Tears of the Kingdom First Impressions

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Thank you.

Incidentally, I've completed almost all the main story quests: I have recruited all the sages and fought the disc-one boss at Hyrule Castle, retrieved the Master Sword and obtained all the Dragon's Tears, so now the game is basically telling me, "You're ready to fight Ganondorf, but you need to explore the Depths more before you can", and I have found 132 of the 152 shrines in the game, so I'm mainly going to be a mix of exploring the Depths and finding the last 20 shrines that I've missed. I have about as many old map treasure locations on my map of the Depths as I have missed shrines.

(Spoilers below for anyone who hasn't fought the boss of Hyrule Castle or obtained all the Dragon's Tears):

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I really, really wanted Zelda to adventure alongside Link in this game; not only because Spirit Tracks is my favourite Zelda game, but also because Breath of the Wild ended on Link and Zelda reuniting after 100 years and setting out together, and I really did not want the game to end on a "Sike! Now they're separated again and you'll have to wait for the very end of the game before they reunite again!" I figured it would've especially been bizarre as Spirit Tracks outright mocked the "Link, you must find Zelda" plotline, only for every Zelda game since, with the one exception of Tri Force Heroes, to still do exactly that plotline completely unironically. So, yeah; I am disappointed that the game once again did that plotline.

However, after seeing all the Zelda memories and going through the first half of the game where Phantom Ganon pretends to be Zelda, I will say that I do really like this game's version of the "Link, you must find Zelda" plotline and I understand why they went with it for this game.

The reveal that Phantom Ganon has been impersonating Zelda since the Upheaval extremely easy to predict and I called it very early into the game, but that does nothing to diminish how effective it is. The fake Zelda is immensely creepy and scary; I found the part where Phantom Ganon uses its illusion powers to restore Hyrule Castle's throne room to play on Link's memories particularly unsettling. This is without a doubt the best version of Phantom Ganon; it helps that this version is an actual character and not just a mindless being that exists solely for a boss fight.

Similarly, I liked Zelda meeting Rauru and Sonia and her time in the past being a closed time loop. I liked the reveal that Zelda is the Dragon of Light and that she willingly sacrificed who she is in order to prepare the Master Sword for defeating Ganondorf. It's a bit similar to Zelda sealing herself in crystal in Skyward Sword, but far better because it's something she chooses entirely on her own.

 

All that said, I think the story still could've worked, with Phantom Ganon impersonating Zelda and with the reveal that Zelda became the Light Dragon, while still having Zelda adventure alongside Link for the whole game. Picture this: after completing the four shrines and the Temple of Time, a small Light Dragon appears before Link and opens the way to Hyrule below. This dragon cannot speak, and it is clear that all it knows is that it must help Link. So, it accompanies Link throughout the game much like the sages do. The game still has the geoglyphs and still has Phantom Ganon impersonate Zelda, but now the reveal that Zelda is the Light Dragon comes with the reveal that Zelda has been with the player the whole time.

Of course, obtaining the Master Sword would have to be changed, and I honestly don't if this would've been better or worse overall compared to what we have now. Any thoughts on this idea?

 

Spoiler

I have no express desire to see Zelda playable in this game as I still feel she should have been an old woman after Breath of the Wild. So I imagine the plot with an aged Zelda in her place, and honestly aside from the fellating of Link, I think it would all work just as well.

I feel that one memory ruined the Phantom Zelda twist where she just shows up to no effect at all. Without it, the Zelda apparition showing up and doing slightly shady things, couples with discovering where Zelda really is would facilitate the twist enough as is. That one memory where she shows up basically just plants a giant flag on it. I haven't even defeated the fourth boss yet (I'm at it but procrastinating) yet I've also called the twist in advance.

I like the idea of the light dragon twist, but I feel it was kind of awkward to just invent a fourth dragon. I would have preferred if Zelda had just been Naydra, the dragon of Wisdom. Then it would give retroactive context to Breath of the Wild where Naydra actually is treated differently to the other two dragons, what with you needing to rescue it first. I'd find it cool if you could go back to Breath of the Wild look at Naydra and say "hey that's Zelda and he Master Sword is in her head waiting for the next game". It would be a twist hiding in plain sight, unlike the light dragon who just shows out of nowhere. Like correct me if in wrong but the light dragon isn't anywhere in Hyrule until you get all the memories, right? Even though logically she should have been roaming Hyrule the entire time.

