Metroid Prime 4 Development changes to Retro Studios

[The DanMan]

1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

In the last twenty years, the Metroid games released were

• Prime 1
• Fusion (released the same day/week as Prime 1)
• Zero Mission
• Prime 2
• Prime Pinball
• Prime Hunters
• Prime 3
• Other M
• Prime Federation Force
• Samus Returns

Only six out of ten games have prime in the title. And three of those are spinoffs. Pinball has nothing in common with actual metroid games as far as I'm aware, Hunters and Federation Force are...debatably core games. I haven't played the latter but they're shooters with some elements of exploration and depict events pertinent to the Prime trilogy's plot. So I'll be generous in saying five out of six of the Metroid Prime games are core games. But I still don't see what you mean in saying Prime is the main series when it's less than half of the games released even when only focusing on the series history starting with Prime 1.

Okay, I forgot Zero Mission.

But notice that streak there of Prime 2, Prime Pinball, Prime Hunters, and Prime 3? It's almost like the Prime games and name got the biggest push. And as I said, spinoffs still bore the Prime name. Plus (something you even remarked), the only 2D titles to release since Prime 1/Fusion are remakes of the first two games in the series. While Other M is it's divisive oddball self (and oh look, when it came time for a spinoff again guess what style they chose to base things off of and name they used).

Even though I got a couple details wrong, I'm not sure why it's being argued that the Prime games have handily supplanted/replaced what the general gaming public thinks of and comes to expect out of Metroid; why would Prime 4 even be a thing if that wasn't the case?

[smgrinus]

70+ million 3ds units worldwide... One would think it is good business to keep supporting that many potential customers. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

30 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Okay, I forgot Zero Mission.

And Fusion. You only acknowledged Samus Returns and Other M, which you can't seem to bring up without placing "the divisive" in front, as if every Metroid game isn't divisive except for Super and maybe Prime 1.

Anyway yeah, if  you move that goal post from "last twenty years" to Between Prime 1 and Prime 3 and conveniently forget the two mainline titles released between them somebody in that era would possibly say "hey when can we get a sequel to Super Metroid?". Solid argument.

35 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Even though I got a couple details wrong, I'm not sure why it's being argued that the Prime games have handily supplanted/replaced what the general gaming public thinks of and comes to expect out of Metroid; why would Prime 4 even be a thing if that wasn't the case?

You say the "gaming public" only thinks of Metroid games as being the Prime series? That's a bold claim when the classic series had invented a genre that has only grown in popularity. I think when people say the words "Metroidvania" they often remember classic style Metroid is a thing. As for why did Nintendo decide the next Metroid game needed to be Prime 4? I don't know, there's plenty of potential answers. Maybe they thought they could alternate between a classic and a prime game like they did in the early 2000s. 2017 gets a classic style game, 2019 gets a prime game, 2021 gets another classic style game, etc. Your case for the Prime series dominating the public consciousness seems to conveniently forget Samus Returns happened recently.

[The DanMan]

2 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

And Fusion. You only acknowledged Samus Returns and Other M, which you can't seem to bring up without placing "the divisive" in front, as if every Metroid game isn't divisive except for Super and maybe Prime 1.

Anyway yeah, if  you move that goal post from "last twenty years" to Between Prime 1 and Prime 3 and conveniently forget the two mainline titles released between them somebody in that era would possibly say "hey when can we get a sequel to Super Metroid?". Solid argument.

You say the "gaming public" only thinks of Metroid games as being the Prime series? That's a bold claim when the classic series had invented a genre that has only grown in popularity. I think when people say the words "Metroidvania" they often remember classic style Metroid is a thing. As for why did Nintendo decide the next Metroid game needed to be Prime 4? I don't know, there's plenty of potential answers. Maybe they thought they could alternate between a classic and a prime game like they did in the early 2000s. 2017 gets a classic style game, 2019 gets a prime game, 2021 gets another classic style game, etc. Your case for the Prime series dominating the public consciousness seems to conveniently forget Samus Returns happened recently.

Fusion itself got overshadowed by Prime 1 and released in extremely close proximity to it in most regions. And Other M is a whole other level of controversial-- on top of being a weird midquel, very different in gameplay, and in general unlikely to ever get a follow-up.

Sure, people haven't forgotten that 2D Metroid's a thing-- but the fact you were complaining earlier in the thread about the past two 2D Metroid games being remakes honestly pretty much answers your own questions. Classic Metroid is Classic Metroid. It's not going anywhere, and that includes going forwards in a meaningful fashion (IIRC at least one company tried to pitch a new 2D Metroid to Nintendo and got shot down, with MercurySteam themselves initially pitching another remake-- I believe it was Fusion? Either way, the company who wanted to do a remake got roped in while attempts at something new got shot down). 

 

Heck, your original complaint was:

7 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

I'm more than a little hurt with the lack of care shown towards the classic series. Several times over the past year I've asked for a Metroid 5, only to get a response like "why would they make 5 when they haven't finished 4 yet". Implying that they thought I must have been talking about Prime 5 or that the Prime series IS the main series.

...yet you're trying to argue with me that Prime hasn't thoroughly overshadowed the 2D games and done so for a long time.

When it's the entire crux of what you said.

Edited January 26, 2019 by The DanMan

[Zapp Branniglenn]

47 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Sure, people haven't forgotten that 2D Metroid's a thing-- but the fact you were complaining earlier in the thread about the past two 2D Metroid games being remakes honestly pretty much answers your own questions. Classic Metroid is Classic Metroid. It's not going anywhere,

 

Yes.

Quote

...yet you're trying to argue with me that Prime hasn't thoroughly overshadowed the 2D games and done so for a long time.

