Crystal Shards Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Well, yeah, it's a good idea to open a debate on everything.It is not, however, a good idea to endlessly argue and pour energy into that debate when you aren't accomplishing anything. Throw your energy somewhere else. This is a forum. The idea is to post. If you don't share the passion some do for debate, then stay out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YokaiKnight Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Except giving information on your side, so that someone else who was either undecided or was for the other side ends up liking your idea better, and in turn increases support for one side, and that support builds with more people over time, and eventually all those people have the potential to get together and actually change something they find unjust... I'm pretty sure that falls under accomplishing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 I'm pretty sure that falls under accomplishing something. You and I agree then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 There's this wonderful thing called voting to decide which opinion will be the public's policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 There's this wonderful thing called voting to decide which opinion will be the public's policy. But if no one is swayed to one side or the other by giving facts and educating them on both sides, it pretty much defeats the point of voting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolDeath Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 No matter what your opinion, neither side is EVER going to change their mind. Try not to take offense, but I think this just means you suck at debating. If you commit the time and effort needed to be helpful, informative, and not belligerent you might be surprised how many people will change their minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Judy Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Try not to take offense, but I think this just means you suck at debating. If you commit the time and effort needed to be helpful, informative, and not belligerent you might be surprised how many people will change their minds. I agree but its very unlikey for people to change their minds. People are way too proud and stubborn to admit defeat publicy. So sometimes debates I personally think can be pointless if both sides are not going to be open minded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 But if no one is swayed to one side or the other by giving facts and educating them on both sides, it pretty much defeats the point of voting... I didn't mean to imply that no one should have an opinion, just prepare to be on the losing side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolDeath Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 I agree but its very unlikey for people to change their minds. People are way too proud and stubborn to admit defeat publicy. So sometimes debates I personally think can be pointless if both sides are not going to be open minded. I don't think it's so important that they admit defeat, their actual change in opinion should be what matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Shards Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 But if no one is swayed to one side or the other by giving facts and educating them on both sides, it pretty much defeats the point of voting... Exactly. Voting on a topic everyone is ignorant of (or a large amount of people anyway) isn't really beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 (edited) There's this wonderful thing called voting to decide which opinion will be the public's policy. That system also unjustly ended the marriages of homosexual couples in California, but I digress. Edited November 26, 2008 by Fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Unjust? The system decides what is just. Last I knew that is being reviewed as unconstitutional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolDeath Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 (edited) www.mormonsstoleourrights.com Enjoy. Edited November 26, 2008 by Death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 I think it's horrible, too. I don't live in California or I would have voted against it. You don't have to convince me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Unjust? The system decides what is just. Last I knew that is being reviewed as unconstitutional. The system decides what is just in the system's eyes. That's about all. It may be justice in that it's legal, but that doesn't necessarily make it just. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knife Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Yeah, opinions suck. Yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 (edited) Exactly. Voting on a topic everyone is ignorant of (or a large amount of people anyway) isn't really beneficial. Exactly. Plus as I said before, we live in a place that allows us to get educated on these subjects, and to have our own opinion instead of the government always deciding what is good for us. People had to die to give us these rights, so why are people not using them? Fear of others disagreeing? Fear of people killing them over it? The ones who gave their lives for our rights weren't afraid of it. Well that explains why terrorism works then, people are afraid to stand up for things. Not to be mean here Toa Lord Sothe, but I think you are letting your fear overcome you. You're afraid of confrontation. If your friends can not look past your opinions and still be your friends, they weren't your friends to begin with. Take me and ZXValaRevan for example. We don't always agree 100% on things, but we're still friends. NO ONE that is a true friend is expecting you to agree 100% with them. Don't be afraid to have an opinion and express it, because if you never express your opinions, you'll spend the rest of your life doing things you hate, and being told what to do, because people take advantage of people who don't like to take a side, more than those who do sadly. Edited November 26, 2008 by Cynthia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 The system decides what is just in the system's eyes. That's about all. It may be justice in that it's legal, but that doesn't necessarily make it just. It doesn't necessarily make it unjust, either. It really depends on your interpretation of fair treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGV Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Yeah, opinions suck. Yeah. damn right they do except for mine :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 It doesn't necessarily make it unjust, either. It really depends on your interpretation of fair treatment. I did not say it made it unjust objectively. Yeah, opinions suck. Yeah. That's an opinion. MIND BLOWN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
California Mountain Snake Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Hell, that's how things like slavery ended. Someone thought it was right, and someone else thought it was wrong, if no one voiced they thought it was wrong, then well we'd all have slaves still. Comparing abortion to slavery is ignorant and completely incorrect. Slavery involves the involuntary subjugation of other people, as does banning gay marriage, and most other civil rights issues. Basically, it involves legally sanctioning one group to have dominance over another group in terms of preventing certain people from making choices available to the rest of us. That's why these people need outsiders to stand up for them, because they are legally stripped of their right to stand up for themselves. Unlike enslaving other people or controlling someone else's actions, abortion is a completely voluntary and personal choice, available universally to all people in this country. You're not trying to tell someone else to live, you're deciding how you want to live. These are completely different dynamics. The OP is correct in saying that it's impossible to argue successfully about this. Whether you disagree or agree with abortion, why should you have the right to tell anyone else how to think about a choice that only affects them? It's simple, you don't have that right, and "arguing" about this point is futile, because everyone is entitled to their own personal opinion on this matter, and it's true that you can never change anyone else's opinion on the matter. You're not enslaving people or hurting other people, so keep your nose out. This isn't a debate about whether debate in general is valid or not, it's about whether debate over personal choices is valid. Don't attempt to simplify it because you're just creating a strawman argument for your own satisfaction. You're not going to see "debates" over one person's choice to belong to certain religion, or critiques on a member who applies dadaism to his everyday life, and neither should people tell others to feel a certain way about abortion. It's simply none of your business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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