Religion.

[Phoenix]

So God intentionally caused all of this horrible pain and suffering? :P

AGH, WHAT AM I DOING. This discussion lacks any sense, I've got to steer this back towards sanity...

He Allowed it, not caused it. Humans are responsible for their own actions.I'd allowed it.

If humanity has an unforgettable "burn your hand on the stove" lesson in it's own ways and God's then maybe they'll listen one day. It's not like God can't fix the damage done and bring the dead back to life. The Bible says it happened all the time so if it's true then death and destruction as lessons aren't that big a deal. Maybe I'm alittle hardened, but I've seen some things

Edited December 4, 2008 by Phoenix

[Florete]

The main thing I don't understand about religion is Hell, and it was brought up before; If He loves us so much, why does he sentence those who don't believe in him to eternal suffering?

Edited December 4, 2008 by Red Fox of Fire

[Dr. Tarrasque]

The main thing I don't understand about religion is Hell, and it was brought up before; If He loves us so much, why does he sentence those who don't believe in him to eternal suffering?

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/22144

Don't really know how accurate that first answer is though.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Boo

[Defeatist Elitist]

He Allowed it, not caused it. Humans are responsible for their own actions.I'd allowed it.

If humanity has an unforgettable "burn your hand on the stove" lesson in it's own ways and God's then maybe they'll listen one day. It's not like God can't fix the damage done and bring the dead back to life. The Bible says it happened all the time so if it's true then death and destruction as lessons aren't that big a deal. Maybe I'm alittle hardened, but I've seen some things

No, he caused it, by creating us. He knows everything so he KNEW it would happen.

[Florete]

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/22144

Don't really know how accurate that first answer is though.

Okay, but still. If he loves us, why would he let such terrible things happen? If you love something, you don't let it be tortured for eternity, right?

No, he caused it, by creating us. He knows everything so he KNEW it would happen.

So He knows what's going to happen, right? Maybe He has a plan. In fact, I think it says that in the Bible.

[Phoenix]

The main thing I don't understand about religion is Hell, and it was brought up before; If He loves us so much, why does he sentence those who don't believe in him to eternal suffering?

You and me belong in the same religion ;)

Seriously though hell is translated in two languages in the Bible.

Hebrew and Greek

In Hebrew Hell=Hole in the Ground

In Greek Hell=Grave

Thoughts coming to mind? In my religion Hell is eternal death. Never being alive again. Gehenna hellfire as mentioned in Revelation is the second death. Look for that phrase! SECOND DEATH. To die twice you must live twice and that requires a resurrection. Some believe that those tossed in the pit of fire just burn alive forever. That warrants a sick and cruel God. Gehenna is a place for burning dead bodies not living ones. Those that die the second death are never brought back to life. So in my religion they just stay dead for eternity. Never another thought, never another moment of pain. Merciful yet still punishment for wickedness. Believe it or don't. That's not why I said it :)

Anywho Fox I hope this paints a better picture for a merciful God rather than the evil one the athiests hate and use.

[Esau of Isaac]

I disagree to spread them as law. Not them altogether.

So when God commands you to kill homosexuals as law, how do you proceed? It's a command from God, not adhering to it would be about the same as actually committing the crime.

Really? Angels do specific jobs for God...

Wow...Let's try this one more time.

WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT STATE THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME BECOME GUARDIAN ANGELS FOR OTHERS?

On the contrary, if we DID know why, there would be no reason for faith.

There would be no need for faith without evidence. Faith would still exist, it just wouldn't come from a lack of evidence.

Or do you think that being aware of God's existence makes you less a part of God? At which point you'd basically be concluding that being in Heaven with God is contrary to a proper end, which would include you not knowing of him.

Which deletes making a healthy relationship with God, etc.

So then you can't have a healthy relationship with God when you're in Heaven, because you know of God.

gg, I guess.

So my offspring will be EXACTLY like me? Is that what you are saying? Why can't perfect create imperfect?

No, your offspring won't be like you. Unless you're trying to call yourself perfect, which would be utterly pretentious.

You were speaking of God? I meant Satan dude.

YEAH SURE I BET I'M WATCHING YOU

There isn't any. Big Bang, evidence please.

You want me to give you evidence of the Big Bang? What, you want like a scientific journal or ten? A wikipedia article?

Do you have ANY idea of how much I don't care?

Do you have ANY idea how little you know about science?

I don't think you do. Stop trying to make science your bitch, because you're failing spectacularly.

Then maybe hell is different. Maybe Hitler will be rewarded for the mass murder of 6 million European Jews.

Holy shit, you managed to miss the point again. You're some kind of professional.

The point (and so help you God if you miss it again) is that you should not receive eternal, neverending torment for mortal and actions. In other words, you should not receive infinite punishment for a finite crime.

Hm, but isn't there a hypothesis that the first 44 seconds after (or before, I forgot) the Big Bang, there was NO TIME.

Hahahaha

Ahahaha

Hahaha

Congratulations on using something you know so little about and trying to utilize it as a defense. I believe you're trying to talk about time zero, but the way you are phrasing it is confusing me.

I meant it will never end. Like infinity...which is not a time period either.

You just said that time doesn't exist in heaven. Which would follow that it doesn't in hell as well.

Are you contradicting yourself now?

Dying is ceasing to exist also, isn't it?

Not necessarily. The point is that you'll no longer be around when you go to Heaven. That is no longer you.

That means you aren't you either right? You are right in a way, you will not have dirty thoughts anymore.

But I like being me. Why would I want to have to change the very core of my being to go somewhere? That's the way people operate. Someone else might as well be receiving their time with God, because that individual is nothing like me at all.

And what changes? In order for you to keep from going madness, there would need to be fundamental alterations in the very thought process you utilize. And speaking of that, how do you think if you don't exist on the physical plane? Or can you explain that?

Good argument. When you die, ask Him.

I don't think that will occur.

That justice system was a metaphor man. XD Get off of it.

But therein lies a very open point; why is God the final say in a person's death? Why doesn't he let anyone just choose whether they want infinite pain or death? Why does he condemn anyone? If someone is altered down to their very being after death so as to go to Heaven, why doesn't he just do this to the "bad" people as well?

There are different uses of the word you know. Just like some may say the N word, Blacks may take it a different way.

Sigh...

When you punish an individual, you are passing judgment upon them. By definition.

Whoa, whoa...proof He doesn't exist? Yeah right.

Yes, that is correct. Even though you are joking.

Just because it doesn't make sense. doesn't mean it won't happen. We fail to see each others' points.

I did not fail to see your point. I just disproved your point by using logic and reasoning.

The point is that your God is contradictory to how our reality proceeds. In the same sense that a geocentrism is in total disagreement with a fundamental point of how our Universe operates, so too is your God's existence.

OK, so what if the Bible is somewhat inaccurate? Wasn't almost everything inaccurate back then?

If the Bible, being used as evidence of your God, is inaccurate, it casts the entire book into doubt. If you can conclude that outlandish stories in the book were simple fables, then what does that say of the central God? Could this not in itself be a fable?

Actually, a king made up that way of measurement. The joke's on you.

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STOP ACTING DUMB. The point is that a foot is objectively made of twelve inches. IN OTHER WORDS, YES, I AM QUITE SURE.

Your right, I can't disprove that.

But you reject it, and find it false, as does anyone else that isn't batshit insane. And that is because it lacks evidence.

The barriers of good and evil are objective, good and evil exist none the less.

I challenge you right now to prove that good and evil are objective.

Please stop. XD

Those are my words.

You cannot. What you say, I will not believe. It is untrue.

It doesn't matter if you don't believe it.

And no, it's not untrue.

Also, if God just made more Gods...how is that any fun? People become friends for having things in common, not being exactly alike. Yes, I am saying God wanted friends, yes He got what He wanted: friends. Maybe that is why we are here. Phoenix made that idea come to thought.

God wanted friends? Impossible. If he's perfect, he had no need of friends.

So then you're arguing that God's not perfect. If he wanted friends, why couldn't he make perfect friends? If he had omnipotence, that's not out of his reach, is it?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Okay, but still. If he loves us, why would he let such terrible things happen? If you love something, you don't let it be tortured for eternity, right?

@Bold: I wouldn't

Multiple choice.

A. God ain't real/exist/whatever, point is there is no freaking god till proven.

B. God doesn't think like us. In other words, God could be that evil being Phoenix keeps bringing up.

C. The bible is completely wrong about God.

D. God can't do shit about it.

Those are just some choices for you, pick whichever you want. Mine's A.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Boo

[Defeatist Elitist]

You and me belong in the same religion ;)

Seriously though hell is translated in two languages in the Bible.

Hebrew and Greek

In Hebrew Hell=Hole in the Ground

In Greek Hell=Grave

Thoughts coming to mind? In my religion Hell is eternal death. Never being alive again. Gehenna hellfire as mentioned in Revelation is the second death. Look for that phrase! SECOND DEATH. To die twice you must live twice and that requires a resurrection. Some believe that those tossed in the pit of fire just burn alive forever. That warrants a sick and cruel God. Gehenna is a place for burning dead bodies not living ones. Those that die the second death are never brought back to life. So in my religion they just stay dead for eternity. Never another thought, never another moment of pain. Merciful yet still punishment for wickedness. Believe it or don't. That's not why I said it :)

Anywho Fox I hope this paints a better picture for a merciful God rather than the evil one the athiests hate and use.

Dude?

I'd rather suffer in hell for all eternity than cease to exist.

At least I'm still me. At least I STILL EXIST.

Besides, you get used to any pain after a while.

[WyvernSageLord]

Dude?

I'd rather suffer in hell for all eternity than cease to exist.

At least I'm still me. At least I STILL EXIST.

Besides, you get used to any pain after a while.

Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it. After all, endless days of excruciating pain would only bring about insanity. Haven't you heard of what they used to do to people in methods of torture in the old ages? Hell is said to be MUCH worse than that. You'd probably NOT be you any longer if you'd have to endure such inhuman torture methods of the past. Shit, you'd probably have a hard time enduring INTERROGATION torture methods!

Forgive me if that sounds antagonistic, but I couldn't resist! ._.;

Edited December 4, 2008 by WyvernSageLord

[Nightgraves]

@Bold: I wouldn't

Multiple choice.

A. God ain't real/exist/whatever, point is there is no freaking god till proven.

B. God doesn't think like us. In other words, God could be that evil being Phoenix keeps bringing up.

C. The bible is completely wrong about God.

D. God can't do shit about it.

Those are just some choices for you, pick whichever you want. Mine's A.

You place a number of option- but what if there are more?

[Defeatist Elitist]

Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it. After all, endless days of excruciating pain would only bring about insanity. Haven't you heard of what they used to do to people in methods of torture in the old ages? Hell is said to be MUCH worse than that. You'd probably NOT be you any longer if you'd have to endure such inhuman torture methods of the past. Shit, you'd probably have a hard time enduring INTERROGATION torture methods!

Forgive me if that sounds antagonistic, but I couldn't resist! ._.;

Better than not existing. :D

[Dr. Tarrasque]

You place a number of option- but what if there are more?

Those are just some choices for you, pick whichever you want. Mine's A.

I probably should've bolded that earlier. There's bound to be more options, point is that her answer depends on what she thinks. Of course, if some1 of her same religion could give her the absolute and unquestionable answer for that question, those options would go buh bye. Unless she's Atheist, good luck on that.

[Florete]

Better than not existing. :D

You're taking that pretty far. You'd rather be tortured for all eternity, losing all sense of yourself, than just end it all? That is pretty illogical.

[Phoenix]

Dude?

I'd rather suffer in hell for all eternity than cease to exist.

At least I'm still me. At least I STILL EXIST.

Besides, you get used to any pain after a while.

Well I hope for your sake that you don't mind being on fire forever instead of being unconscious :)

[WyvernSageLord]

Better than not existing. :D

I seriously agree with Red Fox and Phoenix here. I mean it's illogical enough to say that you'd rather be eternally tortured rather than just die and end it all. Come on, man. Haven't you ever KNOWN what people go through when they're tortured with inhuman methods? In reality? If you were to be subjected to endless days of inhuman torture? I seriously doubt you'd want to go on living; you'd want to end it all. Why? Because you're human.

Edited December 4, 2008 by WyvernSageLord

[Defeatist Elitist]

I put incredible stock in my own mind I guess. I've felt awful pain against which I had no defense or control before, and while thinking was hard, it would by no means drive me insane.

I seriously doubt that I would truly go insane.

[Phoenix]

I put incredible stock in my own mind I guess. I've felt awful pain against which I had no defense or control before, and while thinking was hard, it would by no means drive me insane.

I seriously doubt that I would truly go insane.

