FE8 Tier list!

[_____]

You misread- I meant the trainees, and not at once, just a few levels in between each chapter to bring them up to par with everyone else.

That's still abuse. :/

[Robert]

A few levels each chapter? about 5-10 minutes? "you keep thinking that"

That is kind of the whole purpose of the tower to begin with, besides unlocking characters.

Abuse means more than just a short floor or two.

[_____]

A few levels each chapter? about 5-10 minutes? "you keep thinking that"

That is kind of the whole purpose of the tower to begin with, besides unlocking characters.

Abuse means more than just a short floor or two.

No. Abuse means using something to baby units and/or gain extra experience. I could say I made Knoll the best fighter ever by letting him go to the tower to level up, and then I fed him all of my stat boosters. Would that make him Top Tier? No.

[FionordeQuester]

So people did read the topic? Good, that's all I wanted before we moved on.

Anyways, Mekkah, your wrong about Chapter 7 not having any "Colm stuff" as you put it. What about that Energy Ring that that mage has? Sure some of the chapters might not have chests, but they could have enemies with valuable stealable items, like Chapter 7.

And anyways, Neimi isn't his only option you know. He could also gain a B support with Moulder.

[Mekkah]

Well, the Energy Ring doesn't require him to go miles out of his way, actually more like the opposite (go along with the group).

Neimi isn't his only option, but it's his best (Moulder only goes up to B, has other peoples, and doesn't benefit due to being a healplox).

[Robert]

Abuse- too much babying and such.

not just a few levels in between each chapter to bring them up to par

I did not mention stat booster again did I?

Giliam's troubles are exactly with Spd. It's the most important stat in the game. It allows you to dodge (i.e. evade damage completely), which becomes reliable in mid and late game, which also eliminates the need for healing and such. Gilliam also risks getting doubled due to his low Spd. And what's more, it makes his offense blow (Skl only helps Hit and Crt, but the former is pretty much always reliable and the latter is pretty much always unreliable, and Skl's contribution is only half a point per point of Skl). He doesn't double, so he does half the damage he would have done otherwise.

All he has is earlygame durability. Pile on his pre-promotion mobility problems (4 mov when most have 5, some have 6 and Seth has 8), and you get something that has trouble holding up against Mid tiers.

Spd can be the most important stat, however In S.S, where most of the enemies are weaker, he will not get doubled unless there is the occasional speedy unit.

Great knight makes up for the movement problem bringing it to six, which is where most units are anyway.

His str makes up for some of the damage loss for not doubling. He can still double, its not like he will never double.

He shouldnt be top tier but just moved up a tier or at least a few spaces.

Edited January 2, 2009 by MaraeSceptre

[Lord Raven]

They're not the only ones entitled to a level or two between each chapter then. So pretty much everyone's on equal grounds as a result.

I hate how the self-made ranking project on FE8 got nowhere on FESS. I calculated like 530K Gold was necessary for a hypothetical S rank so you had like 150K to spend more or less.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[Ϲharlie]

Guys, I merged the two tier topics. We don't need two topics about the same thing. Please avoid making another tier topic until this one is dead.

[Mekkah]

Spd can be the most important stat, however In S.S, where most of the enemies are weaker, he will not get doubled unless there is the occasional speedy unit.

Heroes, Valkyries, Nomad Troopers, Swordmasters, and early on, Brigands/Fighters have a good shot at doubling him on average, as well as the Eir Ch9 Sniper.

Great knight makes up for the movement problem bringing it to six, which is where most units are anyway.

that's why I said Pile on his pre-promotion mobility problems, though Great Knight mobility is still nothing special (6 mov like most foot units, but also harsh terrain penalties)

His str makes up for some of the damage loss for not doubling. He can still double, its not like he will never double.

That'd only be the case if his Atk was twice as high as everyone else's, but it's not, and he's not strong enough to OHKO anything. Yes, he can double...unpromoted Knights, maybe Generals? Perhaps Renevants and shit...impressive shit Gilliam, but everyone doubles those, and nobody has trouble with them whatsoever.

He shouldnt be top tier but just moved up a tier or at least a few spaces.

Then stop throwing general terms around and argue why he's better than the few specific people above him.

Abuse- too much babying and such.

not just a few levels in between each chapter to bring them up to par

I did not mention stat booster again did I?

Consider this a tier list where the tower is completely insignificant then. It simply doesn't count, since it's not during the main quest, and it's a form of abuse (however little you do it). Even if the trainees get some of it, so do others, and they have an easier time in it, so it helps them more. And no, there's no rule that your units have to be brought to equal levels or anything like that. You don't get some kind of bonus for evenly leveling up everyone.

[Robert]

1. Hard mode maybe but brigands? with axes? yea sure.

THERE ARE NO NOMADS or common ranger enemies. one sniper? pah.

2. Sorry, I misread that one. Exactly, it brings him up to par with other units.

the terrain effects the other mounted units though not as much.

3. Some, not all. You are exagerating a bit, with the heavy weapons enemies hold, and the stats of some enemies, he gets more doubles than that. Since he is a general, the point is to hold of door ways, if he kills of each enemy that attacks him, then they will eventually kill him. That is the function of a general. if another unit, say gerik, who easily kills each unit that attacks him and clearing space for them and you know from there.

4. He got moved up. You keep responding. Every one above him is better then him in theory.

5. ... ok I didnt see that in the topic. But in the actual game that is certainly not the case.

[Clonez]

Gilliam averages 15.5 SPD as a Great Knight at 20/20

He's doubling the easy enemies like unpromoted ones sure, but what about stuff like Heroes, SMs, Dogs, and Rangers? They throw those at you in the endgame pretty often. And since he can't double he's barely denting stuff like Ogres, Wyverns, those flying demon things.

At the earlygame, Brigands can have about 7 SPD. They're plenty, plus they have axes which means Gilliam sucks earlygame too.

Wow way to fail Gilliam.

Edited January 3, 2009 by Clonez

[Robert]

You cannot double gilliam with 7 spd. I highly doubt each and everyone has 7 AS Somehow, he manages.

Again, you are exagerating, most monsters have terrible stats.

He got moved up to a deserved place so I happy.

[Tino]

Actually, Gilliam has 3 AS and thus can be doubled.

Monsters don't have terrible stats.

[Erk]

My 2nd tier list! I'm on a roll now!

(Eph)=Ephraim's route

(Eir)= Eirika's Route

Epic

Ephraim (Eph)

Franz

Seth

Moulder

Eirika (Eir)

Artur

Lute

Duessel (Eph)

I concur with your assessment.

Edited January 3, 2009 by Erk23

[Mekkah]

Some random brainstorming on early promotion Neimi:

Neimi starts at 1/0, and she can only get action on player phase, and she sucks at combat, though she has opportunities to snipe pretty often due to her 2-range.

In Ch3, I suppose she can get one kill, and then two or three free shots, so probably about half a level.

In Ch4, there's actually quite a few enemies, and only Franz/Seth/Garcia one-round most of them. I think 120 EXP for her is quite reasonable, putting her almost at 3/0.

In Ch5, she can only really hurt Soldiers, and those get one-rounded by some people, or nearly so. Still, I think she can get about a level here, so somewhere between 4/0 and 5/0.

In Ch6, her offense fails more than ever on Cavs, and it's Fog of War, limiting her flexibility. Again, about a level seems reasonable, so 6/0, methinks.

Ch7, enemies are complete set-up-and-kill bait due to very few of them rushing, and she has a novelty ballista up north to shoot random stuff with. Up to 7/0.

Ch8 has lots of walls and quite a few ranged dudes, so 8/0 here seems fair.

Then both route's Ch9 are enormous with lots of enemies and reinforcements, and Ephraim's version is extremely chokepoint heavy. I think I can see her rounding out to 10/0 here, and use the Orion's Bolt at the start of next chapter. So how would she be doing?

Taking two random awesome units to compare her to:

10/1 Neimi with B Colm:

Iron Bow: 18.1 atk, 12.4 AS, 122.0 hit, 15.5 crit - - 38.3 avo, 24.0 hp, 8.3 def, 9.1 res, 8.5 critavo

15/0 Franz with C Seth:

Iron Lance: 20.6 atk, 14.0 AS, 111.8 hit, 7.0 crit - - 37.6 avo, 31.2 hp, 10.5 def, 4.8 res, 9.6 critavo

15/0 Lute with C Arthur:

Fire: 20.1 atk, 12.3 AS, 114.3 hit, 4.8 crit - - 43.9 avo, 23.3 hp, 6.1 def, 11.6 res, 19.3 critavo

She's quite soundly losing offense to both, and Franz crushes her defensively...she's about as good defensively as Lute. Granted, she's not _that_ much worse in most aspects...though Lute and Franz have slightly higher EXP gains, and will soon promote and start crushing Neimi again. And I was being generous with supports, too...

Yeah, screw Neimi.

[Robert]

Actually, Gilliam has 3 AS and thus can be doubled.

Monsters don't have terrible stats.

Anyone can be doubed, whether you have 3 or 26 AS. (or if there is a divine weapon boost or something.)

Yes they do, why don't you check the game, they certainly don't have 7 AS.

Unless you are talking about the later part of the game, not the first encounter.

[Mekkah]

I just checked my game, and Ch2 Brigands have anywhere between 5 and 7 Spd.

[Robert]

Actually, Gilliam has 3 AS and thus can be doubled.

Monsters don't have terrible stats.

AS? they wield heavy axes.

[Tino]

Yes, Iron Axes, which don't weigh down those Brigands. And as Mekkah said, Brigands defenitely have Spd values ranging from 5 to 7.

[Robert]

You're both probably right, but I still don't remember brigand with that much speed in the early chapters.

edit: I checked- on chapter 2- they all have 5 spd. (including boss)

This is normal mode.

Edited January 4, 2009 by MaraeSceptre

[Don Draper]

Tino and Mekkah are discussing Hard Mode.

[Robert]

I know, this topics getting old.

[Clonez]

Discussing FE8 NM is the lulz.

[Robert]

I doubt HM brigand are much different on chapter 2.

I really am losing interest on this conversation, Gilliam got moved up to a better deserved spot, unless you disagree, then say so.

Edited January 4, 2009 by MaraeSceptre

[_____]

I doubt HM brigand are much different on chapter 2.

I really am losing interest on this conversation, Gilliam got moved up to a better deserved spot, unless you disagree, then say so.

They reach 7, which is enough to double Gilliam.

Where did he get moved, exactly?