The Dawn Brigade

[Lord Raven]

How dare I prefer a guy who has a bigger end-game role to one that is "better" on the easiest maps in the entire game.

Or in every other map in the entire game as well.

Rolf speeds up fairly quick. He's got decent speed growths. He does a lot MORE damage per hit, saving you money, something the Mercs are short on for quite awhile.

No, when he gets up to speed, that's when he saves you money. And unless you let him solo every single map, he won't get up to speed until the Mercs get a stable amount of income.

What's the difference between a guy who hits for 20 twice and a guy who hits for 25 once against an opponent with 45 health?

This is irrelevant to the Rolf vs Shinon argument.

Rolf starts out with like 18 Strength.

Shinon starts with like 23 Strength.

Shinon doubles everything.

Rolf does not.

Shinon does at least 10 more damage here. And with another attack, he'll be doing an added 10 or 15 damage.

It isn't one rounding, it's two rounding or making it a lot easier for your other units to handle.

Rolf isn't making it any easier for other units to handle. He attacks once, and does like 10 damage in the process. That's not doing as well as Shinon in this case, is it?

You need to bring in a guy who can hit for 20 instead of someone that can just hit for 5.

So Shinon>Rolf. You're saying it yourself here.

We're talking the Greil Mercenaries here. Gatrie, Oscar, Ike, Boyd, and Titania should cover the spread. The only people who won't cover that damage in a single blow are Mia (once of the reasons I think she's useless) and Mist. OH MY FUCKING GOD SHINON IS SO MUCH MORE USEFUL DESPITE THE FACT I STILL HAVE TO ATTACK THE ENEMY WITH TWO GUYS :((((

I don't know what you're saying here.

Shinon has better crit, and that's about the only thing of his that's clearly better. His lead in speed hardly matters.

Hardly? Rolf doesn't double until his speed hits the mid 20s, which doesn't happen until he hits the teens in level. Shinon is promoted at this point, and the gap is just as wide between their speeds; Shinon has more Strength at this point too and still sustains a good Speed lead, allowing him to double more consistently and do more damage.

The fact is that most guys you fight with the Griel Mercs aren't being one-rounded by too many of your guys, Shinon included, unless you're hefting powerful weapons. The Mercs are poor for a long time so you are most likely just using what you're given, plus some Iron/Steel Greatlance/axe/blades once stuff starts breaking (as they are rather cost-effective weapons).

Rolf is the furthest away from one-rounding them. Everyone else can probably 2-3HKO, Rolf doesn't come to a point where he one-rounds unless you specifically put attention into him. Which you cannot afford if you want a stable defense up as well; even Gatrie needs support eventually.

Being the clear best at the end is more important in this game than being the clear best in the beginning, if you want my opinion, especially if the guy in question is still quite good for this "larger duration" of the game.

He's not "clear best" at the end when Shinon still has a level lead and beats him out in every other stat except Strength. The point is that Shinon is clearly more powerful for the beginning and middle of their availabilities and is doing just as well IF NOT BETTER near the end, which should make him the better character. Something you're clearly not seeing.

And guess what? Shinon doesn't need any specialized attention to catch up. He's already caught up and on par with your allies and is a lot better than your enemies! Rolf's pretty much equal or lower than your enemies.

Three letter word too big for you?

What is my "ilk"?

The thing is that Rolf catches up to Shinon's strength extremely fast. You've got a 3 out of 4 chance of gaining strength with him, so if we're talking level 9, he should have gained 6 strength. That shouldn't take too long as Rolf'll be gaining about half a level per kill (and taking much, much, much less of your bonus experience than Shinon would). Shinon is lucky to hit 24 strength before he even promotes. He gains strength 2 out of every 5 levels, so you're looking at 3, maybe 4 before be promotes.

That's not the point. Shinon's strength is 26 at promotion; at which point, Rolf's hit like 24 Strength at Level 12. Shinon is doing better than him at this time, especially with a massive lead in all his other stats.

