Emblem Inheritable Skill Tier List now that SP is easier to get?

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Are there even any maps with breakables after you get Ike? Only one I can think of is his paralogue.

Doors in 14 and 25, as well as Marth's paralogue (though the enemy will open that one for you if you wait a little). Possibly others, but yeah, extremely little.

[Technoweirdo]

2 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Um, no. Rally Spectrum ain't in the game; the closest you get in Instruct with Dragon, which only one character can do for the majority of the game. Also, to be blunt, you are overrating Quality Time.

Rally Spectrum -is- in the game as of Wave 3.

[Shadow Mir]

43 minutes ago, Technoweirdo said:

Rally Spectrum -is- in the game as of Wave 3.

Oh. Bugger. *headdesk* That's on me, as I really didn't check Chrom's skillset.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[Alear]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Um, no. Rally Spectrum ain't in the game; the closest you get in Instruct with Dragon, which only one character can do for the majority of the game (and even then, it's only usable while engaged). Also, to be blunt, you are overrating Quality Time.

Rally spectrums inheritable from Emblem Chrom and quality time feels great to me because of the low cost and so I don't have to constantly buy vulneraries. The 5 hp it gives came in clutch for some chapters.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Alear

[Xylaugheon Daily]

50 minutes ago, Alear said:

Rally spectrums inheritable from Emblem Chrom and quality time feels great to me because of the low cost and so I don't have to constantly buy vulneraries. The 5 hp it gives came in clutch for some chapters.

Rally Spectrum + Geosphere on my Griffin Ivy is bonkers. Best support I've had in the game thus far. Paired with an Assign Decoy user or two and there is next to nothing I can't control, player and enemy phase.

And, in case it wasn't known, Rally Spectrum stacks with Byleth's Instruct. With Sharena's Bond Ring, you're looking at so crazy numbers, like a +13 defensive stat. You can get some nutty stuff going, like applying Draconic Hex + Anima Focus for maximum stat alterations.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Xylaugheon Daily

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Alear said:

Rally spectrums inheritable from Emblem Chrom and quality time feels great to me because of the low cost and so I don't have to constantly buy vulneraries. The 5 hp it gives came in clutch for some chapters.

I was already corrected on Rally Spectrum, but the problem with Quality Time is this: would I be better running this over most anything else with more tangible benefits?? I am already leaning heavily towards "no" here, as 5 HP is nothing at the point where you get Corrin. And as if if that wasn't enough the "upgrade" is gated behind Corrin's paralogue, AND at an unreasonably high bond level to boot (to put things into perspective, Quality Time is obtained at bond level 3. QT+ isn't until bond level 18). This upgrade only restores 10 HP, which is STILL less than a vulnerary, for how expensive it is bond fragment wise. I cannot reasonably see something that paltry in A. At all.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[Alear]

55 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Quality Time is obtained at bond level 3. QT+ isn't until bond level 18). This upgrade only restores 10 HP, which is STILL less than a vulnerary, for how expensive it is bond fragment wise. I cannot reasonably see something that paltry in A. At all.

It's because the skill can be obtained at bond level 3 that I think its so good. You're not trying to upgrade it to QT+ because it's not worth the SP or the bond fragments. By slapping QT on Seadall or your rally character, they can heal at the very least 1 unit while providing support. Obviously you won't be slapping this on any of your carries over a skill like canter or holdout, but it's a great skill for support units. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Alear

[Shadow Mir]

8 hours ago, Alear said:

It's because the skill can be obtained at bond level 3 that I think its so good. You're not trying to upgrade it to QT+ because it's not worth the SP or the bond fragments. By slapping QT on Seadall or your rally character, they can heal at the very least 1 unit while providing support. Obviously you won't be slapping this on any of your carries over a skill like canter or holdout, but it's a great skill for support units. 

If it's something I'm only slapping on, say, Seadall (who, despite him being the dancer unit in this game, I don't care for enough to devote a unit slot to him over someone else I actually like), then it's not A tier material. FFS, I'd say Build+, which the reddit tier list list has in F, is more helpful overall thanks to a good chunk of units having build problems.

