Persona 5 The Royal

[Florete]

Honestly, I'm much more likely to get P5 Scramble than P5 Royal.

Also, when I first saw the news, I thought it said "Persona 5 Scrabble" and I wtf'd.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Persona Warriors? Well, I DID say it'd be scummy for them to port the vanilla version of 5 onto Switch, leaving the complete version exclusive to PS4. So I guess we'll never have to worry about that. Still, I've got quite a few friends whom the Switch is their first console since the Xbox 360 or Playstation 2, so I was hoping they'd get a chance to play Persona 5. That's a shame. A lot of them were ready and willing once they picked up this "edgy Joker kid" in Smash. I guess we'll just keep letting each other borrow Playstation 4s to play these exclusive games.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Glennstavos

[B.Leu]

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Persona 4 vanilla released on July 10th 2008 (in Japan), Strange Journey vanilla released on October 8th, 2009. The original Devil Survivor released between these two dates, on January 15th 2009.

 

I admittedly haven't finished original SJ, but from the ~half of it I've played (up meeting Jack's Squad), it didn't seem like there was a tonal shift there to me. And from what I know already of the Law and Chaos endings, they still seem perfectly bleak.

Although admittedly, just going off of some instances of bleakness might not be enough. The Bootes experiments where demons just keep repeating they did good things by torturing and killing humans is very bleak. Yet Apocalypse, a game definitely a victim of the tonal shift, begins the game by having two old mentors' blood splatter everywhere. 

That brings me to a problem created by the tonal shift. SMT is keeping bleak ("dark") elements to it, and yet concurrently including the silly and overly hopeful. Apo has that opening, but it also has that dress up in makeup scene much later to name a particularly awful instance. The result is a disparate game that can't decide what it truly is. And it is arguable whether this is better than having SMT shed its bleakness altogether, if the lighthearted and optimistic are to remain a part of the franchise moving forward.

Persona 4 truly was the root of all evil then. More seriously, that's actually interesting to see they actually varied. Thank you.

So you did not finished SJ ? Huh, I feel kind of dumb, but I'll put it in spoiler just in case. Because well, it's spoilers for everything in SJ  and SJR.

 

Strange Journey start with establishing one thing, the world is utterly screwed, poverty, polution, crime rate, everything of the sort, is high, foods and ressources is low, and peace is at this to break. To the point where, I simplify, a form of Gaia is starting to engulf the world over it, and yet the game is trying to tell me with the new found bias for a weird kind of Neutral ending, to believe in humanity to save the world and carry on the original mission. (That's what I meant when I said 'started started')
As if, even if that would work, as if that would resolve the polution, the lack of food and ressources. You know, the problems that would be solved by going Law and Chaos by using the mcguffin.

I liked Redux, because it come out openly and directly challenge the ending that you choosen with (Two out of three) an obvious argument presented by it's new character. She's not perfect, but I believe she does her job. Neutral gets hit by this the hardest by saying, 'Yes, it's incredibly stupid and naive to think it would work.'
Of freaking course humanity would grow complacent after Normal Neutral ending.
The New Neutral is probably the bleakest neutral ending of the entire franchise, and it feels like karma after, I apologize for my french and quote from 4chan, the utter wankfest of 'muh humanity' that have been going on far too long. All the while correcting the insults toward Law and Chaos, the representatives gets a character development, they don't give up their ideals, but they become more flexible, more responsible. They realize that they were just giving the 'hot potato' so to speak to the worst person.

For the record, you can facepalm at Demeter's design, even if she is kawai as all hell.
Zeus is cool imo, it's very much like Apo's Odin, by making obscure references of it's mythology.

What you said about Apo and DSO's 8th rings so true, I have no words. Apo is more troubling, it is a full game after all. :/
Dagda is right in everything he say, but as many player pointed out, he comes across as edgy and contrarian at time, meanwhile' your friends' are retarded and doesn't bring really anything to the table other than friendship and muh humanity.

Jarin in his blog did talk about a certain brillance, but did the writers really intented to do that ? To talk about the falling of the hobbesian world and all ?

At least you got the choice to do the most awesome thing since the True Demon Ending.

2 hours ago, Water Mage said:

 and it’s fandom is guilty of gatekeeping.

When people talk about that particuliar part of the fandom, it's in these topics that I feel somewhat targeted, I realize that I may come across as this sometime, especially when I express frustration. it's troubling and humbing at the same time. It doesn't help that my writing is not stellar. :/
(And that shockingly, I'm not a perfect being.)

