctly.

I noticed something here WRT cala and Grim.  People mentioned how Cala dropped the Grim scumread and I think it's interesting that Grim brought this up.  I dislike this but ti's primarily gut.

Did Wally just say Werner/Captain were scum with Rumor?  Also we don't have to know or assume Cala's scum buddies to believe she's scum.  Cala could easily be acting independently from her scum team and be either bussed, or town read or anything.  I don't really see any reasoning in your post for me to think Cala is town.  Maybe a reread with quotes from Cala and other things might help but hey who rereads their supposed obvious town reads amirite?

I'm starting to go into skim state here....This post became a lot more of something than I thought it would, but there is still like 2-3 pages of stuff.

I disagree with a lot of Sally's post,  I don't think most of the cases against Cala are misrepresentations.  Also outside of defending Cala and questioning Rumor more there isn't much scumhunting here and it's pretty empty.

Also comments on thinking Cala is scum when I swear she was defending her to some extent in the previous post, I must be misunderstanding something here.

Sally posted more concrete thoughts on Cala, glad to hear their standing and would like to know how they feel about my Cala case.

Oh hey Cagney taking a pot shot at me over something that was pretty obviously a misread. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Ending up skimming most of the rest of things.

Cala > Wally > Grim > Sally

##Vote: Cala Marie

Hopefully I didn't miss anything too important.

Yeah so this post feels scum motivated. I already explained some of the reasons yesterday but to recap:

-Grim scumread makes no sense. Why is Grim scum for not factoring in Beppi/Hilda interactions? Why is Grim using player guesses scummy? What is bad about saying that he wouldn't lynch Kahl?

-The one on me is also bad. What is or was scummy about my EoD thoughts? Why does my Hilda vote come from scum when I have a wagon on me and no one was willing to lynch Hilda before then? Since we know that you thought that Rumor was town, why did you push the scum/scum argument against Wally in this post? Since you apparently thought that it was a town vs scum, why does Wally townreading me and not reading me make him scum? Considering that you had a similar view on the wagons. A lot about this scumread is dismissive because it takes out of context my actions and also ignores the whole defense of me. Like I can't see how not voting in one of my posts is scummy considering I was still reading the thread and giving my thoughts, also wagon analysis is legit, please explain the scum intent there.

-Wally scumread mostly sounds like you didn't like his reads which doesn't mean he's scum. Also think that putting Wally over Grim looks suspicious AF but its hard to argue this when both reads were spun out of disagreeing with their play.

-You kind of brushed off Sally which is weird because I can't see how some guy dissecting posts and giving good arguments for why someone is scum(so Wally) is worse than someone waffling on two wagons when there's no reason to and not committing to a proper analysis(Sally).

 

In general this post looks like a classic chainsaw defense of Rumor. It attacks all the people possibly anti-Rumor without ever mentioning Rumor and the basis for the reads itself is shaky.

 

##Vote:Baroness Von Bon Bon

[Ochako Uraraka]

Also I didn't feel like scum were really pushing for any lynches D1 so she makes the most sense with that in mind. Which is awkward because Sally's D2 was really scummy but I didn't feel like scum were trying to push anything D1? I want to see a defense from her in any case; p confident that scum have to be among the 4 players that I mentioned yesterday.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

I agree w/most of that except the Wally scumread part.  I dunno, to me Wally read as doing the bare minimum possible on D1 and when he came back, he just justified his Djimmi position.  His new reads didn't really convince me either, so I can get why someone else would be bothered by Wally, and why they'd be bothered more by Wally than by Sally (TBH, the only reason I voted Sally was because I didn't think Wally was going to get lynched).  I agree w/you in the greater context that it's bothering because he's attacking the people attacking Rumor but I don't think the Wally read and voting Wally over Sally was bad on its own.

5 minutes ago, Cala Maria said:

Also I didn't feel like scum were really pushing for any lynches D1 so she makes the most sense with that in mind. Which is awkward because Sally's D2 was really scummy but I didn't feel like scum were trying to push anything D1? I want to see a defense from her in any case; p confident that scum have to be among the 4 players that I mentioned yesterday.

