[DATAMINE] Apparently, we may be having somthing special comming.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Drakhis said:

This is exactly why I think it's great. Because it was harder. Optimizing was harder, but you get rewarded by doing it.

Optimizing is already hard with or without it though. Certain really good skills are very hard to get, merges for 5 star exclusive units are very hard to get without spending money, etc.

[Ice Dragon]

15 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Also, in other FE titles, summoning more units doesn't exist, so you literally cannot control your units' stats.

You can't "control" your units' stats in Heroes, either. Virion [+Atk, -HP] is not the same thing as Virion [+Def, -Spd]. For all practical purposes, they can be treated as completely different units (because they are) that just look the same.

It's no different than having to choose between Rebecca, Wil, and Louise to be your Sniper, except that instead of only 3 choices, you have 255 (12 summonable colorless bow infantry × 21 natures + 3 neutral-locked colorless bow infantry).

[Anacybele]

7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You can't "control" your units' stats in Heroes, either. Virion [+Atk, -HP] is not the same thing as Virion [+Def, -Spd]. For all practical purposes, they can be treated as completely different units (because they are) that just look the same.

You can replace the worse IV Virion with the better IV one. You can't do this in other FE games.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

You can replace the worse IV Virion with the better IV one. You can't do this in other FE games.

You can replace Rebecca with Wil if Rebecca got her stats RNG screwed. And if both of them get screwed, there's still Louise.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You can replace Rebecca with Wil if Rebecca got her stats RNG screwed. And if both of them get screwed, there's still Louise.

And if all of them are screwed, what then? This isn't a problem in Heroes.

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

And if all of them are screwed, what then? This isn't a problem in Heroes.

Then you have the exact same situation that I have with Summer Linde where EVERY. SINGLE. COPY. of her is either -Atk or -Spd and either +HP or +Res. Same situation. Different face.

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Then you have the exact same situation that I have with Summer Linde where EVERY. SINGLE. COPY. of her is either -Atk or -Spd and either +HP or +Res. Same situation. Different face.

Your point is? This just helps my opinion. You can merge those Lindes to delete the flaw when the merge change is added or keep pulling more of her (you do whale). You can't get more of Wil, Louise, or Rebecca. And what if Rebecca has good stats while the other two are screwed, but I don't like her? I can't just get another Wil or Louise. I would in Heroes if they were there.

[Drakhis]

7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Your point is? This just helps my opinion. You can merge those Lindes to delete the flaw when the merge change is added or keep pulling more of her (you do whale). You can't get more of Wil, Louise, or Rebecca. And what if Rebecca has good stats while the other two are screwed, but I don't like her? I can't just get another Wil or Louise. I would in Heroes if they were there.

You can think about it like your in a bigger story mode, and when you're getting a unit, maybe you will get one later in the story that will be stronger. In heroes, you can be like me: I started the game pretty much day one (with another account) and I've never got any good IVs Tiki. I've summoned as many times as possible but I'm not getting her with good IVs. There is still a constraint, it's just not the same. I want to use her and I don't like some other units, but I can't and It's on Heroes. Even whale is just about luck.

But it has nothing to do with the fact that we will be able to see asset and flaw now ^^ Asset and flaw was a hidden feature and now it will be a visible feature.

Nothing more, nothing less. It's a great change, but they could have made it later because it's just a bonus.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Drakhis

[Fabulously Olivier]

16 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

And if all of them are screwed, what then? This isn't a problem in Heroes.

Then you have Rath. The odds of four archers being RNG screwed are low, especially when one is a pre-promote.

[Roflolxp54]

16 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Your point is? This just helps my opinion. You can merge those Lindes to delete the flaw when the merge change is added or keep pulling more of her (you do whale). You can't get more of Wil, Louise, or Rebecca. And what if Rebecca has good stats while the other two are screwed, but I don't like her? I can't just get another Wil or Louise. I would in Heroes if they were there.

At least you can technically savescum for good level ups in the main Fire Emblem games (you can even manipulate the RNG in the GBA ones!). In FEH, you don't have that as an option unless you have literally just started playing FEH or otherwise started a fresh account.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Roflolxp54

[Anacybele]

7 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Then you have Rath. The odds of four archers being RNG screwed are low, especially when one is a pre-promote.

Which brings me to what I just asked about not liking my option. In Heroes, if all these archers are in the game and I don't like Rath or Rebecca, I can try for a better Wil. I can't do this in regular FE games.

I'm done trying to explain this now, I'm tired of repeating it.

[Ice Dragon]

18 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

You can merge those Lindes to delete the flaw when the merge change is added

Deleting the flaw is not the same as changing her asset to +Atk or +Spd.

 

18 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

or keep pulling more of her (you do whale)

Which I cannot do if there is no banner for her or if I am out of budget, just like how you cannot try to pull for another Sniper if Rebecca, Wil, and Louise all ended up getting screwed by the RNG.

 

18 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Your point is?

The same as I started with. Being unable to see assets and flaws is not much different from being unable to see growth rates. You don't need to be able to see them to play the game effectively.

And then you tried to argue that the difference between two different versions of Virion is not the same as two different versions of "Blazing Sword Sniper". "Being able to replace Virion with a different Virion" is no different than "being able to replace Virion with Gordin" or "being able to replace Rebecca with a different Rebecca that happens to be named Wil". You then argued that the main series games give you only a limited number of chances to replace a unit, but Heroes also give you a limit; the difference is that the limit of the first one is determined by how often you can restart the story and the limit of the second one is determined by how often you can pull.

 

56 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Which isn't as easy as being able to see the asset and flaw on screen.

It's not about ease. It's about necessity. The ability to see assets and flaws was not necessary until now. Most games are not transparent about game mechanics that aren't a necessity for the average player.

 

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

In Heroes, if all these archers are in the game and I don't like Rath or Rebecca, I can try for a better Wil. I can't do this in regular FE games.

It's called "restart your save file" or "start from a save point before your level up got screwed".

Edited January 30, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Fabulously Olivier]

Anyway, being RNG screwed in a regular Fire Emblem isn't that big of a deal. You aren't competing against other players for rewards (and RNG stats are the main reason why PvP in Fire Emblem games will always suck). There isn't a need to always have perfect stats.

RNG growths are there to increase replayability and encourage you to adapt. And if that isn't suitable for you, that's why stat boosting items like Energy Powder and Angelic Robes exist.

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's not about ease. It's about necessity. The ability to see assets and flaws was not necessary until now.

And as I said, I disagree. I think it was necessary. I won't say this again.

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's called "restart your save file" or "start from a save point before your level up got screwed".

You do realize that by the time a player would notice their unit being screwed, they'd probably be pretty far in the game, right? Would you want to start completely over just because of that?

Edited January 30, 2019 by Anacybele

[Drakhis]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I think it was necessary. I won't say this again.

I don't understand your definition of necessary. I mean, really. I don't understand.

You can clear the game without good IVs units, why does the fact to be able to see them can change that? I mean, in my core team I have bad IVs unit and I've cleared all LHB and Quests.

So what do you mean by "necessary"?

Edited January 30, 2019 by Drakhis

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Etheus said:

RNG growths are there to increase replayability and encourage you to adapt.

How convenient that this is almost the exact reason given during that one interview for why natures exist in Heroes. I love it when pieces come together so nicely.

 

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Would you want to start completely over just because of that?

Would you want to spend another $80 or several months of saving orbs just to pull for a new copy of a character you got a bad nature on?

[Fabulously Olivier]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

How convenient that this is almost the exact reason given during that one interview for why natures exist in Heroes. I love it when pieces come together so nicely.

 

Would you want to spend another $80 or several months of saving orbs just to pull for a new copy of a character you got a bad nature on?

But let's be real. The real reason why natures exist in Heroes is $. They can spin it any way they want, but that mechanic single-handedly multiplies the desire and ability for hardcore players to whale.

[Interdimensional Observer]

29 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You can replace Rebecca with Wil if Rebecca got her stats RNG screwed. And if both of them get screwed, there's still Louise.

Don't remind me of Wil and Louise. I know Louise thanks to CYL3 has a very solid chance of coming now, but I'm concerned IS will demand she file for a divorce first. And she cannot be without the better Mage General. As for Wil, nothing special in himself, but a nice guy with a nice history with 'becca and Dart.

 

1 minute ago, Etheus said:

RNG growths are there to increase replayability and encourage you to adapt. And if that isn't suitable for you, that's why stat boosting items like Energy Powder and Angelic Robes exist.

Since you mention those, I kinda miss that these don't exist as resources of any kind in this game. I guess if they added a "Skill Alchemy Lab" where you could teach units skills with seals or sacrificing another, they could treat these magical items as resources for it. Want Death Blow? Spend Energy Drops. Want Ward Cavalry? Pony up some Dracoshields and Talismans. Brazen Atk/Def Seraph Robes, Energy Rings and Dracoshields. -Though there is good reason people would disparage adding more resources to the abundance of ones that already exist.

 

 

And speaking of boons/banes, how many characters experience a significant change from having good vs. bad boons/banes? Okay, 6-8 points difference can be big, but I thought I heard here it won't generally change what the unit is made to do.

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Would you want to spend another $80 or several months of saving orbs just to pull for a new copy of a character you got a bad nature on?

Better than having to replay several chapters that you already just did.

[Drakhis]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Better than having to replay several chapters that you already just did.

You must be rich or very patient ^^ If I feel locked because RNG screwed me I would restart the game ^^ (Pretty much what I've done with my first Heroes account)

[Tree]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Better than having to replay several chapters that you already just did.

For a traditional FE game, I'd much rather restart from scratch than purchase the whole game again.

[Ice Dragon]

8 minutes ago, Etheus said:

But let's be real. The real reason why natures exist in Heroes is $. They can spin it any way they want, but that mechanic single-handedly multiplies the desire and ability for hardcore players to whale.

The amount of malice I would assign to them depends on how much they know about the competitive Pokémon community and how much effort players spend to get perfect natures and IVs.

 

6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And speaking of boons/banes, how many characters experience a significant change from having good vs. bad boons/banes? Okay, 6-8 points difference can be big, but I thought I heard here it won't generally change what the unit is made to do.

The most notable difference is between -Atk and +Atk on units with already poor Atk stats and no way to mitigate the difference, especially on characters with a ±4 from neutral on one of those (I'm looking at you, Caeda).

 

6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Better than having to replay several chapters that you already just did.

Fork over $80, then, and I'll play those chapters for you.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Drakhis said:

You must be rich or very patient ^^ If I feel locked because RNG screwed me I would restart the game ^^ (Pretty much what I've done with my first Heroes account)

lol I am not rich at all. I don't even have an income (yet). I do have good patience, I guess.

[Fabulously Olivier]

5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The amount of malice I would assign to them depends on how much they know about the competitive Pokémon community and how much effort players spend to get perfect natures and IVs.

 

The most notable difference is between -Atk and +Atk on units with already poor Atk stats and no way to mitigate the difference, especially on characters with a ±4 from neutral on one of those (I'm looking at you, Caeda).

 

Fork over $80, then, and I'll play those chapters for you.

I'm not even talking about malice. Just reality. And as far as things I hate about Heroes go, natures are one thing I'm ambivalent on.

 

As for Pokemon, I quit playing precisely because its leveling mechanics are the worst in any franchise ever. Natures are bad enough, but when you add them to two far worse mechanics (EVs and IVs), you have a fundamentally broken system that makes competitive play (which should be a dream for something like Pokemon) a nightmare to play and participate in. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

10 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The most notable difference is between -Atk and +Atk on units with already poor Atk stats and no way to mitigate the difference, especially on characters with a ±4 from neutral on one of those (I'm looking at you, Caeda).

Thanks for the tip. In act of gratitude towards her Wing Spear godliness in SD, and being Tsubasa's Mirage, I intend to make one of the half dozen I presently have into 5* once this update possibly happens. And now I know what to avoid and favor when selecting one.