Three Houses missed a golden opportunity with the Graveyard.

[Samz707]

It occurred to me today while playing GTA IV Lost and Damned DLC that the devs missed a pretty good idea for the Graveyard area:
In the Lost and the Damned, there is a perma-death system involving generic gang members, there are 24 "Generic" gang members with unique names, if they survive the Gang Warfare side-missions, they get more intelligent AI/better weapons while if they die, they get replaced.

However the Lost MC Clubhouse (Which functions as your safe-house) has a Memorial Wall, while 4 entries on it get added over the duration of the story, the 24 generics will actually get their picture and a name plaque added to the wall. (If more than 24 Gang members die, the game does start recycling them.)

In addition, for various story-line deaths in various games in the series, extra graves do actually get added to the in-game graveyard areas (Such as in Liberty City Stories) for the named characters.

Since Three Houses has a graveyard area, I feel they should have made it slightly bigger but make it so graves for any of your units who die get added to it. (and in the case of members of royalty and such likely to have the body sent home, a small shrine of sorts dedicated to their memory placed there.) 

So if say, Seteth died, you'd find his grave there if you walked down there after the battle.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Yeah, us XCOM fans have also been asking for a "memorial" that tracks the units you've lost. Though some elements are not compatible with Fire Emblem, such as a photograph of that person (photography does not exist in any fire emblem universe, it would have to be an artist's rendition). A lot of us have also been asking for unique interactions where characters and NPCs react to a unit's death. Buuuuut, permadeath has just beem pushed farther and farther from the fire emblem experience that we're kind of asking for content the player would never see unless the game is truly built around  and encourages the player to accept permadeath.

[Interdimensional Observer]

This idea was used for Berwick Saga I believe. You get a rare items for every four characters that die, up to 16 deaths. Valkyria Chronicles 4 has a Cenotaph where you can revive dead characters in the postgame, and I think if a character dies, you get a little memento accessory from them, the bonuses offered are generic, but the item itself is individualized.

Casual mode stands in the way of any graveyard idea though. No locking content to Classic.

[Benice]

Yeah, that's something that Berwick Saga did that I really liked too; I also liked it how all equipment that the uni had would be given to you by the gravekeeper when you go to read their epitaph. (In the case of Berwick, it'd usually just describe who they were and that their life was cut short by the war.) It was a nice touch, and the lack of music aside from environmental noises made it really solemn.

Edit: adding to what @Interdimensional Observer said about rare items, that's something I'd wanna see in the next FE as well.

(For those curious, you get an item that massively improves avoid at four deaths, one that massively improves hit at eight, one that gives a unit the hide skill at twelve deaths, and a absurdly powerful axe at 16.)

Edited December 11, 2020 by Benice

[Sir Gerwald of Vallora]

I think its because IS recognized that the majority of players will play on casual, and why put effort into something a large portion of the player base will never see. I do agree though. I feel it would be way more impactful if you could pay respects to fallen comrades.

[indigoasis]

When I first read the OP, I thought, "But the graveyard would be way too small to fit everyone if they're all dead."

Anyway, I think a memorial area would be a really good addition. The ending cards that you see at the end of the game (the ones that give little blurbs about what the characters did after the game's end) are nice, but what about the units that don't make it to the end? Giving those characters a memorial to pay tribute to every once in a while sounds pretty nice, and can emulate how losing someone close to you feels.

For the end cards, maybe blurbs about how a character's death affected the rest of the game's world could be a nice addition. End cards for characters in SoV can change depending on who's dead or alive. For instance, Gray's end card (if Tobin is dead) mentions how he became alcoholic, but Clair pulled him out of it, eventually leading to their union and Gray naming his son Tobin. That's how a character's death impacts other characters, but not how their death impacted the world in their own end card. Obviously, Tobin's death card would mention Gray, but it could also mention how it affected Alm, or talk about how Tobin's parents were affected. 

2 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

A lot of us have also been asking for unique interactions where characters and NPCs react to a unit's death.

They sorta did this with SoV with post-battle mourning quotes, but it's probably not what you're looking for. You can tell who's mourning who, and who's quotes are just kinda... generic. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by indigoasis

[Zapp Branniglenn]

22 minutes ago, indigoasis said:

They sorta did this with SoV with post-battle mourning quotes, but it's probably not what you're looking for. You can tell who's mourning who, and who's quotes are just kinda... generic. 