On Rally Spectrum: Who would stand out as being good to put it on?

Edited March 13, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[DefyingFates]

3 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

On Rally Spectrum: Who would stand out as being good to put it on?

Good question and one I've been pondering too: It'd have to be a support unit, right? Hortensia if she has no one to heal at the moment perhaps, or a Martial Master when they aren't attacking or Chain Guarding?

[samthedigital]

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

Good question and one I've been pondering too: It'd have to be a support unit, right? Hortensia if she has no one to heal at the moment perhaps, or a Martial Master when they aren't attacking or Chain Guarding?

Hortensia wants DP+ and Canter, so probably not her. I'm not sure if Rally Spectrum stacks with the Byleth buff or not, but the Byleth user could be an option if they don't. Otherwise I'd probably go with my least important combat unit which would probably end up being one of the spoiler units.

[DaveCozy]

15 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Would they all be able to use it though? Panette for example may prefer Vantage/ Wrath, and I'm sure there are some units who'd need more specialized builds too. Canter seems (at least to me) more like a skill you use when you don't have something more specific planned for a unit.

To use my Alear example aagin, mine is a avoid-tank with Avo +30 and Pair Up to block chain attacks. I have Canter at the moment to help with farming, but I don't know how useful it'd be in TT or more serious maps.

Then again, you guys have put way more empirical thought into this so I really want to hear what you have to say!

Canter elevates a lot of units in terms of positioning. Basically everyone who is earning EXP/SP on player phase can do well with Canter. The only actions that don't activate Canter are those which don't earn EXP/SP... such as Wait, Repositon, using an item, Instruct, Dragon Vein.

Technically you don't need Canter to have your unit be good. Specially if you have specific plans for a unit that don't involve them player phasing or maybe you want a more immediate boost even then; Alfred for e.g. only activates his ability if he chooses Wait, and so if you are looking to use him longterm and take advantage of his ability in some way, then you may want to consider something else. Clanne is another e.g., a Mage unit who has pretty dodgy magic growth but great speed growth, so maybe you would prefer Mag+2 instead. Even then though, Canter is still there to help for most other player phase actions, so it's hardly ever a bad investment.

Like I said in that post, I'd say definitely consider Canter at least for your units that get danced the most; let's say about 6~7 of them, at the very least. Including Alear and Seadall in that too. It makes setting up Goddess Dance a lot less cumbersome. Even Micaiah staff healing is easier too, even if you don't like skipping strategies there's net benefit there too.

Edited March 13, 2023 by DaveCozy

[DefyingFates]

55 minutes ago, samthedigital said:

Hortensia wants DP+ and Canter

Oh, does that work for offensive staves too? (In hindsight, that actually makes sense...)

[samthedigital]

14 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Oh, does that work for offensive staves too? (In hindsight, that actually makes sense...)

Yeah, it does.

[Dark Holy Elf]

10 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

FFS, I'd say Build+, which the reddit tier list list has in F, is more helpful overall thanks to a good chunk of units having build problems.

The problem with Build+ is that even for units who have "build problems", Speed+ is a better skill in all ways except for the slightly higher bond fragment cost. Which only leaves Build+ as (a) having a slight niche in Chapter 9-11 after you get Leif and before you get Lyn, and (b) if you plan on using both to get as much speed as possible, but even then Build+ is at best a stopgap until you get Speedtaker, and delays you getting that. And that assumes you really have no better use for that second skill slot.

I'd certainly still rate it above F tier (and probably above Quality Time) though, basically agree with you.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

The problem with Build+ is that even for units who have "build problems", Speed+ is a better skill in all ways except for the slightly higher bond fragment cost. Which only leaves Build+ as (a) having a slight niche in Chapter 9-11 after you get Leif and before you get Lyn, and (b) if you plan on using both to get as much speed as possible, but even then Build+ is at best a stopgap until you get Speedtaker, and delays you getting that. And that assumes you really have no better use for that second skill slot.

I'd certainly still rate it above F tier (and probably above Quality Time) though, basically agree with you.

Fair point.

