Character bios

[Use the Falchion]

20 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

Not at all, based on what you are saying Linhardt and Marianne will have that same move set but will only be different on command spells. 

Considering each house has more or less the same general weapon users - each house has a sword and/or bow user*, an offensive magic user, and a healing magic user, and a cavalier - and I'm pretty sure the tweets confirmed that characters would have multiple preferences in terms of class, I don't think it's impossible for Marianne, Mercedes, and Linhardt to all have similar move sets with different command spells and secondary classes. 

So, for Mercedes, her "Priest" build may be Light/Healing while Marianne's is Light/Lightning, and healing is a separate thing for her. Linhardt could be Light/Healing as well, but the intricacies differ from Mercedes' due to the Crest difference, if any of that makes sense. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is Base Class Kit (Priest/Light Magic) + Personal Affinity (Element) + Personal Skill & Preferences = Unique gameplay and feel. 

But this is all speculation on my part. I honestly don't know what the gameplay will be like outside of what they shared and guessing is far from my preferred area of speculation. 

 

*Petra is both sword and bow for BE, and Ignatz & Claude are the same for GD while Leonie fills the pure bow archetype. Ashe and Felix split that archetype, but in return, the GD don't have any "natural" Fist/Axe users in their house, unlike Caspar for BE and Raphael for GD. 

[Etrurian emperor]

26 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I mean, yeah. But maybe no. Also, don't you think that a mounted tome might be more Marianne's style?

I think Lorenz might end up as the pony riding mage. House Glouceter is a mage house which apparently a squad of mage knight as their gimmick. That and Lorenz went to magic school with Annette and Mercedes. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

Just now, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Lorenz might end up as the pony riding mage. House Glouceter is a mage house which apparently a squad of mage knight as their gimmick. That and Lorenz went to magic school with Annette and Mercedes. 

There's no rule stating that Dark Knight and Holy Knight can't be distinct movesets. I mean, if priest and mage can be distinct, so can they.

[ciphertul]

56 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Just saying that literally no character in the entire game has their "canon" class in the master tier. If Marianne can't be a canon holy knight, no one can be a canon Bow Knight, Great Knight, Wyvern Lord, Falcon Knight, Dark Knight, War Master, Gremory, or Mortal Savant either.

Yea, because Ingrid isn’t a canon Falco Knight, or Lysithea isn’t a canon Gremory. Nope no one is a master class. Make up your mind, why does Mercedes “canon” hold so much more weight then others? 

[Fabulously Olivier]

9 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

Yea, because Ingrid isn’t a canon Falco Knight, or Lysithea isn’t a canon Gremory. Nope no one is a master class. Make up your mind, why does Mercedes “canon” hold so much more weight then others? 

Does Ingrid have her canon outfit in Falcon Knight? No. Does Lysithea have her canon outfit in Gremory? No. Because no one does in master tier classes. And for mounted master tier classes, no one even can have their canon outfit if you enable it.

 

The reality is that canon classes were assigned to be those units appear in when you first see them on War Phase reunion, nothing more. We're left to naturally extrapolate which classes are canon extensions of those, because, again, no one is a canon Dark Knight, even though Lorenz obviously is. No one is a canon Bow Knight, even though Leonie obviously is. No one is a canon Falcon Knight, even though Ingrid obviously is.

 

54 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

Considering each house has more or less the same general weapon users - each house has a sword and/or bow user*, an offensive magic user, and a healing magic user, and a cavalier - and I'm pretty sure the tweets confirmed that characters would have multiple preferences in terms of class, I don't think it's impossible for Marianne, Mercedes, and Linhardt to all have similar move sets with different command spells and secondary classes. 

So, for Mercedes, her "Priest" build may be Light/Healing while Marianne's is Light/Lightning, and healing is a separate thing for her. Linhardt could be Light/Healing as well, but the intricacies differ from Mercedes' due to the Crest difference, if any of that makes sense. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is Base Class Kit (Priest/Light Magic) + Personal Affinity (Element) + Personal Skill & Preferences = Unique gameplay and feel. 

But this is all speculation on my part. I honestly don't know what the gameplay will be like outside of what they shared and guessing is far from my preferred area of speculation. 

 

*Petra is both sword and bow for BE, and Ignatz & Claude are the same for GD while Leonie fills the pure bow archetype. Ashe and Felix split that archetype, but in return, the GD don't have any "natural" Fist/Axe users in their house, unlike Caspar for BE and Raphael for GD. 

What's interesting is that each house not only has similar distribution but similar archetypes.

 

Every house has a rival (Ferdinand, Felix, Lorenz).

 

Every house has a lady knight (Petra, Ingrid, Leonie). 

 

Every house has a good boy (Linhardt, Ashe, Ignatz.)

 

Every house has a "himbo" (Caspar, Sylvain, Raphael).

 

Every house has a smol girl (Bernadetta, Annette, Lysithea).

 

Every house has a mother figure/support (Dorothea, Mercedes, Marianne).

[ciphertul]

6 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Does Ingrid have her canon outfit in Falcon Knight? No. Does Lysithea have her canon outfit in Gremory? No. Because no one does in master tier classes. And for mounted master tier classes, no one even can have their canon outfit if you enable it.

 

The reality is that canon classes were assigned to be those units appear in when you first see them on War Phase reunion, nothing more. We're left to naturally extrapolate which classes are canon extensions of those, because, again, no one is a canon Dark Knight, even though Lorenz obviously is. No one is a canon Bow Knight, even though Leonie obviously is. No one is a canon Falcon Knight, even though Ingrid obviously is.

So, even if someone appears as the class as an enemy it isn’t canon? Bullshit, stop moving the goalpost.

[Fabulously Olivier]

2 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

So, even if someone appears as the class as an enemy it isn’t canon? Bullshit, stop moving the goalpost.

I will not discuss this matter much further since you're clearly adamant on it. Are enemy classes canon? Sure. Are they the only canon? No. Assassin is not Petra's only canon class - she also maintains her outfit as a wyvern rider. Wyvern Rider is not Cyril's only canon class - he has a quiver for crying out loud, and one can reasonably say that he is meant to be reflective of the two staple classes of his homeland - Wyvern Lord and Bow Knight.

[ciphertul]

6 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I will not discuss this matter much further since you're clearly adamant on it. Are enemy classes canon? Sure. Are they the only canon? No. Assassin is not Petra's only canon class - she also maintains her outfit as a wyvern rider. Wyvern Rider is not Cyril's only canon class - he has a quiver for crying out loud, and one can reasonably say that he is meant to be reflective of the two staple classes of his homeland - Wyvern Lord and Bow Knight.

A quiver huh? Did you know Leonie has one and her outfit doesn’t show for Sniper?

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

A quiver huh? Did you know Leonie has one and her outfit doesn’t show for Sniper?

Because she's meant to also be a Bow Knight. Or do you think she's the canon (or at least quest-related) wielder of The Inexhaustible for no reason even though two people matching its crest are RIGHT THERE? Nope, no reason at all.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[ciphertul]

1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Because she's meant to also be a Bow Knight. Or do you think she's the canon wielder of The Inexhaustible for no reason? Nope, no reason at all.

She only is because they figured Bernie didn’t need anything. Not like Bernie is also a canon Sniper and bow knight who also has the damn crest to match the thing. But no, she get nothing at all from her “paralogue”. It the same reason why Claude get the “Sword of Bergalta” or whatever it’s called. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, ciphertul said:

She only is because they figured Bernie didn’t need anything. Not like Bernie is also a canon Sniper and bow knight who also has the damn crest to match the thing. But no, she get nothing at all from her “paralogue”. It the same reason why Claude get the “Sword of Bergalta” or whatever it’s called. 

Right. But here's the thing. You can't pick and choose when to be open about when canon is flexible and when it isn't. I should say that she is one of the canon wielders of The Inexhaustible and the game emphasizes that. In the same way, canon classes are more flexible than you think they are. It's why some of us get really excited when the twitter bios say "one of this unit's preferred classes."

[ciphertul]

2 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Right. But here's the thing. You can't pick and choose when to be open about when canon is flexible and when it isn't. I should say that she is one of the canon wielders of The Inexhaustible and the game emphasizes that. In the same way, canon classes are more flexible than you think they are. It's why some of us get really excited when the twitter bios say "one of this unit's preferred classes."

Neither can you, as you stated Mercedes is canon priest do to outfit, which Marianne is too. Weapon “canon” mean nothing, nothing is PRF in that game. That is why I’m saying you need to pick. Is the outfit canon, is the enemy class canon, is their natural class line canon? You’re  jumping back and forth. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

2 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

Neither can you, as you stated Mercedes is canon priest do to outfit, which Marianne is too. Weapon “canon” mean nothing, nothing is PRF in that game. That is why I’m saying you need to pick. Is the outfit canon, is the enemy class canon, is their natural class line canon? You’re  jumping back and forth. 

The answer to that question is, I'm hoping, all of the above. Ideally, Mercedes would be canon to both priest and archer. And Marianne would be canon to both priest and holy knight. Generally speaking though, I would consider outfit canon to be the most important.

(Also, in every case I'm aware of outfit and natural class line align.)

[ciphertul]

2 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

The answer to that question is, I'm hoping, all of the above. Ideally, Mercedes would be canon to both priest and archer. And Marianne would be canon to both priest and holy knight. Generally speaking though, I would consider outfit canon to be the most important.

(Also, in every case I'm aware of outfit and natural class line align.)

It’s mostly Ingrid that throws the wrench there. They meant to have Peg be Advance but didn’t. So her outfits is on Paladin which isn’t a nat line for Falcoknight.

[Etrurian emperor]

51 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

What's interesting is that each house not only has similar distribution but similar archetypes.

 

Every house has a rival (Ferdinand, Felix, Lorenz).

 

Every house has a lady knight (Petra, Ingrid, Leonie). 

 

Every house has a good boy (Linhardt, Ashe, Ignatz.)

 

Every house has a "himbo" (Caspar, Sylvain, Raphael).

 

Every house has a smol girl (Bernadetta, Annette, Lysithea).

 

Every house has a mother figure/support (Dorothea, Mercedes, Marianne).

Yeah that pretty quickly got apparent. The personalities of those within the houses is different but the lineup is always kinda the same. They all have a group of rivals, smoll boys and girls, etcetera.

I'd probably but Caspar over Linhardt with the good boys. Not only is he short just like the other two but despite being a bit brash Caspar's mostly nice, while Linhardt can often be kind of a jerk. I'm also not sure I'd put Marianne as motherly since she's so timid she's typically the junior towards whoever she's speaking to. 

That said there's also some secondary areas of overlap. Each house has at least one member who's foreign (Claude, Petra and Dedue), they all have one member who loves to fight (Caspar, Felix, Rapheal), or houses that guard the border(Hilda, Sylvain, Caspar) and other such differences. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Etrurian emperor

[Fabulously Olivier]

2 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Yeah that pretty quickly got apparent. The personalities of those within the houses is different but the lineup is always kinda the same. They all have a group of rivals, smoll boys and girls, etcetera.

I'd probably but Caspar over Linhardt with the good boys. Not only is he short just like the other two but despite being a bit brash Caspar's mostly nice, while Linhardt can often be kind of a jerk. I'm also not sure I'd put Marianne as motherly since she's so timid she's typically the junior towards whoever she's speaking to. 

Linhardt can be a jerk, but he's generally good at picking his targets. He tends to do a good job of supporting those whose unfortunate circumstances need support (Bernadetta, Lysithea) and tearing into those whose egos really need cutting down a peg (Ferdinand). It's part of why I like him, and I very much do consider him to be a good boy.

[SMinairo]

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

Considering each house has more or less the same general weapon users - each house has a sword and/or bow user*, an offensive magic user, and a healing magic user, and a cavalier - and I'm pretty sure the tweets confirmed that characters would have multiple preferences in terms of class, I don't think it's impossible for Marianne, Mercedes, and Linhardt to all have similar move sets with different command spells and secondary classes. 

So, for Mercedes, her "Priest" build may be Light/Healing while Marianne's is Light/Lightning, and healing is a separate thing for her. Linhardt could be Light/Healing as well, but the intricacies differ from Mercedes' due to the Crest difference, if any of that makes sense. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is Base Class Kit (Priest/Light Magic) + Personal Affinity (Element) + Personal Skill & Preferences = Unique gameplay and feel. 

But this is all speculation on my part. I honestly don't know what the gameplay will be like outside of what they shared and guessing is far from my preferred area of speculation. 

 

*Petra is both sword and bow for BE, and Ignatz & Claude are the same for GD while Leonie fills the pure bow archetype. Ashe and Felix split that archetype, but in return, the GD don't have any "natural" Fist/Axe users in their house, unlike Caspar for BE and Raphael for GD. 

Having preferences for a class probably means that it's going to be like Samurai Warriors 5, where every weapon is a moveset but characters with a preference have one or two unique moves. For example, aside from the usual combinations of Y and X, Bernadetta could have a unique YXX attack that ashe would not, while he could have YYXX. Having more than one preference would mean that they have those unique attacks in more than one class.

Also, Leonie is not a pure bow archetype, she is first and foremost a paladin, one who clearly becomes a bow knight, but a paladin nonetheless.

42 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I will not discuss this matter much further since you're clearly adamant on it. Are enemy classes canon? Sure. Are they the only canon? No. Assassin is not Petra's only canon class - she also maintains her outfit as a wyvern rider. Wyvern Rider is not Cyril's only canon class - he has a quiver for crying out loud, and one can reasonably say that he is meant to be reflective of the two staple classes of his homeland - Wyvern Lord and Bow Knight.

I think the reason for him having a bow is that his teacher is Shamir (or because he was going to be a Bow Knight and they changed it after the portrait was done) rather than because the class is a staple of almyra, he doesn't have that much love for his country.

Speaking of enemy classes, I love how Sylvain in CF is a great knight even though he is obviously meant to be a dark knight, all because without the professor he couldn't use his talent for reason.

