Kent, Sain or Lowen?

[Junkhead]

"Weapons that bolster offense" either make you lose AS (steel) or have like 1 or 2 throughout the course of the game (silver). Killers are another story, but they're rare if you're ranking.

A Steel Sword & a Silver Lance are no issue with an unpromoted Lowen due to his high CON.

[dondon151]

Sain has no problem either because he loses con by 1 but wins speed by 1.

[A2ZOMG]

Well, Kent might not even get fielded for the simple reason that he starts sucking after you start having Knight Crest issues.

Lowen has earlygame pwnage over the other two, and gets to tank stuff for counterattacking funtimes lategame, however Sain starts winning in offense massively mid-lategame to the point where he's helping noticeably with your efficiency too, and with B Serra, his durability is pretty respectable.

Kent on the other hand...he just doesn't stand out as much as the other two. He's alright. Decent but not quite as good earlygame as Lowen. And then also decent but not nearly as good as Sain lategame. He's only much better if he gets A Sain, but then that means not promoting either Lowen or Oswin, who are both amazing units in their own right since they're much more tanky and have more useful supports.

Edited June 20, 2009 by A2ZOMG

[dondon151]

He's only much better if he gets A Sain, but then that means not promoting either Lowen or Oswin, who are both amazing units in their own right since they're much more tanky and have more useful supports.

Oswin's move issues slow down the team and Lowen's supports are hands down inferior to Kent's. Kent can triangle with Sain and Fiora; Lowen has trouble getting an Eliwood support.

[Junkhead]

But he has Marcus, that's an easy support even for a ranked run, as in low turns.

[Swordsalmon]

Lowen's supports are also unreliable, while Sain is practically guaranteed to get Kent. And you can't really assign values to make defense and offense "equal" each other, especially since this game's enemies end up bad enough that Sain is very resilient as he is, and then his offense lead comes out on top. Lowen is better in the earlygame, however.

Except that Lowen's supports are faster and more reliable. Marcus A takes only 75 turns, and Eliwood B 71. Also, both characters want Lowen for the full Avoid and for Eliwood, Attack. Sain is likely to get just Kent A, taking 71 turns. Fiora, Serra, and Priscilla have better options and take 81 turns for B; starting later than Lowen's supports as well.

Lowen wins because durability>offense in FE7. ^_^

[Shadow Mir]

Except that Lowen's supports are faster and more reliable. Marcus A takes only 75 turns, and Eliwood B 71. Also, both characters want Lowen for the full Avoid and for Eliwood, Attack. Sain is likely to get just Kent A, taking 71 turns. Fiora, Serra, and Priscilla have better options and take 81 turns for B; starting later than Lowen's supports as well.

Lowen wins because durability>offense in FE7. ^_^

Never mind that Lowen's durablilty is overkill. Not to mention the move difference bertween Eli and Lowen until Eli promotes. And isn't FirexIce a fail pairing?

[Florete]

Except that Lowen's supports are faster and more reliable. Marcus A takes only 75 turns, and Eliwood B 71. Also, both characters want Lowen for the full Avoid and for Eliwood, Attack. Sain is likely to get just Kent A, taking 71 turns. Fiora, Serra, and Priscilla have better options and take 81 turns for B; starting later than Lowen's supports as well.

Marcus is probably best dropped later, because although he isn't downright terrible, he's not good either. The move difference and Eliwood eventually capping out make a LowenxEliwood a bit difficult to build. KentxSain (possibly Fiora as well) is nice because they share the same move. Priscilla's only really better option is Guy, maybe Erk, because her bonuses with Sain are rather good and they share move again. If she goes A Guy, that still leaves B open.

Lowen wins because durability>offense in FE7. ^_^

Eh? Since when? Once you get to ~ch. 19-20, even Lyn is fairly durable against the fail that is HHM enemies. Sain will plenty durable to hold his own in battle, so his superior offense will win out. I already admitted Lowen wins the early game.

[-Cynthia-]

I like Kent personally. He's easier to level up than Lowen (because he wtf pwns Lyn Mode), and has that nice Anima affinity.

[Mekkah]

tbh Lowen getting supports outside of Marcus is questionable realistically speaking. A movement difference between him and Eliwood is actually pretty important and huge, and Eliwood's lack of 1-range also makes him difficult to position next to Lowen often. Rebecca just sucks.

Kent's Anima affinity would be nice if his partners weren't all Wind. And Lyn/Fiora are iffy choices regardless, and have even more flexibility problems than Eliwood...yes, Fiora flies, but she dies when sneezed on.

