FE5 Tier List

[grandjackal]

It's more her being in lower mid interupts him getting the brave bow, as they'd be in the same tier.

Xavier has plenty going for hm from there though, but master weapons? Do tell where we're getting master weapons.

I'm just trying to argue her over her own group, which isn't hard.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Salad Utensil]

It's more her being in lower mid interupts him getting the brave bow, as they'd be in the same tier.

Xavier has plenty going for hm from there though, but master weapons? Do tell where we're getting master weapons.

He starts with the master axe

BTW about mareeta, is it possible to capture her in chapter 5 and take her darkness sword so she has 2 Prf weapons 8D when she rejoins

Edited August 13, 2009 by Brighton

[Renall]

Mareeta disappears as soon as the door is opened, so no.

Robert cannot "share" the Killer or Brave Bows with Selfina because he starts with an E. Selfina starts with a B. It's like comparing Eda and Dean's sword rank. One is awesome, and one doesn't even exist. Robert is not breaking 7 Mt with his weapons until he ranks up once, which is kind of sad because even Tanya can do better than that.

Oh, did I mention the sniper in ch5 who has a 15 Mt Silver Bow and is relatively easy to capture or rob? I didn't? Well guess what rank the Silver Bow is! So Selfina has, I am not fucking kidding, 3 awesome weapons that she alone has any hope of ever using until Xavier joins up. I mean sure you can just sell them or save them, but that seems almost criminal with a Killer and a Hero.

And I would agree with Xavier > Dalshien. There's a lot of good to Xavier and he certainly helps from 19-22 at the very least. He can sit on the bridge in 22 getting rushed by horsemen and not even give a shit. Give him the King Sword and he's helping everyone else too. Dalshien is just fucked by outdoor maps and an overabundance of Hammers in chapters like 14 (seriously WTF is with every armor having a Hammer in that one). Plus when he promotes his new weapons all start at E. Ouch.

[Salad Utensil]

Mareeta disappears as soon as the door is opened, so no.

Robert cannot "share" the Killer or Brave Bows with Selfina because he starts with an E. Selfina starts with a B. It's like comparing Eda and Dean's sword rank. One is awesome, and one doesn't even exist. Robert is not breaking 7 Mt with his weapons until he ranks up once, which is kind of sad because even Tanya can do better than that.

I was saying Xavier and Selphina could share, but usually in my playthroughs i only use Xavier. I thought Eyval could capture her and take her weapon?

[Renall]

Eyvel can be ordered to attack Mareeta, but she will not actually attack, nor will she counter if Mareeta attacks. It's a mother's love.

[Salad Utensil]

Eyvel can be ordered to attack Mareeta, but she will not actually attack, nor will she counter if Mareeta attacks. It's a mother's love.

Oh darn...Mareeta swords 60 uses run out too soon :.(

edit: there are also 2 more easy to capture killer bows on chapter 11

Edited August 13, 2009 by Brighton

[Renall]

I only mention the resources for the Manster chapters because I was recently trying to take stock of everything you can have available (for instance, you get two Rapiers, not one as my memory had suggested), and because it's in these chapters that you really need them. Having Killers later is a good find but not really as important when you can pick your team and have Fin and Othin and Halvan back and etc. You lack a bit of luxury in Manster, and you have limited inventory space since you have to hold a ton of Vulneraries and various other loot (Physic staves for Safy's later use, a couple tomes for Asvel, whatever else you feel like stealing). Something like a Killer makes Fergus and Machua a lot stronger, and I wasn't sure if that might influence their tiering. The bow thing and Selfina though... still not sure if her shit stats are going to make her terribly useful.

[Don Draper]

I think I mentioned Xavier vs. Dalshien earlier in the topic, although nothing really came from it. I definitely agree though

[grandjackal]

I only mention the resources for the Manster chapters because I was recently trying to take stock of everything you can have available (for instance, you get two Rapiers, not one as my memory had suggested), and because it's in these chapters that you really need them. Having Killers later is a good find but not really as important when you can pick your team and have Fin and Othin and Halvan back and etc. You lack a bit of luxury in Manster, and you have limited inventory space since you have to hold a ton of Vulneraries and various other loot (Physic staves for Safy's later use, a couple tomes for Asvel, whatever else you feel like stealing). Something like a Killer makes Fergus and Machua a lot stronger, and I wasn't sure if that might influence their tiering. The bow thing and Selfina though... still not sure if her shit stats are going to make her terribly useful.

The only "shit stats" she has to worry about is Speed, Strength and Build due to Canto. Her speed in itself is perfectly fine. Base is pretty much high enough to get her by. Her build isn't great, but the only person that's ever gonna hope to beat her is Robert, who is currently 2 speed behind her anyways. Even considering, she has Duel. If she's faster, she's landing at least 4 shots, brave bow not included. With Brave Bow, that's 8 straight attacks, and with bows it's most likely not getting countered. So already, she's leagues ahead of Robert. Then throw in weapon rank, where she's basically getting away with using Brave, Killer and Silver whenever the hell she feels like it. Basically, Robert needs to catch up. As well as he DOES catch up to the point he doesn't need fancy weapons, Selphina's still got access to more and Selphina still has Duel. Major difference is basically she might not hit as hard as Robert will eventually, but she will hit plenty more often.

If that doesn't grab you, then just give her a couple levels then prepromote her. She'll get a nice meaty boost from it to go from ok to generally awesome. Other benefits include giving supports (Robert should thank her for the 30 PCR crit she gives him, too bad Robert's too much of a dick to support anyone, and she gives them to the rest of her squad as well), a nice 20 crit boost to Glade who would like any excuse to not be dull, receives a support from the ever present Leaf...

In fact, I DO wonder if there is a better cantidate for Moonlight Strike...

[Renall]

Selfina for B-Route Goddess? Well, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Moving her out of Bottom at least seems possible though.

[_____]

Duel may help her offense out, but it also cripples her defense. Quite a few enemies, especially weakened ones, will be able to either kill her or cause serious damage. Why would she need Duel to help her offensively when she has the Brave Bow and her only competition for it is Robert, who won't get it until he levels up his weapon rank, and Xavier who comes much later?

On another note, I still don't know why Miranda is above Shanam and Selphina. Bargain is pretty damn useful with the inflated prices in this game. I don't agree with Mekkah in thinking that Shanam shouldn't benefit from having Bargain.

[grandjackal]

Duel may help her offense out, but it also cripples her defense. Quite a few enemies, especially weakened ones, will be able to either kill her or cause serious damage. Why would she need Duel to help her offensively when she has the Brave Bow and her only competition for it is Robert, who won't get it until he levels up his weapon rank, and Xavier who comes much later?

If you can't defend a mounted archer with canto, you're doing it wrong. It only matters on like..Ballistae. As for why we need Duel when we got the brave bow, I say why not? Brave Bow won't last forever, and if we don't need it to kill something then we don't need to use it. Could be used as anti-mage (basically fire the first two shots, you killed without a counter) and that sort of deal, but otherwise if you aren't getting countered you can use something else. Wouldn't you know it, thanks to her weapon rank, she has every option under teh sun right from the get-go.

Hell, maybe she won't even use it much in that case. Which case, Duel helped her keep Brave usage to minimum, where someone like Robert and Xavier would use it better from there on out due to better strength. Theoretical of course, strength isn't exactly shiny. Duel however does help her offense, the same way it does for Dagdar except even better.

On another note, I still don't know why Miranda is above Shanam and Selphina. Bargain is pretty damn useful with the inflated prices in this game. I don't agree with Mekkah in thinking that Shanam shouldn't benefit from having Bargain.

Me either. FE6 tier, we all agreed to tier Merlinus based on the aspect that if anyone is gonna do nothing else but shop (thereby leaving combat units to actual combat), it'll be him. On top of that, what he bought is able to be pulled out of the caravan right there. He's not high, but Shanam ain't looking to be god tier here. Shanam basically is Merlinus with Bargain, that you can't pull merchandise out his ass, but can defend himself...Sorta...Not really.

This implies we even bother with money. We could though, I mean the life ring in chapter 1 isn't really helping anybody (I'd rather a shield ring). There's plenty of useless garbage we can just sell off at times. Like those fragile weak-ass small weapons (short spear, short bow, bullshit like that). Items are pretty damn expensive in this game, so cutting the price in half is insta-boner to me.

[Renall]

Plenty of people would want that Life Ring. Safy, Olwen, Lifis or Lara. Bows, on the other hand... a Short Lance goes for like 200g. Short Bow is 400g. And an Iron Bow goes for 1100g, which is insane. The Silver Bow only nets you 2000g, so it seems pointless to sell ti when you could pawn Irons/Longs/Shorts for considerably more money. This is I guess a point to Selfina, as unlike the other archers she doesn't have to use up low-rank bows to get her skill up and that means you can just sell them all. That's really more of an intangible though and starts going into Heather/Shanam/Merlinus levels of questionable economic utility.

But it is kind of nice.

[grandjackal]

Why the fuck would Saphy need the life ring for? She has no business being attacked, ever.

Olwen, kind of a long ways to hold onto that damn thing, don't ya think?

Lifis...Kind of a waste, don't ya think? I mean, he's basically a thief when you need one, then Parn shows up to basically be better than him in every way imaginable.

Lara, same deal with Saphy.

I'd honestly have the gold. Make Olwen a tidbit more durable though still rather meh at the start, or 3 Wind tomes? Hmmm...

[Renall]

Why the fuck would Saphy need the life ring for? She has no business being attacked, ever.

Fatigue.

Olwen, kind of a long ways to hold onto that damn thing, don't ya think?

It is one of her big weaknesses.

Lifis...Kind of a waste, don't ya think? I mean, he's basically a thief when you need one, then Parn shows up to basically be better than him in every way imaginable.

Lifis gets attacked all the fucking time in Manster. He can survive it, but the extra HP would be good insurance.

Lara, same deal with Saphy.

Still wouldn't hurt to have a dancer that's slightly less than instantly combustible.

I'd honestly have the gold. Make Olwen a tidbit more durable though still rather meh at the start, or 3 Wind tomes? Hmmm...

Selective capturing of high-value stuff should see you through on that front. Extra money is always handy, but I'd be wary of selling a stat booster. Especially the equivalent of a Seraph Robe.

[grandjackal]

Why the fuck would Saphy need the life ring for? She has no business being attacked, ever.

Fatigue.

Olwen, kind of a long ways to hold onto that damn thing, don't ya think?

It is one of her big weaknesses.

Lifis...Kind of a waste, don't ya think? I mean, he's basically a thief when you need one, then Parn shows up to basically be better than him in every way imaginable.

Lifis gets attacked all the fucking time in Manster. He can survive it, but the extra HP would be good insurance.

Lara, same deal with Saphy.

Still wouldn't hurt to have a dancer that's slightly less than instantly combustible.

I'd honestly have the gold. Make Olwen a tidbit more durable though still rather meh at the start, or 3 Wind tomes? Hmmm...

Selective capturing of high-value stuff should see you through on that front. Extra money is always handy, but I'd be wary of selling a stat booster. Especially the equivalent of a Seraph Robe.

1. Good point

2. Not exactly a fan of giving people stat boosters to not suck.

3. Why you're having Lifis attack things when he has absolutely no business in battle with every single one of his stats being bad is beyond me.

4. Why you're letting a dancer get attacked is beyond me.

5. Capturing comes with cost. Not everyone can capture easy, and more importantly it bogs down how you go through a chapter. Weighing people down, having to take off trade and dispose, enemy generally has more con than most of your damn cast, and some enemy stuff is just generally bad, or the same as other things with less durability, or just suck. Great for the enemy, considering they don't have to worry about using weapons long term, but for the most part their equipment sucks. I'd rather buy my stuff. Hell, some things you can only get shopping, like wind tomes and the such (seriously, Salem will suck your dick for wind tomes).

[_____]

Players are not infallable. We have to take character durability into account, even if they won't be fighting often. The Life Ring does help Lara and Lifis out, even if they aren't the greatest at combat.

The first part also applies to the Duel thing you said didn't matter for Selphina.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Ninji

[grandjackal]

Players are not infallable. We have to take character durability into account, even if they won't be fighting often. The Life Ring does help Lara and Lifis out, even if they aren't the greatest at combat.

The first part also applies to the Duel thing you said didn't matter for Selphina.

Having plenty of move with canto with range to avoid counters is a bit more leeway-giving than using a stat booster to make up for actual statistical shortcomings.

[Renall]

Even so, since HP = Fatigue for all characters, a Life booster is never truly wasted unless the character already has 40+ HP or something.

[grandjackal]

Either way, I don't think this matters for Selphina.

So, no one disagrees with Selphina rising?

[Renall]

Either way, I don't think this matters for Selphina.

So, no one disagrees with Selphina rising?

I don't, but I'm not sure where. Robert over Kein/Alva, Selfina over Robert?

[grandjackal]

Either way, I don't think this matters for Selphina.

So, no one disagrees with Selphina rising?

I don't, but I'm not sure where. Robert over Kein/Alva, Selfina over Robert?

Something like that, though Selfina and Robert are still debatable. I think Selphina starting off with any weapon she can pick from and Duel would win her points over Robert's worse start and bottom of the barrel weapon rank. However with his 3 PCR and crazy growth, he eventually won't even need fancy weapons, though Selphina can still sort of make up for it.

To be honest, it's a close call.

[Salad Utensil]

I don't know the exact placements/details, but i feel like Trewd through Fred need to be rearranged in some order or at least some of the characters need to move up a tier. Robert (debatable), kein, and alva are basically useless their entire existence are Way to close to characters that CAN be actually useful. Fred early on is pretty decent with ok bases and good growths, glade is somewhat solid with a leadership star and slightly better bases. Then Xavier, Amalda, and Delmudd all have thier advantages and for the most part have good positive utility for the time they are around. IE Amalda's high magic and C staves and good sword rank, Xavier's good weapon levels, skills, and tankability, and delmudd's charisma and offense power due to the beo sword.

I already explained why dalshien fails after chapter 5 and is best to be abandoned in an escape chapter to increase "efficiency".

Fred is not only>kein but Fred>>>>>>>kein. I kinda want to move Xavier through Amalda to bottom of upper mid and Glade and Fred to top of lower mid, but I fear that upper mid becomes top heavy.

Also Fred>Glade>Trewd. Just look at the bases and weapon levels. Glade beats Fred in 1 point in every key stat however is stuck to lances w/o a proficient weapon and worse growths. Fred wins slight availibility in chapters where mounted units are useful (chapter 13, chapter 12). Trewd is only availible after 12X and chapter 13 is an escape chapter and Glade also joins then. Glade and Fred win durability and offense and Trewd wins...luck growth and nihil. Trewd also needs a knights proof to fail less with his awesome 1PCC which is weird for a swordfighter.

I feel like the it should be like:

Bottom of upper mid:

Machua

Xavier

Amalda

Delmudd

Lowermid

Fred

Glade

Dalshien (cause he is kind of useful in chapter4-5)

Trewd

Lenster people in some order

According to Wolf:

Selphina

Robert

Pseudo abel/kain

Thought?

Edit: Cyas is still in low? why?

Edited August 14, 2009 by Brighton

[_____]

Selphina > Robert wtf

Stop hyping her up. Maybe above Conomore, but above Robert? Not a chance. I'm sure we have enemy stats, but I can't find them. Once I do, it should be very easy to do Robert >>> Selphina.

[grandjackal]

Selphina > Robert wtf

Stop hyping her up. Maybe above Conomore, but above Robert? Not a chance. I'm sure we have enemy stats, but I can't find them. Once I do, it should be very easy to do Robert >>> Selphina.

Differences between base Selphina and Robert is she's faster and has access to every bow she can dream of, something Robert will be lucky to ever get. He gets stronger, but she has Duel. He's got 3 PCR, but she has more skill and supports, along with access to Killer Bows far before Robert does. She also has more skill while keeping up with luck, so she will hti mroe often (small point I know). One thing she can do damn well better than he is fighting people that can counter them both-mages. This is due to her higher magic stat. As for durability, he has 1 more HP while she has 2 def and 3 magic. His growths aren't incredibly superior in those departments, so he takes a while to catch up to Def, and can't match her magic, though he will have a bit more HP. Speed is a rather null issue, as she'll have plenty, and has a 2 point lead on him anyways.

I don't need to compare them to enemies, because Selphina for all instances starts off superior to him already. In fact, 2 levels and I can promote Selphina to have something vastly superior to Robert for a good while. In this comparison, he starts in the negative and both have the same rolls.