IDR who mentioned this (maybe you?), but do you think Scum!Sally would vote her scumbuddy over Cala just because she didn't want to put Cala at L-2?  I dunno, I feel like scum would commit to a bus (why not just say Rumor is a stronger scumread?) over voting her buddy in such a roundabout manner.

What four players you talking about?  I'm too lazy to reread.

[C. C.]

eh I can't justify a Grim vote. The interactions with Rumor aren't good on his end either but nothing else seems scummy to me.

Sally is weird because she defended Rumor on D1 and then switched to voting her as a #2 to the Cala read. The reason for switching opinions seems congruent in that she addresses why her past townread is no longer valid and gives reasons for scumreading Rumor that happened after Sally's initial defence of Rumor. It's possible that she was sort of pseudo-bussing Rumor on D2, by attacking her while leaving herself an out to go back to Cala, but it just seems very complicated. wouldn't lynch here today

didn't really have time to read anyone else. Rumor being scum kind of demotivated me tbh because it threw a wrench in most of my reads and I'm not very confident in them anymore. Scumteam is probably Baroness/Hilda, maybe Kahl.

On 2/7/2018 at 1:42 PM, Werner Werman said:

I have a theory that needs to be tested:

##Unvote
##Vote: Sally Stageplay

If my theory is correct, whoever was responsible for the lack of kill on N1 is going to die tonight.  Also, if my theory is correct, D3 should involve a lot less screaming, since I think said role is one of today's points of contention.  Can't believe I'm lynching for the sake of roles this early.

Werner what did this mean?

[Ochako Uraraka]

36 minutes ago, Dr. Kahl said:

I agree w/most of that except the Wally scumread part.  I dunno, to me Wally read as doing the bare minimum possible on D1 and when he came back, he just justified his Djimmi position.  His new reads didn't really convince me either, so I can get why someone else would be bothered by Wally, and why they'd be bothered more by Wally than by Sally (TBH, the only reason I voted Sally was because I didn't think Wally was going to get lynched).  I agree w/you in the greater context that it's bothering because he's attacking the people attacking Rumor but I don't think the Wally read and voting Wally over Sally was bad on its own.

IDR who mentioned this (maybe you?), but do you think Scum!Sally would vote her scumbuddy over Cala just because she didn't want to put Cala at L-2?  I dunno, I feel like scum would commit to a bus (why not just say Rumor is a stronger scumread?) over voting her buddy in such a roundabout manner.

What four players you talking about?  I'm too lazy to reread.

I agree that Wally's D1 isn't impressive but I'd argue that his D2 was good, without factoring the cop claim. The point here is that he wasn't blindly tunneling on Rumor. And also that there was an actual argument for scum!Rumor since scum can hide behind inactivity plus he analyzed Rumor's D2 content so he isn't really being lazy here. But from Baroness' posts I get the feeling that she's arguing otherwise because she ignores all of Wally's arguments. This is the same thing with how Wally sheeps Grim's defense of me, it is kind of ignoring it and saying that she doesn't like it. I feel like she's also hypocritical in the same post because, if she thinks Rumor is town, she can at least tell people why Rumor is town? Even if it is a reiteration of what everyone else has said, at least we have something concrete from her to read. Its one thing if you're not convinced; its another if you're ignoring context. Also yeah this part might be biased because we know in hindsight that Wally behaved the way he did because of a scan.

I feel like the fear of putting me at L-2 would be understandable if she didn't want to get flak from hopping on to a wagon. But wasn't that L-1? Well I think that makes this complicated tbf. I think voting her scumbuddy is plausible since she still thought I was scummier and could've still committed to a vote later in the phase. Like I think that talking about bad cases falling on me and saying that scum are on me makes sense coming from scum who know the alignments, while calling for my lynch because of my Hilda vote.  You're right that the not putting me at L-1 part looks awkward coming from scum though.

 

Baroness/Captain/Hilda/Sally. I'm townreading the rest of the players but don't want to talk about it unless its required.