How should Ike use Urvan in Smash Bros.?

[Jotari]

So I made a thread about Marth and the Binding Shield in Smash Bros., and it kind of felt like it begged the creation of this thread. Ike's association with Urvan is a bit different to Math, in that it's not actually associated with him at all in his own games. It's his father's. And while you get it in Radiant Dawn there isn't any insistence on Ike using it, in fact you have to actively out work into building his Axe Rank to make him capable of it. But, come on, it's his dad's axe, were totally putting that work in. And because it's not a sword, it's become a useful item for Ike to have in other games like Heroes and Engage. So while it's not exactly his weapon, an association is there.

With that out of the way, assuming it were to be incorporated into Ike's moveset, a question would remain as to how best to do it. The easiest mechanically would be to just copy Byleth's use of Amyr, either as the down smash or down special (or both).

Another option could be to give Ike a weapon equip mechanic, wherein he can choose between Ragnell, Urvan and another weapon like Shulk's arts, giving different properties to his normal attacks. The way he uses Ragnell already doesn't seem like it would be that different from an axe.

You could also resort to just having it in the final smash too. Though I'm not super into that as I see his final smash as a reference to his final attack against Ashera.

What about you? Would you like to see Ike with Urvan in Smash and if so, how should he use it?

[Dark Holy Elf]

I always felt like RD strongly discouraged me from having Ike use Urvan, in fact I've never done it.

• Ike already has a SS ranked weapon locked to him. There are only so many SS rank weapons to go around, I'm not giving two of them to one person unless I'm doing a weird challenge or theme run.
• Related to the above, each unit can only bless one weapon at the start of E-3. Ike must bless Ragnell. Are we proposing I don't bless Urvan? Or that someone else blesses it and then hands it to him, and then that person has no weapon to fight Ashera with? Both suggestions are unsastisfying.
• Ike has two forced contributions in endgame: he must duel Zelgius and he must deal the final blow to Ashera. For the first fight, the best weapon choice is the Hammer. For the second, he is, once again, forced to use Ragnell.
• As mentioned, you have to grind Ike's weapon rank to use Urvan. This isn't too hard if you prioritize it, I suppose, but why do it? The entire time Ike is a Vanguard, he has access to Ragnell, which rules.
• Finally, there are many, many good axe-users in RD. I'm taking at least one to endgame. They're getting Urvan. The most narratively sensible choice is probably Titania; Geril's long-time deputy taking up his axe is neat. Though in terms of gameplay there are many others to consider.

Now to be clear, this doesn't meant I'd necessarily oppose seeing Ike with Urvan in Smash. Byleth got three weapons they're unlikely to use in their home game, after all, and I thought that was neat. But nor am I really clamouring for it either. Part of the issue here is that Ike in Smash is already the slow, powerful fighter (moreso than he is in his home game, to differentiate him from Marth). What are axes known for? Being slow and powerful. By contrast, with Byleth, it really let them use different fighting styles (e.g. the slow/strong Aymr, the ranged Failnaught).

[AnonymousSpeed]

Us, the virgin incel designerlets- "How should Ike use Urvan?"

Super Sakurai Gigachad Videogamesman- "How should Ike fight?"

He didn't decide Captain Falcon's moveset by deciding how to have him use a car.

Edited July 29, 2023 by AnonymousSpeed

[lenticular]

Either not at all or all the time.

I agree that there isn't that much to tie Ike to Urvan, so I don't really feel that it's missing from Smash. It would feel weird and arbitrary to have Ike mostly using Ragnell but pull out an axe for one move every so often. But on the other hand, I wouldn't have minded if he'd been built as an axe fighter from the start and had exclusively used Urvan instead of Ragnell. It's hardly a hot take to point out that Smash has a lot of swordfighter characters, so I could have lived with the slight flavour loss at the benefit of greater variety.

[Jotari]

33 minutes ago, lenticular said:

Either not at all or all the time.

I agree that there isn't that much to tie Ike to Urvan, so I don't really feel that it's missing from Smash. It would feel weird and arbitrary to have Ike mostly using Ragnell but pull out an axe for one move every so often. But on the other hand, I wouldn't have minded if he'd been built as an axe fighter from the start and had exclusively used Urvan instead of Ragnell. It's hardly a hot take to point out that Smash has a lot of swordfighter characters, so I could have lived with the slight flavour loss at the benefit of greater variety.

Plus, he doesn't even use the distinctive thing about Ragnell, being the sword wave projectile.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

You could switch his B-up to an "Axe Copter" maneuver, like Hector does with Armads.

While we're at it, change his B-side to an "energy blade" attack with Ragnell.

On 7/29/2023 at 10:30 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

As mentioned, you have to grind Ike's weapon rank to use Urvan. This isn't too hard if you prioritize it, I suppose, but why do it? The entire time Ike is a Vanguard, he has access to Ragnell, which rules.

I had to double-check to see if Vanguard even could reach SS Axes! It seems more like an "easter egg", letting him use his father's axe, more than anything else. Very few classes can reach SS in multiple areas, after all.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

You could switch his B-up to an "Axe Copter" maneuver, like Hector does with Armads.

While we're at it, change his B-side to an "energy blade" attack with Ragnell.

Not sure how serious you are, but I don't see them getting rid of Aether.

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I had to double-check to see if Vanguard even could reach SS Axes! It seems more like an "easter egg", letting him use his father's axe, more than anything else. Very few classes can reach SS in multiple areas, after all.

Both Ike and Micaiah can reach two SS Ranks. So I'd say it's less an Easter egg and more fanservice paired with lord favouritism.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Not sure how serious you are, but I don't see them getting rid of Aether.

Well, he would still have "Great Aether" as his Final Smash. But if we want to keep it, perhaps Aether could become his Neutral-B? I'd also love it if Aether restored some HP (that is, lowered his percentage) if it hit an opponent on the upswing, but that may be asking for a lot.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Both Ike and Micaiah can reach two SS Ranks. So I'd say it's less an Easter egg and more fanservice paired with lord favouritism.

Micaiah can, but so can the Saint class. This could be seen as a callback to the Bishop class in the previous game, which shared a Staff and Light rank. Ergo, by reaching S-rank Staves, they get S-rank Light by default. Sephiran and the Black Knight get multiple S-ranks as well, but this can be attributed to them being men of exceptional abilities.

As for the "easter egg" comment, I was going for the notion of "it's not something most players will do, but it's technically achievable". Kind of like raising Mist to raise Alondite - the sword that slew her father, and the partner to Ragnell. It can be that, while also being fanservice and/or Lord favoritism.