Huh, I've never seen these. I know the game has some story variations based on a character being dead. This to me is one of the best scenes in a fire emblem game, and most players will never see it, because it's the same game they introduced the turnwheel in. All of my deaths that I didn't turnwheel for were in the final battle, and I guess the game doesn't have mourning quotes for that map

Edited December 11, 2020 by Glennstavos

[L3xandr3]

52 minutes ago, indigoasis said:

They sorta did this with SoV with post-battle mourning quotes, but it's probably not what you're looking for. You can tell who's mourning who, and who's quotes are just kinda... generic. 

You forgot the fact that some character's (Forsyth and Gray, maybe some others) mentions that their dead friends. See below for Gray's.

Spoiler

(If both Tobin and Clair are alive)

As a member of the One Kingdom's Brotherhood of Knights, Gray worked diligently at restoring the continent. He applied himself equally to winning Clair's heart, and beat Tobin out in the end. As he was heard to say, "Pick the guy with the big heart, not the pretty face."

 

(If Clair is alive but Tobin is dead)

Devastated by Tobin's death, Gray was nearly lost to the demon drink until Clair convinced him to clean up. After declining knighthoods in the One Kingdom, the two married and lived out quiet lives. Gray was especially fond of his son, whom he named after his friend.

 

(If Clair is dead)

Having lost the woman he loved, Gray surprised even himself by embracing the life of a vagabond and setting off for parts unknown. His friends spared no effort in attempting to track him down, but it was to no avail.

So, clearly IS both can and is able to do things like this, but didn't for TH. Would've been pretty cool, but alas.

[Jotari]

I agree, that would have been a fantastic idea. And, in retrospect, quite obvious. But I think it's clear to see that the rewind mechanic and the lack of later game recruits that permadeath was not on their radar when they made this game.

Funnily enough I saw something like this once when I watched an outdoor production of the four King of England Shakespere plays (Richard III, Henry IV Part 1, Henry IV Part 2 and Henry V). Richard III dies at the end of his plays (spoiler for a five hundred year old work by, more or less, the most renowned writers in human history I guess). The proceeding act break had a headsman apparently just finishing off a grave in an area just a little way from the stage. Each proceeding act break featured more graves for the characters that died throughout the plays. It was a really nice touch.

Uh...back to Fire Emblem.

1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

Huh, I've never seen these. I know the game has some story variations based on a character being dead. This to me is one of the best scenes in a fire emblem game, and most players will never see it, because it's the same game they introduced the turnwheel in. All of my deaths that I didn't turnwheel for were in the final battle, and I guess the game doesn't have mourning quotes for that map

Shadows of Valentia also has the hilarious moment where Leon reacts to Valbar's prerecruitment death and if you turn down his recruitment option he immediatly flips back to his regular refusal quote, completely shifting the tone of the conversation.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Jotari

[nedya]

Huh so it can be part of the nemesis system i came up with nice!

Edited December 11, 2020 by nedya

[lenticular]

14 hours ago, Benice said:

(For those curious, you get an item that massively improves avoid at four deaths, one that massively improves hit at eight, one that gives a unit the hide skill at twelve deaths, and a absurdly powerful axe at 16.)

How does that work out in practice? Because to me, it sounds terrible. It reminds me of the gaiden chapters from DS Shadow Dragon, and that's never a good thing. I'm not sure I can think of a single game that has done "reward for failure" in a way that I've really liked.

[Benice]

1 hour ago, lenticular said:

How does that work out in practice? Because to me, it sounds terrible. It reminds me of the gaiden chapters from DS Shadow Dragon, and that's never a good thing. I'm not sure I can think of a single game that has done "reward for failure" in a way that I've really liked.

It's basically just if you're ironmanning or possibly some LTC stuff. It's almost certainly better not to sacrifice units to get those items. Especially since Berwick has a comparatively small cast; only about 28, and each unit is extremely unique. Because of the way Berwick Saga works, a base level unit you get in the first map of the game, (he's not a prepromote, for the record) can still be extremely good in endgame for two skills that he has. Similarly, killing Ruby makes you lose out on the best unit in the game, so on and so forth. It's possible that it could be abused, but I really doubt it.

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Benice said:

Especially since Berwick has a comparatively small cast; only about 28, and each unit is extremely unique. Because of the way Berwick Saga works, a base level unit you get in the first map of the game, (he's not a prepromote, for the record) can still be extremely good in endgame for two skills that he has. Similarly, killing Ruby makes you lose out on the best unit in the game, so on and so forth. It's possible that it could be abused, but I really doubt it.

