FE5 Tier List

[Salad Utensil]

Selphina > Robert wtf

Stop hyping her up. Maybe above Conomore, but above Robert? Not a chance. I'm sure we have enemy stats, but I can't find them. Once I do, it should be very easy to do Robert >>> Selphina.

I only gave that to avoid controversy. To be honest I think they are similar. Selphina is a glass cannon and robert is more stable and balanced. I just wanted to argue the prepromotes up a bit.

[_____]

Differences between base Selphina and Robert is she's faster and has access to every bow she can dream of, something Robert will be lucky to ever get. He gets stronger, but she has Duel. He's got 3 PCR, but she has more skill and supports, along with access to Killer Bows far before Robert does. She also has more skill while keeping up with luck, so she will hti mroe often (small point I know). One thing she can do damn well better than he is fighting people that can counter them both-mages. This is due to her higher magic stat. As for durability, he has 1 more HP while she has 2 def and 3 magic. His growths aren't incredibly superior in those departments, so he takes a while to catch up to Def, and can't match her magic, though he will have a bit more HP. Speed is a rather null issue, as she'll have plenty, and has a 2 point lead on him anyways.

I don't need to compare them to enemies, because Selphina for all instances starts off superior to him already. In fact, 2 levels and I can promote Selphina to have something vastly superior to Robert for a good while. In this comparison, he starts in the negative and both have the same rolls.

And then Duel causes her to be one-rounded by nearly everything, so Robert wins durability by a mile. It's better offense earlier on versus better durability forever and better offense later. Also, if Selphina wants gets the Knight's Proof she wants so much, we should give Robert something like the Elite manual to compensate. His only real competition would be Carrion and the Lenster Knights, while everyone wants a Knight's Proof with stat caps at 20.

[Salad Utensil]

Differences between base Selphina and Robert is she's faster and has access to every bow she can dream of, something Robert will be lucky to ever get. He gets stronger, but she has Duel. He's got 3 PCR, but she has more skill and supports, along with access to Killer Bows far before Robert does. She also has more skill while keeping up with luck, so she will hti mroe often (small point I know). One thing she can do damn well better than he is fighting people that can counter them both-mages. This is due to her higher magic stat. As for durability, he has 1 more HP while she has 2 def and 3 magic. His growths aren't incredibly superior in those departments, so he takes a while to catch up to Def, and can't match her magic, though he will have a bit more HP. Speed is a rather null issue, as she'll have plenty, and has a 2 point lead on him anyways.

I don't need to compare them to enemies, because Selphina for all instances starts off superior to him already. In fact, 2 levels and I can promote Selphina to have something vastly superior to Robert for a good while. In this comparison, he starts in the negative and both have the same rolls.

And then Duel causes her to be one-rounded by nearly everything, so Robert wins durability by a mile. It's better offense earlier on versus better durability forever and better offense later. Also, if Selphina wants gets the Knight's Proof she wants so much, we should give Robert something like the Elite manual to compensate. His only real competition would be Carrion and the Lenster Knights, while everyone wants a Knight's Proof with stat caps at 20.

I give elite to karin actually. I never use archers in this game, but robert apparently isn't that hard to reach B in this game. He only needs 100 hits with a bow to reach C and then can be promoted with a knight's proof to reach B by mid-endgame. Weapon leveling isn't THAT slow in this game. By Xavier chapter I was even able to have Asvel use those meteor tomes you get a billion of to take out the Freege armors. It only took 150 hits with fire and a promotion to reach A. Since asvel double's and relies on 2 hits or more to kill fire leveled fast. I assume since robert has low strength and high speed to double bows can level fast for him. There is also an area in chapter 10, 12, and 14 just begging to raise his bow level while the main group does other stuff. Brave bow probably isn't even needed to kill early on anyway so Selphina's weapon levels are probably kinda overkill and her durability kinda sucks too. If Mekkah ever returns to update the thread, Selphina looks like bottom low material.

Edit: also why the heck are the lenster people above Ralph and Cyas who are actually quite decent without needing to put work into them?

Edited August 15, 2009 by Brighton

[_____]

I give elite to karin actually.

She has all of Manster to level up and she's not really underleveled.

[grandjackal]

And then Duel causes her to be one-rounded by nearly everything, so Robert wins durability by a mile. It's better offense earlier on versus better durability forever and better offense later. Also, if Selphina wants gets the Knight's Proof she wants so much, we should give Robert something like the Elite manual to compensate. His only real competition would be Carrion and the Lenster Knights, while everyone wants a Knight's Proof with stat caps at 20.