Nobody cares how well they're doing for their level. It's how well they're doing overall, and Shinon's output is a lot better despite, if Rolf were to hypothetically match Shinon in level, his leads in stats. But Rolf and Shinon will never be at the same level; Shinon will always be higher. So that argument is thrown out the window, and according to averages Shinon is always doing better than Rolf.

Strength? Tied, with Rolf set to take the lead for quite some time.

Skill? Yeah, Shinon's got the edge. Rolf's still not missing. It equates to a higher crit chance for Shinon unless Rolf is next to Boyd and Oscar.

OH MY GOD THAT IS SUCH A HUGE, MONUMENTAL LEAD I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT ANYONE WOULD USE ROLF EVER.

Four speed is huge. It means he's covering a bunch more people that Rolf isn't close to doubling.

If you're relying on the Triangle Attack as an argument, you fail. You've yet to refute my previous argument on how useless the Triangle Attack is.

And you're seeing my point here. Rolf takes more work to use, and Shinon's stats are either on par or ahead when you put the same amount of work, if not less, into him. Which is the point of the Shinon > Rolf argument, as well as the fact that one is better than the other for a very long period of time.

Solution: Have Rolf attack slower enemies? There's plenty of slugs out there.

Like?

Shinon's not quick enough to double-attack Swordmaster enemies, so he's got the advantage over Rolf against, like, Warriors.

Actually, he can double Swordmasters pretty effectively.

That's about it. Rolf is quick enough to double attack enemy sages, archers, generals, dragonmasters... Odd how he'll actually be hurting the enemies that both of them can double attack more than your precious Shinon, eh?

Rolf can't double attack Snipers for a while.

Anyone can kill a Sage.

He'll barely scratch Generals and Dragonmasters for a while.

17 strength. That's fucking pathetic for that part of the game. She's gonna lose a lot of attack speed if you want to use any weapon she actually inflicts damage on. Most the other guys in your party do in one attack what she does in two.

Excuse me? There's almost no swords available that break the 17 Weight mark; the only one I can actually think of is the Ragnell. If there's another one, Mia definitely doesn't have access to it; and even with it, she loses 3 speed at the very most which isn't much. She's fine with Attack Speed, you're just overexaggerating her base Strength.

Other than that, she requires a little handholding (imo) but only requires about a chapter or two at best, unlike Rolf who requires multiple chapters before he becomes useful. Mia also doubles a lot more consistently as you go on, so her use tends to go up.

High speed = whoopty doo, she's still dealing as much damage in two hits as many of your guys are doing in one (and a lot of them still manage to double attack, go figure.)

Wrong. She'll probably be doing more damage than Boyd and Gatrie, who also need a double attacking kickstart (Boyd moreso).

She's defensively incompetent. Her dodge isn't even really all that good.

Wrong again. 70ish base is pretty good, and it'll only go up.

Her defense will also increase decently. (70% HP and 40% Defense by the way).

She dies in two hits from a lot of guys.

Wrong again. She probably dies in like four at best, but she's evading most of them if not all of them.

Rolf doesn't need to risk getting hit in order to attack, while Mia is at the mercy of the RNG gods.

At least Mia can counterattack.

Wrath is semi-pointless because if someone as frail as Mia gets to below 50% HP, I'm going to try and heal her right away.

Not really seeing as Mia knows how to dodge.

To give her adept, you'd have to steal it off Soren. I don't know why you'd do that because Adept makes Soren incredible.

It seems to work better on Mia who also has higher Speed to use it off of... so it'll activate a lot more often for her.

[Saint Nightroad]

There are other characters who use Adept (Zihark being one of them.) You also get one from one of Aimee's bargains only 9 chapters into part 3.

Vantage useless? Rofl. Do you even know what you are talking about? On a Trueblade who can critical, adept, or otherwise murder their foes in one attack if they are lucky, Vantage can be a godly defense. Sometimes she won't even need to dodge because the opponent will never have a chance to take a swing at her.

