Favorite development for a character outside of their main/original game

[NekoKnight]

Hector's character in Heroes is both humorous (the Love Abounds paralogue) and tragic (his TT dialogue). Despite his blunt nature, he cares deeply about his friends and loved ones, even keeping it a secret and accepting that he is fated to die on the battlefield, because the knowledge would sadden his friends.

Also, if people are going to mention how SoV improved Grima, I'm going to mention Zephiel in FE7. He's kind of a generic evil emperor type in his base game, so it is heartbreaking to see him as the virtuous prince with a final wish that he could have a happy family. "Local Desmond Ruins Everything" reads the Bern Tribune.

Edited March 1, 2018 by NekoKnight

[Etrurian emperor]

6 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Hector's character in Heroes is both humorous (the Love Abounds paralogue) and tragic (his TT dialogue). Despite his blunt nature, he cares deeply about his friends and loved ones, even keeping it a secret and accepting that he is fated to die on the battlefield, because the knowledge would sadden his friends.

Also, if people are going to mention how SoV improved Grima, I'm going to mention Zephiel in FE7. He's kind of a generic evil emperor type in his base game, so it is heartbreaking to see him as the virtuous prince with a final wish that he could have a happy family. "Local Desmond Ruins Everything" reads the Bern Tribune.

I actually think 7 did more to hamper Zephiel's characterization than to help. In 6 Zephiel's drama lama actions aren't as bad because its not made clear how universally beloved he really is. But 7 makes it very clear the whole world loves him which I feel greatly undermines Zephiel's belief that mankind is inherently rotten. 

[omegaxis1]

10 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I actually think 7 did more to hamper Zephiel's characterization than to help. In 6 Zephiel's drama lama actions aren't as bad because its not made clear how universally beloved he really is. But 7 makes it very clear the whole world loves him which I feel greatly undermines Zephiel's belief that mankind is inherently rotten. 

You think? It could be the abuse of his parents and the expectations is precisely what made Zephiel hate humanity.

[Etrurian emperor]

10 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You think? It could be the abuse of his parents and the expectations is precisely what made Zephiel hate humanity.

Its been a while but I don't think Zephiel or Genuivere ever mention people's high expectations playing a role. The main theme about Zephiels fall is that his father tried to murder him. Tragic but he's hardly the only Fire emblem character who had that happen to him and the rest of the world still loves him. So for me the image appears that old Zephy went crazy because one person in the world didn't love him and just  because that person is his dad doesn't make it any less melodramatic. I think he would have worked far better if he wasn't so popular and instead was despised for trying to push vital yet unpopular reforms. The people of Bern being ungrateful on top of his father being a complete scumbag would have been far more effective to justify Zephiel's mental state. 

Queen Helen isn't winning any awards for her skills as a mother but she ends up promising to be better. She probably kept her word on that one. 

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Its been a while but I don't think Zephiel or Genuivere ever mention people's high expectations playing a role. The main theme about Zephiels fall is that his father tried to murder him. Tragic but he's hardly the only Fire emblem character who had that happen to him and the rest of the world still loves him. So for me the image appears that old Zephy went crazy because one person in the world didn't love him and just  because that person is his dad doesn't make it any less melodramatic. I think he would have worked far better if he wasn't so popular and instead was despised for trying to push vital yet unpopular reforms. The people of Bern being ungrateful on top of his father being a complete scumbag would have been far more effective to justify Zephiel's mental state. 

Queen Helen isn't winning any awards for her skills as a mother but she ends up promising to be better. She probably kept her word on that one. 

That isn't what I meant. Remember that everyone absolutely loved Zephiel. They wanted him to be king no matter what. And his father wanted Genuivere to be the ruler with her husband, wanting the daughter of the woman he loved to ascend the throne, not the son of the woman that he was forced to wed. He tried to declare that Genuivere's husband will be the next king and not Zephiel, but the people made an outcry about it and forced him to let Zephiel be the ruler still. And Helen really was a terrible mother that put so much burden and likely even said that the people wanted him like this. 

All this pressure, never once receiving the parental love he desired, all because of the people that desired him to be king that drove his father to try and poison him, it just broke Zephiel. He just uses his father as the main source, but it's actually likely that it was everyone in his kingdom that drove Zephiel to it.

[Arthur97]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I actually think 7 did more to hamper Zephiel's characterization than to help. In 6 Zephiel's drama lama actions aren't as bad because its not made clear how universally beloved he really is. But 7 makes it very clear the whole world loves him which I feel greatly undermines Zephiel's belief that mankind is inherently rotten. 

Just because they love him doesn't mean he can't see problems with humanity. His father trying to kill him was probably the the catalyst, but he may have spotted repeated instances of humanity's misdeeds elsewhere. After all, just because they love him, doesn't mean they love each other.

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Just because they love him doesn't mean he can't see problems with humanity. His father trying to kill him was probably the the catalyst, but he may have spotted repeated instances of humanity's misdeeds elsewhere. After all, just because they love him, doesn't mean they love each other.

