Randoman Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) So how many "Orson Type" characters are there in Fire Emblem? When I say "Orson Type" characters, I'm talking about characters that are playable at first, but become unplayable and unrecruitable after certain points in the story (we're not counting Creature Campaign/Trial Maps for this thread's purposes, since they're not part of the main story). So for some examples of what counts and what doesn't, Orson from Sacred Stones counts, since he's playable in Chapter 5x, but he stops being playable after that. Marty from Thracia 776 doesn't count, since although you lose him at a certain point, he becomes a recruitable enemy later on. Kaze from Birthright... he kind of falls into a grey area, but I personally wouldn't count him since you can save him without making gameplay choices as drastic as choosing a different branching story path. Speaking of which, if you're wondering if Fates/Three Houses branching path situations count for this thread's purposes, I guess you can list characters like that, but state that they're branching path characters. I was mostly wanting to compile a list of characters similar to Orson that are temporarily playable, but leave your team permanently no matter what you do and no matter what story path you take. The Fire Emblem Wikis don't have a list of characters like that, and I was really curious as to how big the list of temporarily playable characters in the Fire Emblem series are. [Edit] We are also not counting Genealogy of the Holy War Generation 1 characters that aren't playable after Chapter 5, due to to the nature of the game and it being split into 2 very distinct parts with greatly different casts. Edited April 18, 2022 by Randoman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyBeans Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 I guess Eyvel would be close, but not hit the criteria, even though it's the very end of the game. In Revelation you could probably count Scarlet for that. Can't really think of anyone else, so would that be it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 Genealogy has the record for this, heh. If we don't count Berhara BBQ for this, then just Dierdre, Quan, and Ethlyn. Also Finn if we also don't count him returning for Gen 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) I think the best way to class it would be, "this character is fully playable, but you don't get to view their ending (provided the game has ending blurb cards)" -The Black Knight is a pretty straight case of this in Radiant Dawn. -Edelgard, Hubert and Flayn all pull this in Three Houses, depending on your route. -If I remember Aelfric is also something like this in Cindered Shadows, being fully playable in one chapter. Though you can't change his class or skills or anything and I don't think he even gets exp, being coded as one of the guest units like you can recruit from another house in the main game for a chapter. -Of course the best temporary playable characters are Glade's mook squad. Edited April 18, 2022 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randoman Posted April 18, 2022 Author Share Posted April 18, 2022 1 hour ago, JimmyBeans said: I guess Eyvel would be close, but not hit the criteria, even though it's the very end of the game. In Revelation you could probably count Scarlet for that. Can't really think of anyone else, so would that be it? Yeah, with Eyvel being recruitable again near the end, she doesn't count. For Scarlet, I consider her to be a "branching path" character, since Revelations is technically one of the three paths you can choose for Fates. That, and Gunter is in a similar situation in Birthright, where picking a certain story path renders him a temporarily playable character, but other story paths make him a permanent character. 49 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said: Genealogy has the record for this, heh. If we don't count Berhara BBQ for this, then just Dierdre, Quan, and Ethlyn. Also Finn if we also don't count him returning for Gen 2. I've added a rule that excludes the Genealogy of the Holy War Generation 1 characters, due to the game being structured very differently than other Fire Emblem games cast/story-wise. 18 minutes ago, Jotari said: I think the best way to class it would be, "this character is fully playable, but you don't get to view their ending (provided the game has ending blurb cards)" -The Black Knight is a pretty straight case of this in Radiant Dawn. -Edelgard, Hubert and Flayn all pull this in Three Houses, depending on your route. -If I remember Aelfric is also something like this in Cindered Shadows, being fully playable in one chapter. Though you can't change his class or skills or anything and I don't think he even gets exp, being coded as one of the guest units like you can recruit from another house in the main game for a chapter. -Of course the best temporary playable characters are Glade's mook squad. I'm not too familar with Radiant Dawn or the Three Houses DLC, so I'll take your word on the Black Knight and Aelfric. Edelgard, Hubert and Flayn, I'd classify as "branching path" characters. I actually forgot about Glade's playable squad, and I played and defeated Thracia 776. Kind of curious, that's the only time you get a squad like that in any of the Fire Emblem games, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Randoman said: I've added a rule that excludes the Genealogy of the Holy War Generation 1 characters, due to the game being structured very differently than other Fire Emblem games cast/story-wise. Even with that I'd say Dierdre, Quan, and Ethlyn still count, since they leave much earlier than the rest. So for all intents they fulfill the criteria. 1 minute ago, Randoman said: I actually forgot about Glade's playable squad, and I played and defeated Thracia 776. Kind of curious, that's the only time you get a squad like that in any of the Fire Emblem games, correct? SoV has one of its Deliverance DLC maps where you control a few redshirts alongside Clive and Fernand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Randoman said: I'm not too familar with Radiant Dawn or the Three Houses DLC, so I'll take your word on the Black Knight and Aelfric. Edelgard, Hubert and Flayn, I'd classify as "branching path" characters. The Black Knight is the only real straight example other than Orson, at least as far as I can think of. Even Aelfric is a borderline case. Another borderling example is a character from the prologue of Shadow Dragon. One of them will be rendered unplayable for the remainder of the game, but you get to choose which one. Quote I actually forgot about Glade's playable squad, and I played and defeated Thracia 776. Kind of curious, that's the only time you get a squad like that in any of the Fire Emblem games, correct? As far as fully playable generics, yeah. Some games give you access to generics like Shadow Dragon and Fates, but at least they have names. Thracia has completely generic generics who are available for just one map of the main story. If they ever get a remake it'd be great to give them the same names as the Shadow Dragon generics. Edited April 18, 2022 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenticular Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 Dubious and borderline, but Seteth, Catherine and Alois can all be playable in Crimson Flower for a single paralogue chapter only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randoman Posted April 18, 2022 Author Share Posted April 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said: Even with that I'd say Dierdre, Quan, and Ethlyn still count, since they leave much earlier than the rest. So for all intents they fulfill the criteria. I personally don't count Dierdre, Quan, and Ethlyn, since all of the Generation 1 characters (aside from Finn) stop being playable after Chapter 5 anyways. That, and Dierdre, Quan, and Ethlyn don't feel the same as Orson and the Black Knight, playability-wise or character treatment-wise. I mean, people consider Dierdre, Quan, and Ethlyn to be as much of playable characters as Edain or Beowolf. Though for Orson, most people wouldn't consider him a playable character like they would Seth or Forde. Likewise, people wouldn't consider The Black Knight to be a playable character in the same way they would Edward, or Laura. But since it's a debatable call, people can list those 3 in the thread if they want to. 1 hour ago, Jotari said: Even Aelfric is a borderline case. Could you explain Aelfric's case? I've tried looking him up in the Fire Emblem Wiki, and it doesn't say much about his playability, or him being available/unavailable on different routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Randoman said: Could you explain Aelfric's case? I've tried looking him up in the Fire Emblem Wiki, and it doesn't say much about his playability, or him being available/unavailable on different routes. He's not in a chooseable route. He's in the DLC, where he's playable for one chapter. You don't get to set his skills or class before the chapter and during the chapter he doesn't receive any exp or wexp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightKnight77 Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 In addition to Gunter in BR and Scarlet in Rev, there's also Rinkah in CQ, who you only get for 2 chapters in the prologue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 19 minutes ago, lenticular said: Dubious and borderline, but Seteth, Catherine and Alois can all be playable in Crimson Flower for a single paralogue chapter only. If one includes Alois for this (I don't think I personally would, because the player can recruit him later), then one can potentially also include Ingrid, Dorothea, Ashe, Shamir, Hanneman, Manuela, Raphael, and Ignatz. CF Seteth and Catherine are definitely interesting cases though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randoman Posted April 18, 2022 Author Share Posted April 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Jotari said: He's not in a chooseable route. He's in the DLC, where he's playable for one chapter. You don't get to set his skills or class before the chapter and during the chapter he doesn't receive any exp or wexp. Ah, that's definitely an interesting case. Not getting Exp or WExp definitely emphasizes the "Temporary Playable Character" status he has (I mean, a good chunk of video games with experience systems tend to not give experience to temporary playable characters). But at the same time, I feel like being DLC only and not part of the main game disqualifies him? I'm not even sure if I'd classify him as an "Orson Type Character", myself. I mean, I guess he'd technically count, but I wouldn't put him in the same category as Orson or The Black Knight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 16 minutes ago, Randoman said: Ah, that's definitely an interesting case. Not getting Exp or WExp definitely emphasizes the "Temporary Playable Character" status he has (I mean, a good chunk of video games with experience systems tend to not give experience to temporary playable characters). But at the same time, I feel like being DLC only and not part of the main game disqualifies him? I'm not even sure if I'd classify him as an "Orson Type Character", myself. I mean, I guess he'd technically count, but I wouldn't put him in the same category as Orson or The Black Knight. Spoiler If it helps, his motivation and reason for not being playable are pretty much identical to Orson's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 Spoiler One such character is Zeek (Zieg?), from Tear Ring Saga. He's a strong unit who's around for a while in the early-to-midgame, but disappears before coming back as an enemy. Also seconding the call of Dierdre, Quan, and Ethlyn in FE4, for becoming unplayable before the endgame of Gen I (i.e. Chapter 5). Spoilers for TRS, Genealogy above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 What's particularly notable about Quan and Ethlyn is that when they do return, it's as green units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan--Grandmaster Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 From a narrative perspective I feel like Fernand goes through a similar thing when he betrays the Deliverance. Hardin also kind of fits into this category, but not truly since he leaves in between games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randoman Posted April 18, 2022 Author Share Posted April 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Jotari said: Hide contents If it helps, his motivation and reason for not being playable are pretty much identical to Orson's. Hide contents Ooh... That's really interesting. I didn't think they'd have expys of Orson. Not that that's a bad thing. Though even with that factor taken into account, I still feel like being DLC kind of puts Aelfric in a different category than Orson or The Black Knight. Well, since Aelfric is a debatable call, people can list him in this thread if they want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Jotari said: Reveal hidden contents If it helps, his motivation and reason for not being playable are pretty much identical to Orson's. "Darling... Darling... Darling..." Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones, rated E for Everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 18 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: "Darling... Darling... Darling..." Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones, rated E for Everyone! I'd let my kids play it. They've got to learn about necrophilia somewhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: "Darling... Darling... Darling..." Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones, rated E for Everyone! Not the weirdest case of a game getting a rating that is rather questionable, considering some of the stuff that is shown up in it... Anyways, I don't really think I can add any more to this thread. Other than the fact that if Sacred Stones is remade, they really need to flesh Orson out. As is, he's underdeveloped, and his motives make negative sense. Edited April 19, 2022 by Shadow Mir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenticular Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 7 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said: If one includes Alois for this (I don't think I personally would, because the player can recruit him later), then one can potentially also include Ingrid, Dorothea, Ashe, Shamir, Hanneman, Manuela, Raphael, and Ignatz. CF Seteth and Catherine are definitely interesting cases though. That was just a pure brain-fart moment on my part. For some reason I was thinking that you couldn't recruit Alois in CF, even though I know full well that you can. Ignore that part and pretend I just said Catherine and Seteth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 10 hours ago, Shadow Mir said: Not the weirdest case of a game getting a rating that is rather questionable, considering some of the stuff that is shown up in it... Anyways, I don't really think I can add any more to this thread. Other than the fact that if Sacred Stones is remade, they really need to flesh Orson out. As is, he's underdeveloped, and his motives make negative sense. We don't get a lot of Orson, true, but his motives are clear and consistent. He hasn't gotten over his wife's death, and wants her back. The villains offer a way to bring her back, so he betrays his home country for their help. I don't think he needs much more than that. Hell, they were even hard-working enough to give him a slightly-different portrait with dark eye circles in the map where you fight him. Representing his descent into obsession, and withdrawal from the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) Technically two of the lords in Three Houses meet the criteria of "playable at first, but become unplayable and unrecruitable after certain points in the story." You play all three in the prologue, and when you choose to teach one of their Houses after the prologue, the other two "leave the party" permanently. They're only playable for one chapter (outside of DLC, anyway), but so is Orson. Depending on how hard and fast the "become unplayable and unrecruitable" criterion is, you could count Dedue in the Blue Lions route too; he will only rejoin you in Azure Moon if you did his sidequest during White Clouds, and there is no way of knowing in advance that that is a prerequisite for him rejoining you. By a similar token to Dedue, Wallace in the Blazing Blade will only show up in Eliwood's/Hector's tale if the Lords' levels are low enough in the mid-game to trigger the map in which he shows up; otherwise, he arguably "becomes unplayable and unrecruitable" after Lyn's tale too. Edited April 20, 2022 by Paper Jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dingo Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 I wanna see more bosses being good men who go crazy trying to resurrect a woman named Monica! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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