Religion.

[Phoenix]

Science is in my top 8 on MySpace.

I'll add him sometime too.

Oh yeah I think everyone should know that Science is getting engaged to Science-fiction pretty soon. Evolution was torn up about it but her that star trek was single and Evolution put on her Stileto heals and ran to the nearest taxi to get over to the Star Trek convention. So do you think Sci-fi and Sci will be happy together or is this an "opposites attract and then bad stuff happens"?

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, some of your posts in this thread are spectator-like in nature and aren't really contributing much to the discussion. It's evident that you're enjoying yourself, which is awesome, but can you make sure all of your posts contribute to the discussion a bit? Thanks, and sorry for the brief interruption.

Yeah sorrybout that. I was waiting for someone to make a point that wasn't retarded so I could either contribute or rebut. Still waiting.

[Phoenix Wright]

Admins, this is a sign of this thread needing a locking.

No one was persuaded, which makes this thread useless.

[YokaiKnight]

What I gathered from the articles is that amino acids can be created by various means. While they are important to life, they themselves are not alive. Very interesting though, thank you. I actually think it would be pretty cool to see this succeed.

I'm sorry. I should have elaborated on my search. Within the last month, I'd heard of a news article reporting that scientists had mized compounds essential to life (and believed to be present on young Earth) in a lab environment, and on their own, the compounds had come together to create a cellular structure. The cell, as you probably know, is the basic unit of life. I couldn't find this article, so instead I tried to show that cellular compounds were capable of synthesizing themselves, but I lost interested and just posted what I had.

However, the abiogenesis wikipedia article and its sources should have given a brief rundown of how other components of the cell were present. I admit I didn't read the whole article, though, so if you demand more proof I'll take the time to look it up soon.

Actually, a king made up that way of measurement. The joke's on you.

That doesn't affect his point and doesn't answer his question. Are you sure that a foot is twelve inches? If so, how?

EDIT:

Admins, this is a sign of this thread needing a locking.

No one was persuaded, which makes this thread useless.

Excuse me if my memory's faulty, but wasn't there recently a thread about how the staff was tired of people proclaiming threads needed to be locked, when it could be requested by PM?

Even if not, I would strongly disagree with locking the thread because it's valid as long as there's a discussion. Persuasion is great, but not necessary.

Edited December 4, 2008 by YokaiKnight

[Phoenix]

Admins, this is a sign of this thread needing a locking.

No one was persuaded, which makes this thread useless.

Persuasion? That's like drinking sea water when you're dying of thirst. You're just making it worse.

[Phoenix Wright]

Persuasion? That's like drinking sea water when you're dying of thirst. You're just making it worse.

But the same statements have been thrown over and over again. This thread is useless IMO.

[Meteor]

if you demand more proof I'll take the time to look it up soon.

I trust you enough to believe you're not making it up. It's very intriguing and brings up more questions, but it satisfies my curiosity for the time being.

[YokaiKnight]

But the same statements have been thrown over and over again. This thread is useless IMO.

If you're not getting anything out of the thread, leave and let those of us who still have something to talk about to talk. Nobody's going to stop class because you got bored and walked out.

I trust you enough to believe you're not making it up. It's very intriguing and brings up more questions, but it satisfies my curiosity for the time being.

thanks mah dude

Edited December 4, 2008 by YokaiKnight

[Phoenix]

If you're not getting anything out of the thread, leave and let those of us who still have something to talk about to talk. Nobody's going to stop class because you got bored and walked out.

And on that note, why are we throwning the same crap back and forth at each other? Let's start digging up our good stuff! I know both sides are holding back. You can't fool me :P

Come on! Bring in the big guns! Assault Cannons! 50cals! Nuclear bombs! Let's go!

[Defeatist Elitist]

We keep throwing the same crap because, well, it's still important. We won't bring up new stuff until you solve the old stuff.

[Phoenix]

We keep throwing the same crap because, well, it's still important. We won't bring up new stuff until you solve the old stuff.

Nuclear bombs have bad fallout, scientific stuff doesn't. Don't be shy.

Besides solving your points isn't the "point" They only disagree with religion, not with the existence of God. Continuing on. God a supposedly perfect being could create something imperfect with full intent to fix it's flaws, as the greater purpose in this may still be perfection. A car can't be made out of one wheel, you need four and a hellovalot of other materials to get a finished product. I see this imperfect human race as an unfinished product. Creating us perfect could very well have been a flaw. Image trying to drive a dicast car. It's shaped like a car but it's one big hunk of metal. It can't go anywhere or do anything. So I'll support the unfinished theory for now seeing as it is supported in the Bible anyway. Revelation is scary if you think it's real but it's pretty "revealing" B)

Edited December 4, 2008 by Phoenix

[YokaiKnight]

If God is perfect, his creations should be perfect since he is incapable of imperfection. How is that "a flaw?"

