I make for myself a challenger to play all Fire Emblem games one by one.

[FabioManoel1977]

Sorry bad english

 

All Fire Emblem games are Super Sad and Tragic like Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War ?

I make for myself a challenger to play all Fire Emblem games one by one, I finished FE1, FE2 and FE3, You can follow my progress on my retroachievements page: https://retroachievements.org/user/FabioManoel1977

 

and now I am playing FF4 but I finished Chapter 5 and then happened it

 

You are warned, terrible spoilers in the box bellow

 

Spoiler

Everybody died !  Sigurd and all his friends died in the most stupid way that I never imagined, and worse he see his wife already married with other man. The supreme NTR ! I fight so much, I make so much effort playing it, I take care of all allies to be alive, tried to build relationships, romance, marriages, and them all died.

 

I totally not fell like to keep playing, but, I am long almost a whole year playing Fire Emblem Games , the first 3 games not have this kind of so exaggerated tragedy,a nd I HATE to gave up of a challenger, I really wanted to try to play each Fire Emblem game, the gameplay id fun, but, If is every game like this, I am forced to see a character that I love dying, I never wants to play another Fire Emblem game again.

All others Fire Emblem games are like this ?

I do not care If others  sub-characters dies, but, at least the protagonist, the hero, our avatar inside the game NEED to get a happy end, I cannot imagine any reason to play a game series where every protagonist dies at the end. What a waste of time, a waste of effort training every character until Level 30, seeing each character talking abvout love and futrure plans of marriage, kind and family, to just simple dies at the end.

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by FabioManoel1977
added info

[Shadow Mir]

That... Is only the halfway point. There is a second generation in Holy War. The second generation has Seliph - Sigurd's son - take up the fight in his deceased father's stead. And for that matter, the children of most of the first generation characters are playable too. Assuming you took the time to pair them up, that is.

Anyways, I'd say that whilst other FE games may not go that far, there are still some tragic events. Like Path of Radiance, for example. Ike starts the game out as a mercenary in training, but is forced to lead his father's mercenary company early in the game for reasons. The scene in question has voice acting too.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[Fire Emblem Fan]

If it makes you feel any better, not every character in Sigurd's group had that end in Genealogy of the Holy War. Edain and Finn canonically survive the entire game, and there's a possibility that Azelle, Lachesis, and Silvia are alive as their official statuses are "missing."

To answer your question, though, no, there isn't any other game in the series that has the sort of thing that happened to Sigurd happen again to your protagonist. Each game does have sad and/or emotional moments, though, just not anything like Sigurd's fate.

[FabioManoel1977]

Thank you very much for answering my question, I am feeling myself SO SAD because of Sigurd, this event truly hurt me badly. I am sad to continue playing but I am even much more sad with the thinking of to gave up playing, and I relieved that such things like Sigurd's tragedy not happens with others protagonists in others fire emblem games.

 

I will start to play again, I will revenge Sigurd death and make a happy end for his son, Thanks a lot for the encouragement, I will restart play now, I am very happy at least to know that Edain and Finn are alive. Thank you very much, I hope to meet other survivors, that group was wonderful. I will always fondly remember each one of them.

Edited August 16, 2023 by fhc

[Shadow Mir]

22 minutes ago, fhc said:

Thank you very much for answering my question, I am feeling myself SO SAD because of Sigurd, this event truly hurt me badly. I am sad to continue playing but I am even much more sad with the thinking to gave up, and I relieved that such things like Sigurd's tragedy not happens with others protagonists in others fire emblem games.

 

I will start to play again, I will revenge Sigurd death and make a happy end for his son, Thanks a lot for the encouragement, I will restart play not, I am very happy at least to know that Edain and Finn are alive. Thank you very much, I hope to meet other survivors, that group was wonderful. I will always fondly remember each one of them.

In case you're curious, Finn also shows up in the second generation; he serves under Leif (who you will also be seeing in the second generation). And in Thracia 776, which is an interquel to Holy War; Leif is the main character of that game. Ergo, it takes place during the same time frame. Specifically, its events are in the timeframe of Holy War's chapters 6 through 8. Also, Brigid survives Belhalla... but loses her memories. Silvia (the dancer), and Tailtiu also survive... but Silvia disappears, and Tailtiu dies later due to abuse from Hilda, who is one of the most despicable characters in any Fire Emblem, by the way. Erinys also survives, but she dies of illness sometime later, after which her son Ced* starts searching for Lewyn.

