vanguard333 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) Over the course of the series, Fire Emblem has had it's share of what I'm calling Evil Usurpers: a sort-of disc-one villain that typically begins the plot by being leader of the group that often betrays the king, and always leads the overthrow and/or occupation of the hero's kingdom; usually on behalf of the major villains. These villains set up an early personal conflict for the heroes, while also setting up the grander arc by being just a minion in the grand scheme of things. Which one do you think was the best of these? If there's one that fits this archetype that I missed, please let me know. Similarly, if there's someone on this list that you think shouldn't be on this list, please let me know and give your reasons why they shouldn't be on the list. If at least two people mention why they should/shouldn't be on the list, then I'll add/remove them. Note: if the Evil Emperor himself leads the overthrow and/or occupation (such is the case with Ashnard in Path of Radiance and Lekain in Part 3 of Radiant Dawn), the Evil Emperor does not belong on this list as they're a main villain; this is just about the ones that are the main villain for a particular arc. Edited December 19, 2018 by vanguard333 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etrurian emperor Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) I think Ludbeck from Tellius and especially Darrin Laus from FE7 would work really well in this archtype too. Of those listed Narshen is my favorite but I think he's to deeply tied to the Michalis archtype to really work here and he's not really an usurper, merely an enemy general. I think Ludveck would be my favorite usurper because he is seen playing the political game. He doesn't just randomly sends soldiers to attack Elincia but is plotting his revolution for several stages. Its also interesting how he feigns being idealistic about the idea of a forceful king while really just being after power for its own sake. Edited December 10, 2018 by Etrurian emperor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanguard333 Posted December 10, 2018 Author Share Posted December 10, 2018 17 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said: I think Ludbeck from Tellius and especially Darrin Laus from FE7 would work really well in this archtype too. Of those listed Narshen is my favorite but I think he's to deeply tied to the Michalis archtype to really work here and he's not really an usurper, merely an enemy general. I think Ludveck would be my favorite usurper because he is seen playing the political game. He doesn't just randomly sends soldiers to attack Elincia but is plotting his revolution for several stages. Its also interesting how he feigns being idealistic about the idea of a forceful king while really just being after power for its own sake. I had thought of Ludveck, but then I thought that, since he never actually succeeds in overthrowing Elincia, he might not count. What do you think? From the description that I gave, do you think the fact that he never actually gained power should be enough to keep him off the list? I do agree though that he's interesting. I've never played Roy's game; I included Narshen because his character description says, "Led the attack on [Roy's homeland]" and since I am including generals (such as Jarod), I figured that he'd probably count. Thanks for letting me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zihark11 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I think you missed the most vital usurper in Fire emblem history: Senator Lekain of Gaddos. He literally orchestrated war for the entire known world and manipulated 2 whole countries to bend the knee to his doings. He massacred an entire race of people and laid the blame at anothers feet which was believed for 3 whole years. He was the mastermind behind every single incident that occurred in Tellius. If Sephiran didint give up i doubt a lot of that would have happened but it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I'll say Jarod. He's an interesting one, as he's the only one who has essentially already lost, and his role in the plot by the time you finally get to him is of an incredibly desperate man going on what's basically a personal war by that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanguard333 Posted December 10, 2018 Author Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Zihark11 said: I think you missed the most vital usurper in Fire emblem history: Senator Lekain of Gaddos. He literally orchestrated war for the entire known world and manipulated 2 whole countries to bend the knee to his doings. He massacred an entire race of people and laid the blame at anothers feet which was believed for 3 whole years. He was the mastermind behind every single incident that occurred in Tellius. If Sephiran didint give up i doubt a lot of that would have happened but it did. True; but I'm talking more about the disc-one boss kind of Evil Usurpers, and Lekain is technically an Evil Emperor and final villain; given how major he is and how he isn't fought until the endgame of part 4. It's similar to the reasons I didn't list Ashnard: too major. Plus, he's in charge of the guy in charge of Jarod. Lekain really fits under the Evil Emperor archetype, not this. (In fact, in the poll I made for evil emperor villains in FE, I listed Lekain). Edited December 10, 2018 by vanguard333 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Jarrod did nothing wrong But yeah, I do think