[Spikey]

On average, Lowen just sucks. He has the worst skill, strength and speed of the three. Okay, he doesn't really need speed then, but what good is HP and DEF if he can't even hit anyone accurate enough, and even if does, does almost no damage? Never use him.

Kent is an okay-ish character, especially compared to Isadora and Marcus (cause boy, do they suck), but he has potential to become the suckiest unit in your army.

Sain is definately the one with the most potential; this is mainly because of his strength, and other stats that are okay-ish on average. His strength turns out 10 points higher than Kent's on average, and even more than 10 points higher when compared to Lowen. Yeah, his HP won't shine, but it's enough for a cavalier, his skill is as sucky as Isadora's, but not as sucky as Lowen's. He loses in DEF only to Lowen, his resistance is only somewhat lower than the others, his luck is almost as good as Isadora's (though not as good as Lowen's), and Kent and Isadora are only a littlebit speedier. Oh, and he supports with Rebecca. What more do you want. He has an annoying personality though, good reason to bench him if you're not interested in playing strategically.

[A2ZOMG]

Eh? Since when? Once you get to ~ch. 19-20, even Lyn is fairly durable against the fail that is HHM enemies. Sain will plenty durable to hold his own in battle, so his superior offense will win out. I already admitted Lowen wins the early game.

Chapter 20 is one of her hardest chapters to survive in imo.

There are a TON of lance wielding cavaliers and some nomads who have no trouble 2 hitting her, and her avoid is not reliable against those. The bosses do massive damage to her and might even onehit her. She doesn't have the HP to take hits from mages either.

In fact, she pretty much is always having durability issues as long as she doesn't get a lancereaver. Those are the most common weapon types in this game, and most of them have little trouble 2 hitting her (with lolsteel lances), and one of those hits goes away on the counter meaning she probably needs to be healed or rescued a lot. Another chapter that gives her massive trouble is the one where Pent and Louise join. Sooooooooo many Wyverns.

Edited June 21, 2009 by A2ZOMG

[Kiba]

Chapter 20 is one of her hardest chapters to survive in imo.

There are a TON of lance wielding cavaliers and some nomads who have no trouble 2 hitting her, and her avoid is not reliable against those. The bosses do massive damage to her and might even onehit her. She doesn't have the HP to take hits from mages either.

In fact, she pretty much is always having durability issues as long as she doesn't get a lancereaver. Those are the most common weapon types in this game, and most of them have little trouble 2 hitting her (with lolsteel lances), and one of those hits goes away on the counter meaning she probably needs to be healed or rescued a lot. Another chapter that gives her massive trouble is the one where Pent and Louise join. Sooooooooo many Wyverns.

how much do you train your lyn anyways? my lyn almost always doges everything and always doubles them instead

[Fei Mao]

I prefer Sain cause of his strength stats and ends up great.

Kent is okay average havent used him much though

Lowen has okay not really impressive in stats though just use him if you want a mobile tank in your run.

[deleted35362]

I've tried using all characters, as in getting them to level 20

twice. It turns out that Sain was the best.

[Just call me AL]

I don't care if Lowen is has high defense, Sain and Kent are definitely better than that guy. Even though earlygame Lowen is pretty good, as the game progresses, he loses steam. Also, the move difference between him (Lowen) and Eli makes it difficult to build, so I don't find it exactly reliable. (Honestly, I would find Eli more likely to have an A/B Hector and Lyn support triangle because the move differences aren't so wide between the lords, even though Eli/Lyn is slower than Eli/Hec, I would still find it reliable.)

[Prince Levin]

Sain easily, and a great addition to your army.

Kent is alright, a decent addition to your army.

Lowen is terrible, a waste of a slot.

I've used all three, how anyone can argue Lowen is beyond me...but then again I've never played the hard modes, so things may be different there.

[Just call me AL]

Sain easily, and a great addition to your army.

Kent is alright, a decent addition to your army.

Lowen is terrible, a waste of a slot.

I've used all three, how anyone can argue Lowen is beyond me...but then again I've never played the hard modes, so things may be different there.

Same here, his offensive capabilities only come from his affinity if you ask me. His defense is good, but he's not really what you're looking for if you're trying to complete chapters in the fewest amount of turns possible.

[A2ZOMG]

Nah, good defense comes before offense for completing chapters in this game.

The biggest issue in this game is the number of enemies, and you want to be able to damage as many as possible on the enemy phase. They have poor defenses, but they overall do respectable damage when they attack, but they're not as ridiculously powerful as FE6 enemies, so tanky characters can feasibly achieve taking very low amounts of damage from them so that counterattacking is a safe option.