 

 

[vanguard333]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

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I have no express desire to see Zelda playable in this game as I still feel she should have been an old woman after Breath of the Wild. So I imagine the plot with an aged Zelda in her place, and honestly aside from the fellating of Link, I think it would all work just as well.

I feel that one memory ruined the Phantom Zelda twist where she just shows up to no effect at all. Without it, the Zelda apparition showing up and doing slightly shady things, couples with discovering where Zelda really is would facilitate the twist enough as is. That one memory where she shows up basically just plants a giant flag on it. I haven't even defeated the fourth boss yet (I'm at it but procrastinating) yet I've also called the twist in advance.

I like the idea of the light dragon twist, but I feel it was kind of awkward to just invent a fourth dragon. I would have preferred if Zelda had just been Naydra, the dragon of Wisdom. Then it would give retroactive context to Breath of the Wild where Naydra actually is treated differently to the other two dragons, what with you needing to rescue it first. I'd find it cool if you could go back to Breath of the Wild look at Naydra and say "hey that's Zelda and he Master Sword is in her head waiting for the next game". It would be a twist hiding in plain sight, unlike the light dragon who just shows out of nowhere. Like correct me if in wrong but the light dragon isn't anywhere in Hyrule until you get all the memories, right? Even though logically she should have been roaming Hyrule the entire time.

 

 

Spoiler

Please forgive me for responding to your points in reverse-order:

The Light Dragon is roaming Hyrule the whole time; you can find her long before you collect all the memories. I know this because I obtained the Master Sword before finding all the memories. How it works is that, after Link completes the tutorial area and the Light Dragon opens the way to Hyrule below, the Light Dragon then continuously follows a set path around almost all of Hyrule. Before completing the memories and obtaining the Master Sword, the Light Dragon follows that path at a very high altitude in the sky; by no means unreachably high, but high enough to make the Light Dragon difficult to notice. After doing those two things, she drops in altitude considerably, making it much easier to find and reach the Light Dragon afterward.

I agree that that memory made the twist really obvious. However, if I remember correctly, Phantom Ganon did important things in that memory; first, Phantom Ganon was there to seem to be the assassination plot, only to actually be the bait to take their eyes off of Ganondorf. Ganondorf knew they were onto him, so he used Phantom Ganon as an obvious trap to make them fall for the real scheme. Second, it's Phantom Ganon that has the illusion abilities, so I'm pretty sure that it was Phantom Ganon that hid Ganondorf from sight using that ability, but I could easily be wrong and Ganondorf could've just been hiding behind a piece of wall or something.

I see your point, though I personally didn't mind that Zelda didn't age during the 100 years of Breath of the Wild. I will just point out that "fellating" might not be the best choice of words to use in regards to Zelda's behaviour regarding Link, since Zelda's house in Hateno Village unambiguously had Link and Zelda living in the house together while also unambiguously only having one bed...

 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

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Please forgive me for responding to your points in reverse-order:

The Light Dragon is roaming Hyrule the whole time; you can find her long before you collect all the memories. I know this because I obtained the Master Sword before finding all the memories. How it works is that, after Link completes the tutorial area and the Light Dragon opens the way to Hyrule below, the Light Dragon then continuously follows a set path around almost all of Hyrule. Before completing the memories and obtaining the Master Sword, the Light Dragon follows that path at a very high altitude in the sky; by no means unreachably high, but high enough to make the Light Dragon difficult to notice. After doing those two things, she drops in altitude considerably, making it much easier to find and reach the Light Dragon afterward.

I agree that that memory made the twist really obvious. However, if I remember correctly, Phantom Ganon did important things in that memory; first, Phantom Ganon was there to seem to be the assassination plot, only to actually be the bait to take their eyes off of Ganondorf. Ganondorf knew they were onto him, so he used Phantom Ganon as an obvious trap to make them fall for the real scheme. Second, it's Phantom Ganon that has the illusion abilities, so I'm pretty sure that it was Phantom Ganon that hid Ganondorf from sight using that ability, but I could easily be wrong and Ganondorf could've just been hiding behind a piece of wall or something.

I see your point, though I personally didn't mind that Zelda didn't age during the 100 years of Breath of the Wild. I will just point out that "fellating" might not be the best choice of words to use in regards to Zelda's behaviour regarding Link, since Zelda's house in Hateno Village unambiguously had Link and Zelda living in the house together while also unambiguously only having one bed...