he's the best. He's basically a good soldier and fighting a guerrilla war is a bitch. I mean, really, what are you gonna do when the populace wont move aside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 One thing I'm gonna hold in favor of Jarod is that he doesn't give a shit about the Black Knight. And that's even after getting curbstomped by him. So it's not like he was just an idiot who didn't understand what he was up against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zihark11 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, vanguard333 said: True; but I'm talking more about the disc-one boss kind of Evil Usurpers, and Lekain is technically an Evil Emperor and final villain; given how major he is and how he isn't fought until the endgame of part 4. It's similar to the reasons I didn't list Ashnard: too major. Plus, he's in charge of the guy in charge of Jarod. Lekain really fits under the Evil Emperor archetype, not this. (In fact, in the poll I made for evil emperor villains in FE, I listed Lekain). Ah i gotcha. that makes a lot more sense then. id probably have to say Jarod then. The rest of them were all pawns in a game while Jarod actually took complete control of the situation and assumed all responsibility for his and his mens actions(not that he had to much choice but he still did and didint take the easy way out). Fought to the very end for what he wanted/believed in, no matter how diabolical it was. Edited December 10, 2018 by Zihark11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 5 hours ago, vanguard333 said: Evil Usurpers: a sort-of disc-one villain that typically begins the plot by being leader of the group that often betrays the king Which Jarod doesn't do, since the whole "overthrow Sanaki" part of Radiant Dawn's story doesn't come about until Part 3. 5 hours ago, vanguard333 said: and always leads the overthrow and occupation of the hero's kingdom Begnion took legal control of Daein after Ashnard was defeated (since Crimea was in no state to do so), and thus there is no "overthrow of the kingdom", just a legally-enforced occupation. So, judging by both this and your own definition, Jarod shouldn't really be on this list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanguard333 Posted December 11, 2018 Author Share Posted December 11, 2018 14 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said: Which Jarod doesn't do, since the whole "overthrow Sanaki" part of Radiant Dawn's story doesn't come about until Part 3. I said, "Often betrays the king"; they don't always. He's not the only example on the list that doesn't. 16 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said: Begnion took legal control of Daein after Ashnard was defeated (since Crimea was in no state to do so), and thus there is no "overthrow of the kingdom", just a legally-enforced occupation. Legal Occupation is still occupation, and his cruel treatment of the Daein citizens definitely wasn't legal. There's no overthrow, but there is occupation. 18 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said: So, judging by both this and your own definition, Jarod shouldn't really be on this list. No, he should. He's a disc-one villain who leads the occupation and is the main villain of part 1 while being a minion of the main villains in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) Quote while being a minion of the main villains in the end Ashera was asleep and Sephiran was doing his job in Begnion, so I doubt that Jarod had anything to do with either of them. Quote He's a disc-one villain who leads the occupation Numida was the one who was in control of Daein, Jarod just enforced it. Edited December 11, 2018 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanguard333 Posted December 11, 2018 Author Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said: Ashera was asleep and Sephiran was doing his job in Begnion, so I doubt that Jarod had anything to do with either of them. I was talking about Lekain. He's a major villain. 2 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said: Numida was the one who was in control of Daein, Jarod just enforced it. Yes, but Numida was the one in Begnion while Jarod was the one in Daein giving orders. Plus, it becomes all Jarod near the end when Numida cuts ties with him and uses him as a scapegoat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geenoble Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, Slumber said: I'll say Jarod. He's an interesting one, as he's the only one who has essentially already lost, and his role in the plot by the time you finally get to him is of an incredibly desperate man going on what's basically a personal war by that point. I think lost is the wrong word, when your up against an army of furries and the fucking black knight I think you're better off just killing yourself at that point. Either way, props to Jarod for being able to live exactly 1 hit from Alondite Black Knight. Edited December 11, 2018 by Geenoble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanguard333 Posted December 19, 2018 Author Share Posted December 19, 2018 So, based on the results so far, Jarod is the clear winner by a landslide, with Narshen and Jiol tied for second, and Desaix and Gangrel tied for third. Thanks everyone for your votes and replies so far. To those of you who voted for Narshen, Jiol, Desaix and Gangrel, could you please give your reasons why in the replies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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