Kent and Sain don't have good enough durability to take constant abuse. Stuff like Ranged Magic also tends to do very massive damage to them and leave them easily killed by another enemy unit. Lowen's better HP, defenses, and evade (from supports) matter significantly more in MOST situations.

Now Sain...he does get stuff like Wyverns and nonpromoted armors (who have very little hit on him), and he can onehit some wussy stuff, so he can keep up pretty well imo. Kent is basically an inferior Sain that doesn't have access to B Serra and who has trouble killing those Wyverns and Armors.

Keep in mind, Lowen wins earlygame by a significant margin too due to better base stats.

how much do you train your lyn anyways? my lyn almost always doges everything and always doubles them instead

You're probably getting really lucky. Take a level 15 Lyn (being generous here).

It takes an enemy unit with only 7 str to consistently 2HKO a 25.8 HP and 4.8 def Lyn with Steel Lance. Make that 10 str for an Iron Lance, and 11 for a Javelin. She is horribly fragile. So now you're going to tell me she has evade right? About 47 base evade. So take an enemy unit that has like I dunno 8 skl. The Steel Lance one has about 49ish hit on her, meaning it will hit her about half the time and has like a 25% chance of killing her in 2 rounds. The Iron Lance one has 59 hit. She's a bit better off from the Javelin one, but not much at 44 hit. These enemies usually come in groups, so when she kills off an enemy on the player phase, she has to be blocked off completely. If she kills an enemy on the enemy phase, that's worse since now there is a free space for another enemy to attack her.

Edited June 23, 2009 by A2ZOMG

[dondon151]

Kent and Sain don't have good enough durability to take constant abuse. Stuff like Ranged Magic also tends to do very massive damage to them and leave them easily killed by another enemy unit. Lowen's better HP, defenses, and evade (from supports) matter significantly more in MOST situations.

Stuff like ranged magic does very massive damage to Lowen as well. Lowen does not win evade from supports unless you somehow think his Eliwood support builds up in any reasonably fast time frame or if Marcus is being used past lategame.

Now Sain...he does get stuff like Wyverns and nonpromoted armors (who have very little hit on him), and he can onehit some wussy stuff, so he can keep up pretty well imo. Kent is basically an inferior Sain that doesn't have access to B Serra and who has trouble killing those Wyverns and Armors.

Why the hell would Sain want B Serra? He wants B Fiora because those bonuses come into play more often and form a triangle with Kent.

Keep in mind, Lowen wins earlygame by a significant margin too due to better base stats.

No, he wins earlygame because he's there.

Chapter 16:

8/0 Kent (Iron Lance): 25.95 HP, 15.8 atk, 10.15 AS, 6.75 def

8/0 Sain (Iron Lance): 24.6 HP, 17.2 atk, 8.8 AS, 7.4 def

8/0 Lowen (Iron Lance): 28.4 HP, 15.8 atk, 8.8 AS, 9.4 def

This is at Lowen's best. Note how at this point he basically takes Kent and Sain's inferior offensive stats. It only gets worse from here on out as the offensive gaps increase, but the player gradually begins to ignore Lowen's defensive leads because Kent and Sain become gods on a horse.

Edited June 23, 2009 by dondon151

[Kiba]

You're probably getting really lucky. Take a level 15 Lyn (being generous here).

It takes an enemy unit with only 7 str to consistently 2HKO a 25.8 HP and 4.8 def Lyn with Steel Lance. Make that 10 str for an Iron Lance, and 11 for a Javelin. She is horribly fragile. So now you're going to tell me she has evade right? About 47 base evade. So take an enemy unit that has like I dunno 8 skl. The Steel Lance one has about 49ish hit on her, meaning it will hit her about half the time and has like a 25% chance of killing her in 2 rounds. The Iron Lance one has 59 hit. She's a bit better off from the Javelin one, but not much at 44 hit. These enemies usually come in groups, so when she kills off an enemy on the player phase, she has to be blocked off completely. If she kills an enemy on the enemy phase, that's worse since now there is a free space for another enemy to attack her.

you do know that lyn has good critical chance and doubles them, I mean yeah sure at her lower levels she can't do much against armored units like knights and cavaliers but everything else she's good and usually takes more than just one unit to take her down

[dondon151]

you do know that lyn has good critical chance and doubles them,

85% of the cast doubles enemies and Lyn's crit doesn't have a class bonus so it's not anything special.