 

Spoiler

Ah yes, I recall now that the Deku Tree mentions that the Master Sword is moving and gives you a quest that lets you track it. Still, that just makes me think my Naydra idea is even more warrented, as a fourth dragon flying high in the sky is a point of interest, something players would investigate and get the Master Sword out of sequence, if it was one of the dragons from Breath of the Wild then it's just "Oh Naydra is flying quite high".

 

Regarding the Phantom Ganon memory, I don't think any of that is really required. The point of that scene is that Ganondorf kills the queen. The how of it isn't really important. In fact you probably could have done away with that scene entirely as the next memory which takes place immediately afterwards establishes all the same information.

 

[Jotari]

Speaking of the sages being annoying and no playable Zelda, I'm kind of surprised there's no multiplayer at all in this game. Because the sages look like they are fully functioning player characters similar to Link. I just saw Yunobo get eaten by a Like Like. I wouldn't be surprised if they had animations for openings chests and the like. It seems like the only thing they can't do is climb. It would be difficult to implement (fun) playable co-op in the main campaign with how much hangliding and travelling you do, but some kind of side mode where you're just fighting enemies in an enclosed room that let's you play with the sages in co-op doesn't seem like it would be difficult in the slightest with how much work they've already done on them.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Jotari

[vanguard333]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

Speaking of the sages being annoying and no playable Zelda, I'm kind of surprised there's no multiplayer at all in this game. Because the sages look like they are fully functioning player characters similar to Link. I just saw Yunobo get eaten by a Like Like. I wouldn't be surprised if they had animations for openings chests and the like. It seems like the only thing they can't do is fly. It would be difficult to implement (fun) playable co-op in the main campaign with how much hangliding and travelling you do, but some kind of side mode where you're just fighting enemies in an enclosed room that let's you play with the sages in co-op doesn't seem like it would be difficult in the slightest with how much work they've already done on them.

I imagine the problem with trying to make an open world co-op game is that you need to make sure the players stick together and that they're all doing the same quest. I imagine that this is one reason that every multiplayer Zelda game (Four Swords, Four Swords Adventure and Tri Force Heroes) were mission-based and didn't have proper overworlds. Incidentally, I actually really enjoyed playing Four Swords Adventure single-player and I would've liked to see a single-player game with a proper overworld and dungeons use the four Links mechanic that that game used.

A co-op side mode for Tears of the Kingdom that's mission-based would be cool. That could work.

[Etrurian emperor]

Yunobu actually has a very interesting situation compared to the other new champions when we find him. Its just a shame this situation lasts about two minutes before the status quo returns. 

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Yunobu actually has a very interesting situation compared to the other new champions when we find him. Its just a shame this situation lasts about two minutes before the status quo returns. 

Strong agree. I actually wouldn't have minded at all if they broke formula and just made him the boss, with you only getting to try his power at all after beating the dungeon.

Incidentally, the order I did the dungeons was Rito-Gerudo-Zora-Goron, and the rings link obtained appeared on his hand starting on the right and moving left to the thumb, skipping the middle finger. I'm wondering if that ordered sequence is because they always appear that way based on who you get first or if I did the intended order. I feel like it's the latter as not only would it be needless to have the rings be on different fingers depending on when you get them, but the order in which I did them gradually unveils the shady doings of Phantom Zelda.

7 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I imagine the problem with trying to make an open world co-op game is that you need to make sure the players stick together and that they're all doing the same quest. I imagine that this is one reason that every multiplayer Zelda game (Four Swords, Four Swords Adventure and Tri Force Heroes) were mission-based and didn't have proper overworlds. Incidentally, I actually really enjoyed playing Four Swords Adventure single-player and I would've liked to see a single-player game with a proper overworld and dungeons use the four Links mechanic that that game used.

A co-op side mode for Tears of the Kingdom that's mission-based would be cool. That could work.

A mission mode or enemy gauntlet could also be a way to get playable Zelda. We already have the three major weapon types plus bows represented with the sages, but Zelda could use a magical rod for a weapon, or a boomerang, both of which are mechanically the same as one handed weapons but with their own properties.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Jotari

[vanguard333]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

Incidentally, the order I did the dungeons was Rito-Gerudo-Zora-Goron, and the rings link obtained appeared on his hand starting on the right and moving left to the thumb, skipping the middle finger. I'm wondering if that ordered sequence is because they always appear that way based on who you get first or if I did the intended order. I feel like it's the latter as not only would it be needless to have the rings be on different fingers depending on when you get them, but the order in which I did them gradually unveils the shady doings of Phantom Zelda.

A mission mode or enemy gauntlet could also be a way to get playable Zelda. We already have the three major weapon types plus bows represented with the sages, but Zelda could use a magical rod for a weapon, or a boomerang, both of which are mechanically the same as one handed weapons but with their own properties.

Funny; the order I did the dungeons was Rito-Goron-Zora-Gerudo. I thought it would make sense to save the Gerudo for last since I incorrectly thought the fact that Ganondorf was a Gerudo would factor into that part of the storyline, and, after I completed the Rito storyline, I saw some NPCs in Lookout Landing talk about the Gorons and I thought the game was suggesting I complete the Goron dungeon next. Unfortunately, I can't remember which fingers the rings appeared in.

That would be neat. Another option would be

Spoiler

For Zelda's Light Dragon form to somehow be playable, but I suspect that that would be very difficult to implement due to its sheer size.

Unfortunately, the precedent is that any hope for mission-based multiplayer will be in the form of Nintendo making a Warriors spinoff; this time, Nintendo will claim that it takes place during the Imprisoning War, but it'll actually be about how a Zonai-built celery stick travels back in time and prevents the Imprisoning War from ever happening.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Funny; the order I did the dungeons was Rito-Goron-Zora-Gerudo. I thought it would make sense to save the Gerudo for last since I incorrectly thought the fact that Ganondorf was a Gerudo would factor into that part of the storyline, and, after I completed the Rito storyline, I saw some NPCs in Lookout Landing talk about the Gorons and I thought the game was suggesting I complete the Goron dungeon next. Unfortunately, I can't remember which fingers the rings appeared in.

That would be neat. Another option would be

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For Zelda's Light Dragon form to somehow be playable, but I suspect that that would be very difficult to implement due to its sheer size.

Unfortunately, the precedent is that any hope for mission-based multiplayer will be in the form of Nintendo making a Warriors spinoff; this time, Nintendo will claim that it takes place during the Imprisoning War, but it'll actually be about how a Zonai-built celery stick travels back in time and prevents the Imprisoning War from ever happening.

Well I'm not really hankering for a multiplayer mode. Tears of the Kingdom is a fine experience as a single player game. It's just kind of funny how much effort they've put into the sages to not have something like that. They feel a lot more realized as a player character than the likes of Medli and Makar, who actually are playable characters! Alas, gone are the days were a multiplayer mode was thrown into a game because it could be done. Modern business practices aren't soley to blame. The rise of multiplayer focused games themselves killed the casual multiplayer mode, as rather than praising a game for having multiplayer at all, games started getting critisized for having bad or unbalanced multiplayers.

[vanguard333]

18 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well I'm not really hankering for a multiplayer mode. Tears of the Kingdom is a fine experience as a single player game. It's just kind of funny how much effort they've put into the sages to not have something like that. They feel a lot more realized as a player character than the likes of Medli and Makar, who actually are playable characters! Alas, gone are the days were a multiplayer mode was thrown into a game because it could be done. Modern business practices aren't soley to blame. The rise of multiplayer focused games themselves killed the casual multiplayer mode, as rather than praising a game for having multiplayer at all, games started getting criticized for having bad or unbalanced multiplayers.

I'm not either, especially since I can't remember any single-player Zelda game that came with a multiplayer mode.

I imagine that part of the death of optional multiplayer also has to do with the rise of online multiplayer.

 

On 6/15/2023 at 3:45 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Yunobu actually has a very interesting situation compared to the other new champions when we find him. Its just a shame this situation lasts about two minutes before the status quo returns. 

Funny enough, I didn't recognize Yunobo initially when I did the Goron quest (I had forgotten his name in the time since I last played Breath of the Wild since I don't remember names very well), so when his brainwashed self appeared, my first thought was that some brand new Goron character was working for Ganondorf out of greed. Then I saw how NPCs talked about him, realized that was Yunobo, and only then immediately realized that he had to be brainwashed.

For me, what made the Goron regional phenomenon interesting was not Yunobo's situation, but the distinct phenomenon that was plaguing the Gorons. I've seen some people describe it as the comparatively more lighthearted and comical regional phenomenon, but I think it's really the opposite; if anything, it's the scariest of the regional phenomena; it's just a lot more subtle about it. There's a certain element of, for lack of a better word, reality to it: tricking a community into taking a highly addictive substance is something a number of empires and government agencies in our actual history have done, and those historical examples came to mind immediately when I saw what was happening to the Gorons.

 

EDIT: I just have six shrines left to find before I find all 152 shrines in the game. I must say, the Depths are very helpful for figuring out the location of the last remaining shrines thanks to the lightroots in the depths corresponding to shrines on the surface. I don't think I would've found all 120 shrines in Breath of the Wild in a reasonable amount of time if I hadn't bought the guidebook for Breath of the Wild, but with Tears of the Kingdom, I'm confident that I can find all the shrines without a guide.

Edited June 17, 2023 by vanguard333

[Etrurian emperor]

The Goron situation goes from funny to dark when you realize its one big drug addiction reference. And then it goes back to being funny again when you notice the implication that

Spoiler

They've probably been eating Ghoma's poop all this time. 

 

[vanguard333]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The Goron situation goes from funny to dark when you realize its one big drug addiction reference. And then it goes back to being funny again when you notice the implication that

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They've probably been eating Ghoma's poop all this time. 

 

Not just one big drug addiction reference; it's very similar to some moments in human history when someone deceived a community into taking something addictive. We have a very recent example of a corporation knowing a substance was highly addictive but pretending it wasn't so they could reap a bigger profit; the Goron situation wasn't done with a profit motive; instead a conquest/sabotage motive, but it's still very comparable.

Spoiler

That part that their eating the rocks that Marbled Gohma produces is indeed a bit funny.

 

By the way, I made a joke about Nintendo having Koei Tecmo create another Warriors spinoff with misleading marketing, but what do you think are the odds of them making a Warriors spinoff for Tears of the Kingdom?

[Etrurian emperor]

There's this memory scene with Ganondorf, Rauru and a ton of Muldoga's. I think that be a perfect fit for a warriors stage. Koume and Kotaku also appear as minor background characters so that's an era that could be expended upon in a Warriors game. Maybe have some sort of time mechanic where battles waged in the past version of Hyrule can impact battles in the future of Hyrule. 

[vanguard333]

59 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

There's this memory scene with Ganondorf, Rauru and a ton of Muldogas. I think that be a perfect fit for a warriors stage. Koume and Kotaku also appear as minor background characters so that's an era that could be expended upon in a Warriors game. Maybe have some sort of time mechanic where battles waged in the past version of Hyrule can impact battles in the future of Hyrule. 

Yeah, I could definitely see a Warriors game set before and during the Imprisoning War. I'm not sure about a time mechanic, since the memories clearly establish that Zelda's travel to the past is a closed time loop: not of what she did in the past changed anything in the present because the present had already accounted for her presence in the past.

Incidentally, I'm glad that the closed time loop is so important to Tears of the Kingdom's story, as it keeps Nintendo and Koei Tecmo from creating a Zonai Construct equivalent of Terrako going back in time and changing events.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

 Koume and Kotaku also appear as minor background characters so that's an era that could be expended upon in a Warriors game. 

They do? Oh wow I need to go back and check that. I love Koume and Kotake.

[Etrurian emperor]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

They do? Oh wow I need to go back and check that. I love Koume and Kotake.

Sadly its just a one second cameo and they're not the oldies we know and love. In the memory scene with Ganon and Rauru you have two green skinned(non elderly) Gerudo in the background who's headbands say their names. Also apparently the markings on the gloom weapons translate to their names. 

[Etrurian emperor]

3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Yeah, I could definitely see a Warriors game set before and during the Imprisoning War. I'm not sure about a time mechanic, since the memories clearly establish that Zelda's travel to the past is a closed time loop: not of what she did in the past changed anything in the present because the present had already accounted for her presence in the past.

Incidentally, I'm glad that the closed time loop is so important to Tears of the Kingdom's story, as it keeps Nintendo and Koei Tecmo from creating a Zonai Construct equivalent of Terrako going back in time and changing events.

I'm not sure the time loop is closed. Maybe all those shrines are there precisely because Rauru knew Link would have to finish the job. The original timeline being him sealing ganon without preparations for what to do next, and the new one him doing so with more info from Zelda and setting up the shrines. 

[Zanarkin]

40 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm not sure the time loop is closed. Maybe all those shrines are there precisely because Rauru knew Link would have to finish the job. The original timeline being him sealing ganon without preparations for what to do next, and the new one him doing so with more info from Zelda and setting up the shrines. 

Don't click if you don;t have all memories but...

I think the shrines have been there for a while before Zelda went to the past. You can see one up on a cliff in one of the memories. Also Ganondorf recognizes Zelda and figures out Link's name at the beginning of the game. In the last memory with Rauru, it becomes clear why Ganondorf knows Link because Rauru informed ganondorf that there would be a hero named link with a special sword that would take him down. This is only possible if the loop has been always established in the timeline

[vanguard333]

4 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm not sure the time loop is closed. Maybe all those shrines are there precisely because Rauru knew Link would have to finish the job. The original timeline being him sealing ganon without preparations for what to do next, and the new one him doing so with more info from Zelda and setting up the shrines. 

Remember what Ganondorf says when the seal is undone? Ganondorf recognizes Zelda immediately, and, even before Zelda goes back in time, he criticizes how quickly Link was defeated by saying, among other things, "Rauru placed his faith in you". I can't say much more without spoilers, so I'll just say that Rauru didn't learn about Link from any prophecies or anything like that; he learned about Link from Zelda.

 

3 hours ago, Zanarkin said:

Don't click if you don't have all memories but...

Exactly. Thanks. 

Of course, I say that a closed time loop being core to the plot would make it impossible for Nintendo to pull another Age of Calamity, but, the more I think about it, the more I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled another Age of Calamity anyway. Nintendo hasn't exactly been the best at being consistent with how time travel works even within one specific game:

Ocarina of Time had both closed time loops and altering events, with the Song of Storms being an example of a closed time loop and the magic beans being an example of altering events in the past to affect the future. Skyward Sword was just as inconsistent, and that time with plot events: the crystal that encases Zelda is an example of a closed time loop, while the Life Tree sapling is an example of Link changing the present by altering the past. And then there's Link somehow killing Demise in the past without changing the present, and that's best left not thinking about too much.

What do you think? If Nintendo makes a Warriors spinoff for Tears of the Kingdom, do you think they'll do what Age of Calamity did again?

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

 And then there's Link somehow killing Demise in the past without changing the present, and that's best left not thinking about too much.

Link actually doesn't kill Demise in the past. Despite Phi saying he was "eradicated" she also immediately says that his residual consciousness has been sealed in the Master Sword, and indeed we see black smoke enter it. I believe the prevailing theory is that the Master Sword was in the sealing spike of The Imprisoned's head, as the Imprisoned doesn't have the spike when we see it in the past. Therefore Demise's actual final destruction is when Link uses the Triforce to eliminate him for good.

[vanguard333]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

Link actually doesn't kill Demise in the past. Despite Phi saying he was "eradicated" she also immediately says that his residual consciousness has been sealed in the Master Sword, and indeed we see black smoke enter it. I believe the prevailing theory is that the Master Sword was in the sealing spike of The Imprisoned's head, as the Imprisoned doesn't have the spike when we see it in the past. Therefore Demise's actual final destruction is when Link uses the Triforce to eliminate him for good.

I see. Thanks.

In that case, that would be another example of a closed time loop in a game that also has Link outright change the past to affect the present (the Life Tree sapling).

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I see. Thanks.

In that case, that would be another example of a closed time loop in a game that also has Link outright change the past to affect the present (the Life Tree sapling).

Oracle of Ages also pulls the same issue. I can't actually remember it's example of a closed loop as my encyclopedic knowledge (which at one point was legendary) has faded over time, but I definitely remember commenting on contradictory mechanics within the same method of time travel.

[Etrurian emperor]

Is it me or are bosses a bit weirdly designed in this game? Bosses often do damage as if this is an older Zelda game while the current style of Zelda has far more unforgiving combat. Master Kohga did about a quarter of a heart worth of damage in the early game, while a black bokoblin can two shot you at that stage. Now master Kohga is of course a loser but this is a pattern that exist to a lesser extend in other bosses too. Their attacks do like....four hearts worth of damage? Meanwhile normal enemies tear through your health much faster than that, let alone lynels who can demolish you in ways Coldaga or Mudcorock can only dream of. 

[vanguard333]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

Oracle of Ages also pulls the same issue. I can't actually remember it's example of a closed loop as my encyclopedic knowledge (which at one point was legendary) has faded over time, but I definitely remember commenting on contradictory mechanics within the same method of time travel.

I wouldn't know; I've only played Oracle of Seasons. If that is the case, then, with Tears of the Kingdom and Majora's Mask are the only two Zelda games with internally consistent time travel mechanics.

[Etrurian emperor]

One thing that's a bit disappointing is that the filler regions from BOTW mostly remain filler regions rather than being filled with new towns, quests and dungeons. For example there's very little point in going to the Hebra ice region or the Gerudo Highlands.