Quan and Ethlyn didn't die in Belhalla. Instead, they are killed in the Aed Massacre. In fact, the only confirmed dead chacters in Belhalla, aside from Sigurd himself, are Claud and Lewyn (that said, he still shows up in the second generation, but the nature of this is something I won't reveal).

 

*Gameplay wise, someone else CAN be Ced's father, but Thracia makes it canon that Erinys married Lewyn, as Ced shows up in said game using the Forseti tome, which is locked to him in said game. Coincidentally, Ced is also the name of one of the 12 Crusaders, who used the tome in question.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[FabioManoel1977]

I am glad to knows that Silvia nad Brigid survives but I am also Sad to know that Tailtiu meet a tragic end... I am sad about Erinys too... Too bad...

I am happy to knows that Thracia 776 is related to this game, For sure I will play it when I finish Genealogy of the Holy War

Thank you very much for the info

Edited August 16, 2023 by fhc

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Kudos to playing this game unspoiled. I want that for everybody.

When I played, I knew about chapter 5 from an old retrospective video series, but when Quan gets ambushed I wanted to scream. There was nothing I could do

[ARMADS!!!]

S'up Brazillian fella (é nóis hue BR) 😛, it really is impressive that you managed to play FE4 without being spoiled of chapter 5, wish I had done that too...

 

Azelle was also supposed to have canonically survived but it ended up not being mentioned in the actual game because the development was rushed and/or lack of space (I've seen several people saying that the game was supposed to have a third part that consisted of the second generation characters meeting up with all of the 1st gen characters that survived, and that among these was Azelle), as far as I've read (I went to read about it because I found it ridiculous that Arvis would kill Azelle in the battle of Valhalla)

 Turns out that there was a whole idea about how Azelle was supposed to have runned away during the battle of Valhalla and then some years later he wanted to meet up with Arvis to talk, but when he went there he was surprised by Manfroy, who turned him into stone and let him like that for some years (and then he's found by the second gen characters) or something like this. The thing is, I'm not sure if this was something that was actually supposed to have happened on the game but didn't due to lack of time/space, or if it was simply an idea that Kaga had (he posted lots of ideas and details about backstories, lore and hypothetic scenarios on his blog, lots of this stuff is translated here on Serenes Forest, the thing is that in one of those posts he apparently said that each player has his own story and that the stories that he has on his head are just a few of these stories and are not to be treated as absolute truths (see the final line of this article: https://serenesforest.net/general/designers-notes/holy-war/playing-guide/), anyway idk if this specific scenario with Azelle was actually something that was really supposed to be on the game or if it's just one of those "not exactly canon" ideas, but in any case as far as I know, he was canonically supposed to have survived, whether it was this specific scenario where he turns into stone or not).

 

 Also- this is probably gonna sound like I'm scolding you but I'm really not (so I'm sorry if it sounds condenscending)- I don't think that having Sigurd die is a waste of time at all, it adds a lot to the story as it shows us more about how the war affects future generations (since now we have people like Seliph, Shannan, Oifrey, Julia, Julius, Leif, Altena, the kids of gen 1 characters, villains like Ishtar or Johan and Johalva, etc, being forced to learn how to deal with a war that is not theirs to fight because the people who started it are almost all dead, instead of having pacific lives) and we can genuinely feel the grief of losing these characters that are actually important to us instead of it being as it usually is (like when Ayra says "my dad and brother are dead" we feel bad FOR HER but we didn't actually care enough about her brother and dad for it to genuinely affect US; also we can genuinely feel the anger that the child unit characters must be feeling because we're forced to feel it too, when they tell us what happened to Arvis and Deirdre mother we find it sad and feel sorry for them but we don't feel that rage of having someone we like being robbed from US, it's way worse when you learn what happened to Tailtiu than hearing about Cigyun). I completely get it not liking to consume stories that don't give a happy ending to the good guys (each one of us should use escapism as we please, no judgement), specially when it looks like it's gonna have a happy ending but then it doesn't exactly do, but still the way they did it here is absolutely not a waste of time.

In any case, don't worry, that doesn't happen like that in other FE games, I mean, yeah we have deaths and sometimes some ragefully vague or sad character endings, but never the main characters, with maybe one exception (that ISN'T AS TRAGIC AS SIGURD'S FATE AT ALL and I'll spoiler tag, and maybe you'd rather wait and see if other people would think this would count before spoiling yourself) (the spoiler is from FE6 and FE7):

Spoiler

In FE6 we have Hector, one of the Lords of FE7, die in a sorta sad and ironic way. Since you're playing the games in order then you're not gonna be that sad as Hector is just the "plot device dad that dies in the beggining of the game" in FE6 (FE7 is the prequel to FE6, lots of people like to play it before FE6 too but in the end it's up to you, since you wanna avoid being sad then maybe play FE6 first). In FE7 you have to save the dude who will become the villain (and kill Hector) in FE6, and you can even have him and Hector talk in FE7 before saving him, so it's sorta sad/infuriating to know that you have to go throught one of the hardest chapters of the game only to save the little shit that will become the villain, cause a whole ass war and then kill Hector on the next (or rather, previous) game. Also in FE7 Hector is warned that if he wields the Armads he'll be fated to die in battle, not peacefully, which is exactly what happens in FE6.

 Somewhat less relevant but lots of the characters of FE7 will have tragic endings by FE6 (because when FE6 was released they weren't thinking of doing FE7, then FE7 came and to try to make as much connections to FE6 as possible, they added a bunch of "dead parents/siblings of charatcters that were only mentioned once" from FE6 as units in FE7 so their fates were already decided as tragic in FE6, so lots of the characters from FE7 have a sad epilogue or died/disappeared between the two games), but it's not devastating or anything, it's as if they made a prequel to FE4 now and you had characters like Ayra's brother, Cigyun and Arvis' dad as playable characters, you already knew that they are fated to die so it's less sad when it happens.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by ARMADS!!!

[Armchair General]

11 hours ago, fhc said:

All Fire Emblem games are Super Sad and Tragic like Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War ?

Usually, they aren't as bad Genealogy; but someone else will usually die in an unavoidable manner, except for Shadows of Valentia, if you're fast enough.

[FabioManoel1977]

Spoiler

it's pretty sad to know that the hero of FF7 will die in FF6, it's the same feeling as in FF4. I hate this "prequel" business, what's the point of playing a story that people already know the ending? and worse: A tragic ending. This is VERY discouraging... Maybe I skip play FF7, cannot see a point in to play it since the hero is doomed.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by fhc

[Armchair General]

Hey, at least Hector had an good run, and there was an effort to save him. But since it takes an few hours to actually cut your way through an army...

[FabioManoel1977]

Do you think that is wort play FE7 even knowing the destiny of the protagonist in FE6 ? At least He get a true happy end in FF7 ? He died old or young in FE6 ? I do not want to gave up about the challenger of to play every FE but FE4 but makes me really sad with what happened with Sigurd and I fell myself discouraged to suffer the same thing again... Sigurd died young and see his wife married with otehr man... Terrible tragedy...

Edited August 16, 2023 by fhc

[Armchair General]

Well, for one, their deaths are mainly there to point out that the world of FE occasionally has some assholes here and there and occasionally prevents the series from becoming an little bit too stagnant.

 

Personally, I love an bit of tragedy here and there. After all,you can't expect everything to go the heroes' way most of the time.

[ARMADS!!!]

FE7 has more than one hero (it has 3) so it's not really a "the hero dies" thing as he barely even shows up on FE6 anyway. FE6 happens 20 years after FE7 and Hector is 17 in FE7 (so around 37, in FE6) so there's a good time before it happens, and yes FE7 gives him a happy ending and it's absolutely worth it to play it

 

 Ironically the point of making a prequel to FE6 even knowing that so many characters had a "tragic" or incomplete/vague ending (and even knowing that the world of FE6 hadn't seen a war since a couple of thousands years, which means that there couldn't be any actual war on the game) was because Roy (the lord of FE6) appeared on Super Smash bros and the western fans started to wonder who the fuck he was (since no Fire Emblem had been released outside of japan yet) so they saw an opportunity to release FE on the west but wanted a lord that resembled Roy a lot, and since FE6's story was resolved I guess they didn't want to make a sequel to it, so they made a prequel and shoved Roy's dad (who shows up for a total of like 5 minutes in FE6) as the Lord of FE7, along with Lyn (who didn't even exist on FE6) and Hector, and a couple more of characters that were mentioned on FE6 (a bunch of them being the parents of characters from FE6) because the game had to appeal to japanese fans as well by having some actual connection to FE6 (and the actual characters from FE6 would mostly be toddlers so they opted for using a lot of parents, older brothers, etc since the actual cast from FE6 couldn't be there).

Of course, FE7 works very independently from FE6 (as you know, they never released FE6 outside of japan for some reason, even though they could've done it use Roy's popularity), just as FE6 works independently from FE7 (since there wasn't even any plan to make FE7 on first place), having him die in FE6 doesn't affect FE7's story in any way and his life in FE7 doesn't affect his fate in FE6 in any way too so that shouldn't stop you from playing two whole good games, don't worry about it.

 

4 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Personally, I love an bit of tragedy here and there. After all,you can't expect everything to go the heroes' way most of the time.

 Oh, I personally love some tragedy too (maybe a bit too much), specially when it's poetic, ironic or tragically beautiful in any other way (this probably sounds very corny but it is what it is)! I just got to FE4's chapter 5's ending less than a week ago and seeing it only made me want to keep following the story to see how that poetic and unfair tragedy was gonna be solved (still didn't get to the end I'm in chapter 7 or 8, watching the cutscenes on yt though as I can't play the game right now).

[Armchair General]

16 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said:

Oh, I personally love some tragedy too (maybe a bit too much), specially when it's poetic, ironic or tragically beautiful in any other way (this probably sounds very corny but it is what it is)! I just got to FE4's chapter 5's ending less than a week ago and seeing it only made me want to keep following the story to see how that poetic and unfair tragedy was gonna be solved (still didn't get to the end I'm in chapter 7 or 8, watching the cutscenes on yt though as I can't play the game right now).

Yeah, it's what kept me going through Conquest. Mainly to see the next episode of seeing the cast do the absolute minimum of "just following orders." Of course, the one time it actually happened outside of Iago's oversight or Garon's prodding was never brought up, again.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Armchair General

[FabioManoel1977]

I can't stand tragedy, I'm already wondering if it's really good for me to keep playing this series of games so full of tragedy. I like the gameplay, it's fun and challenging, but the tragedies bother me a lot. Many believe that tragedy is something for adults and a happy ending is something for children, but I think differently, I like happy end, I love to see it in games... I see it as a reward for our effort playing the game.

I appreciate all the comments and responses, this community is wonderful. Thank you very much everyone. I'm going to seriously start thinking about whether or not I should go through keep playing Fire Emblem games...

[Armchair General]

Well, the series is filled with secondary characters being killed off; usually under the pretense of an dramatic execution or an heroic last stand. In fact, it's kind of hard to find an JRPG that doesn't kill off one of your allies.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

39 minutes ago, fhc said:

I can't stand tragedy, I'm already wondering if it's really good for me to keep playing this series of games so full of tragedy. I like the gameplay, it's fun and challenging, but the tragedies bother me a lot. Many believe that tragedy is something for adults and a happy ending is something for children, but I think differently, I like happy end, I love to see it in games... I see it as a reward for our effort playing the game.

I appreciate all the comments and responses, this community is wonderful. Thank you very much everyone. I'm going to seriously start thinking about whether or not I should go through keep playing Fire Emblem games...

If it's not for you, then it's not for you. That is certainly understandable. I will say, as others have, that most of the games do lead into a "happy ending" of sorts. The "big bad" gets defeated, and life becomes good again, or even better than it was beforehand. But I think any story about war is going to involve loss and tragedy, and that's something we see in the series as well.

4 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

(so around 37, in FE6)

Damn, his portrait makes him look so much older. The beard adds 20 years.

[ARMADS!!!]

8 hours ago, fhc said:

I can't stand tragedy, I'm already wondering if it's really good for me to keep playing this series of games so full of tragedy. I like the gameplay, it's fun and challenging, but the tragedies bother me a lot. Many believe that tragedy is something for adults and a happy ending is something for children, but I think differently, I like happy end, I love to see it in games... I see it as a reward for our effort playing the game.

I appreciate all the comments and responses, this community is wonderful. Thank you very much everyone. I'm going to seriously start thinking about whether or not I should go through keep playing Fire Emblem games...

I don't think it's about being a thing for kids or adults either, there are some types of story I hope to see a happy ending for every main character as well (and would be kinda sad otherwise, most of the time) and there are types of story where I appreciate a good- or even a massive- tragedy (say, if they killed off Phoenix, Edgeworth or Maya in Ace Attorney I'd be pissed (though if it was a non main character I wouldn't mind) or someone from the main cast of Sonic, in the end it really depends on the mood of the story, if I was watching a "heart warming" type of anime like Given and they killed someone from the main cast I wouldn't like it at all not even from a "poetic" point of view, but now its hard to watch NANA and not expect massive- hardship and tragedy). In the end, Fire Emblem games DO have happy endings (I mean, you already played other FEs to know it, it's always on the same level, I think) but since it's a game about war it's hard to except that it'll be without a cost or that everyone will end up being intact, and if you come with this expectation then you're gonna be sad, it's like playing Ace Attorney and hoping that none of the characters that appeared on the case will be the culprit. So it could be easier if you approach the series with a different view (already expecting deaths) because otherwise it'll be hard to appreciate a game about war, if you really can't or don't want to do it then you might be sorta disapointed (as Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said, if it's not for you then it's not for you).

 Of course, again, idk how low is your tolerance for tragedy on Fire Emblem, but Fire Emblem games do have happy endings and we never had something like what happens on chapter 5 of FE4 in any other FE. As far as I know the level of tragedy you'll find on the other games are on par with the other FE's you played (not FE4).

 

8 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Damn, his portrait makes him look so much older. The beard adds 20 years.

 Yeah he does look older, tbf when FE6 came out Hector didn't have a canon age so maybe the original intention was not for him to look 37 on FE6 (Eliwood doesn't look like a 37 years old at all too, but at least with him we can justify it with him being sick), I mean look at Oifrey's (who is 34) and Finn's (even older) faces in gen 2 and tell me they're as old as Eliwood and Hector on FE6.

 

 

 

[FabioManoel1977]

6 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

Of course, again, idk how low is your tolerance for tragedy on Fire Emblem, but Fire Emblem games do have happy endings and we never had something like what happens on chapter 5 of FE4 in any other FE. As far as I know the level of tragedy you'll find on the other games are on par with the other FE's you played (not FE4).

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think that is ok then since the others games do not have a so high level of tragedy like what happened with Sigurd, thank you very much, I will try to keep playing the games them. Also I need to kill Arvis and revenge Sigurd, I cannot have peace of mind without do that. I hope Arvis have a painful death.

Edited August 17, 2023 by fhc

[ARMADS!!!]

11 minutes ago, fhc said:

I think that is ok then since the others games do not have a so high level of tragedy like what happened with Sigurd, thank you very much, I will try to keep playing the games them. Also I need to kill Arvis and revenge Sigurd, I cannot have peace of mind without do that. I hope Arvis have a painful death.

Oh, you're welcome! Hope you enjoy the games! 

Haha, so do I! I still haven't gotten to the part where we're supposed to kill him, but I'm very hopeful to see it too!

 

 

[Jotari]

Unfortunately not. Few games, or stories in general, have the balls to go as hard as Genealogy of the Holy War.

[AnonymousSpeed]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Unfortunately not. Few games, or stories in general, have the balls to go as hard as Genealogy of the Holy War.

For exactly one scene

[FabioManoel1977]

Something that annoys me is the fact that they reuse the same portrait of enemies several times, I hate Chagall boss from Chapter 2 and 3 and now in  Chapter 8 Muhammad they use exactly the same portrait... Also have That guy with closed eyes his portraits is exactly the same already see in 5 bosses... I think it would make more sense to use a generic portrait with a shadow hiding the face... Do not you think?

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, fhc said:

Something that annoys me is the fact that they reuse the same portrait of enemies several times, I hate Chagall boss from Chapter 2 and 3 and now in  Chapter 8 Muhammad they use exactly the same portrait... Also have That guy with closed eyes his portraits is exactly the same already see in 5 bosses... I think it would make more sense to use a generic portrait with a shadow hiding the face... Do not you think?

Reusing portraits was common in the early games. In some cases, it's one-to-one, while in others, slight modifications are made (usually a different palette). They may just not have had the time or resources to craft a unique one for every minor boss.

Your proposal is an interesting one, but might not work so well, if they want to show the boss character talking. One other possibility would be, make them wear a helmet, like the generic Soldiers in the GBA games. That way, they could look totally different underneath, we just wouldn't know. In any case, I would expect a remake to give all the "duplicates" unique portraits instead.