FE8 Tier list!

[Mekkah]

The site has him on L10 and I recall him being able to use the Master Seal right away. FEA has many stupid errors, such as Kyle/Forde having too high base levels.

Eh, it's fine as 1/0 too, it doesn't change a whole lot. They are still frighteningly close, but again, Ewan grows a shitload faster.

[Lord Raven]

It could've been stuff from Jap -> Eng but we should definitely tell Twilks. >_>

... but I've pretty much seen the light. Ewan, regardless of the route, has three chapters to gain 9 levels with a high EXP gain rate. And even then he has another two levels before he ends up beating Knoll which is the point...

[FionordeQuester]

Alright, so just to be clear, everyones read the Gamefaqs topic and have already looked at their arguments before posting here? Cuz I'm not updating the tier list until that happens, because I'd be damned if we made a mistake that could've been avoided had we learned something from their arguments.

[dondon151]

Why the hell do we have to read the GameFAQs topic? We're not idiots.

[FionordeQuester]

I know. But what if some of them noticed things we didn't? Look, believe it or not, they actually had a pretty interesting discussion about why they believe X should be above Y (yes, this was back in the days when it wasn't completely dominated by newbs), and considering this is a tier list they made, I think we could at least read their arguments before judging whether or not they're wrong.

Edited January 2, 2009 by FionordeQuester

[Lord Raven]

Or we could argue and see if you have anything to counter our logic with. After all, you brought it.

[Mekkah]

Link me the damn topic first, then I might read it.

[FionordeQuester]

...I did give the link to the topic, back on page 1, but here it is...

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage....;topic=44544992

Edited January 2, 2009 by FionordeQuester

[Mekkah]

oh, that topic? it's still full of idiots. i've seen monkeys have more intelligent convos.

[Robert]

Epic

Ephraim (Eph)

Franz

Seth

Moulder

Eirika (Eir)

Artur

Lute

Duessel (Eph)down

High

Ephraim (Eir)

Cormag (Eph)

Vanessa

Gerik (Eir)

Tethys (Eir)

Eirika (Eph)

Joshua

Colm

Gerik (Eph)

Middle

Forde

Kyle

Tanaup

Gilliamup one

Tethys (Eph)

Ross

Garcia

Cormag (Eir)

Marisa (Eir)

Saleh (Eir)

Low

Duessel (Eir)

L'Arachel

Innes (Eir)

Marisa (Eph)upper

Rennac

Myrrhdown

Neimi

Fail

Innes (Eph)

Ewanway up

Natasha

Saleh (Eph)

Ameliaway up

Syrene{middle

Dozla

needs work..

All the traniees are amazing (imo)

Even syrene is useful, decent fighter and good res.

It dosent even matter really, in a game like this, you can basically make all the traniees 10/20/20 without much babing.

Gilliam can tank, and with a few speedwings? or rings? can do fairly well.

Everything else is ok

[emblempride]

Erm, Ross's placement? <_<

[_____]

needs work..

All the traniees are amazing (imo)

Even syrene is useful, decent fighter and good res.

It dosent even matter really, in a game like this, you can basically make all the traniees 10/20/20 without much babing.

Gilliam can tank, and with a few speedwings? or rings? can do fairly well.

Everything else is ok

Only Ross is decent. With his 10 extra levels, he only gains more Luck than Garcia. Everything else is nearly identical.

Amelia comes too late to be trained.

Ewan "".

She only has Res. ONLY.

Um, yeah, you keep thinking that. The Tower, Skirmishes, and Arena Abuse all count as babying.

He also has pathetic move, and you'd need to slow down to get him to the front of the pack to tank.

[Robert]

Amelia comes too late to be trained.

Fine if you consider the tower "babing" then you can still baby amelia.

even if its only a few levels in between chapters.

Ross and the trainees all have great stats.

With decent growths and 3 promotions, they always turn out great.

Who cares if it is babying if you are getting great unit(s)?