Irellevent, if you're an archer AND on a horse AND have canto, keeping alive should not be hard. In truth it's far better offense early on and Duel still helping your case anyways later vs. Great offense later while lagging behind a bit early on.

Difference between Elite and Knight Proof is everyone unpromoted once one anyways when working with a team, so everyone's getting theirs regardless. The fact she's 2 levels closer than Robert is, advantage hers. Everyone doesn't need Elite, but they certainly WANT it to make them even more powerful post promotion. I'd consider an elite manual worse than knight proof.

I give elite to karin actually. I never use archers in this game, but robert apparently isn't that hard to reach B in this game. He only needs 100 hits with a bow to reach C and then can be promoted with a knight's proof to reach B by mid-endgame. Weapon leveling isn't THAT slow in this game. By Xavier chapter I was even able to have Asvel use those meteor tomes you get a billion of to take out the Freege armors. It only took 150 hits with fire and a promotion to reach A. Since asvel double's and relies on 2 hits or more to kill fire leveled fast. I assume since robert has low strength and high speed to double bows can level fast for him. There is also an area in chapter 10, 12, and 14 just begging to raise his bow level while the main group does other stuff. Brave bow probably isn't even needed to kill early on anyway so Selphina's weapon levels are probably kinda overkill and her durability kinda sucks too. If Mekkah ever returns to update the thread, Selphina looks like top of low material to be honest or bottom of lower mid.

Either way, I don't see her in low. As a note, that is slower than FE6's weapon levels...Which are slow.

[_____]

Irellevent, if you're an archer AND on a horse AND have canto, keeping alive should not be hard.

For the last time, you can not disregard the durability of a character just because they don't have an enemy phase.

In truth it's far better offense early on and Duel still helping your case anyways later vs. Great offense later while lagging behind a bit early on.

And durability early and later on. Don't forget that.

Difference between Elite and Knight Proof is everyone unpromoted once one anyways when working with a team, so everyone's getting theirs regardless. The fact she's 2 levels closer than Robert is, advantage hers. Everyone doesn't need Elite, but they certainly WANT it to make them even more powerful post promotion. I'd consider an elite manual worse than knight proof.

I don't agree. We only have 5 Knight's Proofs by chapter 9. Considering how everyone needs/wants one and Selphina does not make the best use of it... Think of it like the Crown in Part 3 of Radiant Dawn. Robert, I would argue, makes the best use of the Elite Manual, so I would not consider Robert taking the Elite Manual as worse than Selphina taking the Knight's Proof.

Either way, I don't see her in low. As a note, that is slower than FE6's weapon levels...Which are slow.

B-but...! A rank Lances by Chapter 7 for Bors!

Compare her to the units above her. Don't try to make her jump 2 tiers.

[Mekkah]

I've updated the tier list a bit, with Sara/Linoan moving down, Salem up, Dagda up a bit, and the archery bundle up a bit.

However, from now on, please stop using the "this unit is not that bad/good" shit to justify moving something up/down. Argue against units directly above or below the unit you're arguing about.

[Salad Utensil]

I give elite to karin actually.

She has all of Manster to level up and she's not really underleveled.

She has trouble killing anything, has the worst durabiltiy besides lara and has bad weapon ranks. She might not even have a lance in chapter 6-7 since capturing is kinda risky and she is likely fatigued for chapter 8, chapter 8X is indoors and we all know how useful she is indoors and chapter nine has her ferrying most of your characters towards the lenster people so they don't get pwned by the WKs. I've never been able to get her past level 14 in any of my playthroughs without the elite manuels. Or maybe i'm just using her incorrectly?

[_____]

Compare her to the units above her. Don't try to make her jump 2 tiers.

Argue against units directly above or below the unit you're arguing about.

8D

She has trouble killing anything, has the worst durabiltiy besides lara and has bad weapon ranks. She might not even have a lance in chapter 6-7 since capturing is kinda risky and she is likely fatigued for chapter 8, chapter 8X is indoors and we all know how useful she is indoors and chapter nine has her ferrying most of your characters towards the lenster people so they don't get pwned by the WKs. I've never been able to get her past level 14 in any of my playthroughs without the elite manuels. Or maybe i'm just using her incorrectly?

I dunno'. Haven't looked it up. All I know is that she's not underleveled. >_<

Edited August 15, 2009 by Ninji

[Dr. Tarrasque]

If Karin has trouble killing (and she does) then you want Wrath on her. Elite's better off on Marty, Nanna and Bow users.

[Salad Utensil]

I've updated the tier list a bit, with Sara/Linoan moving down, Salem up, Dagda up a bit, and the archery bundle up a bit.

However, from now on, please stop using the "this unit is not that bad/good" shit to justify moving something up/down. Argue against units directly above or below the unit you're arguing about.

sorry i didn't mean any disrespect, i'm not meaning to be detrimental towards this thread. I'll stop arguing for selphina since i don't use archers in any Fire emblem besides 4 and 6 anyway since i don't use her

[_____]

If Karin has trouble killing (and she does) then you want Wrath on her. Elite's better off on Marty, Nanna and Bow users.

And I'd argue that giving Robert the Elite Manual >>> giving it to those three.

Marty has the earlygame where he's actually not bad, and he can get a few levels there. Nanna has staves to help her level. Ronan and Tanya are basically Robert, with a forced earlygame, but worse stats and no horse.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Ninji

[Salad Utensil]

If Karin has trouble killing (and she does) then you want Wrath on her. Elite's better off on Marty, Nanna and Bow users.

I was being stupid and gave wrath to Fin...

[Renall]

What's the deal with Ralph anyway? We keep talking about how he needs to go up but nobody seems to bother actually checking him against anybody.

Poor Ralph, too generic.

[grandjackal]

Ok, let's settle it this way then.

Their start

Robert-1

HP: 23, Str: 5, Mag: 0, Skill: 4, Speed: 8, Def: 4, Luck: 6, Con: 7

Selphina-8

HP: 22, Str: 5, Mag: 3, Skill: 7, Speed: 10, Def: 6, Luck: 7, Con: 5

So he wins...HP by 1. His con win doesn't really matter, as he's stuck to Iron bows. Both do the same damage with iron per shot, but there are a couple advantages. Duel allows her to hit 4 times as opposed to 2, and allows her to attempt more chances with crit. Selphina on top of this has a support with Leaf. On top of this...She's actually more durable. But Duel! Yeah, what of it? If you somehow get a mounted archer with canto attacked, you're doing it wrong. It's not even like Robert wants to tank anyway, why you're doing that is rediculous. Currently, she is far outdamaging him with the same weapon. However, she has access to a Silver Bow and a Killer bow to help her do something against stronger enemies, of which Robert would be completely helpless due to his weapon rank.

Fastforward. I'll give Selphina 4 levels and Robert 8.

Selphina-12

HP: 24, Str: 6, Mag: 3.4, Skill: 8.6, Speed: 11.4, Def: 6.6, Luck: 9.2, Build: 5.4

Robert-9

HP: 28.2, Str: 8.6, Mag: 0.8, Skill: 8, Speed: 12.2, Def: 6, Luck: 11.6, Build: 8.6

Statistically they're pretty similar. Basically saying Robert needs twice the levels Selphina does just to compare. 2 Str lead matters indeed, but do ask yourself. With Duel, how much does 2 Str loss mean? Basically she'd be doing her damage x4 as opposed to his x2. This also means she is able to have more of a crit chance with her multiple strikes. On top of this, she still has sole access to the higher end weapons at this point. This doesn't stop the fact he takes a while to catch up to her.

Fastforward to promotion. Despite the fact that Selphina could get there first.

Selphina-20/1

HP: 28, Str: 10, Mag: 5, Skill: 14.8, Speed: 16.2, Def: 9.8, Luck: 13.6, Con: 7.2

Robert: 20/1

HP: 35.4, Str: 15.5, Mag: 2.9, Skill: 16.5, Speed: 19.7, Def: 10.7, Luck: 18.8, Con: 11.8

The durability lead is irrelevent due to them both being archer cavs. You might say the player is not infallable, but being unable to protect someone with that kind of targeting and movement flexibility is not being a mistake, it's just flat out stupid. You would have to be stupid to get either of these people killed. The speed and con issues are also null, for the reason that enemy speed stat sucks. When Dagdar can double all the way to late into lategame enough to warrent him leaping to upper mid? Bows are also generally light weight. I'd have a hard time imagining a time when 12-14 speed is not doubling things. By now, Robert's got access to quite a bit more bows, so now Selphina's weapon selection is gone. Here his offense finally sparks through. She might have a crit support with Leaf making it 24 crit chance per shot (and landing four shots...), he's got a PCR rate of 3. First shot has a 16 chance, second shot has 42. That 5 STR lead is also pretty damn monsterous, especially with the fact he's actually got weapons now. I'd be hard pressed to imagine he's not ORKOing constantly. Basically at this point I would say he wins.