Mia never gets RNG screwed period... she is going to be godly by the end of Part 3 99% guaranteed. If she doesn't end up godly, your game hates you.

Are you seriously comparing Mia to a sniper? Thats lol worthly to say the least.

Who said you would have to keep her health low to use Wrath. Even if it just serves as a second line of defense for Vantage kills, then it serves a great purpose.

And if Mia isn't in the frontlines near Ike... your doing it wrong.

[Saaji]

There are other characters who use Adept (Zihark being one of them.) You also get one from one of Aimee's bargains only 9 chapters into part 3.

Vantage useless? Rofl. Do you even know what you are talking about? On a Trueblade who can critical, adept, or otherwise murder their foes in one attack if they are lucky, Vantage can be a godly defense. Sometimes she won't even need to dodge because the opponent will never have a chance to take a swing at her.

Mia never gets RNG screwed period... she is going to be godly by the end of Part 3 99% guaranteed. If she doesn't end up godly, your game hates you.

Are you seriously comparing Mia to a sniper? Thats lol worthly to say the least.

Who said you would have to keep her health low to use Wrath. Even if it just serves as a second line of defense for Vantage kills, then it serves a great purpose.

And if Mia isn't in the frontlines near Ike... your doing it wrong.

In every other fire emblem Vantage was pretty awesome but now that its skill or speed activated its not nearly as reliable as it use to be. So at max it activates around 40% of the time and with the biorhythm its up 10 or down 10 or something inbetween not soo amazing anymore.

Though Mia is still pretty good though she struggles a bit at the start of part 3 if you dont transfer bonus a few stats for her.

[sandmanccl]

I'm being lectured on strategy by 15 year olds.

This is now officially a riot.

My gaming philosophy is to rely as little on luck as possible. Every single possible advantange Mia has on any unit, period, is luck-reliant. That's one reason I dislike the swordmaster class as a whole throughout the entire series.

There's no luck involved attacking a guy at range and sticking some heavies in between to eat their attack and then counter for big damage. None. Even if you're sitting on 30% chances to hit and they are sitting on 100% chances to hit, if you protect your back field and have a way to keep your front guys, who cannot possibly die from multiple enemies in any given round, up and running either by healing items or healing staves, you will win. Luck can't go against you forever, but it can go against you long enough to be a major problem.

Because I approach games this way, I very rarely have to restart any video game I have ever played in the course of the last few years. I never see my beloved precious units go down to an unlucky hit when I was relying on a dodge. I never lose my lower defensible support units (archers, mages, healers) to stray attacks because they never get attacked.

If you want to rely on luck, by all means, continue playing the game without ever venturing into anything that requires the slightest extra bit of brain power, please. There'll be less competition to other people who can actually think outside the box in the business world once you enter the work force.

[Florete]

I'm being lectured on strategy by 15 year olds.

This is now officially a riot.

My gaming philosophy is to rely as little on luck as possible. Every single possible advantange Mia has on any unit, period, is luck-reliant. That's one reason I dislike the swordmaster class as a whole throughout the entire series.

There's no luck involved attacking a guy at range and sticking some heavies in between to eat their attack and then counter for big damage. None. Even if you're sitting on 30% chances to hit and they are sitting on 100% chances to hit, if you protect your back field and have a way to keep your front guys, who cannot possibly die from multiple enemies in any given round, up and running either by healing items or healing staves, you will win. Luck can't go against you forever, but it can go against you long enough to be a major problem.

Because I approach games this way, I very rarely have to restart any video game I have ever played in the course of the last few years. I never see my beloved precious units go down to an unlucky hit when I was relying on a dodge. I never lose my lower defensible support units (archers, mages, healers) to stray attacks because they never get attacked.

If you want to rely on luck, by all means, continue playing the game without ever venturing into anything that requires the slightest extra bit of brain power, please. There'll be less competition to other people who can actually think outside the box in the business world once you enter the work force.

You know, that was rather rude and uncalled for. Calling out a person based on their age is...rather pathetic. I'm 18, yet I more or less agree with them. Mia is a great character. Rolf is too, but not as much as Shinon. You say you don't rely on luck, but there's a reason luck is a stat in this game; this whole series is pretty much one giant luck fest. It's called RNG screwings and blessings. You're relying on luck just by using Rolf, yet not as much using Shinon, because Shinon starts higher and already has good stats. Armored units won't always but it for you, because not evey map has a place where you can plug up enemies. Dodging can be just as reliable anyway; when enemies have 20% or less displayed hit, you can usually count on your unit living. By usually, I mean almost always. And this is just how it starts for Mia; those numbers get consistently lower.

[Reikken]

Every single possible advantange Mia has on any unit, period, is luck-reliant.

Having enough spd to double attack is pretty concrete.

Also, having 100 hit instead of liek 80 is also, in a way.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Reikken

[sandmanccl]

You know, that was rather rude and uncalled for. Calling out a person based on their age is...rather pathetic. I'm 18, yet I more or less agree with them. Mia is a great character. Rolf is too, but not as much as Shinon. You say you don't rely on luck, but there's a reason luck is a stat in this game; this whole series is pretty much one giant luck fest. It's called RNG screwings and blessings. You're relying on luck just by using Rolf, yet not as much using Shinon, because Shinon starts higher and already has good stats. Armored units won't always but it for you, because not evey map has a place where you can plug up enemies. Dodging can be just as reliable anyway; when enemies have 20% or less displayed hit, you can usually count on your unit living. By usually, I mean almost always. And this is just how it starts for Mia; those numbers get consistently lower.

Just like you can almost always rely on a strike being thrown in baseball, right? I mean, there's only like a handful of guys that have finished with .400 percent batting averages over the course of any given season. It's completely inconceivable that you'll get hit by a guy who only has a 20% chance to hit you, right? Let alone more than once in a turn. I mean, that's unheard of.

Right?

That's what I mean by relying on luck. Dodge is luck, hit is luck, whatever stats that increase is luck. That's all true. Gain Rolf 5 levels and he's not growing into his potential? Dump his ass and stick with Shinon. Rolf's proving to be an avatar of god with green hair and giant eyeballs? Keep him around. Hell, it might be worth getting Rolf passable in case Shinon starts to suck ass for you, because that can happen pretty easily. Strategy and contingency plans > luck.

There's 13 maps before end-game you can use Mia on if you bring her every single time you can. If you're using her as a dodge tank (which I can only assume you guys do from the ways you praise the dodge stat), my guess is there's a situation where she's sitting in a spot where more than one guy is going to attack her. Could be up to 3. Depending on how reckless you are, it could be an undetermined number assuming she cuts guys down she attacks on her turn, meaning more of them can go fill the same spot, or possibly canto units like paladins and dragonknights flying in and out. Unless it's a single guy that cannot possibly kill her, it's dangerous to rely on dodging. Let's say you have one situation in all 13 maps before endgame where there's 3 guys that will attack Mia on your turn, for whatever reason, and they've all got a measly 20% chance to hit her. Let's also say for the sake of ease that she's going to get killed if all 3 guys hit her (which is actually pretty likely as her defense is abysmal and she's got a terrible HP cap). The chance of her getting eighty-sixed is too great, I'm sorry.

