What staff and skills should Legendary Elincia have?

[Jotari]

42 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Everyone's criteria may differ, there's certainly some distinction that exists. I am not a legend, the average man on the street is not a legend. Boris Johnson is not a legend. George Washington arguably could be called a legend. King Arthur is certainly a legend. Bramimond is literally one of the "Eight Legends".

 

Only the Heroes developer's criteria matters. And so far there definition for Legend does seem to be "Lead Character", the only exception being Female Grima who's a lead antagonist. Actual Legendary characters are in the Mythic section, but there's really no practical distinction I can see. With their own OC character sprinkled about in both categories. But really if Heroes have proven anything it's that they'll do whatever the hell they want. If Galzus was the next legendary Hero I wouldn't be all that surprised.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 hours ago, Baldrick said:

Could you provide a source on that?

I was being intentionally contrarian and putting the worst possible spin on it for the sake of perspective. But yes, the interview from 1996, the same year as Genealogy's release.

https://garmtranslations.wordpress.com/2019/02/13/fire-emblem-genealogy-of-the-holy-war-fan-special-roundtable-discussion/

The most relevant bit of it:

Spoiler

Heuga: I’m curious about Julia being the only character made to be overpowered against the final boss. You’d think that the legendary weapons and the protagonist would be even a little stronger against it.

Kaga’s comment: Julia is a human of course, but her role is similar to that of the Falchion in the previous games. It is still possible to defeat the final boss even without Julia, it’s just more troublesome (laughs). To tell the truth, Seliph’s arc reached its climax with the defeat of Arvis, so the Final Chapter is more like an extra addition.
Julia defeating Julius is not meant to come off as her defeating her brother, but more of her driving Loptyr out of her brother’s body. So, no matter how you look at it, it’s not wrong to say that Julia saved Julius. That’s why Julia is the one with the power to defeat Julius, and not anyone else.

So, Kaga did care for Julia, but at the same time he compares her to a weapon and says the final chapter was merely a bonus, which I take to mean not truly central to the narrative he was most focused on.

Never mind how Kaga wrote and himself saw his characters, is not the be all, end all of how a character is. After all, I'm sure 70-80% of FE4 players would agree that Kaga:

Kaga’s comment: Sigurd’s chapter was meant simply to be foreshadowing, leading up to Seliph’s chapter.

Was wrong about this. FE4 Gen 1's narrative is usually preferred to the 2nd Gen's, to call Sigurd's stuff just foreshadowing is to demean it and overvalue Seliph's simple liberation war.

 

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Legendary Lillina is the only one I don't really see happening, though even she was an intentional and unnecessary addition to the banner by IS, so she's on their radar.

Lilina is on the boxart of FE6, and inherited Caeda's ability to recruit random people. It's not her fault FE6 is a Roy monologue. Guinevere isn't playable except after 10 playthroughs and only in noncanonical Trial Maps, so I get why they didn't toss her on the box. If we went for narrative presence and gameplay usability, the female lead for FE6 would be Merlinus (or Elffin).

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I was being intentionally contrarian and putting the worst possible spin on it for the sake of perspective. But yes, the interview from 1996, the same year as Genealogy's release.

https://garmtranslations.wordpress.com/2019/02/13/fire-emblem-genealogy-of-the-holy-war-fan-special-roundtable-discussion/

The most relevant bit of it:

  Reveal hidden contents

Heuga: I’m curious about Julia being the only character made to be overpowered against the final boss. You’d think that the legendary weapons and the protagonist would be even a little stronger against it.

Kaga’s comment: Julia is a human of course, but her role is similar to that of the Falchion in the previous games. It is still possible to defeat the final boss even without Julia, it’s just more troublesome (laughs). To tell the truth, Seliph’s arc reached its climax with the defeat of Arvis, so the Final Chapter is more like an extra addition.
Julia defeating Julius is not meant to come off as her defeating her brother, but more of her driving Loptyr out of her brother’s body. So, no matter how you look at it, it’s not wrong to say that Julia saved Julius. That’s why Julia is the one with the power to defeat Julius, and not anyone else.

So, Kaga did care for Julia, but at the same time he compares her to a weapon and says the final chapter was merely a bonus, which I take to mean not truly central to the narrative he was most focused on.

Never mind how Kaga wrote and himself saw his characters, is not the be all, end all of how a character is. After all, I'm sure 70-80% of FE4 players would agree that Kaga:

Kaga’s comment: Sigurd’s chapter was meant simply to be foreshadowing, leading up to Seliph’s chapter.

Was wrong about this. FE4 Gen 1's narrative is usually preferred to the 2nd Gen's, to call Sigurd's stuff just foreshadowing is to demean it and overvalue Seliph's simple liberation war.

 

Lilina is on the boxart of FE6, and inherited Caeda's ability to recruit random people. It's not her fault FE6 is a Roy monologue. Guinevere isn't playable except after 10 playthroughs and only in noncanonical Trial Maps, so I get why they didn't toss her on the box. If we went for narrative presence and gameplay usability, the female lead for FE6 would be Merlinus (or Elffin).

Merlinus, truly the princess we deserve.

[The Roger The Paladin]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Merlinus, truly the princess we deserve.

"Lord Roy, it's a trap".

[Icelerate]

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

So, Kaga did care for Julia, but at the same time he compares her to a weapon and says the final chapter was merely a bonus, which I take to mean not truly central to the narrative he was most focused on.

Never mind how Kaga wrote and himself saw his characters, is not the be all, end all of how a character is. After all, I'm sure 70-80% of FE4 players would agree that Kaga:

Kaga’s comment: Sigurd’s chapter was meant simply to be foreshadowing, leading up to Seliph’s chapter.

Was wrong about this. FE4 Gen 1's narrative is usually preferred to the 2nd Gen's, to call Sigurd's stuff just foreshadowing is to demean it and overvalue Seliph's simple liberation war.

 

I think Kaga's interview kind of explains why I felt that chapter 10 was basically the climax of the story and that the final chapter was anticlimactic. The war was all but won by the time Manfroy decided to allow Julia fight on the battlefield killing whatever narrative tension was still left. PoR has a similar problem where once Ike defeats the Black Knight, the last chapters are anticlimactic. Considering how most people view FE4 and FE9 to have the best stories in the series, it is ironic that both those games have mediocre end game narrative. 

[Anacybele]

...Wow, how and why did this get so off topic? Can we not get the thread locked please...

[Fire Emblem Fan]

24 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

...Wow, how and why did this get so off topic? Can we not get the thread locked please...

The topic of "Ryoma/Julia/Tiki got a Legendary so Elincia should, too!" was brought up, so people began explaining why they (specifically Tiki and Julia) deserved their Legendary variants. It's pretty on-topic, as it does apply to Elincia as well.

[Anacybele]

44 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

The topic of "Ryoma/Julia/Tiki got a Legendary so Elincia should, too!" was brought up, so people began explaining why they (specifically Tiki and Julia) deserved their Legendary variants. It's pretty on-topic, as it does apply to Elincia as well.

Except this thread isn't about Julia, Tiki, or Ryoma, it's about Elincia and what she should get in her legendary version kit. So it is off topic.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Anacybele

[Icelerate]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Except this thread isn't about Julia, Tiki, or Ryoma, it's about Elincia and what she should get in her legendary version kit. So it is off topic.

I think she should get atk/spd bond 4 to show that her bond with her retainers empowers her. Her B skill should be wrathful staff to show she's not a weak little princess. Her C skill can be ground orders to reference the fact she gives orders to her retainers who are ground units.  

Her weapon can be whatever staff. What type of effects do you want in her staff? I think she should have a prf gravity staff to reference her third tier mastery skill stun. But I don't want to turn her into Brave Camilla 2.0 so let's also give her mystic boost to reference renewal. So instead of getting atk/spd+3 on initiation, she gets mystic boost. She can get a prf healing skill but I'm not sure what effect. Maybe all stats +6 instead of the dual +6 stats of the balm skills. 

[Anacybele]

57 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I think she should get atk/spd bond 4 to show that her bond with her retainers empowers her. Her B skill should be wrathful staff to show she's not a weak little princess. Her C skill can be ground orders to reference the fact she gives orders to her retainers who are ground units.  

I already added Wrathful to her weapon, so I'd prefer Dazzling Staff. Dazzling should be her B because not as many units have that skill. It's harder to get fodder for Dazzling than Wrathful.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

6 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Except this thread isn't about Julia, Tiki, or Ryoma, it's about Elincia and what she should get in her legendary version kit. So it is off topic.

I mean...

On 4/10/2020 at 9:15 AM, Anacybele said:

She's still the main female of the game and is also considered a lead by IS as well. And Ryoma, Tiki, and Julia all got to be legendaries, and they're not main characters of their games, as they weren't even part of the leads banner. Elincia was, so why would she not be up for contention?

 

On 4/10/2020 at 10:04 AM, Anacybele said:

Not to mention Ryoma and Azura without Corrin now is also weird. But the point is that these legendaries exist, so there's no reason they would and legendary Elincia shouldn't imo. I'm not sure I'd have thought Lincy was up for contention if not for those three, honestly.

 

On 4/10/2020 at 10:37 AM, Anacybele said:

Oh yeah, she was, that's right. But my point does still stand about Ryoma and Tiki, yes.

You were also a part of the conversation. But, as you wish, that topic will end.

__________________________________________________________

I think Elincia should have some form of "splash healing" built directly into her staff. They'd have to work out a way for it to not be too overpowered, but give her that, along with built in Wrathful/Dazzling staff, and maybe stat boosting or something. Generic, but always always useful, and makes for good combat healers.

[Anacybele]

22 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

You were also a part of the conversation. But, as you wish, that topic will end.

Only at the beginning, yes. But I ended it. Other people continued it.

[Icelerate]

4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I already added Wrathful to her weapon, so I'd prefer Dazzling Staff. Dazzling should be her B because not as many units have that skill. It's harder to get fodder for Dazzling than Wrathful.

Weapon standard is +3 def, but even still, having +5 def won't help her much due to being a flier. I know you want to stick to canon but unit viability is something to keep in mind. I like the candle light effect better than gravity because I do not want to see Brave Camilla redux. 

Also, her special will help creating effective stall teams in AR. 

Crimea's might is a cool skill but I would make it so that she also grants herself those buffs like L!Roy and L!Tiki. I prefer atk/spd buff because she herself is an offensive unit, not defensive. 

[Anacybele]

9 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Weapon standard is +3 def, but even still, having +5 def won't help her much due to being a flier. I know you want to stick to canon but unit viability is something to keep in mind. I like the candle light effect better than gravity because I do not want to see Brave Camilla redux. 

Also, her special will help creating effective stall teams in AR. 

Crimea's might is a cool skill but I would make it so that she also grants herself those buffs like L!Roy and L!Tiki. I prefer atk/spd buff because she herself is an offensive unit, not defensive. 

I like your ideas here, but I was going for a supportive Elincia rather than an offensive one here, because, well, healers in Heroes are not generally known for their offense.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Only at the beginning, yes. But I ended it. Other people continued it.

If people continued it, then you didn't end it! 😛 Regardless, I think it's probably an inevitable topic that's gonna pop up whenever someone like Elincia, Xander, Ninian, etc. are talked about as potential Legendary units. I think that's good, though, because those kinds of talks actually seem to produce ideas about how those characters could function as a Legendary, as we see with Elincia in this topic. There's quite a few nice ideas for a Legendary Elincia here.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I like your ideas here, but I was going for a supportive Elincia rather than an offensive one here, because, well, healers in Heroes are not generally known for their offense.

I'd go all out then and have her increase battle stats too then. Just buffing adjacent units makes it only a slightly better Fortify Cavalry. Either that or change it to 2 squares instead of just adjacent.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Jotari

[Anacybele]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

I'd go all out then and have her increase battle stats too then. Just buffing adjacent units makes it only a slightly better Fortify Cavalry. Either that or change it to 2 squares instead of just adjacent.

I thought about that, but then I wondered if that might be too OP along with her special. Sounds good then.

8 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

If people continued it, then you didn't end it! 😛 Regardless, I think it's probably an inevitable topic that's gonna pop up whenever someone like Elincia, Xander, Ninian, etc. are talked about as potential Legendary units. I think that's good, though, because those kinds of talks actually seem to produce ideas about how those characters could function as a Legendary, as we see with Elincia in this topic. There's quite a few nice ideas for a Legendary Elincia here.

Well, I tried to end it then. But fair point, I suppose.