What staff and skills should Legendary Elincia have?

[Lightcosmo]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

She stood up to Ludveck as best as she could because she didn't believe Crimea would be in good hands with him on the throne. She literally disarmed herself to get Zelgius to stand down, and successfully (until Valtome made him attack anyway, but Elincia could never have foreseen this, she was focused on Zelgius who WAS trying to avoid a fight since he said he would not harm an unarmed woman. She had no idea Valtome was there). And though I'm not 100% certain that Elincia actually fully made the choice rather than being completely indecisive until it was too late, she was going to let Lucia die so she could remain on the throne and protect Crimea and its people instead of sacrificing it to Ludveck save her best friend and stepsister. To stand there and let that happen, to watch it happen, even if Lincy wasn't completely decided on it, took real guts and courage. She wasn't expecting Ike and his group to show up, after all.

It just doesnt feel as impactful as her growth in PoR, in my opinion. Sure she has some, but not enough to where it stands out.

[Baldrick]

48 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

It just doesnt feel as impactful as her growth in PoR, in my opinion. Sure she has some, but not enough to where it stands out.

What growth does she have in PoR? She starts as a damsel in distress and ends as a damsel rescued by Ike and aided by Begnion. She can’t even damage Ashnard.

In RD Elincia grows from a paper queen to a legitimate ruler. She has the whole of part 2 where she is the protagonist and is one of the better options to defeat Ludveck, and in chapter 3 actually leads Crimea as an independent country, interjecting in the fight against the Laguz Alliance and Begnion and later organizing a temporary cease fire between the Apostle’s Army and Daein.

[Vicious Sal]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

I'm not saying you can't have a subjective opinion. I'm just challenging your logic which absolutely is "Shitty unit = armoured unit." I'm not even trying to argue that "High Move Flier = Good unit." I'm trying to argue that "High Move Flier != Armoured Unit", which I think should be alarmingly obvious. Your fine to hold an opinion, it just doesn't make sense.

You're so adamant you know what my opinion should be, but I'm going to state this one more time, quoted from this same page:

 

My logic is: "The game gives me te tools to play the maps in such a way that Elincia does not see much use and her possible movement therefore is wasted on me. She may as well be an armour unit since she doesn't need to go anywhere anyway for me to beat the maps in an efficient manner." 

So yes, you are completely right that "High move flier != Armoured unit", but to simplify it even more for you: My take is "high move flier that stays in one place the entire time because she isn't required to clear the maps efficiently = a unit that gameplay wise feels similar to how an armour knight plays"

What's 9 move going to do for you when you're not actively contributing towards clearing the map. Nothing.

 

I have not called Elincia a shitty unit, not have i ever stated that she IS an armoured unit. I have only stated that the way i play, she doesn't see much use. Because of that her high movement is wasted on me and because of that she plays like an armour unit for me personally. If I need to do a math test I am going to use the electronic calculator, not the abacus. The abacus might be in mint condition, but if there is a way to more efficiently do the math test, it might as well not be there at all.

 

So if you want to keep convincing me that you know my personal opinion, based on my own personal experience from playing RD, better than me, go ahead, but I'm done with this conversation. You keep on making statements as if you know my opinion better than myself, and that's just causing this discussion to go in circles, because you can't seem to handle the fact that someone has a different feel for a character based on their own way of playing the game.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

You're so adamant you know what my opinion should be, but I'm going to state this one more time, quoted from this same page:

 

My logic is: "The game gives me te tools to play the maps in such a way that Elincia does not see much use and her possible movement therefore is wasted on me. She may as well be an armour unit since she doesn't need to go anywhere anyway for me to beat the maps in an efficient manner." 

So yes, you are completely right that "High move flier != Armoured unit", but to simplify it even more for you: My take is "high move flier that stays in one place the entire time because she isn't required to clear the maps efficiently = a unit that gameplay wise feels similar to how an armour knight plays"

What's 9 move going to do for you when you're not actively contributing towards clearing the map. Nothing.

 

I have not called Elincia a shitty unit, not have i ever stated that she IS an armoured unit. I have only stated that the way i play, she doesn't see much use. Because of that her high movement is wasted on me and because of that she plays like an armour unit for me personally. If I need to do a math test I am going to use the electronic calculator, not the abacus. The abacus might be in mint condition, but if there is a way to more efficiently do the math test, it might as well not be there at all.

 

So if you want to keep convincing me that you know my personal opinion, based on my own personal experience from playing RD, better than me, go ahead, but I'm done with this conversation. You keep on making statements as if you know my opinion better than myself, and that's just causing this discussion to go in circles, because you can't seem to handle the fact that someone has a different feel for a character based on their own way of playing the game.