I think Mia is trash until end-game because you've got a large number of units who are just as/deadlier than she is but that are also pretty defensively capable (Ike, Boyd, Gatrie, Titania, hell even Shinon come to mind immediately). Endgame is a bit different because by then, her defense should be passable (great, no, passable, yes) and it's a rare unit that can double-attack the spirits in the final two maps at T3 level 10. Swordmasters still suck in my eyes; Trueblades are a pretty ravaging class. Another issue with Mia is that she's competing for a spot on my team while it's pretty much guaranteed that Edward or Zihark is getting playtime (and they are competing for the same spot in most cases, so one or the other is out there). You've said yourself they pretty much all end the same. The most difficult times I've had in the Griel Mercs maps, now that I think about it, were the times I used Mia over other units that offer greater strategic use (like a canto unit, or someone who can take 10 hits in a round and still be truckin', or someone with range, or someone that can steal, or someone that can fly...)

Reikken does bring up a good point about speed being concrete and 100% accuracy is >>>>>>>>>>>>> 99% accuracy > anything below it. Eliminating luck > relying on luck, and her accuracy pretty much never relies on luck. Point in her favor.

As for not every map having a place to plug up enemies, that's just not true. I'm going to make another thread specifically about it, so look for it in the general FE section.

[Saint Nightroad]

I'm being lectured on strategy by 15 year olds.

I'm 16... and I still know more than you.

Seriously... you need to quit throwing around this bullshit. Just because luck plays a factor in our games doesn't mean we're stupid. Luck plays a factor in your playthroughs as well. Unless you are a tactical god, there can always be something you didn't count on which poses a threat to someone on your team.

Mia doesn't even need to be lucky for the most part. Once she's a trueblade, she'll be dodging so much, only characters like Ulki (in Hawk form) and Tibarn can hope to surpass her evasion. Luck is just a nice little factor (which is pretty nice considering she has very good luck most of the time.)

I don't think anyone here solely relies on her as a dodge tank as you say. On Hard and maybe even Normal that would be stupid. But she is a better tank than most of the game's characters could ever hope to be.

As for the Edward or Zihark argument, there is room in the endgame for 2 swordsmasters if thats what you want. Hell I always bring to (Mia the staple, and the second is either Edward, Zihark, or Stefan).

You forget to factor in that Mia is the most playable Trueblade in the game because of her spot in the Greil mercs. While she can require some handholding, its nowhere near as much as your precious green haired crybaby.

Oh and unlike Zihark, she doesn't get RNG screwed stat-wise.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Chris Lionheart

[Wisper]

Mia doesn't even need to be lucky for the most part. Once she's a trueblade, she'll be dodging so much.

...

What?

Isn't dodging completely luck based? Dodging is all luck unless you have 0% hit, which can really only happen with Earthx3 support on Zihark against a warrior on easy mode. If we're talking about hard mode, which is where all character debates should take place, then dodging should NOT be a way of defense. Defense is the best defense, if you get hit, you will be assured to live.

Mia is also harder to baby, too. At level 7, she will have 13 defense and 34 HP, which is exactly the same as Rolf when you first get him. Her growths in those stats are pretty good, but her bases will kill her until she hits 3rd tier, and then her crappy stat caps will kick in. On top of that, she's competing with Ike for swords. Not only is Ike twice as good as her, but he's also required, meaning he's going to constantly need swords to enter combat. The GM's are poor until the 3 armies combine and you get all that money, and it's going to really weaken you to waste money on weapons for a character that won't end up spectacular. Archers are easier to baby because they aren't risking being killed by a counter, Mia is risking losing over half her HP if she gets into combat with someone.

Rolf on the other hand, strength and HP will increase at an insane rate. Once he starts to double, which...might take quite a few levels on hard, he'll be pretty damn lethal. Also, as a side note, Rolf can evade pretty much just as well as Mia. Haar, the best character in the game comes to the Mercs pretty earth and with a Windx3 Support they get +13 Avoid and Accuracy. Rolf averages about 107 avoid that way. Mia is going to need to support a fire character or dark character if she wants to damage things (fire with Boyd being the obvious choice.) BUT she can support with Soren (who is pretty crappy in HM) and she'll get 116 avoid out of it. She has +9 avoid on Rolf but Rolf is beating her overall. Her luck is better, but it's basically just a slight plus to avoid, and speed, which doesn't matter because enemy speed doesn't get that high above 30.

Endgame, it isn't even a contest. Rolf is just better. Rolf's overall power with Double Bow is 61. Mia's overall power with alondite is 49. He's one of the most lethal characters in the game when he get's there. He can use the best weapon in the game, and has a good chance of one rounding all the generals and white dragons. He can do this also from three range. Mia is ALWAYS risking a counterattack and getting hit.

[Lord Raven]

My gaming philosophy is to rely as little on luck as possible.

Then you shouldn't play Fire Emblem, because Fire Emblem is the least tactically oriented RPG ever (correct me if I'm wrong, though, but it is down there).

[Reikken]

Considering that most other games have all kinds of hidden stats and complex formulas and random variation in damage, whereas in Fire Emblem, you can know exactly how much damage will be dealt and the chance of getting hit or missing, etc.--everything is there where you can see it--, I would totally and completely disagree.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Reikken

[Saint Nightroad]

...

What?

Isn't dodging completely luck based? Dodging is all luck unless you have 0% hit, which can really only happen with Earthx3 support on Zihark against a warrior on easy mode. If we're talking about hard mode, which is where all character debates should take place, then dodging should NOT be a way of defense. Defense is the best defense, if you get hit, you will be assured to live.

Its not so luck based when your dodge is as high as Mia's. She does not get hit much at all (except in rare cases like Dheginsea and other really high accuracy foes.)

Mia is at least remotely useful from day one.... is Rolf?

[Wisper]

Its not so luck based when your dodge is as high as Mia's. She does not get hit much at all (except in rare cases like Dheginsea and other really high accuracy foes.)

Mia is at least remotely useful from day one.... is Rolf?

It still is very luck based whether you get hit or not. Say Mia has about a 65% avoid (which is fairly common on hard mode.) There's a 65% she can get hit and lose over half her health, and there's a 35% chance she'll dodge and receive no damage at all. That=Luck.

And how is Mia even remotely useful from day one? She starts out with Rolf's strength, HP, and defense at level 7 and uses weaker weapons.

[Saint Nightroad]

It still is very luck based whether you get hit or not. Say Mia has about a 65% avoid (which is fairly common on hard mode.) There's a 65% she can get hit and lose over half her health, and there's a 35% chance she'll dodge and receive no damage at all. That=Luck.

And how is Mia even remotely useful from day one? She starts out with Rolf's strength, HP, and defense at level 7 and uses weaker weapons.

Higher avoid, great crit, ability to counter attack. Now maybe in Hard Mode (which I haven't felt like trying thanks to the Dawn Brigade that may not be the case) but in Normal Mode she should be able to hold off well enough to be useful. And her potential is great.

[_____]

Avoid's a little less reliable in Hard Mode, but it's not like Rolf has h4x defense, either.

[Reikken]

And how is Mia even remotely useful from day one?

SPEED. She doubles things while others have trouble doing so.

And crit, too. Even if it's not reliable, it's nice to have.

She also makes the best use of Adept since she has the most spd and doubles everything, so that helps her usefulness a bit.

[Wisper]

SPEED. She doubles things while others have trouble doing so.

And crit, too. Even if it's not reliable, it's nice to have.

She also makes the best use of Adept since she has the most spd and doubles everything, so that helps her usefulness a bit.

She's doing hardly any damage at first.

She has +10 crit. Big deal.

Adept can be given to anyone.

[_____]

Neither is Rolf.

It matters. A lot.

But Mia uses Adept the best.

Edited November 21, 2008 by ChaosNinji

[Wisper]

Neither is Rolf.

It matters. A lot.

But Mia uses Adept the best.

Rolf is much better when babied.

Enemy luck is so high in this game that +10 crit really doesn't matter. Hell, +20 crit isn't really a big deal.