I counted 35, thats very small. Gaiden has 15-17 units per side, Genealogy 24 per generation, but in terms of an entire "normal" game, only Sacred Stones without including the Creature Campaign has a smaller roster, at 33. Not sure on 3H in practice, it has more characters in total then Berwick, but route exclusives could dip it below BS quite possibly.

Character interconnectedness sounds like it could be a little fun if you wanted the wolf axe and were deciding who you would offer to Gerxel (or whatevs the evil god is called) for it. Blonde Lordy is an obvs no, Blue "Incest" is impossible, Brown Beauty comes so late she should be spared solely because if you're gonna go for the axe, why not get it pronto?

[indigoasis]

15 hours ago, L3xandr3 said:

You forgot the fact that some character's (Forsyth and Gray, maybe some others) mentions that their dead friends. See below for Gray's.

  Hide contents

(If both Tobin and Clair are alive)

As a member of the One Kingdom's Brotherhood of Knights, Gray worked diligently at restoring the continent. He applied himself equally to winning Clair's heart, and beat Tobin out in the end. As he was heard to say, "Pick the guy with the big heart, not the pretty face."

 

(If Clair is alive but Tobin is dead)

Devastated by Tobin's death, Gray was nearly lost to the demon drink until Clair convinced him to clean up. After declining knighthoods in the One Kingdom, the two married and lived out quiet lives. Gray was especially fond of his son, whom he named after his friend.

 

(If Clair is dead)

Having lost the woman he loved, Gray surprised even himself by embracing the life of a vagabond and setting off for parts unknown. His friends spared no effort in attempting to track him down, but it was to no avail.

So, clearly IS both can and is able to do things like this, but didn't for TH. Would've been pretty cool, but alas.

B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but... I DID mention that tho 😞

16 hours ago, indigoasis said:

For the end cards, maybe blurbs about how a character's death affected the rest of the game's world could be a nice addition. End cards for characters in SoV can change depending on who's dead or alive. For instance, Gray's end card (if Tobin is dead) mentions how he became alcoholic, but Clair pulled him out of it, eventually leading to their union and Gray naming his son Tobin. That's how a character's death impacts other characters, but not how their death impacted the world in their own end card. Obviously, Tobin's death card would mention Gray, but it could also mention how it affected Alm, or talk about how Tobin's parents were affected. 

I used the bolded part as part of an example for an idea. I didn't forget, I've played the game dagnabbit.

Jokes aside, little things like what they did in SoV with certain character deaths affecting certain scenes or other characters' endings is something I wish Fire Emblem will do more of in the future. It adds a bit of realism (or humanity) to the whole thing... well, as realistic as a world filled with transforming dragon people and mechanical war horses with missile launchers can get, anyhow.

[L3xandr3]

19 minutes ago, indigoasis said:

B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but... I DID mention that tho 😞

My apologies. It sounded like you were only talking about the bit after the battle where a unit dies and their friend has a unique quote. Like this bit below.

Spoiler

Forsyth after a battle where Python died: "Python, what are you doing, that's no place to sleep! Python, get up... Python?" (May not be precisely correct, going off memory here)

[indigoasis]

1 minute ago, L3xandr3 said:

My apologies. It sounded like you were only talking about the bit after the battle where a unit dies and their friend has a unique quote. Like this bit below.

  Hide contents

Forsyth after a battle where Python died: "Python, what are you doing, that's no place to sleep! Python, get up... Python?" (May not be precisely correct, going off memory here)

Yeah, no worries bro, I don't mind. 

And fun fact: Clive and Forsyth are tied with the most after-battle mourning quotes, having 3 each (Clive has one for Clair and Mathilda + a generic quote, and Forsyth has one for Clive and Python + a generic quote).

[Benice]

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Character interconnectedness sounds like it could be a little fun if you wanted the wolf axe and were deciding who you would offer to Gerxel (or whatevs the evil god is called) for it.

For the glory of Father Raze! Who needs Pallas Leia?! WHO NEEDS FLIERS?! I HAVE DERRICK WITH THE KONIGSWOLF!

I do feel like killing off units isn't the "optimal" way to play, but as you pointed out, it's some kind of fun thing you could do just to mess around. You do miss out on a metric ton of content if a unit dies, though...

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

counted 35, thats very small

I am good at count. In retrospect, I know I forgot Simp, Miss-man and Thaddy, but I wonder who else I missed...