I'm not adamant of what your opinion should be at all. I don't care what your opinion is. I'm not sure how I can make it clearer that I'm attacking your logic, not your opinion itself. If someone wants a CRT shaded Elincia because they think those colours happen to make her look particularly cool or good on her, then fair enough, but if there reasoning is that they personally experienced the character that way due to their own faulty TV, then yeah, I'm going to point that reasoning out as ridiculous.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Jotari

[Lightcosmo]

8 hours ago, Baldrick said:

What growth does she have in PoR? She starts as a damsel in distress and ends as a damsel rescued by Ike and aided by Begnion. She can’t even damage Ashnard.

In RD Elincia grows from a paper queen to a legitimate ruler. She has the whole of part 2 where she is the protagonist and is one of the better options to defeat Ludveck, and in chapter 3 actually leads Crimea as an independent country, interjecting in the fight against the Laguz Alliance and Begnion and later organizing a temporary cease fire between the Apostle’s Army and Daein.

Well, considering how unsure she is when you first get to Begnion, fast forward to the point where Ike promotes, I'd say she's a lot stronger as a character there than before.

Her Actions in part 3 don't amount to much considering her screen time, she still has little time to grow as a character. But her growth as a character is my opinion on it, and as I see it, seeing her a few scenes doesn't allow her character to flourish at all. like sure, she calls a ceasefire, but in between that point, she isn't that important. But I can understand your side as well.

Also, when I considering a character growing, their combat utility isn't considered, as that has nothing to do with their character. Character development is what I mean.

Edited April 11, 2020 by lightcosmo

[Baldrick]

2 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

Well, considering how unsure she is when you first get to Begnion, fast forward to the point where Ike promotes, I'd say she's a lot stronger as a character there than before.

Not really, she relies on her retainers and Ike to fight her battles for her. This is demonstrated at the beginning of part 2 of RD, the nobles walk all over her. Her character is static in PoR.

2 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

Her Actions in part 3 don't amount to much considering her screen time, she still has little time to grow as a character. But her growth as a character is my opinion on it, and as I see it, seeing her a few scenes doesn't allow her character to flourish at all. like sure, she calls a ceasefire, but in between that point, she isn't that important.

She has sufficient scenes in part 3 to show how she is stronger than she was in PoR and the beginning of Part 2. It is the culmination of her character arc.

[Anacybele]

Wow, I didn't expect people to be arguing/debating over Elincia's character in here as much as they are... And I'm even more surprised that I've had little involvement in it. lol Well, I'm not complaining, I love seeing Lincy get good attention! She completely deserves it and I feel she's one of the most underrated characters in the series.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Anacybele

[Icelerate]

On 4/11/2020 at 10:37 AM, Baldrick said:

Not really, she relies on her retainers and Ike to fight her battles for her. This is demonstrated at the beginning of part 2 of RD, the nobles walk all over her. Her character is static in PoR.

 

If her character is static in PoR, did you change your mind about Elincia's slow burn character development throughout the Tellius games? 

[Sayyyaka]

It actually boggles my mind that people are saying a Legendary Elincia can't/shouldn't exist when Ryoma is a thing and many have expected a Xander to happen eventually.
Anyway I'll have to echo someone else's sentiments and say that an OC staff would probably serve her far better than a canon staff, as they'd likely limit the latter based on how it worked in its game, and I want Elincia to be good.  But if I had to pick a canon one, I'd go with the Matrona Staff, if only for the reason that I'd prefer Lehran to have it.

[Baldrick]

On 4/13/2020 at 8:19 AM, Icelerate said:

 

If her character is static in PoR, did you change your mind about Elincia's slow burn character development throughout the Tellius games? 

If a character takes a while to develop, is that not a slow burn development?

5 hours ago, Sayyyaka said:

It actually boggles my mind that people are saying a Legendary Elincia can't/shouldn't exist when Ryoma is a thing and many have expected a Xander to happen eventually.

Legendary Ryoma shouldn't exist, and neither should Legendary Elincia. And I say that as somebody who likes Elincia.

I'd rather RD Elincia be a different subcategory of unit.

[Sayyyaka]

22 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Legendary Ryoma shouldn't exist, and neither should Legendary Elincia. And I say that as somebody who likes Elincia.

I'd rather RD Elincia be a different subcategory of unit.

Oh, well that's fair.  I just don't understand some people's logic...

[Gregster101]

Honestly, why shouldn't Legendary Elincia exist? Tiki, Ryoma, and Julia all got Legendary alts even though they're pretty far from lord units, so why not Elincia as well? Legendary Elincia doesn't hurt anyone by existing.