Maybe not in the first ten thousand years or so... how about 999,999,999,999,999,999 years later. Not one moment were you not in overwhelming pain. Just leave your hand on the stove for a few munutes and see what the Phoenix means.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Maybe not in the first ten thousand years or so... how about 999,999,999,999,999,999 years later. Not one moment were you not in overwhelming pain. Just leave your hand on the stove for a few munutes and see what the Phoenix means.

After the first year MAX I'd get used to it.

I dunno, have any of you guys really experienced pain before?

[Florete]

After the first year MAX I'd get used to it.

I dunno, have any of you guys really experienced pain before?

You're underestimating what Hell would be like for sure. If you seriously think you'd just be able to take and you'd be fine, you're probably already insane.

[Phoenix]

After the first year MAX I'd get used to it.

I dunno, have any of you guys really experienced pain before?

The Phoenix once:

Skipped slipped and barrel rolled down those rocky stares in old apartments

cut shin open on fire place

bitten by vicious parakeets

fallen numerous times

stubbed tow

minor burns

crotch shot victim

shot in foot with bbs

slammed foot with bbs

slammed head against random objects

slapped across face

figures crushed

dragged across street by dog on leash

hit in face with random objects flying over forty miles per hour

stomach hits

heartbreak

[Esau of Isaac]

I seriously agree with Red Fox and Phoenix here. I mean it's illogical enough to say that you'd rather be eternally tortured rather than just die and end it all. Come on, man. Haven't you ever KNOWN what people go through when they're tortured with inhuman methods? In reality? If you were to be subjected to endless days of inhuman torture? I seriously doubt you'd want to go on living; you'd want to end it all. Why? Because you're human.

This is true in our world, no doubt. Given someone knows what they're doing, they can have the individual in question begging to die, given enough time.

However, this is not to say that Heaven would be any different. It doesn't matter what method or area you go to when you die, you're going to eventually want to end your existence completely provided you have a functioning memory. If you can't die, it logically follows that the thing that you would eventually want more than anything is that which you cannot have; utter death.

You're underestimating what Hell would be like for sure. If you seriously think you'd just be able to take and you'd be fine, you're probably already insane.

Of course, Revan has a point as well; if you physically cannot die, there is a limited amount of time that will pass before the punishment becomes ordinary, expected, and ineffective. Sooner or later, given an infinite amount of time, you would become quite accustomed to the pain. This is an inevitability. You'd be altered from such a process, and if hell is really the worst kind of punishment that has ever been seen you'd probably want to end it all, but you'd eventually become quite acquainted with it all.

[Defeatist Elitist]

You're underestimating what Hell would be like for sure. If you seriously think you'd just be able to take and you'd be fine, you're probably already insane.

No, seriously, you guys probably underestimate the human body. You can adapt to any pain.

I've had a lot of the normal things happen to me, but I suffer from incredibly powerful headaches. When I was younger, I would be in so much pain that I would throw up. I used to spend whole nights just screaming. I've got a lot more control and resistance over it now though.

[Florete]

Of course, Revan has a point as well; if you physically cannot die, there is a limited amount of time that will pass before the punishment becomes ordinary, expected, and ineffective. Sooner or later, given an infinite amount of time, you would become quite accustomed to the pain. This is an inevitability. You'd be altered from such a process, and if hell is really the worst kind of punishment that has ever been seen you'd probably want to end it all, but you'd eventually become quite acquainted with it all.

No, seriously, you guys probably underestimate the human body. You can adapt to any pain.

I've had a lot of the normal things happen to me, but I suffer from incredibly powerful headaches. When I was younger, I would be in so much pain that I would throw up. I used to spend whole nights just screaming. I've got a lot more control and resistance over it now though.

You're both totally underestimating Hell. What the human body can take means nothing. Hell isn't an Earthly place, so you likely wouldn't have your Earthly body. I can't say I know exactly what Hell will be like, but endless torture is NOT something you want to go through nor will you grow "accustomed" to it. Saying "Screw Heaven, I want Hell" is completely illogical and insane. As far as I'm concerned, if that's how you see things, I really am done here, because that kind of thought process makes absolutely no sense.

[Phoenix]

Yeah I'm afraid of living for ever but the hell that the Catholics preach is just so much worse than standard Highlander eternity. I always knew that eternal life with a regular mind would become torture eventually, but that's where remember the things said in the Bible that pretty much paint a pretty picture of eternity with God. It can't be a trap could it?