That's right. These are not contradictory. I want more Metroid, period. I think the classic style is much more risk averse than Prime 4, to a point that their last Metroid game was a great remake of a poor game that even expands on the lore of the original series and foreshadows a potential sequel if you unlock the secret gallery. So in the wake of news that Prime 4 is starting over, I'm lamenting the fact that we have to go on longer waiting for this shooter game when we have no credible news of the next classic style game. And then you came in on an ill-informed tirade about how Prime games are the only Metroid games to begin with. I was correcting you. And now that you understand the errors you've made I think we're done, right?

Edited January 26, 2019 by Glennstavos

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, The DanMan said:

...Except it has been for nearly 20 years? All the spinoffs bore the Prime name-- Hunters, Federation Force, hell remember Prime Pinball? The only Metroid games released since Prime 1 that haven't had the Prime name are the divisive Other M and Samus Returns.

The very well received Zero Mission was released after Prime 1, and that's discounting the also well received Fusion which was released simultaneously with Prime.

EDIT I see this has already been addressed on page 2. Never mind, editing a disclaimer is easier than cutting a quote box on mobile.

9 hours ago, Florete said:

I would actually love a Super Metroid remake. I didn't play that game for the first time until around 2015, and it definitely doesn't control as well as later 2D Metroid games. Pretty much everything else about the game is good to go, but it would still be nice to have an updated Super Metroid.

You're not wrong, Super Metroid is a fantastic, neigh phenomenal game, but it doesn't control as smoothly as later titles. It does control well enough that I'm not eager for a remake though as controls are virtually the only thing they could improve on. Now Metroid Fusion on the other hand absolutely should not get a remake, as some people were suggesting based on the stringer of Samus returns. It's not as good a game as Super (which is no insult, few games are), but it is just as playable now as when it was released.

Of course if they want to remake these two games in 3D, that would be epic and I would be on board but that wouldn't exactly be savvy use of the Metroid engine they already have with Samus returns.

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Maybe they think they're too short and low resources to put on cards? And don't want to make quality digital-only games? IDK. But the casual Metroid fan I am prefers 2D over 3D.

 

While they're at it, could they use the same engine for a Zelda XX: Second Adventure of Link? I'd think that would be very cool, we did get ALttP sequel, a modernized and much much improved sequel to the black sheep of the Zelda franchise would be neat. And the MSR engine I'd think would work given the game would be mostly 2D.

(Also that XX is Roman numeral 20. LoZ 16 was SS, since then we have had ALBW, TH, and BotW, so it would be LoZ 20.)

 

Weren't Retro responsible for the two critically-acclaimed Donkey Kong Country games?

Now that they have the game engine, making a new Metroid game would be trivial. It would basically amount to however much a map designer and group of graphic artists charge. Good Metroidvannia games are hard to make because they require a lot of talent, not necessarily because they're technically challenging games.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Jotari

[Florete]

10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Weren't Retro responsible for the two critically-acclaimed Donkey Kong Country games?

Donkey Kong Country Returns and Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze. Yes, they were made by Retro. TF was released in 2014 for the Wii U and until now we haven't heard anything from them, so what were they doing for 5 years? I suppose they re-released TF on the Switch, but no way that accounts for so much time.

[Ertrick36]

I just was reminded that Retro did the DK games on the Wii U (not by the people in this thread talking about them), which were rather well received.  So maybe my skepticism is a little bit misplaced.

Let me just say, I hope this game will make me love the series again.  I've already had to abandon a few beloved franchises before, the harshest abandonment being Metal Gear.  It'd be really nice if I could get something back for all my losses in the last few years of gaming.

[Interdimensional Observer]

I thought I might have been told by a mod topics about games in development can defy the standard rules concerning necroposting, so I'm posting here.

Apparently, Retro Studios has listed some new job openings.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/04/retro_studios_posts_multiple_job_listings_talks_about_joining_the_nintendo_legacy

Does this mean anything about the current pace of MP4's development? 

[Jedi]

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I thought I might have been told by a mod topics about games in development can defy the standard rules concerning necroposting, so I'm posting here.

Apparently, Retro Studios has listed some new job openings.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/04/retro_studios_posts_multiple_job_listings_talks_about_joining_the_nintendo_legacy

Does this mean anything about the current pace of MP4's development? 

Likely means they're restarting again. Or just now beginning to prep the new development. 

I wouldn't expect this game for quite awhile.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Jedi

[The DanMan]

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I thought I might have been told by a mod topics about games in development can defy the standard rules concerning necroposting, so I'm posting here.

Apparently, Retro Studios has listed some new job openings.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/04/retro_studios_posts_multiple_job_listings_talks_about_joining_the_nintendo_legacy

Does this mean anything about the current pace of MP4's development? 

Considering the listings are for lead art direction and key programming positions, they're likely only just now actually starting development.

I'll be surprised if the game comes out before 2022.

Edited April 27, 2019 by The DanMan

[Interdimensional Observer]

Nothing important, but a little over a month (so not really that long) after listing some job openings, Metroid Prime 4 is still possibly missing an Art Director.:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/06/retro_studios_is_seeking_an_art_director_for_metroid_prime_4

 

And in news unrelated to MP4's development, Andy O'Neil, the technical lead on Metroid Primes 1&2 and lead engineer on Metroid Prime 3, has passed away at the relatively young age of 47.:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/06/metroid_prime_developer_andy_oneil_passes_away_aged_47

May you rest in the paradise of the Chozo, and wherever you want to be.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[Interdimensional Observer]

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/half-of-the-core-metroid-prime-3-team-is-still-at-retro-studios/

Around 27 of the full-time workers on Metroid Prime 3 remain at Retro, so it seems. However, less than ten of the ~40 full-time workers on the first Metroid Prime remain.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer