I recently had an epiphany on Supports in recent FE games.

[Pokejedservo]

Ladies & Gentlemen just recently I had a little epiphany regarding the Fire Emblem series.

 

Nowadays some are wondering why in the current FE games such as Three Houses & Engage that only the Avatar gets S Supports. In which in 3 Houses only the Avatar gets an S Support while the others get Paired Endings but you get limited control over who gets what. (In which its only mildly helped by DLC content.) Meanwhile Engage forgoes this and only the Avatar gets a paired ending.

 

So why can't most of the playable characters get to have S Supports with each-other anymore like in most of the 3DS games? I think I figured out the reason why, namely the lack of the "Child Unit" mechanic. You see folks in Awakening & Fates if two characters (of the opposite sex) can get a Support Chain up to A then you can get them to a S then both units will produce a child. You can do this at pretty much anytime during the game for the most part (however some units can only do this with the Avatar). While there were criticisms over how thanks to this pairings had to be strictly Hetero only but Fates did try to fix this... sort of.

 

However after Fates the concept is seemingly retired for now. But the way Fates handled it with the Deeprealms was rather controversial to say the least. In which at best it was criticized for being baffling & contrived (in which the kids were kept at the Deeprealms so they would be safe from the war even though they were often anything but that). In which at worse it was criticized for being a little too OK with things like Pedophilia. (In which at least in Awakening you can picture certain pairings happening in the future rather than right away.)

While fans are for the most part OK with the fact that Fire Emblem has for now stopped doing the "Child Unit" mechanic. But now we wonder why can't most of the playable characters S Support each-other anymore? I'm thinking that one potential solution in the recent FE games is to lock the S Supports into later on in the game. (Like later on in the Time Skip in each of the routes in Three Houses for example.) In which I dunno about you folks but I would totally be OK with that.

 

So what do you folks think?

[indigoasis]

The way I see it, the endgame Avatar S support of Three Houses and Engage is really just an option given to the player as a way to cap off the end of the game the way they want to. And yeah, since there are no child units, having S supports is more or less unnecessary. However, and this has always bothered me, some of the A supports in Three Houses end up feeling like pseudo-S supports, and it's so wild seeing one character confessing their love for another character in one support, and then doing the exact same thing in another A support.

12 hours ago, Pokejedservo said:

while the others get Paired Endings but you get limited control over who gets what.

This is generally true. You could mitigate this by only choosing the A supports you want to have, kinda like the GBA games where units get like five supports at max, so you only have the option to get one A support per unit. The problem with that is you'll end up missing out on completion and gameplay bonuses that, while fairly minimal, can still have a large impact. Support between units can still build up after A support, so as long as they stick together, you could get the endings you want, but it's kind of a hassle if it means that much for a player to have to do that.

[joevar]

On 3/24/2023 at 12:11 PM, Pokejedservo said:

While fans are for the most part OK with the fact that Fire Emblem has for now stopped doing the "Child Unit" mechanic. But now we wonder why can't most of the playable characters S Support each-other anymore? I'm thinking that one potential solution in the recent FE games is to lock the S Supports into later on in the game. (Like later on in the Time Skip in each of the routes in Three Houses for example.) In which I dunno about you folks but I would totally be OK with that.

first of all, because theres no impact at all to the story, and very minimal impact to the gameplay mechanic.  Locking S support to late game is what they've been doing with 3H and Engage S support. which i dont know what effect it has outside more bonuses when adjacent for 3 house, while engage has a little bit bonus beyond that, but thats it.

awakening did it best so far. since its tied closely with the story, and gameplay mechanic.
its also have funny implication that maybe the world will be doomed if the protagonists never had any offspring lol

if they want FE to go full Visual Novel, then S-Support should have more effect than just ending slides. even so many Visual Novels story details changes depending on who you get close with.

On 3/24/2023 at 12:11 PM, Pokejedservo said:

So what do you folks think?

personally i dont mind they dont have S support, but surely lots of newer thirsty fans wouldnt agree to that.

my gripe with S support and (the eventual result in form of) paired ending is how the paired ending feels more formulaic in the end, rather than personal. this happen in 3house where if they paired with someone, they automatically become loving husband/wife same with their spouse. or in some cases A become best bud with B , and thats it. repeat ad infinitum.

compared it with Engage there its more personal ending. but not the best too ofc, since it almost disregard any support you have.

i would love it if they go with Support and then ending that involves more than a pair. so many support, but then in the end its only you and me. 3 decades of series lifetime but this never evolve beyond that. they already show they could, evidently with Engage roll credit artwork, but why the writing team never entertain the idea is beyond me.

 

On 3/24/2023 at 12:11 PM, Pokejedservo said:

I'm thinking that one potential solution in the recent FE games is to lock the S Supports into later on in the game.

yes, this could work. but make sure it should goes both ways: lock the C support that you havent done when the story progress certain point. because i dont want to see another ugly case of someone having a complex, then overcome it, only to regress back to square one just because they start talking to someone new. 

seeing everything all over again become more of a chore. might as well several people come at certain character to engage with that person complex as one joint support than repeating the same gimmick several times.

relying on fighting adjacently for support unlock also need to be changed for this.

