Alternate Transformation mechanics

[Jotari]

So this is something people have suggested ever since beasts were introduced that they've added recently. Beast units that break away from the standard rules of transformation. Thus far it's always been shot down with the logic of "a unit can't do something more special with the transformation requirements because they cpuldnjust use the lower level weapons". But now we have Feral Muraim with his turn based transformations, so it is possible...only who's left to actually make use of it?

One of the early suggestions was Fomortiis, but they decided to make him a tome unit when they put him in the game.

Other suggestions (tangentially related) were to make the Dragon Laguz actual breath units but also with the transformation mechanic, but they decided not to do that when they put the Dragon Laguz in as seasonals.

And despite feral Laguz being a big thing in Tellius, the very nature of them means we have very fee characters that actually fit the bill. Even Muraim is feral for all of two minutes. If they get creative Izuka could be a beast unit using the feral mechanics (or something different from the norm) but I doubt they'll do that, he'll be a red tome unit or at best a staff unit. Though he could be a non beast unit who provides beast support such as forcing nearby beast units to transform.

There's Rajajion or however you spell Ashnard's mounts name. He could be a unit in the vein of Muraim if they decide to add him, only he'd probably be a breath unit and not a beast unit, see "Dragon Laguz" above.

There's also non canon feral versions of the Laguz that already exist. Fallen Ranulf etc. 

Rafiel feels like a special case being a bird unit without bird movement. They've already made him a regular infantry as a seasonal (despite how illfitting the standard infantry effect is for a heron), but there's still his default variation they could do something good with (maybe a bird unit who auto transforms with 3 movement for the first three turns, but on the fourth turn onwards he can't transform and is restricted to 2 movement symbolizing his injuries, that's be pretty neat, still would be able to fly over impassable tiles after turn 3 though, which wouldn't be accurate, but I'd he fine with that for the sake of something accurate).

Outside of Tellius we have some other options. I think Miklan or Dedue could definitely have a transformation where they need to wait until turn 3 or something, but then it's permanent to reflect how the transformation works in Three Houses lore, only issue there is that they we already have Hegemon Edelgard who is a regular beast unit (though my suggested mechanic could have been a great way to limit the absurdity of her as a unit).

That's everything I can think of. Do you have any ideas for units that could have different transformation mechanics from the standard ones they've been using thus far, or opinions about the effects of the units I've already brought up?

Edited May 19, 2022 by Jotari

[Ice Dragon]

I don't think they'll change the transformation movement-type bonus effect unless they do it with every unit of the type like they did with infantry. We already have both Rafiel, Freyja, New Year Selkie, and Summer Freyr who aren't particularly well-suited for their movement type's effect.

I don't really expect to see any other transformation conditions other than the two we've already gotten (standard and feral) except maybe a feral-type permanent transformation on turn 3, but as I've previously mentioned, I do expect to see Izca have a skill effect that can force allied beast units to transform regardless of their transform condition.

Even though Fomortiis is already represented in Fallen Lyon, I still kind of expect to see an eventual beast Lyon, perhaps as a Legendary Hero or Mythic Hero. We are still severely lacking in armored beasts, and I don't really think there are enough lions to make up for it. We basically just have Giffca, Skrimir, and Soane remaining.

[Othin]

Theoretically, they could still do transformations on non-seasonal dragon Laguz who actually have prfs.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't think they'll change the transformation movement-type bonus effect unless they do it with every unit of the type like they did with infantry. We already have both Rafiel, Freyja, New Year Selkie, and Summer Freyr who aren't particularly well-suited for their movement type's effect.

It's small, but Muraim's standard condition beyond transformation is changed too. Normal infantry deal +10 damage, he deals+7...which, yeah that it literally the exact same effect only less powerful, but they might have just went with that because they're making him a special focused unit in general. I think it's good as a rule of thumb to expect nothing, but it would be nice if they did make some more focused effects. Honestly they probably should have just never had the Youngling etc weapons from the beginning and either give all beast units a standard and + version of their weapons, or just have them all have their prf right away even at 3 or 4 stars for more varied abilities. I've been thinking for a while now of making a general "How beasts should have been handled" thread, since even from the start everyone was of the opinion they blue their load to early with the choice of untis on the first banner.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't really expect to see any other transformation conditions other than the two we've already gotten (standard and feral) except maybe a feral-type permanent transformation on turn 3, but as I've previously mentioned, I do expect to see Izca have a skill effect that can force allied beast units to transform regardless of their transform condition.

Thing with standard and feral variations is...who are the other ferals? Miklan and Dedue are literally the only canon units who can fall into that category (assuming Rajaion is a breath unit who can't transform). Unless we just recurringly get hypothetical feral laguz alts each year on the fallen Heroes banner. It's quite possible Muraim could remain alone and unique as the only "different transformation type" for the remainder of the game.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Even though Fomortiis is already represented in Fallen Lyon, I still kind of expect to see an eventual beast Lyon, perhaps as a Legendary Hero or Mythic Hero. We are still severely lacking in armored beasts, and I don't really think there are enough lions to make up for it. We basically just have Giffca, Skrimir, and Soane remaining.

 I would love it, but I don't really expect it. Fallen Lyon already covers the character more or less entirely. Sure, that's also kind of true with some of the legendary alts and such, but also, just in general, if Beast Lyon was on their radar at any point I think they would have just done so when they first released him.

As for other armoued beast units, there is also Miklan and Dedue as I've mentioned already (and also Monica's Father, but I doubt they'll ever go for him, dang Three Houses generic designs). And now that I think of it, Aelfric too, who could possibly use the feral mechanic. But if they do fill out the feral mechanic with Three Houses armoured units then Hegemon Edelgard is going to start standing out, course there is also some lore reasons for her to be different.

Still even with those Three Houses units, there's not a whole lot, but throw in some Halloween Giffca's and Christmas Caineghis and you fill things out. Again, would love a proper Fomortiis, I just genuinely think they never considered the possibility (much like how they just won't consider the possibility of making Izuka a beast unit).

8 minutes ago, Othin said:

Theoretically, they could still do transformations on non-seasonal dragon Laguz who actually have prfs.

True. The fact that Seasonals (by and large) have inherited weapons kind of leaves it as still possible. On the other hand they have released plenty of seasonal beast units with prfs, so if they were ever considering giving dragon laguz a transformation mechanic they easily could have. But, much like Beast Fomortiis, they just weren't considering it. Fallen Tiki came out not long after beast units were introduced and she functionally has a transformation mechanic with her C skill, yet they didn't think to connect the dots and make her a transforming unit, so even when they're stating a character around such a gimmick, actually making a non beast transform seems to be outside of their scope.

[Othin]

27 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's small, but Muraim's standard condition beyond transformation is changed too. Normal infantry deal +10 damage, he deals+7...which, yeah that it literally the exact same effect only less powerful, but they might have just went with that because they're making him a special focused unit in general.

That's what other infantry changed to as of Book 6 - see Ash's weapon.

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's small, but Muraim's standard condition beyond transformation is changed too. Normal infantry deal +10 damage, he deals+7...which, yeah that it literally the exact same effect only less powerful, but they might have just went with that because they're making him a special focused unit in general.

Muarim's transformation effect is the same as the updated infantry effect. The old effect was +10 damage. The new effect is +7 damage with Tempo.

 

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Thing with standard and feral variations is...who are the other ferals?

Fomortiis.

[Jotari]

12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Fomortiis.

Muraim's effects is kind of chaotic in nature. He alternates his transformation on different turns showing him fighting off the feral drug with it gradually consuming him. For the same kind of mechanic to have resonance with Fomortiis it'd need to be some kind of half way state where both Lyon and the Demon King are struggling for control. Which would give a character justification for why the unit should exist beyond Fallen Lyon with a different weapon.

Or hell, just make him pure Fomortiis and give him a new human design (because it would be a weird for if, in the transition, he goes from beast when partial control to ghostly image when full control). Make it the old Formortiis that Grado and the other heroes fought. Though if it's a pure Fomortiis, again, the feral mechanics don't suit on a thematic level. What I would like to see for a unique transformation ability for him would be transforming by sucking the life out of adjacent allied units. Because not only is that more thematically fitting for him, but being able to freely injure your own units is actually a super useful niche.

 

Another unit I could see being a beast unit is Rinea. We have RInea as a seasonal dancer, and we have her image appearing as an unoffical proto duo with Berkut, but we don't have the actual Rinea you fight in Shadows of Valentia. If transformations were free to pass to non beast units she could make for a transforming tome unit, but otherwise I could still see her as a transforming beast unit that deals magical damage. It'd kind of turn her into a breath unit that is unaffected by breath weaknesses (kind of like Sothis, I guess, only actually a different unit type just dealing the same range/attack type). Give her the ability to freely warp around to any adjacent ally and you have a fun unit either way (having such an ability works particularly interestingly with a transforming unit as it always puts you adjacent to someone which can affect how she transforms next time if not using the Feral version. If she could get a unique one maybe she could transform when beside either cavalry units or sword/lance/axe units to reference Berkut).

Edited May 19, 2022 by Jotari