[Benice]

44 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Legendary Ryoma shouldn't exist, and neither should Legendary Elincia. And I say that as somebody who likes Elincia.

I'd rather RD Elincia be a different subcategory of unit.

I agree with this; Elincia is one of my favourites from Tellius, and she IS far more deserving of a legendary than Ryoma, but I'd be rather upset if she got a legendary before Micaiah. And yeah, Tiki didn't really need a legendary either, but to me she's better than Ryoma.

That said, in the future, I'd want L! Elincia, just not before all of the lords.

Plot twist: Sothe is the next legendary hero because he's totally the main lord of RD.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, look, the fact is that legendary Ryoma, Tiki, and Julia do exist, so by that logic so should legendary Elincia. So what is even the point of debating this? And that's not what the thread is about anyway.

[Sayyyaka]

12 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

Honestly, why shouldn't Legendary Elincia exist? Tiki, Ryoma, and Julia all got Legendary alts even though they're pretty far from lord units, so why not Elincia as well? Legendary Elincia doesn't hurt anyone by existing.

Eventually we're going to run out of main leads and we'll start having Legendary Lewyns and Joshuas. Which I am perfectly fine with.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I think Tiki should be removed from the "what about Ryoma and Julia" discussion, personally. I mean...she's pretty major. And she's played a role over a multi-thousand year span, from Marth's age to Chrom's age. If any non-lord/designated "lead" character should have a Legendary, it's Tiki.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I think Tiki should be removed from the "what about Ryoma and Julia" discussion, personally. I mean...she's pretty major. And she's played a role over a multi-thousand year span, from Marth's age to Chrom's age. If any non-lord/designated "lead" character should have a Legendary, it's Tiki.

Plus it was also a chance to finally implement or Golden Book 2 Divine Dragon form (yes, Book 2, for some reason they redesigned Tiki's Divine Dragon Form for Mystery of the Emblem but only used it in the second half of the game. Then in Heroes they reused the gold sprite for her Book 1 brainwahsed incarnation, I guess because doing the grey or white design then would be a step backwards?). And of course that cute ass hood (though coming to think of it that's a Book 1 thing, dammnit IS why did you use two different dragon designs in the same game!?). Point being Legendary Tiki was an actual incarnation of Tiki we hadn't seen yet with prominent elements of her character not being represented before that point. They could have done all that and just attributed it to brainwash Tiki though (but that wouldn't have been nearly as cute), point being another (non seasonal) incarnation of Tiki was not unwarranted at that point.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Jotari

[SockPuppet]

Elincia should 100% get a Legendary alt, no question in my book. I actually would have imagined her with light a new Amiti... like, Radiant Amiti lol or some other kinda made up weapon. I would not mind her with a staff at all, but I just immediately associate her with her sword and that's pretty much it.

 

 

[Baldrick]

Julia inherits the power of Naga, the strongest of the Crusader weapons. There is no character in Jugdral more important, or more worthy of being made into a legend.

Most people ITT seem to be under the impression the definition of "legendary" is "is able to use the Seize command".

[Interdimensional Observer]

34 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Julia inherits the power of Naga, the strongest of the Crusader weapons. There is no character in Jugdral more important, or more worthy of being made into a legend.

Most people ITT seem to be under the impression the definition of "legendary" is "is able to use the Seize command".

It's not merely that, it's also narrative importance. Kaga once said Chapter 10 is the real end to Jugdral's plot- Seliph has avenged himself on Arvis- and everything else is clean up. Understanding this to mean FE4 (not only Gen 2, Kaga expressly preferred Seliph campaign over Sigurd's quest it seems) is merely Seliph's personal story, Julia becomes an afterthought of much lesser importance. She exists, to cast it in a most negative light, to sweep out the trash of Julius, Seliph already slit the throat of the noble and magnificent stag called Arvis.

 

--

Elincia is solidly a deuteragonist to me. From its inception PoR wasn't about Elincia, nothing of what we have of PoR beta notes, which isn't a lot actually, mentions her. PoR is Ike's story and Elincia just facilitates the journey.

RD did something quite interesting with her I don't think any other lord has had to deal with, even if it can be fairly critiqued. Part 2, despite its bumps, is excellent writing to me and it centers around Elincia's character development. Part 2 is filler, a way to transition from 1 to 3 without too much drama and whiplash, but they could've done far worse. Likewise, the Hawk Army in Part 4 is world-building and loose ends fluff, but to me it's well-written, and Elincia is part of it. From a mere helpless damsel in PoR, to a confident, steeled queen, able without feeling unworthy and inferior to stand aside the mighty Hawk King as his equal.

 

Whilst Legendary slots I'd say should go to protagonists first, deuteragonists to fill in what remains of the slots when the protagonists are exhausted is fine to me. Elincia can take one. A better Amiti seems boring to me, so I picked Matrona, because Laura or Rhys aren't likely to come and get it sometime soon.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer

[Anacybele]

21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

RD did something quite interesting with her I don't think any other lord has had to deal with, even if it can be fairly critiqued. Part 2, despite its bumps, is excellent writing to me and it centers around Elincia's character development. Part 2 is filler, a way to transition from 1 to 3 without too much drama and whiplash, but they could've done far worse. Likewise, Elincia's time in Part 4 is world-building and loose ends fluff, but to me it's well-written, and Elincia is part of it. From a mere helpless damsel in PoR, to a confident, steeled queen, able without feeling unworthy and inferior to stand aside the mighty Hawk King as his equal.

This stuff in addition to just how charming I find Lincy in PoR is why I love her so much! "Give them a sound thrashing!" XD She's really pretty to me too.

It always pains me that she isn't loved the way other female leads in this series are. Sure, Tellius is one of the lesser played sagas these days due to how expensive and rare it's become, but that hasn't stopped Micaiah's popularity. Elincia's had about the same amount of exposure to people as she has, honestly, if not more when you consider that she got a trophy in Smash and Micaiah didn't. Neither are spectacular units in the Tellius games either, with Micaiah being too fragile and slow and Elincia joining too late in PoR and not getting enough play time in RD (though when she is usable in RD, she's pretty decent). And both are good looking females.

So whatever has made Micaiah so appealing to people, I just don't see how it hasn't also helped Elincia gain popularity. She's a great unit in Heroes too, even if she isn't easy to get.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Anacybele

[Jotari]

55 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Julia inherits the power of Naga, the strongest of the Crusader weapons. There is no character in Jugdral more important, or more worthy of being made into a legend.

Most people ITT seem to be under the impression the definition of "legendary" is "is able to use the Seize command".

For what it's worth, Elincia was included in "Fire Emblem Leads" summoning focus, even though she's a sword unit and there's already more than enough red units in that category. So they put her in not because she needed to fill things out, but solely because they do value her as a lead character in the series. I think any unit featured on that banner could conceivably be receive a Legendary Alt. So legendary Ninan, legendary Sothe, legendary Shiida, all seem both likely and deserved to me (though not necessarily more deserved over other characters). EVen Legendary Tsubasa or Itsuki if they feel like promoting Tokyo Mirage Sessions that month. Legendary Lillina is the only one I don't really see happening, though even she was an intentional and unnecessary addition to the banner by IS, so she's on their radar.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Jotari

[Baldrick]

54 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It's not merely that, it's also narrative importance. Kaga once said Chapter 10 is the real end to Jugdral's plot- Seliph has avenged himself on Arvis- and everything else is clean up. Understanding this to mean FE4 (not only Gen 2, Kaga expressly preferred Seliph campaign over Sigurd's quest it seems) is merely Seliph's personal story, Julia becomes an afterthought of much lesser importance. She exists, to cast it in a most negative light, to sweep out the trash of Julius, Seliph already slit the throat of the noble and magnificent stag called Arvis.

Could you provide a source on that?

Kaga's "dream scenario" was a third generation in which, among other things, Julius would be freed from Lopt's control by Julia's love. Between that, Seliph's conversation with his parents in chapter 10, and the interconnectedness of the first five FE games through Naga, I find it hard to believe he considered Julia a narrative afterthought.

29 minutes ago, Jotari said:

For what it's worth, Elincia was included in "Fire Emblem Leads" summoning focus, 

"Legendary" doesn't mean "is a lead character", either.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Baldrick

[Jotari]

9 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Could you find a source on that?

Kaga's "dream scenario" was a third generation in which, among other things, Julius would be freed from Lopt's control by Julia's love. Between that, and the interconnectedness of the first five FE games through Naga, I find it hard to believe he considered Julia an afterthought.

"Legendary" doesn't mean "is a lead character", either.

Oh of course not, it's vague enough to mean basically anything at all.

[Baldrick]

27 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh of course not, it's vague enough to mean basically anything at all.

Everyone's criteria may differ, there's certainly some distinction that exists. I am not a legend, the average man on the street is not a legend. Boris Johnson is not a legend. George Washington arguably could be called a legend. King Arthur is certainly a legend. Bramimond is literally one of the "Eight Legends".

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Baldrick