On Speedtaker: I would honestly find running it on more than one unit (or inheriting it at all, for that matter) to be problematic, for if more than one unit has it, your Speedtaker units then step on each other's toes trying to reap its benefits...

[Dark Holy Elf]

52 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

On Speedtaker: I would honestly find running it on more than one unit (or inheriting it at all, for that matter) to be problematic, for if more than one unit has it, your Speedtaker units then step on each other's toes trying to reap its benefits...

I'd say this is definitely an issue if you planned to get it for, say, six people, but it's not an issue at all for two, probably not even three. You're surely killing more than one enemy on the player phase, right? Often significantly more. If you're killing at least three, then you have to use at least two units to do it (barring the Goddess Dance turns I guess). Just give those kills to your Speedtaker units (who will probably have some of your highest player phase killing power to start with, that's why you chose to give them Speedtaker).

[BloodRonin]

Is this for Pre Chapter 10 or  anytime?

As mentioned above, Lunar Brace shot up a lot. I was able to get it in my 2nd run after planning for it, but now (and especially if you have DLC) you can get so much SP it is insane.

Reprisal Roy is top tier imo for Melee, or Holdout Veronica for Casters (concepts are very similar) (Technically same combo can be done with Leif as well, but I haven't tested it yet to see if it is worth or not)

My new favorite combo of all time is a combo that imo, makes the Roy emblem a lot better. It involves using Vantage with Reprisal (even better assuming you can the max versions).  I suppose I will dub it Reprisal Roy. Roy already gives any character a range 1-2 sword with Binding Blade when engaged along with extra stats from Rise Above, but just as effective with anyone that can use a 1-2 range weapon, and is useful at all times as you don' need to be engaged to benefit from reprisal hold out vantage combo.

Roy at max bond will give +10hp +6 STR and +3 Res. The res doesn't matter. But the HP is nice since it helps add the extra damage from Reprisal (50% of missing HP is added to attack at max, 30 for the rank 1 version) and the extra STR is also nice for even more damage. This can technically be done with the levin sword as well for targets with high def, and is particularly useful with Celine since she can benefit from Ignis. It is also really fun with Panette since she has such high str and hp growths, though her usual crit build also works well too. I tried this with a tomahawk Diamont, but his random healing from SOL also caused me to lose out on damage at times, but did make him pretty much unkillable. 

I tried a caster version of this with Veronica. Basically the same concept but you inherit hold out from Roy emblem and vantage. (technically this makes it so you could have a caster version and a melee version both running at once assuming you had enough SP for the Roy wielder and for the Veronica one too). I found the caster version to be really useful since you can use it majority of the game, (though you will not be able to get max vantage or hold out til later on, but with planning can still get both skills before you lose your emblems) Again, I found Celine to benefit from this a lot since she make great use of levin sword. Though You can use this combo with pretty much any caster, (or even levin sword using Gryphon knights)

Edited March 15, 2023 by BloodRonin

[Armchair General]

On 3/13/2023 at 5:34 PM, Shadow Mir said:

On Speedtaker: I would honestly find running it on more than one unit (or inheriting it at all, for that matter) to be problematic, for if more than one unit has it, your Speedtaker units then step on each other's toes trying to reap its benefits...

I think it depends on the map, tbh. Since the effect is capped at 5 kills and there's at 30 enemies on an given map once you get Lyn; I'd say that you're kind of pushing it when you have 5 or 6 units. But it's kind of justifiable to have it on most of your front-liners, in an way.

As for what else it goes well that isn't Alacrity, it's kind of hard to say. Since stacking it with Dodge from the twins or Marth's Avoid bonuses might be overkill.

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Armchair General

[samthedigital]

7 hours ago, Armchair General said:

I think it depends on the map, tbh. Since the effect is capped at 5 kills and there's at 30 enemies on an given map once you get Lyn; I'd say that you're kind of pushing it when you have 5 or 6 units. But it's kind of justifiable to have it on most of your front-liners, in an way.

It's also going to depend on how you choose to play too. I like to warp skip more than a handful of maps, so Speedtaker is naturally going to be less valuable to me.