But it won't stop me from playing the games, enjoying them, and criticizing them. I do like SMTSJ, IV, Apo, and the Personas, but there's things that I think are wrong about them, and I will point them out. Because, I feel like they have obvious flaws, and as Roland said, Persona gets all the fun toys, while SMT and all the other franchises don't.

Just thinking out loud. Frustration is frustrating. Reflecting upon the self is refreshing.

...The strenght to face one's self has blah blah blah.

Edited April 25, 2019 by B.Leu

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, B.Leu said:

So you did not finished SJ ?

Yeah, I keep telling myself I should get to that, but I don't. And it didn't buy it until years afters its release, fairly close the announcement of Redux actually.  Well I can put that in my will some day if I need to.

I had years ago spoiled myself on the general details of its base plot and endings, I was in a "spoil myself" mood back then, thinking I would never play it. 

 

2 hours ago, B.Leu said:

Zeus is cool imo, it's very much like Apo's Odin, by making obscure references of it's mythology.

Good to hear they did Zeus justice. Despite Dagdar being rather visually not true to his Celtic origins according to what I've heard, Odin was closer to the Loki approach to demon design and referencing, as opposed to the Rama approach (you owe Vaishnavas around the world and me an apology Atlus for how inaccurate and hideous he is).

 

2 hours ago, B.Leu said:

Dagda is right in everything he say, but as many player pointed out, he comes across as edgy and contrarian at time, meanwhile' your friends' are retarded and doesn't bring really anything to the table other than friendship and muh humanity.

 

Because I had time...

Spoiler

Godslayer - godslayer

You're my godslayer.

God - god - god

Guh - guh - gah - gah - god

god - oh - God!

You've ain't got no time

for friends put you in a bind.

Godslayer - godslayer 

Slayah - slayah - slay

Slayah - slayah - slay

You're my godslayer.

Mother is sham

and your life is in my hands.

Guh - guh - god - god

Slaya gonna slay

Krishna gonna play.

Godslayer! - Godslayer!

A new world is my plan

I'll make you a wo-man.

Dagda?: Kiss me I'm Scottish!

....

 

 

You're my ****ing Godslayer.

Spoiler

"Dagda?" is Danu's new Dagda, who was dumb enough to interrupt the "rap for an audience of one".

 

 

2 hours ago, B.Leu said:

Persona gets all the fun toys, while SMT and all the other franchises don't.

And to think this once wasn't the case.

You had until ~2009, this for the catalog of SMT including main games:

Spoiler

1. Megami Tensei (1987)
2. Megami Tensei II (1990)
3. Kyuyaku Megami Tensei I & II (remakes of MT I & II, 1995)
4. Shin Megami Tensei (1992, and a GBA port in 2003)
5. Shin Megami Tensei II (1994, and a GBA port in 2003)
6. Shin Megami Tensei If... (1994)
7. Last Bible (1992)
8. Last Bible II (1993)
9. Last Bible III (1995)
10. Another Bible (1995)
11. Bible Special (1995)
12. Majin Tensei (1994)
13. Majin Tensei II: Spiral Nemesis (1995)
14. Jack Bros. (1995)
15. Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner (1995)
16. Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers (1997, enhanced ported to the 3DS in 2012)
17. Giten Megami Tensei: Tokyo Mokushiroku (1999) (aka the sex scenes game)
18. DemiKids Red and Black Books (2000)
19. DemiKids White Book (2001)
20. DemiKids Light and Dark (2002)
21. Demikids Fire and Ice Books (2003)
22. Demikids Messiah Riser (2004)
23. Shin Megami Tensei NINE (2002)
24. Shin Megami Tensei III (with the Nocturne Maniax update we know and love as the Nocturne comparable to a FES/Golden/Royal perhaps- never played Persona.) (2003, Nocturne Maniax was 2004)
25. Digital Devil Saga (2004)
26. Digital Devil Saga II (2005)
27. Raidou Kuzunoha vs. the Soulless Army (2006)
28. Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abbadon (2008)
29. Shin Megami Tensei: IMAGINE (2007)
30. Devil Survivor (and the Overclock 2011 enhanced port)
31. Strange Journey (and its enhanced Redux port last year)
32. Devil Survivor II (and its enhanced Record Breaker port in 2015)
33. SMTIV (2014)
34. SMTIV: Apocalypse (2016)

...Not to mention Persona itself started as Megami Ibunroku: Persona.