You can still use gill for defense, and there is the leg ring or boots whatever it s called.

I didnt say he was that good.

[Rei Rei]

Gilliam is High Tier, at least. The guy doesn't need that much speed, as his skill is aceptable, and has lots of defense.

[Tino]

Why the fuck is a combat failure with thieving utility that isn't as valuable as one might think above Seth?

Edited January 2, 2009 by Tino

[Mekkah]

It's an endless circle argument. Neimi and Colm rely on each other's support to be worth anything in combat. With these supports, they're both quite decent between 15/0 and endgame or so. Without them, they're nigh worthless at combat.

[Tino]

Neimi sucks at combat even with that Colm support until she promotes. Besides, Colm is always off stealing things or opening chests or whatever, since he can't do shit as a fighter. Neimi however, is sitting in the back praying not be attacked by some miserable enemy to kill her. Lol enemy magnet with terrible durability. They're not exactly near eachother a lot, so even though it's a fast support, they won't benefit from the bonuses all that often.

And Neimi is Low Tier if you ask me, so the chance that Colm will get that Neimi support is rather small, since she's not often played.

[Mekkah]

Neimi can promote very early though due to Orion's Bolt being hers for taking, and Colm can do the same unless Ross wants to be a Berserker really badly. I think you exaggerate the amount of time they spent apart. Chapters are not divided into a section with Colm stuff and a section with fighting stuff, and some don't have Colm stuff at all.

Ch4 - Nope.

Ch5 - Nope.

Ch6 - Fog of War, so basically Colm is close to your party smoking Torches. Counts as nope.

Ch7 - Nope.

Ch8 - Chests, but they will prolly take the left way since neither can do anything to the Knights, so they get to spend the majority of the chapter together.

Ch9 Eph - Chests, but after you're through the main part only.

Ch10 Eph - Nope.

Ch11 Eph - Nope.

Ch12 Eph - Nope.

Ch13 Eph - Nope, except something to steal way down south, but that's on an enemy.

Ch14 Eph - Nope.

I'd do it for more but you get the point hopefully.

I may post some analysis on early promoted Colm/Neimi later, iono.

[Mekkah]

MaraeSceptre, the new Destiny Hero???

Giliam's troubles are exactly with Spd. It's the most important stat in the game. It allows you to dodge (i.e. evade damage completely), which becomes reliable in mid and late game, which also eliminates the need for healing and such. Gilliam also risks getting doubled due to his low Spd. And what's more, it makes his offense blow (Skl only helps Hit and Crt, but the former is pretty much always reliable and the latter is pretty much always unreliable, and Skl's contribution is only half a point per point of Skl). He doesn't double, so he does half the damage he would have done otherwise.

All he has is earlygame durability. Pile on his pre-promotion mobility problems (4 mov when most have 5, some have 6 and Seth has 8), and you get something that has trouble holding up against Mid tiers.

[Tino]

I guess you're right on that one.

Still though, Neimi's lategame performance doesn't make up for her earlygame fail, I'd say.

[_____]

Fine if you consider the tower "babing" then you can still baby amelia.

even if its only a few levels in between chapters.

Ross and the trainees all have great stats.

With decent growths and 3 promotions, they always turn out great.

Who cares if it is babying if you are getting great unit(s)?

You can still use gill for defense, and there is the leg ring or boots whatever it s called.

I didnt say he was that good.

Any babying instantly drops a character. You have to go out of your way to get a decent character.

Ross is alright, but his stats are nearly identical to Garcia at the same level, which they probably won't ever be because Garcia will have a rather large level lead on him.

Amelia has good speed as a General, but FAIL movement, the same problem Gilliam faces. Why bother raising her as a Paladin when you have 4 already great ones at your disposal?

Ewan gets OHKO'd in his joining chapter. Wtf? Even then, you have Moulder, Artur, and Lute as perfectly capable Sages, and Dark Magic sucks, so he won't be a Druid.

As you can see, they aren't "great units". Not even close.

Gilliam can tank early on. That's it.

Stat Boosters aren't taken into account because anyone can use them.

[Mekkah]

Class-by-class is a stupid argument, please don't bring it up.

One of the biggest faults people make when debating has to be class-by-class comparisons.

Example: a debate between Rebecca and Harken

Rebecca is a Sniper. The only other Snipers in this game, Louise and Wil, both have inferior stats to Rebecca at pretty much any moment. This makes Rebecca the best Sniper.

Harken is a Hero. There's another Hero in this game, Raven. And when comparing their stats when Harken joins, Raven easily comes out on top due to supports and superior statistics overall. Therefore, you could conclude that Harken is the worst Hero.

Since Rebecca is the best Sniper, and Harken the worst Hero, Rebecca is better. Right?

No, not really. The catch in this faulty, but nonetheless common way of arguing is that your class makes no difference for your purpose. Both of these units are combat units. Their classes provide some attributes to their fighting, such as the fact that Harken can weild swords and axes, while Rebecca has bows, and that Rebecca can use ballistae. However, at the end of the day, they are both units meant to kill enemies. What their class is makes no further difference besides what the statistics show. Since those statistics are available - indeed, a centerpoint of debate - it is useless to bring up class any further. It is about as helpful as comparing Eliwood to all people with red hair and Hector to all people with blue hair, and then see which one is relatively better among the people with the same hair colour.

Another reason why class-by-class makes no sense is because the debate is about Rebecca vs Harken, and not Harken vs other Heroes or Rebecca vs other Snipers. Such comparisons have absolutely nothing to do with the debate at hand.

Besides above arguments, a great way to instantly counter class-by-class arguments (also called a competition argument) is by reminding your opponent which debate you are playing. If other Heroes are indeed better than Harken, and Harken is better than Rebecca (which is what the debate is about), then said other Heroes are also better than Rebecca, and it makes no difference.

[Robert]

Any babying instantly drops a character. You have to go out of your way to get a decent character.

Ross is alright, but his stats are nearly identical to Garcia at the same level, which they probably won't ever be because Garcia will have a rather large level lead on him.

Amelia has good speed as a General, but FAIL movement, the same problem Gilliam faces. Why bother raising her as a Paladin when you have 4 already great ones at your disposal?

Ewan gets OHKO'd in his joining chapter. Wtf? Even then, you have Moulder, Artur, and Lute as perfectly capable Sages, and Dark Magic sucks, so he won't be a Druid.

As you can see, they aren't "great units". Not even close.

Gilliam can tank early on. That's it.

Stat Boosters aren't taken into account because anyone can use them.

If you are getting a great character (not a decent one) and you have an infinite tower for training, you might as well.

While garcia has similar growths, ross can gain more levels. As you said, garcia is ahead, and has only slightly better stats.

Ross spd- 30% garcia- 20%

4 paladins? what about great knight? kyle and franz as great knights. 3 paladins and 2 great knights. (duessel is pathetic) .

Paladins are one of the greatest classes.

You are not supposed to visit the house until most enemies are killed. If you beat the game enough, he makes a great super trainee (all magics)

Most enemies are slow, and gilliam can match thier speed, and has good growths all around.

90 45 35 30 30 55 20

30% speed is not that bad at all.

[Mekkah]

If you are getting a great character (not a decent one) and you have an infinite tower for training, you might as well.

Abuse is instant no-no. We're looking to beat the game in an efficient way. Not to pamper a baby unit. If you want a tier list with infinite tower abuse involved, here's one:

-Top-

Everyone

-Bottom-

Ephraim

Eirika

[Robert]

Abuse is instant no-no. We're looking to beat the game in an efficient way. Not to pamper a baby unit. If you want a tier list with infinite tower abuse involved, here's one:

-Top-

Everyone

-Bottom-

Ephraim

Eirika

You misread- I meant the trainees, and not at once, just a few levels in between each chapter to bring them up to par with everyone else.