14 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

The answer to that question is, I'm hoping, all of the above. Ideally, Mercedes would be canon to both priest and archer. And Marianne would be canon to both priest and holy knight. Generally speaking though, I would consider outfit canon to be the most important.

(Also, in every case I'm aware of outfit and natural class line align.)

So you think that every weapon they have proficiency in should make a class related to it "canon"?

Edited May 16, 2022 by Sbuscoz

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

Having preferences for a class probably means that it's going to be like Samurai Warriors 5, where every weapon is a moveset but characters with a preference have one or two unique moves. For example, aside from the usual combinations of Y and X, Bernadetta could have a unique YXX attack that ashe would not, while he could have YYXX. Having more than one preference would mean that they have those unique attacks in more than one class.

Also, Leonie is not a pure bow archetype, she is first and foremost a paladin, one who clearly becomes a bow knight, but a paladin nonetheless.

I think the reason for him having a bow is that his teacher is Shamir (or because he was going to be a Bow Knight and they changed it after the portrait was done) rather than because the class is a staple of almyra, he doesn't have that much love for his country.

Speaking of enemy classes, I love how Sylvain in CF is a great knight even though he is obviously meant to be a dark knight, all because without the professor he couldn't use his talent for reason.

So you think that every weapon they have proficiency in should make a class related to it "canon"?

Not quite so far as that. Ultimately, Nintendo and Koei are the arbiters of what is and isn't canon. But let's use Cyril as an example since his weapon/class boons are so versatile.

 

If every boon was a canon class with unique mechanics, this game would have to give Cyril unique mechanics in not just Wyvern Rider and Bow Knight, but also Warrior, Sniper, and Paladin. Someone like Ferdinand would be even more ridiculous, as his boons would lean into not just Paladin and Great Knight, but also Swordmaster, Warrior, Hero, and Fortress Knight. That's a lot of work, and I think we'd all be reasonably skeptical of Koei going THAT far.

[ciphertul]

1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Not quite so far as that. Ultimately, Nintendo and Koei are the arbiters of what is and isn't canon. But let's use Cyril as an example since his weapon/class boons are so versatile.

 

If every boon was a canon class with unique mechanics, this game would have to give Cyril unique mechanics in not just Wyvern Rider and Bow Knight, but also Warrior, Sniper, and Paladin. Someone like Ferdinand would be even more ridiculous, as his boons would lean into not just Paladin and Great Knight, but also Swordmaster, Warrior, Hero, and Fortress Knight. That's a lot of work, and I think we'd all be reasonably skeptical of Koei going THAT far.

I meant to say this earlier but forgot, I could see this happening as a worst case scenario. They didn’t say how many preferred classes. So may Ashe’s preferred classes are Archer and Sniper. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

8 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

I meant to say this earlier but forgot, I could see this happening as a worst case scenario. They didn’t say how many preferred classes. So may Ashe’s preferred classes are Archer and Sniper. 

It's certainly a possibility. But why even offer class changing if there is only one preferred class line?

[ciphertul]

1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

It's certainly a possibility. But why even offer class changing if there is only one preferred class line?

That is how you get your skills remember? How else would you build your skills if you can only be one class line.

Edited May 16, 2022 by ciphertul

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

That is how you get your skills remember? How else would you build your skills if you can only be one class line.

The same way FEW1 did it? That's also less work for the player than arbitrarily leveling classes characters have no proficiency in.

[ciphertul]

Just now, Fabulously Olivier said:

The same way FEW1 did it? That's also less work for the player than arbitrarily leveling classes characters have no proficiency in.

Umm... I would rather play the character instead of just grinding mat drops (for most anyways) plus we have the training ground remember?

[SMinairo]

8 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

It's certainly a possibility. But why even offer class changing if there is only one preferred class line?

Same reason as Samurai Warriors 5 or even Three Houses, you like a character but not their moveset? You can use them with whatever weapon you like.

It's also the perfect excuse to have "generic" movesets.

[Fabulously Olivier]

55 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

Same reason as Samurai Warriors 5 or even Three Houses, you like a character but not their moveset? You can use them with whatever weapon you like.

It's also the perfect excuse to have "generic" movesets.

I get that but moreso in the opposite direction. I've never had a character in these games that I love despite their moveset, but I can think of plenty of movesets I'll never play because I hate the character (Xu Zhu, the Qiaos, Yoshimoto, Tingle). In FEW, that would have been Elise and Rowan, if Leo and Lianna weren't options for me. So I do see the value of clones.

 

My issue is actually that the preferred moveset system as a whole actually disincentivizes class changing by making the other movesets less viable on that character. Understandable, but unfortunate if there are multiple preferred class lines. Pretty damn disappointing if there is only one.