But since Persona took off, about a decade ago with P4, SMT spinoffs have declined. To be fair, production costs for games has gone up in that time, some of these smaller spinoffs would not be possible in the present developmental environment. Not to mention SMT dried up from 1996-2002 this shows. And I doubt we'd have gotten the DS + SJ ports were it not for the 3DS being a direct successor to the DS so they likely didn't have to internally structurally change things all that much.

Still wishfully hoping for a Nocturne remake sooner or later on Switch. A graphical update to HD, some more demons, the ability to turn on-off Fiend fusion (and maybe the ability to Sacrifice Fusion on them even if their designated Kagutsuchi Phase is not Full), additional difficulties, fix leveling have a negative impact on magic damage later on, a skill storage so I can learn everything from Magatama without a worry, and perhaps some dungeon tweaks. I can overlook a tonal change, but keep this YHVH- who is the Great Will, who Lucifer truly opposes independently- different from the Apocalypse one. Dante from Devil May Cry can substituted for Joker an SMT protag and I won't mind.

 

9 hours ago, B.Leu said:

Record Breaker screwed up my favorite ending. As if the original didn't seemed biased enough with their time travel ending where everything is happy for everyone.

Forgot to ask before, was it AO's ending which got messed with? -He was my original avi on this site for a reason. 

 

5 hours ago, Water Mage said:

and it’s fandom is guilty of gatekeeping.

How so of SMT? Examples?

Edited April 26, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[Water Mage]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

How so of SMT? Examples?

Do I really need to explain it? How many SMT fans look down on people who got into SMT through Persona?

[henrymidfields]

Still no word about Naoto or the Shadow Operatives? If there is one thing that hasn't been all that discussed but nevertheless needs to be so, is the lack of Naoto and the Shaow Operative's involvement with the story in P5 proper.

When I read the story for Persona 5, it bothered me that, despite the higher level of stakes and publicity across Japan, neither Naoto nor the Shadow Operatives had any involvement in the story. I know that past mainline Persona games did not introduce past characters perhapst to allow newcomers, or to have freedom in the story-writing, but they should have made an exception for P5, or at least they should make an exception this time.

Spoiler

 

Naoto's P5R social link could be coming to terms with the National Police Agency's hypocrisy and misogyny, and the Conspiracy-aligned media's deceit and propaganda, and how she keeps herself from adopting a jaded attitude stemming from both. Mitsuru's P5R social link could be her struggle to keep the Shadow Operatives out of trouble, following orders from the Tokyo Metropolitan Police, while maintaining her integrity. Alternately, both could be more involved with finding out what actually happened when Ren/Akira was arrested and decided to vindicate the Phanthom Thieves, only to be disgraced by the Japanese government - showcasing that status and fame are no guarantee for security or political support.

(And after December, Naoto brings up past cases where the Conspiracy was guilty of, and reveals that her parents (who apparently died in a car accident) were the first victims of the mental shutdown. Turned out, they were the ones who first found out Shido's corrupt activities.)

 

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by henrymidfields

[B.Leu]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Yeah, I keep telling myself I should get to that, but I don't. And it didn't buy it until years afters its release, fairly close the announcement of Redux actually.  Well I can put that in my will some day if I need to.

I had years ago spoiled myself on the general details of its base plot and endings, I was in a "spoil myself" mood back then, thinking I would never play it. 

 

Good to hear they did Zeus justice. Despite Dagdar being rather visually not true to his Celtic origins according to what I've heard, Odin was closer to the Loki approach to demon design and referencing, as opposed to the Rama approach (you owe Vaishnavas around the world and me an apology Atlus for how inaccurate and hideous he is).

 

Because I had time...

  Reveal hidden contents

Godslayer - godslayer

You're my godslayer.

God - god - god

Guh - guh - gah - gah - god

god - oh - God!

You've ain't got no time

for friends put you in a bind.

Godslayer - godslayer 

Slayah - slayah - slay

Slayah - slayah - slay

You're my godslayer.

Mother is sham

and your life is in my hands.

Guh - guh - god - god

Slaya gonna slay

Krishna gonna play.

Godslayer! - Godslayer!

A new world is my plan

I'll make you a wo-man.

Dagda?: Kiss me I'm Scottish!

....

 

 

You're my ****ing Godslayer.

  Reveal hidden contents

"Dagda?" is Danu's new Dagda, who was dumb enough to interrupt the "rap for an audience of one".

 

 

And to think this once wasn't the case.

You had until ~2009, this for the catalog of SMT including main games:

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Megami Tensei (1987)
2. Megami Tensei II (1990)
3. Kyuyaku Megami Tensei I & II (remakes of MT I & II, 1995)
4. Shin Megami Tensei (1992, and a GBA port in 2003)
5. Shin Megami Tensei II (1994, and a GBA port in 2003)
6. Shin Megami Tensei If... (1994)
7. Last Bible (1992)
8. Last Bible II (1993)
9. Last Bible III (1995)
10. Another Bible (1995)
11. Bible Special (1995)
12. Majin Tensei (1994)
13. Majin Tensei II: Spiral Nemesis (1995)
14. Jack Bros. (1995)
15. Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner (1995)
16. Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers (1997, enhanced ported to the 3DS in 2012)
17. Giten Megami Tensei: Tokyo Mokushiroku (1999) (aka the sex scenes game)
18. DemiKids Red and Black Books (2000)
19. DemiKids White Book (2001)
20. DemiKids Light and Dark (2002)
21. Demikids Fire and Ice Books (2003)
22. Demikids Messiah Riser (2004)
23. Shin Megami Tensei NINE (2002)
24. Shin Megami Tensei III (with the Nocturne Maniax update we know and love as the Nocturne comparable to a FES/Golden/Royal perhaps- never played Persona.) (2003, Nocturne Maniax was 2004)
25. Digital Devil Saga (2004)
26. Digital Devil Saga II (2005)
27. Raidou Kuzunoha vs. the Soulless Army (2006)
28. Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abbadon (2008)
29. Shin Megami Tensei: IMAGINE (2007)
30. Devil Survivor (and the Overclock 2011 enhanced port)
31. Strange Journey (and its enhanced Redux port last year)
32. Devil Survivor II (and its enhanced Record Breaker port in 2015)
33. SMTIV (2014)
34. SMTIV: Apocalypse (2016)

...Not to mention Persona itself started as Megami Ibunroku: Persona.

But since Persona took off, about a decade ago with P4, SMT spinoffs have declined. To be fair, production costs for games has gone up in that time, some of these smaller spinoffs would not be possible in the present developmental environment. Not to mention SMT dried up from 1996-2002 this shows. And I doubt we'd have gotten the DS + SJ ports were it not for the 3DS being a direct successor to the DS so they likely didn't have to internally structurally change things all that much.

Still wishfully hoping for a Nocturne remake sooner or later on Switch. A graphical update to HD, some more demons, the ability to turn on-off Fiend fusion (and maybe the ability to Sacrifice Fusion on them even if their designated Kagutsuchi Phase is not Full), additional difficulties, fix leveling have a negative impact on magic damage later on, a skill storage so I can learn everything from Magatama without a worry, and perhaps some dungeon tweaks. I can overlook a tonal change, but keep this YHVH- who is the Great Will, who Lucifer truly opposes independently- different from the Apocalypse one. Dante from Devil May Cry can substituted for Joker an SMT protag and I won't mind.

 

Forgot to ask before, was it AO's ending which got messed with? -He was my original avi on this site for a reason. 

Personally, if I knew I'll never have a game, or that I won't have it before years, I just spoil myself with LPs. Don't feel bad.
...accidental spoilers due to my own curiosity or lack of luck not included.

Hmmm, me think Dagda's looks in Apo is because, like I said, what he says he true, he know everything, his keikaku, blah blah. it's either because he think himself as a puppet, which he is, or his references of Nanashi being his 'puppet', which he is too, to an extent.
Still doesn't make a lick of a sense but hey, same with Rama. Not all the demons can have good or inteligent design. Remember Vishnu from Persona 1 ? He was cool, never understood why he looked like that.
I want to like Dagda more than I do, but your rap pretty much got his a big part of his character right, alas. Actually got a got laugh at it, thanks man. :p

Fair warning about Zeus' design, it's really obscure do understand. I get the connections with Chronos, for the rest, I had to look it up. The people who did not understand Doi's Odin were even more lost. Which is weird because I think Doi's Odin is easy to understand. I can understand that people don't like it... but if I frankly believe it's better than the purple guy from before, and it was about time they moved on a better design.
If Zeus was still his... 'Thunder ball with face form' or his classic 'old dude with a lightning-bolt in a hand', I would've been disappointed.

Oh and yeah about Record Breaker, it was indeed AO's ending. Seriously, his ending and character was just so good. It wasn't the Daichi ending of 'We're gonna convince everyone to timetravel to the start of the week, except we're gonna 'fix' everything and everyone's problems, nulify everyone's development, ignore the problems that society have, and we're going to forgot each other.'