[Meteor]

I am perfect, so I guess God wins this round!

One of those nasty arguments is that God can do anything he wants. That kind of avoids the limitations problem. Trying to understand something that by nature cannot be understood is a tricky task.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I am perfect, so I guess God wins this round!

One of those nasty arguments is that God can do anything he wants. That kind of avoids the limitations problem. Trying to understand something that by nature cannot be understood is a tricky task.

But that in itself is a fallacy. That's the problem. Anyone can make up something and just yell,

"NO, IT'S ABOVE UNDERSTANDING AND NO AMOUNT OF LOGIC CAN DEFUSE IT! LALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU."

If people did that with everything, nothing would ever get done. :P

[Phoenix]

If God is perfect, his creations should be perfect since he is incapable of imperfection. How is that "a flaw?"

He is incapable of sin. Sin is transgression of the law. He made the laws which are the ten commandments. That doesn't mean he can't take a human being that is not "complete" and mold within him perfect righteous character and then create a finished product later on. Creating sinful humans is not God doing inperfect things. Kinda like how you can't build a car with just one part. You just can't. You can melt the part and put it in the shape of a car, but it can't function like one, it just looks like one. In simple english:

Creating imperfection with the intent of eventual perfection is not imperfection on God's part.

If people can't accept that then whatev... nothin I can do about it... cept giggle and start messing around somemore.

[Meteor]

But that in itself is a fallacy.

I know that. God cannot logically exist.

The way I see it, existence is like a blot of ink. Logic is one way of interpreting it; religion is another. From one perspective, logic governs everything and God has no place. From the other, God supersedes logic.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Meteor

[Defeatist Elitist]

I know that. God cannot logically exist.

The way I see it, existence is like a blot of ink. Logic is one way of interpreting it; religion is another. From one perspective, logic governs everything and God has no place. From the other, God supersedes logic.

Yeah, but one is going to end up being right. :D

And basically why would you ever believe in something that supersedes logic, that is totally outside of what we call reality, and impossible to understand?

[Meteor]

True enough.

Why? Because he sent his son in the form of a person, something we do understand. I guess I don't have a better explanation than that.

[Phoenix]

Maybe I should just quickly say everything I have to say about this dumb perfection logic you loginators have instead of spoon feeding it. Well here goes. I'm going to open up a can of logic of my own for about thirty seconds then turn back into a religious nutjob.

Perfection: Esau says subjective. I say cool. Okay on to my point. It's been stated numerous times now that God can't create imperfection. This is totally wrong in where it's coming from. Look at the process of creation for crying out loud! What happens when something is created? When is something complete? Something is complete when it matches the intended result pictured by the creator. It is perfect or complete at this point. God making us imperfect is not something that can ever be used to prove him false because it makes sense if you know what creation is... or if you messed around with legos earlier in life :P

You don't just create something in an instant do you? You build it, you form and mold it. You fashion it to your liking. This alone is proof. If you stop half way in the middle of building something is it perfect and complete or is it imperfect, unfinished, and incomplete? The latter! God in creating humans had to make us flawed first as making us perfect outright was impossible! It is not possible to mold perfect holy righteous character into a free moral agent. It doesn't work that way. Satan is perfect proof of this. He was created a free moral agent too, but without perfect righteous character. Instead of following God he chose his own way. The angels that stayed are probably still undergoing the process of perfection, who knows. My point is that perfection comes from a combination of imperfections. You cannot have perfection without imperfections thrown together. And it doesn't happen instantly. Any measure of time between uncreated and created means imperfection was present and if it was present then the object created was at one point no matter how brief, IMPERFECT

So enough with this perfection makes perfection. That's true. But the process requires imperfection. This isn't philisophical, it's just reality. Everything shaped to it's ideal form is formed from the unideal, the unfinished, the incomplete parts. Don't think for a second that there is something around here made out of just one single thing. Everything in the Universe is made out of billions of tiny things, all of which imperfect alone. Imperfection and perfection go hand and hand. But while perfection is still subjective it's up to the Scientific community to keep flapping their gums about what is and isn't.

This rant brought to you by Phoeni-kun ;)

[Defeatist Elitist]

Maybe I should just quickly say everything I have to say about this dumb perfection logic you loginators have instead of spoon feeding it. Well here goes. I'm going to open up a can of logic of my own for about thirty seconds then turn back into a religious nutjob.

Perfection: Esau says subjective. I say cool. Okay on to my point. It's been stated numerous times now that God can't create imperfection. This is totally wrong in where it's coming from. Look at the process of creation for crying out loud! What happens when something is created? When is something complete? Something is complete when it matches the intended result pictured by the creator. It is perfect or complete at this point. God making us imperfect is not something that can ever be used to prove him false because it makes sense if you know what creation is... or if you messed around with legos earlier in life :P

You don't just create something in an instant do you? You build it, you form and mold it. You fashion it to your liking. This alone is proof. If you stop half way in the middle of building something is it perfect and complete or is it imperfect, unfinished, and incomplete? The latter! God in creating humans had to make us flawed first as making us perfect outright was impossible! It is not possible to mold perfect holy righteous character into a free moral agent. It doesn't work that way. Satan is perfect proof of this. He was created a free moral agent too, but without perfect righteous character. Instead of following God he chose his own way. The angels that stayed are probably still undergoing the process of perfection, who knows. My point is that perfection comes from a combination of imperfections. You cannot have perfection without imperfections thrown together. And it doesn't happen instantly. Any measure of time between uncreated and created means imperfection was present and if it was present then the object created was at one point no matter how brief, IMPERFECT

So enough with this perfection makes perfection. That's true. But the process requires imperfection. This isn't philisophical, it's just reality. Everything shaped to it's ideal form is formed from the unideal, the unfinished, the incomplete parts. Don't think for a second that there is something around here made out of just one single thing. Everything in the Universe is made out of billions of tiny things, all of which imperfect alone. Imperfection and perfection go hand and hand. But while perfection is still subjective it's up to the Scientific community to keep flapping their gums about what is and isn't.

This rant brought to you by Phoeni-kun ;)

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

First you say that nothing is impossible for God and that logic doesn't apply to him.

Then you turn around and say that it does?

I'm sorry, a perfect being should be able to do anything fully perfectly instantly (Oh look, another problem there).

[Phoenix]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

First you say that nothing is impossible for God and that logic doesn't apply to him.

Then you turn around and say that it does?

I'm sorry, a perfect being should be able to do anything fully perfectly instantly (Oh look, another problem there).

I'm glad you're amused buy you just did that misreading thing again. Ah vell my fault for typing so fast. Maybe you think that this perfect God should create things the way you want them to, instead of the way it's happening? You must be on that rightieous character comment I made. The reason God doesn't put perfect flawless character in us is because that would turn us into holy robots instead of free moral agents. God could make us robots but that would be meaningless and therefore flawed and imperfect.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I'm glad you're amused buy you just did that misreading thing again. Ah vell my fault for typing so fast. Maybe you think that this perfect God should create things the way you want them to, instead of the way it's happening? You must be on that rightieous character comment I made. The reason God doesn't put perfect flawless character in us is because that would turn us into holy robots instead of free moral agents. God could make us robots but that would be meaningless and therefore flawed and imperfect.

What I'm saying is that you seem to ignore logic and Science in the majority of cases, and then somehow out of nowhere pull up the silliest and most bizarre bastardizations of them and expect us to accept them.

[Phoenix Wright]

I'm glad you're amused buy you just did that misreading thing again. Ah vell my fault for typing so fast. Maybe you think that this perfect God should create things the way you want them to, instead of the way it's happening? You must be on that rightieous character comment I made. The reason God doesn't put perfect flawless character in us is because that would turn us into holy robots instead of free moral agents. God could make us robots but that would be meaningless and therefore flawed and imperfect.

That is what I said, it just wasn't as clear as yours.

Also, if God just made more Gods...how is that any fun? People become friends for having things in common, not being exactly alike. Yes, I am saying God wanted friends, yes He got what He wanted: friends. Maybe that is why we are here. Phoenix made that idea come to thought.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Citrusman

[Phoenix]

What I'm saying is that you seem to ignore logic and Science in the majority of cases, and then somehow out of nowhere pull up the silliest and most bizarre bastardizations of them and expect us to accept them.

I don't ignore science. I use it to my own benefit and throw my religious stuff in where neccessary. There's a difference. Also I don't expect you to believe everything I'm saying, I just want you guys to quit using perfection only creates perfection as proof God doesn't exist because it's not and it's flawed. Like broken condom flawed.

[Defeatist Elitist]

So God intentionally caused all of this horrible pain and suffering? :P

AGH, WHAT AM I DOING. This discussion lacks any sense, I've got to steer this back towards sanity...