I suppose she uses it the best, but not by much. She starts with a 28% activation rate, Shinon starts with 24%, Oscar and Titania start with 21%, Ike starts with 23%, Gatrie starts with 20%, and Rolf starts with 19%.

[Saint Nightroad]

Speaking of Adept, does anyone else ever give it to Sothe?

I find its pretty nice for increasing the likelihood of a Bane, if only by a little. Plus its one of the only ways for Sothe's mediocre damage output to improve (and with his stats close to those of a swordmaster speed-wise, he'll have a good activation rate.)

[Reikken]

Enemy luck is so high in this game that +10 crit really doesn't matter. Hell, +20 crit isn't really a big deal.

It is when combined with a +crit weapon, and even moreso when also combined with Adept

I suppose she uses it the best, but not by much. She starts with a 28% activation rate, Shinon starts with 24%, Oscar and Titania start with 21%, Ike starts with 23%, Gatrie starts with 20%, and Rolf starts with 19%.

Don't forget that often she doubles where others do not. Only Shinon doubles almost everything, and even he doesn't double swordmasters.

48.2% on a double attack

42.2% when Shinon doubles

Anyway, what I'm saying is that fact that she uses it the best is a point in her favor.

[_____]

Rolf is much better when babied.

Proof, plzthx.

[Wisper]

Proof, plzthx.

Ok, better growths, better stat caps, better class, better final average stats, highest possible critical rate in the game, ability to use the best weapon in the game. I'm pretty sure I posted a paragraph about this earlier. The only thing she has on him is some speed, but Rolf DA's nearly anything anyway, and luck which contributes to evade, and her evade is only really +9 higher than his.

[_____]

Ok, better growths, better stat caps, better class, better final average stats, highest possible critical rate in the game, ability to use the best weapon in the game. I'm pretty sure I posted a paragraph about this earlier. The only thing she has on him is some speed, but Rolf DA's nearly anything anyway, and luck which contributes to evade, and her evade is only really +9 higher than his.

Growths: At the cost of shitty base stats and being stuck to 2-range only because Crossbows are pretty fail.

Stat Caps: Wut? Rolf has 3 atk and 4 def on Mia. That's it.

Class: Arguable. Marksmen are pretty awesome, but they don't get access to the Double Bow, and thus, thier 1~2 range (Unless you like Crossbows. I don't.) until 4-E-1. Mia's got a 20+ Critical and Astra, though both Deadeye and Astra are OHKOs. Rolf gets +15 Critical and and a 2~3 range. Still no 1 range, though, so that hinders his usefulness on the enemy phase. There just aren't that many archers.

Final Average: Sure, he beats her later on, but Mia's useful earlier.

Critical: lolwut? +20 Critical + Killing Edge/Forged Sword + Same Skill cap = +5 more critical chance than Rolf.

Weapon: Axes > Bows. Double Bow's pretty good, but Axes are light, cheap, and pretty damn powerful. Axes > Bows = Swords > Lances.

Second sentence: When are you comparing them? If you're talking about Final Averages, then throw that out the window. BEXP pretty much destroyes FAs in this game. Mia and Shinon are the only GMs doubling consistantly through the early parts of Part 3. Rolf has fail base str, so he's got some pretty bad AS. Also, +9 is the difference between life or death.

[Lord Raven]

Crossbows are pretty fail.

Crossbows aren't that fail. If you give Shinon a Bow and happen to be next to him to attack another enemy, switch around equipment for Crossbow or whatever, then he'll actually have the ability to counter attack enemies. It's situational but works decently.

If you use one your own turn, it's not a bad idea either; it costs you a kill at best, though.

Weapon: Axes > Bows. Double Bow's pretty good, but Axes are light, cheap, and pretty damn powerful. Axes > Bows = Swords > Lances.

Where are Axes relevant here?

Also... Rolf is able to hold pretty much any bow early on because Bows are pretty damn light. His base Speed is just relatively low.