Nocturne did it first, but at least it had the decency of telling 'Yeah, huh, you actually have to face concequences for that, because you know you kind of pissed on a facet of God. Don't worry, you still have your powers. Also, balls of steel son.'

I miss the old Great Will, really I do. That really screwed up Apo...and IV too. Lucifer from IV is clearly a different character from the 'real' Lucifer we know and love, but I actually did liked him, he was more of a jerk, yeah, but he wasn't completly heartless, and got a neat character development in his ending.

You are joking about Joker being into the mix, but I don't find something like that improbable at all. :p
Aleph would be really cool, but it would kick that one theory down, that I actually like, and Dante was so freaking cool. What about Vergil ? Eh.

Oh ! DMC5 Dante !

1 minute ago, Water Mage said:

Do I really need to explain it? How many SMT fans look down on people who got into SMT through Persona?

 I know a lot of people who got into SMT thanks to Persona, and I have nothing against them. The more the merrier.

I'm annoyed at Atlus, not them. That's just mean-spririted.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Water Mage said:

Do I really need to explain it? How many SMT fans look down on people who got into SMT through Persona?

Well those "purists" are a little too prejudiced then. Not everyone can leap cold turkey into something, or stumbles on it before something else. Persona from what I know of the gameplay makes a fair transition to SMT for the wary.

 

1 hour ago, B.Leu said:

Lucifer from IV is clearly a different character from the 'real' Lucifer we know and love, but I actually did liked him, he was more of a jerk, yeah, but he wasn't completly heartless, and got a neat character development in his ending.

He was better than Merkabah, who should've explained a little something sooner than just before you're about to do it.

My biggest problem with Lucifer was his redesign. Middle Aged Gay Gangsta Boss Pimp with a Tumor was not very appealing to say the least. Although earlier SMT might have been too good to him with his designs, the fallen angel one was fierce, serious, and a little twisted, but not ugly. And then there was beautiful angelic design, capturing an ideal of the human form, with majestic wings, a face of calm- or arrogance, with contrast from that orange hair; only two slender, curving horns rising from his locks indicative of his fallen nature.

And Lucifer I think has always been cold, he doesn't love humanity as anything more than a means to his end. The difference is while the angels have seethed with contempt and arrogance, Lucifer is more diplomatic in his conversations with the player until he is pressed to be angry and has no more time for games and niceties. Lucifer can thus feel like a much nicer guy than he actually is beneath the surface. The Angels being more unified hurts too, anything a Principality does can likely be traced back to a direct order from on high. Lucifer never ordered an Oni to eat that human over there, though he never did anything to stop it either, despite it hurting the reputation of Chaos in the minds of most humans. These are the mixed results of his often hands-off and Chaos-suited approach to things.

 

51 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

You are joking about Joker being into the mix, but I don't find something like that improbable at all. :p
Aleph would be really cool, but it would kick that one theory down, that I actually like, and Dante was so freaking cool. What about Vergil ? Eh.

Aleph should probably stay out I agree because of that theory. And I have nothing against Dante, I've never played DMC, I was just thinking Atlus might not ask Capcom for the rights again or that they'd give them up. Though I did find him a very good unit and used him through the little that remained of the game. All they need in a hypothetical remake is to upgrade his Son's Oath passive like they did his replacement Raidou's Raidou the Aeon passive- which is to say tacking Pierce on top of the 1.5 damage multiplier.

 

52 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

Nocturne did it first, but at least it had the decency of telling 'Yeah, huh, you actually have to face concequences for that, because you know you kind of pissed on a facet of God. Don't worry, you still have your powers. Also, balls of steel son.'

Referring to original DS2 Daichi Restorer ending, even if you do it with everyone recruited, I thought Kirby Totem got a little angry with you.

And interesting you're drawing the comparison between DS2 and Nocturne, since I consider them to use the same modified Alignment system, different from the one used in SMTs I, II, SJ, IV, and DS1. To break it down:

Spoiler

What determines what is what alignment in the system? 

Answer: Who is the dominant figure ruling the world, and what do they think of your choice? I call this dominant figure the "Law Authority", because their desires are the daily "laws" of the world. What they want/wholeheartedly approve of is Law. What they hate and oppose at all costs is Chaos. What they have issues with but are willing to bend to, is Neutral. 

 

Nocturne:

The Law Authority- The Great Will

Law: All Three Reasons, The Great Will has declared the world will be reborn if it will be at all through a Reason. What the contents of the Reason are, matters not to them.

• It's why the Archangels joined Yosuga, He did not order them into preaching communalism for once, so they grabbed some beers and decided to party hard Social Darwinism style for a change. They ended up being so drunk they forgot the whole experience and stumbled into the DDS verse thinking they were still establishing the Millennium Kingdom in II's Tokyo.

Chaos: True Demon Ending- you've sided with Lucifer against The Great Will and destroy their Vortex World with plans to bring the war to Them. You are Their enemy!

Neutral: Restorer- The Great Will isn't happy as Lucifier warns you, but they went through with making it anyhow. Since III pre-Nocturne Maniax lacked the TDE, this might have been as close as they got to a Chaos on my modified system.

Neutral or off the spectrum: Pathetic (you could call it Normal- but that is spinning it nicely) Demon Ending- You're too indecisive and can't decide anything. The Great Will is fine with leaving the Vortex World as is, perhaps a little pitiful. And for Lucifer, he who opposes TGW with all his being, this is a world fit for demons, albeit you didn't defy TGW like he wanted.

 

Devil Survivor 2:

The Law Authority: Polaris

Law: Ronaldo and Yamato- This is following the system Polaris put in place if someone defied his plans to void the world. He approves of the defiance no problem here, because it comes with solution he approves of, which he will enact and then monitor as still-ruler of the multiverse.

Neutral: Restorer- You plan to restore the world Polaris found stagnant and in need of replacement or radical reform for continued evolution. He is very doubtful you'll succeed in fixing that, but he grudging goes ahead, knowing he is still in control and could attack again if need be.

Chaos: Liberation and Kingmaker- WARNING! HUMANS ARE TRYING TO KILL ME! AND ALCOR IS ATTEMPTING A COUP? ACTIVATING FULL THIRD PHASE POWER!

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

My exposure to SMT was not from Persona. It was from the announcement of an SMT X Fire Emblem crossover. And all I got from THAT is this lousy T-Shirt and a Persona-Lite game for the Wii U. I wonder what SMT elitists have to say about them apples.

jk my first SMT game actually ended up being Persona 3 FES like a year later. Didn't even know SMT and Persona were related, I was just recommended the game. Pretty funny that I was playing a game simulating high school when it was during the summer vacation after graduating high school. I was a certified pro at that point.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Glennstavos

[B.Leu]

On 26/04/2019 at 7:30 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

He was better than Merkabah, who should've explained a little something sooner than just before you're about to do it.

My biggest problem with Lucifer was his redesign. Middle Aged Gay Gangsta Boss Pimp with a Tumor was not very appealing to say the least. Although earlier SMT might have been too good to him with his designs, the fallen angel one was fierce, serious, and a little twisted, but not ugly. And then there was beautiful angelic design, capturing an ideal of the human form, with majestic wings, a face of calm- or arrogance, with contrast from that orange hair; only two slender, curving horns rising from his locks indicative of his fallen nature.

And Lucifer I think has always been cold, he doesn't love humanity as anything more than a means to his end. The difference is while the angels have seethed with contempt and arrogance, Lucifer is more diplomatic in his conversations with the player until he is pressed to be angry and has no more time for games and niceties. Lucifer can thus feel like a much nicer guy than he actually is beneath the surface. The Angels being more unified hurts too, anything a Principality does can likely be traced back to a direct order from on high. Lucifer never ordered an Oni to eat that human over there, though he never did anything to stop it either, despite it hurting the reputation of Chaos in the minds of most humans. These are the mixed results of his often hands-off and Chaos-suited approach to things.

 

Aleph should probably stay out I agree because of that theory. And I have nothing against Dante, I've never played DMC, I was just thinking Atlus might not ask Capcom for the rights again or that they'd give them up. Though I did find him a very good unit and used him through the little that remained of the game. All they need in a hypothetical remake is to upgrade his Son's Oath passive like they did his replacement Raidou's Raidou the Aeon passive- which is to say tacking Pierce on top of the 1.5 damage multiplier.

 

Referring to original DS2 Daichi Restorer ending, even if you do it with everyone recruited, I thought Kirby Totem got a little angry with you.

And interesting you're drawing the comparison between DS2 and Nocturne, since I consider them to use the same modified Alignment system, different from the one used in SMTs I, II, SJ, IV, and DS1. To break it down:

  Reveal hidden contents

What determines what is what alignment in the system? 

Answer: Who is the dominant figure ruling the world, and what do they think of your choice? I call this dominant figure the "Law Authority", because their desires are the daily "laws" of the world. What they want/wholeheartedly approve of is Law. What they hate and oppose at all costs is Chaos. What they have issues with but are willing to bend to, is Neutral. 

 

Nocturne:

The Law Authority- The Great Will

Law: All Three Reasons, The Great Will has declared the world will be reborn if it will be at all through a Reason. What the contents of the Reason are, matters not to them.

• It's why the Archangels joined Yosuga, He did not order them into preaching communalism for once, so they grabbed some beers and decided to party hard Social Darwinism style for a change. They ended up being so drunk they forgot the whole experience and stumbled into the DDS verse thinking they were still establishing the Millennium Kingdom in II's Tokyo.

Chaos: True Demon Ending- you've sided with Lucifer against The Great Will and destroy their Vortex World with plans to bring the war to Them. You are Their enemy!

Neutral: Restorer- The Great Will isn't happy as Lucifier warns you, but they went through with making it anyhow. Since III pre-Nocturne Maniax lacked the TDE, this might have been as close as they got to a Chaos on my modified system.

Neutral or off the spectrum: Pathetic (you could call it Normal- but that is spinning it nicely) Demon Ending- You're too indecisive and can't decide anything. The Great Will is fine with leaving the Vortex World as is, perhaps a little pitiful. And for Lucifer, he who opposes TGW with all his being, this is a world fit for demons, albeit you didn't defy TGW like he wanted.

 

Devil Survivor 2:

The Law Authority: Polaris

Law: Ronaldo and Yamato- This is following the system Polaris put in place if someone defied his plans to void the world. He approves of the defiance no problem here, because it comes with solution he approves of, which he will enact and then monitor as still-ruler of the multiverse.

Neutral: Restorer- You plan to restore the world Polaris found stagnant and in need of replacement or radical reform for continued evolution. He is very doubtful you'll succeed in fixing that, but he grudging goes ahead, knowing he is still in control and could attack again if need be.

Chaos: Liberation and Kingmaker- WARNING! HUMANS ARE TRYING TO KILL ME! AND ALCOR IS ATTEMPTING A COUP? ACTIVATING FULL THIRD PHASE POWER!

 

It's hard to tell if Merkabath was honest with you or not, his final form seems to show as what he truly is, a double-faced monster. I liked that detail so damn much.

Funny thing is, it took me way too much time to make any connections to DIO. And too much to Gold Experience. (Yes, I know that 'Ganstar' is not Jojo originally, but still.)
Eeeh, I agree,  like I said it's not the Lucifer I knew and love, but I like it nonetheless. And then Apo give him a jerkass ball. As well as a cool weird throne, because why not.
... It was fabulous wearing his clothes in IV.

Lucifer's original designs is a work of art and hype, no words against that for me. It doesn't even need an update imo.
You think so ? Well, Lucifer's personality has always been a matter of opinion and interpretation, it doesn't help that his personality sorta change from game to game. Unlike Yellow Mangs who is always the same kind of dude. I'm not talking about DSO's. Speaking of DSO, or rather DS, Lucifer is downright edgy as a bonus boss.

To me, Lucifer is a pragmatic overlord, always watching on the side until truly needed, testing the water and people, having various degrees such as 'Detecting protagonist and Chaos Hero', 'Hiding in plain sight' and 'Manager to my new general' (and, 'why does my daughter have bigger breasts than me' also 'potentialy having a baby in literaly seconds'). He never truly seem angry with you unless you directly join his direct ennemy, with his reaction boiling down to 'Wtf would you want that for you and the world ?' If you pick Neutral, he is at worst disappointed, but respect your choice, and sometime compliment you for carving your own path. Recently, you have a reminder of that part of his personality in SJR New Law of all thing.
To me, him letting a demon do evil is not really a problem or his problem, rather, it's a problem that an individual cause to other(s) individual, which may or may not make things worse. It show the potential falling of Chaos.
... I admit that my opinions miiiiiight be biased because of SMTII and III.

The problem with Angels, and so Law, is that in most games, they believe that what they do is His will, and in SMTII and SJ, it is shown to be false in what could be possibly the worst way possible. It have it's advantages, but it shows the possible falling of Law as well as blind obedience. They are still demons, who believe themselves to not be demons and don't think for themselves at all, and the ones who do might end up screwing things up. Interestingly, SMTIV's Lucifer seem downright saddened by that when presented with an extreme example.

Who care about Marshallow Star God or best boy Innocent Lucifer ? You used Bite Ze Dusto to save your nakama, muh humanity, made their life easier, re established the status quo. The memories of the lessons learned along the way after facing hardship ? Legimately facing the future without deus ex machina or bullcrap about 'The Theme the game' ? Questions about society and the world as a whole ? Changing it ? Discussions about philosophy and point of views ? Who gives a crap, amirite ?
This is why I could not take the plot of Persona 4 that seriously, or Persona 5 for that matter. Just let me buy a nuclear head to put in mementos and be done with it. No need to bring one of the name of one of the coolest demons in the mud to save christmas.... It was epic, but the friendship and the shallowness of it all killed a part the epicness. Showing favoritism toward the stupid theme(s) instead of the actual writing and fantastical elements of the actualy plot causes glaring problems.

Yellow Diamond Head was always like that, a control freak (and a 'funny' guy), no matter what you do, it's a sin, the question is how big it is and how big the boom will be. Except when it's what he wants as you pointed out. Also, big up for your description of Yosuga. :p
It's funny at first I thought they were from SMTII instead, but it's only years back in the past that I thought it could be SMTIII.
Polaris too, but Polaris is an alien, who become powered by Deus Ex Re Update in Record Breaker. Seriously, the guy that you kill and replace with a better guy, had a plan for that, that fixes everything for him. Somehow. Bugger. That. Poopoo.

And yeah, glad you noticed too, it's very interesting to see that DS2 and SMT3 actually have a lot in common.

[Jingle Jangle]

https://www.siliconera.com/2019/05/07/persona-5s-lead-confidant-planner-daiki-itoh-revealed-as-the-director-of-persona-5-royal/

https://personacentral.com/persona-5-royal-details/

New director and producer for P5R. The same person that supervised P4 Golden, that's sending some mixed signals for me.

Quote

Kasumi adds to the perspectives and values in the story, and adds more depth to the existing characters. She has been implemented to naturally blend into the story. As you proceed in the game, you will see a different side of her from the teaser PV. She will develop through her Confidant story.

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If you have save data from P5, you will gain some kind of bonus. There is no carrying over.

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There is a scene where the mysterious new character sleeps in the same bed with the protagonist.

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Jingle Jangle

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I'm holding out hope that having P5 save data unlocks the benefits of NG+. Just let people challenge the superboss without having to play the game a third time. Like how when a game is remastered and had an unlockable difficulty setting, the remaster has it pre-unlocked.

15 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

There is a scene where the mysterious new character sleeps in the same bed with the protagonist.

That COULD have been Yusuke, but the writers are cowards.

[Tryhard]

I've been playing through Persona 5 again recently (due to loss of save through PS4 hard drive corruption with a 98% compendium save and no cloud save... feel my pain) and I have a feeling some of the confidant abilities are going to be changed, because Ohya is a waste, or perhaps more given to ones like Judgement. A lot of them are relatively hit or miss.

wouldn't mind a combat buff to yusuke late game as well

Edited May 8, 2019 by Tryhard

[Jingle Jangle]

4 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

I'm holding out hope that having P5 save data unlocks the benefits of NG+. Just let people challenge the superboss without having to play the game a third time. Like how when a game is remastered and had an unlockable difficulty setting, the remaster has it pre-unlocked.

That COULD have been Yusuke, but the writers are cowards.

NG+ could be neat, or a means of skipping to the new content. I never saw Yusuke as gay, just a guy that isn't interested in relationships.

4 hours ago, Tryhard said:

I've been playing through Persona 5 again recently (due to loss of save through PS4 hard drive corruption with a 98% compendium save and no cloud save... feel my pain) and I have a feeling some of the confidant abilities are going to be changed, because Ohya is a waste, or perhaps more given to ones like Judgement. A lot of them are relatively hit or miss.

wouldn't mind a combat buff to yusuke late game as well

Ohya needs to have more enticing abilities. Reducing alert meter penalty means little, one tried to sprint through everything. Iwai is on my list too. At the end the game, why use a gun when I can nuke shadows? Granted this is was Atlus first time with the system, but more can be done to balance them.

[Etrurian emperor]

15 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

That COULD have been Yusuke, but the writers are cowards.

I dunno. There's someone veeeery interested in Joker's sleeping habits and its not Yusuke. 

 

 

Spoiler

https://i.imgtc.com/jbEJSrh.jpg

 

[Jingle Jangle]

Kasumi's persona is Cinderella. Something tells me she's going to have a lot of family issues. Also there was no blood when she ripped off her mask. Wonder where Atlus is going with this?