I mean yeah sure at her lower levels she can't do much against armored units like knights and cavaliers

Uh these are the units she's good against, axe users aside

but everything else she's good and usually takes more than just one unit to take her down

It takes two units to bring her down wow that's a giant improvement on one I'm sure Nino is envious

[Just call me AL]

Nah, good defense comes before offense for completing chapters in this game.

The biggest issue in this game is the number of enemies, and you want to be able to damage as many as possible on the enemy phase. They have poor defenses, but they overall do respectable damage when they attack, but they're not as ridiculously powerful as FE6 enemies, so tanky characters can feasibly achieve taking very low amounts of damage from them so that counterattacking is a safe option.

But what is good defense if the unit in question can't ORKO with a retaliation strike? That's basically what Lowen's problem is. He makes a good wall, but tanking isn't really his strong suit, not like Hector and Oswin who can actually tank. Good defense and great offense > unnessessarily high defense and crappy offense.

Kent and Sain don't have good enough durability to take constant abuse. Stuff like Ranged Magic also tends to do very massive damage to them and leave them easily killed by another enemy unit. Lowen's better HP, defenses, and evade (from supports) matter significantly more in MOST situations.

As noted by dondon, ranged magic hurts Lowen just as hard. And they're both durable enough to take constant abuse. So I don't think durability is an issue for them. And as noted before a lot of Lowen's supports are unreliable. Rebecca's good but she's an archer. Isadora and Harken join late. And Eli can't even reach him 90% of the time. And even though this is my opinion, despite happening later on, Lyn is better support option for Eli than Lowen is because of with her, that move difference is nonexistant. And they should still be able to give each other bonuses after their promotions.

Now Sain...he does get stuff like Wyverns and nonpromoted armors (who have very little hit on him), and he can onehit some wussy stuff, so he can keep up pretty well imo. Kent is basically an inferior Sain that doesn't have access to B Serra and who has trouble killing those Wyverns and Armors.

Again, as dondon mentioned, why the heck would Serra want a B with Sain? He easily wants a Fiora B because of similar movement. And assuming he has a support with Kent, and Kent has a support with Fiora, the three can form a support triangle with each other. Also not to mention Serra has healing duties. And due to support speed and said healing utilities, not a lot of her support options want her.

Keep in mind, Lowen wins earlygame by a significant margin too due to better base stats.

Like dondon said he wins earlygame because he's there during earlygame. As the game progresses, he loses steam, while Sain and Kent gain steam. And this means Lowen gets ditched Edited June 23, 2009 by Little Al

[Spikey]

Kent and Sain don't have good enough durability to take constant abuse. Stuff like Ranged Magic also tends to do very massive damage to them and leave them easily killed by another enemy unit. Lowen's better HP, defenses, and evade (from supports) matter significantly more in MOST situations.

So Lowen's horribly average 20/20 speed (19) entirely surpasses Kent's (26) because of supports? That can't be right. Not to mention that Lowen's HP is only 4 higher than Kent's on average, and Lyn-mode Kent's resistance is on par with Lowen's on average. No, Kent is definately more durable than Lowen, no matter how we twist or turn it.

I'm not a fan of either Kent or Sain, but the statistics speak for themselves.

Edited June 23, 2009 by Spikey

[_____]

So Lowen's horribly average 20/20 speed (19) entirely surpasses Kent's (26) because of supports? That can't be right. Not to mention that Lowen's HP is only 4 higher than Kent's on average, and Lyn-mode Kent's resistance is on par with Lowen's on average. No, Kent is definately more durable than Lowen, no matter how we twist or turn it.

I'm not a fan of either Kent or Sain, but the statistics speak for themselves.

Levels are probably only get around 20/5-10, so no. Also, speed has nothing to do with supports, so I don't know where you got that from. Lowen's 14-16 speed is enough to double nearly every enemy on the map, barring promoted stuff that isn't even common, so Kent's speed lead is a minor, at best. Also, way to ignore Lowen's 5 point defensive lead and overall higher avoid due to actually having support partners that give avoid. Kent's own affinity, Anima, isn't bad at all, but he wastes it on 2 units with Wind, which doesn't offer any avoid. Also, lolres.

So, let's see.

Lowen has...

Higher HP

Higher Defense

Slightly Higher Avoid

Kent has...

The same res as Lowen.

Oh, wow, Kent is so much more durable than Lowen. Also, Kent only wins offense when the battle units that Lowen doesn't double and Kent does, which would be... promoted enemies. If they both double, or neither double, they tie in offense. Oh, and let's not forget that Lowen's been helpful in the earlygame, too.

So, yeah, I don't see how Kent > Lowen at all.