Edited March 25, 2023 by joevar

[Jotari]

Supports suck and get way too much attention from the Fire Emblem community.

[Samz707]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

Supports suck and get way too much attention from the Fire Emblem community.

I can't say I agree considering how FE3H's supports are part of what makes the cast so great, even as far back as FE6 some of my favourite bits in it story-wise are supports. (Such as Fae and Igrene.)

At least in FE3H Paired endings felt like a "S-Support" of sorts, though I hear Engage only has these for the Avatar and honestly I hate that, I like supports more when they're used to flesh out characters, I'd honestly rather see it like FE7 again where the Avatar has no paired ending and there's more of a focus on other characters having paired endings.

[Metal Flash]

On one hand, A-supports work fine for giving non-Avatar characters paired endings. On the other hand, having only one final romance focused support rank helps avoid situations like Hilda hinting she wants Lorenz, only to flirt pretty heavily with Caspar in another support. Then again, S-supports can come out of nowhere and have characters suddenly confess despite zero hints prior. I once thought that A+ ranks could substitute S-supports when it comes to locking in paired endings, but it would just be the same thing under a different name.

Either way, so long as we get a way to confirm paired endings I am satisfied. My main hope is that we don`t get another Engage where no one except for the Avatar gets paired endings.

I do agree that it would be ideal if supports could relate more to the current story and not be so disconnected from everything. But that brings having to lock away supports until a certain story chapter. 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

I actually prefer systems like 3H and Genealogy, where you can't directly control which units end up together (i.e. by making them "S-rank" with each other). Rather, who ends up with whom is an indirect result of gameplay decisions (i.e. leaving units next to each other, or having them "adjutant" for each other). This way, it feels like the "paired ending" is something that the characters are naturally deciding, rather than a top-down diktat from Robin of "who has to make a baby with whom". I'll take a thousand "will they, won't they" A-ranks that hint at future intimacy over a single formulaic "we've spoken four times, so I love you now, please take this ring" S-rank. Mind you, I think the S-ranks were fine for Fateswakening, given the emphasis on child units. But it's not something I'd like to see in future games, and certainly not in a hypothetical FE4 remake.

All that said, Engage not doing any paired endings outside of Alear sounds... bad. Not sure why they couldn't replicate what 3H did, I was perfectly happy with their paired endings.

[joeygreedy]

I liked paired endings, but didn't like incessant shippingness that builds up to said paired endings.

For Awakening and Fates, it leads to babies. I can excuse Awakening's time travel plot, but Fates has the single most absurd in-universe justification for a mechanic in all of Fire Emblem. The dreaded babyrealms, it doesn't help I end up detesting half the child units in that game.

Awakening oftentimes had really weird A to S support jumps, I wouldn't mind it because S supports are optional, but man do the freaking "Everyone supports everybody" system for this lead to some WEIRD ones. 

Fates has a cast that, occasionally I enjoy, but more that I actually hate. Azama deserves no shipping even if I find him hilarious, but then S support says he can knock up somebody, they take a honeymoon in the babyrealms, including people who he has been a jackass to for 3 supports so far, and then abandon said child in the babyrealms for the next 16 or so years, as does every single other person in the game, apparently. I can think of many, many people who really just... wouldn't do this, since you'd be in the middle of a GODDAMN WAR in all 3 routes. Just pop out of Valla to make babies, riiiight. This is character assassination of every single potential father, and lets not even mention the weird Elise/Sakura being older than their potential kids. though i wonder what super forrest i can make if i could have s supported elise and leo

In Three Houses, it felt like every single A support had to end in some amount of "Sail raising", as if preparing a ship and deciding who gets on which boat, this is kinda awkward NGL. I like the cast, but please. Inversely, I really like the platonic paired endings. It just gives a sense of finality to the characters and their supports, letting them just be platonic life partners, or mentor/mentee. Hell, even ones like Lysithea+Edelgard are quite nice for what it's worth, being a single page at the end of the game, but it's nice to give closure.

Engage, thankfully, doesn't suffer from the "Everything ends at shipping" syndrome. But it does feel... lacking. I know some have psuedo-paired endings such as Retainers+Lords, Seadall+Yunaka, Saphir+Lindon, Anna+Jean, Flame Lance+Magic Knife with the ending artwork, but it's lacking. It feels like nobody interacts with any other member of the cast post-ending, which is a bit sad. 

Of all these games, I can't really say a single one did it completely right, Engage doesn't have any, Awakening is the closest and at least the S supports are "in the future", Fates has babyrealms and my least favorite characters so I can't bring myself to care, Three Houses has the part where it creeps into the regular supports, and Engage outright doesn't have any.