Only issue is that he just mentions more about his dad than anything, as if that was the complete source of his hatred. The way he says it just feels like he judges humanity based on his father's actions, but we know that there should be more to it. Just wish it was actually voiced out.

[NekoKnight]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I actually think 7 did more to hamper Zephiel's characterization than to help. In 6 Zephiel's drama lama actions aren't as bad because its not made clear how universally beloved he really is. But 7 makes it very clear the whole world loves him which I feel greatly undermines Zephiel's belief that mankind is inherently rotten. 

Maybe it's not completely congruous but I like his character in FE7 more. There is more pathos in a man who became bitter from parental abuse (which is well written in itself) than a man who just hates humanity without much context.

[Thane]

2 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Maybe it's not completely congruous but I like his character in FE7 more. There is more pathos in a man who became bitter from parental abuse (which is well written in itself) than a man who just hates humanity without much context.

Guinivere DOES explain his backstory, but it's done in some pretty heavy-handed exposition, which is a favorite of Binding Blade's. It was always made clear that Zephiel was a damn solid prince and a good person and that his father chipped away at him for a very long time, but I believe it was made more impactful by seeing it in Blazing Blade.

[Arthur97]

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Only issue is that he just mentions more about his dad than anything, as if that was the complete source of his hatred. The way he says it just feels like he judges humanity based on his father's actions, but we know that there should be more to it. Just wish it was actually voiced out.

Well, I could see why he'd get obsessed with that example. I never played Binding Blade (for obvious reasons), so I'm far from an expert.

[Erureido]

Grima for the reasons that have already been mentioned. Though SoV expanded on his backstory, it wasn't enough for me to really care about the character since he still felt like some random, giant dragon who just gained the urge to destroy the world for some reason. Then I read his level 40 conversation in Heroes, and it gave me a different look at the character that I didn't see before: someone who has been used for something over and over, then discarded once people moved on. 

Chrom deserves a mention too, especially for what Warriors did to him in his supports. His support with Robin really humanizes the former as we learn about Chrom's insecurities as a prince and what is coming for him in the future. I also find lots of charming moments from him in other supports such as when he calls out Camilla for her obsessive behavior over Corrin in their supports together, or his support with Azura that shows more of his social awkwardness.

[Water Mage]

This thread made me realize that there is a character that I really want explored more: Julius.

While it would be easy to think of him as a generic evil sorcerer, the game seems to imply that he wasn’t always evil, so it would be interesting to to explore how he was before being corrupted. 

When you think about it, Julius’s story is actually pretty tragic, considering he was practically bred to evil. 

If Julius ever appears in Heroes, it would be interesting to portray him struggling with his possession.

[omegaxis1]

16 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

This thread made me realize that there is a character that I really want explored more: Julius.

While it would be easy to think of him as a generic evil sorcerer, the game seems to imply that he wasn’t always evil, so it would be interesting to to explore how he was before being corrupted. 

When you think about it, Julius’s story is actually pretty tragic, considering he was practically bred to evil. 

If Julius ever appears in Heroes, it would be interesting to portray him struggling with his possession.

I am pretty sure that if Grima, who was supposed to be evil incarnate (still is really), can show a more well defined personality, I am pretty sure that they can make Julius also have a case of being shown to be good. After all, remember that Loptyr doesn't go full on possession in the Holy Blood. Rather, Loptyr's will is exerted through them and the person is having their personality warped. 

The reason why Grima is not going genocidal on us is likely because of how:

A) one of his quotes mentions that he lost his memories, so that could be it. 

B) his and Robin's personalities may have merged somewhat, or they are struggling, so we get a Grima that has the calmness of Robin.

So here, it could be shown that Julius has his personality emerge from every now and then. 

[Water Mage]

16 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I am pretty sure that if Grima, who was supposed to be evil incarnate (still is really), can show a more well defined personality, I am pretty sure that they can make Julius also have a case of being shown to be good. After all, remember that Loptyr doesn't go full on possession in the Holy Blood. Rather, Loptyr's will is exerted through them and the person is having their personality warped. 

The reason why Grima is not going genocidal on us is likely because of how:

A) one of his quotes mentions that he lost his memories, so that could be it. 

B) his and Robin's personalities may have merged somewhat, or they are struggling, so we get a Grima that has the calmness of Robin.

So here, it could be shown that Julius has his personality emerge from every now and then. 

That what I was thinking about, but doesn’t Loptyr fully control Julius in the last chapter? I believe in Julia even mentions in her boss quote against Julius, that her brother was taken away from her.

[omegaxis1]

8 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

That what I was thinking about, but doesn’t Loptyr fully control Julius in the last chapter? I believe in Julia even mentions in her boss quote against Julius, that her brother was taken away from her.

It is Loptyr that is possessing him, but see, Julius explicitly shows some form of his own will through his love for Ishtar. She is like the one and only thread to some form of humanity. He is even able to show some restraint in evil for her sake, but only mildly. And he expresses plenty of jealousy towards Reinhardt for the way he is with Ishtar and warns Ishtar that if he sees him near her again, he will kill him. 

At Julius' death, that is the one point when Loptyr fully does take control of Julius.