However, she does have her own little passive quips. Example being that she gives support bonuses to her slaves and her wall-faced hubby. They all get a 10 (thereby boosting his crit rate by 10, 30 for the PCR), and a nice juicy 20 for her hubby. Her hubby and Leaf give her 10 each, and with her 4 shots there that is basically 36 chance with 4 attempts. However, it's the odd effect of helping Robert kill things at a greater chance that perplexes me. She helps him do so, and it makes him level faster because of it. You could say her presence makes it easier to train her subordinates, and closer to someone who will indeed become superior in the future. Her presence will still from there benefit even when they're done sucking. Robert gives no supports to anyone, only recieves. Granted he benefits greatly, as with Selphina and Glade around, he gets 10+10 boost. On the PCR, this is 30+30. Basically with them both around, he's pulling 80 chance on the PCR.

That last part I think is what's weird, but considering she's winning-tieing him until promotion, of which she is garunteed to get to first? If she's not better, she's certainly close. Closer than to justify being two tiers below him. At the least she can be in low. No way in hell can Conomore compare. At the very least not the bottom of bottom. Comparing her to the likes of Misha, Shanam and Miranda when she's comparing to a dude in lower mid?

Jeez, to think she was below Ronan.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[_____]

On top of this...She's actually more durable.

Stopped reading after this. You're hopeless.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Ninji

[grandjackal]

On top of this...She's actually more durable.

Stopped reading after this. You're hopeless.

Gee, how willing you are to look at the other side of an argument. 2 Def and 3 Mag vs 1 HP?

This is ignoring the fact that they should never see enemies attack them anyways, unless for some reason you're having them tank for you.

[_____]

Duel. Her AS lead is actually working against her now, as she's being 1-2RKO'd while Robert isn't.

[grandjackal]

Duel. Her AS lead is actually working against her now, as she's being 1-2RKO'd while Robert isn't.

Steel Bow.

This is still ignoring the fact that Arch Knights are the last class to give a shit about durability.

[_____]

Duel. Her AS lead is actually working against her now, as she's being 1-2RKO'd while Robert isn't.

Steel Bow.

Yay, now you won't double. There goes the whole "BUT SHE CAN ATTACK SO MANY TIMES...!"

This is still ignoring the fact that Arch Knights are the last class to give a shit about durability.

No, you're the one ignoring the fact that all units durability must be taken into account and just saying "So, look, her offense is decent, ignore her defensive failure, please".

[grandjackal]

Yay, now you won't double. There goes the whole "BUT SHE CAN ATTACK SO MANY TIMES...!"

This is for those theoretical melee units you for SOME reason have attacking her to offset Duel.

No, you're the one ignoring the fact that all units durability must be taken into account and just saying "So, look, her offense is decent, ignore her defensive failure, please".

Not my fault you're using them the absolutely wrong way. You would literally have to try to get them attacked.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[_____]

To put what you're saying into perspective...

"Yeah, Rhys is doubled and ORKO'd by a lot of things, but that doesn't matter or anything! He's a healer, you're retarded for letting him get hit! We only need to care about offense!"

What the hell? That's not how these things go.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Ninji

[grandjackal]

To put what you're saying into perspective...

"Yeah, Rhys is doubled and ORKO'd by a lot of things, but that doesn't matter or anything! He's a healer, you're retarded for letting him get hit! We only need to care about offense!"

What the hell? That's not how these things go.

Rhys doesn't have 8 move and fucking canto. It's used all the time for the paladins in FE9, how the fuck you think Astrid got to High? Certainly wasn't her starting combat performance.

[_____]

And then in FE10, Astrid's durability is brought up all the time. It's a double standard,

The two of us should stop arguing about this until someone else chimes in to tell us their opinion on which version we should use for this list.

[grandjackal]

And then in FE10, Astrid's durability is brought up all the time. It's a double standard,

The two of us should stop arguing about this until someone else chimes in to tell us their opinion on which version we should use for this list.

Agreed, but to clarify?

FE10 Astrid...Durability is like...the 5th thing that's wrong with her.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf